Atheist & theist can't answer this question

>No one can know the absence of a creator, therefore atheists aren't a real thing

The burden of proof falls upon the people making the claim that a creator exists.

OP is a nigger

Let's continue it a bit further:

>God always existed
>Universe always existed
>All that exists is greater than universe
>All that exists is God
>Universe is part of God
>God is self-existent, infinite and eternal

Burden of proof falls upon whoever makes a definite metaphysical statement. Atheism is based on as voodoo axioms as theism.

I'll extend it:

>God's manifestation is everywhere in its universe
>Universal law dictates the known universe .
>God is infinite and does not fit in this finite universe.
>Nothing is random.

Krishna. Now will I open unto thee- whose heart
Rejects not- that last lore, deepest-concealed,
That farthest secret of My Heavens and Earths,
Which but to know shall set thee free from ills,-
A royal lore! a Kingly mystery!
Yea! for the soul such light as purgeth it
From every sin; a light of holiness
With inmost splendour shining; plain to see;
Easy to walk by, inexhaustible!

They that receive not this, failing in faith
To grasp the greater wisdom, reach not Me,
Destroyer of thy foes! They sink anew
Into the realm of Flesh, where all things change!

By Me the whole vast Universe of things
Is spread abroad;- by Me, the Unmanifest!
In Me are all existences contained;
Not I in them!
Yet they are not contained,
Those visible things! Receive and strive to embrace
The mystery majestical! My Being-
Creating all, sustaining all- still dwells
Outside of all!

See! as the shoreless airs
Move in the measureless space, but are not space,
[And space were space without the moving airs];
So all things are in Me, but are not I.

At closing of each Kalpa, Indian Prince!
All things which be back to My Being come:
At the beginning of each Kalpa, all
Issue new-born from Me.

By Energy
And help of Prakriti, my outer Self,
Again, and yet again, I make go forth
The realms of visible things- without their will-
All of them- by the power of Prakriti.

Yet these great makings, Prince! involve Me not
Enchain Me not ! I sit apart from them,
Other, and Higher, and Free; nowise attached!

Thus doth the stuff of worlds, moulded by Me,
Bring forth all that which is, moving or still,
Living or lifeless! Thus the worlds go on!

I'd sign that.

The minds untaught mistake Me, veiled in form;-
Naught see they of My secret Presence, nought
Of My hid Nature, ruling all which lives.
Vain hopes pursuing, vain deeds doing; fed
On vainest knowledge, senselessly they seek
An evil way, the way of brutes and fiends.
But My Mahatmas, those of noble soul
Who tread the path celestial, worship Me
With hearts unwandering,- knowing Me the Source,
Th' Eternal Source, of Life. Unendingly
They glorify Me; seek Me; keep their vows
Of reverence and love, with changeless faith
Adoring Me. Yea, and those too adore,
Who, offering sacrifice of wakened hearts,
Have sense of one pervading Spirit's stress,
One Force in every place, though manifold!
I am the Sacrifice! I am the Prayer!
I am the Funeral-Cake set for the dead!
I am the healing herb! I am the ghee,
The Mantra, and the flame, and that which burns!
I am- of all this boundless Universe-
The Father, Mother, Ancestor, and Guard!
The end of Learning! That which purifies
In lustral water! I am OM! I am
Rig-Veda, Sama-Veda, Yajur-Ved;
The Way, the Fosterer, the Lord, the Judge,
The Witness; the Abode, the Refuge-House,
The Friend, the Fountain and the Sea of Life
Which sends, and swallows up; Treasure of Worlds
And Treasure-Chamber! Seed and Seed-Sower,
Whence endless harvests spring! Sun's heat is mine;
Heaven's rain is mine to grant or to withhold;
Death am I, and Immortal Life I am,
Arjuna! SAT and ASAT, Visible Life,
And Life Invisible!
Yea! those who learn
The threefold Veds, who drink the Soma-wine,
Purge sins, pay sacrifice- from Me they earn
Passage to Swarga; where the meats divine

Of great gods feed them in high Indra's heaven.
Yet they, when that prodigious joy is o'er,
Paradise spent, and wage for merits given,
Come to the world of death and change once more.

They had their recompense! they stored their treasure,
Following the threefold Scripture and its writ;
Who seeketh such gaineth the fleeting pleasure
Of joy which comes and goes! I grant them it!

But to those blessed ones who worship Me,
Turning not otherwhere, with minds set fast,
I bring assurance of full bliss beyond.

Nay, and of hearts which follow other gods
In simple faith, their prayers arise to me,
O Kunti's Son! though they pray wrongfully;
For I am the Receiver and the Lord
Of every sacrifice, which these know not
Rightfully; so they fall to earth again!
Who follow gods go to their gods; who vow
Their souls to Pitris go to Pitris; minds
To evil Bhuts given o'er sink to the Bhuts;
And whoso loveth Me cometh to Me.
Whoso shall offer Me in faith and love
A leaf, a flower, a fruit, water poured forth,
That offering I accept, lovingly made
With pious will. Whate'er thou doest, Prince!
Eating or sacrificing, giving gifts,
Praying or fasting, let it all be done
For Me, as Mine. So shalt thou free thyself
From Karmabandh, the chain which holdeth men
To good and evil issue, so shalt come
Safe unto Me- when thou art quit of flesh-
By faith and abdication joined to Me!

I am alike for all! I know not hate,
I know not favour! What is made is Mine!
But them that worship Me with love, I love;
They are in Me, and I in them!

Nay, Prince!
If one of evil life turn in his thought
Straightly to Me, count him amidst the good;
He hath the high way chosen; he shall grow
Righteous ere long; he shall attain that peace
Which changes not. Thou Prince of India!
Be certain none can perish, trusting Me!
O Pritha's Son! whoso will turn to Me,
Though they be born from the very womb of Sin,
Woman or man; sprung of the Vaisya caste

>God created itself
No one says this. God is uncreated.

Or lowly disregarded Sudra,- all
Plant foot upon the highest path; how then
The holy Brahmans and My Royal Saints?
Ah! ye who into this ill world are come-
Fleeting and false- set your faith fast on Me!
Fix heart and thought on Me! Adore Me! Bring
Offerings to Me! Make Me prostrations! Make
Me your supremest joy! and, undivided,
Unto My rest your spirits shall be guided.

HERE ENDETH CHAPTER IX OF THE
BHAGAVAD-GITA,
Entitled "Rajavidyarajaguhyayog,"
Or "The Book of Religion by the Kingly Knowledge
and the Kingly Mystery."Years

youtube.com/watch?v=jxYbA1pt8LA
youtube.com/watch?v=xD2jKSW7yss

>Rajavidyarajaguhyayog,

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> 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999%

There is nothing more certain than the existence of God.

meant to quote

No atheist makes that claim nor any claim of knowledge.

Epic

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>Atheist: ”There is no god”
>Theist: ”How can you be so sure?”
>Atheist: ”There is no evidence”
With scholars working on this very issue for centuries, trying to dig up evidence for the existence of a god (to no avail), we can safely dismiss the question.

>God is uncreated.

I addressed this already in my first point.

If God is uncreated, then he exists by necessity, not will.

An uncreated God, did not have control over his own existence, he is not all-powerful. Even if God wanted to not exist, he must exist anyway, as a matter of fact, not choice.

If God did not have choice over his own existence, he is not all powerful, nor has he 100% free-will.

Look up Argument from ignorance

thats where you are wrong kiddo

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Theist answer: It's called supernatural for a reason... " beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature."

God always existed and never created himself. He was. That's why He names Himself as "I AM" among other reasons.

Atheistic answer: IDK some infinite time loop shit or aliens i guess, maybe simulation theory.

Stop being contrarian a pick a fucking side leaf

>we perceive and understand miniscule amount of the surrounding multidimensional existence
>its safe to say that anything we conclude about it is right

lol

You mean like the machine.

The universe didn't always exist. The Big Bang brought time and physical space into being around 13.8B years ago. The naturalist claim you're putting forward is extremely outdated.
Please do some research instead of none at all before posting.

unironically this

> The universe didn't always exist.

>The Big Bang brought time and physical space into being around 13.8B years ago

Pick one. Are you really that retarded?

The only true religion is agnosticism.... literally saying, "unless you have evidence....How the fuck should I know?"

>>agnostic pepe needs a hug...

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This just proves that Atheism isn't real. you demanding evidence only proves that you believe there is a God, but you don't want to acknowledge it. A true Atheist wouldn't fixate on whether he exists or not, you aren't an Atheist. You are Anti-Theist.

It's a futile argument since we'll never be able to know the truth. The universe always existing is just a rebuttal to the typical

>god created the universe
>who created god
>god always existed

All I know is that if you believe in a desert religion made up by some kike thousands of years ago you're a retard.

The Theist position isn't God created himself, but rather that God just is, he is uncreated and timeless, he always was and always will be.

God's timelessness exists in binary distinction with the created order that includes time.

just-is ...another way of saying exists out of necessity. It can't be any other way.

This undermines God's will, i.e. God did not have control over His own existence. He was forced to exist out of necessity.

I'm not really sure what you're trying to say, if you're arguing against some radical notion of God's will being independent of his own nature, then I can't really see what that has to do with my comment.

Maybe God is Sovereign, and maybe the reason why He doesn't will Himself to NOT "necessarily exist" (which He can if He so chose), is the same reason He doesn't will evil, it's just NOT in His nature to "not necessarily exist" or "will evil".

I don't agree with that. If you believe that God cannot exist, I would label that as an anti-theist. I'm an atheist for the simple reason that I don't believe there really is one, but the possibility remains open if future evidence is found. I've seen some people argue that agnosticism and atheism aren't mutually exclusive, which seems alright in my book, but calling myself an atheist is "le edgy" enough, agnostic atheist is just pushing it.

Nothing can be born of nothingness, nor can anything go to nothingness.
It is therefore possible that the universe has always and eternally been, and will always eternally be. Having no starting point (big bang being a rebirth rather than a starting point), nor an ending point, it is a cyclical birth and rebirth, being born of itself eternally.

Exodus 3:14:
And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

God did not create Himself, he always was, and always will be. There was no "before" and there will never be an "after". The same logic can be applied to the universe if you take the atheist stance, and to consider that all matter that ever was, always was, and will always be.
There is no explanation beyond this that cannot be given without considering that things can come from, and go unto, nothingness. We are an eternal cycle of being.

Dumbass OP can't even comprehend time as a physical dimension