This is the official far-left politics general. Come here to discuss socialism, communism, anarchism or even social democracy.
> What is socialism? Socialism is the idea that workers should be in control of their own labor. We believe that the capitalist profit motive naturally falls victim to contradictions. Instead production should be organized by the workers directly for use.
> What is socialism not? Socialism is not when the state is in control of everything, even though many socialists have identified the state as a sensible tool to use. Most radical socialist ideologies aim for the eventual abolition of the state in its entirety. Socialism is not the idea that everything should be free. Socialism is not the idea that everyone should be equal. Harder workers may deserve more compensation. We only believe people should be equal in access to the means of production. Socialism is not when you place the collective above the individual. Workers are expected to overthrow the present order because of their own material interests. Socialism is not radical liberalism. SJWism is an outgrowth of corporate liberalism and not of genuine radical politics.
> What is your relation to the socialism of the 20th century. While we recognize the tragic failings of previous socialist experiments, we also understand their successes. We believe we can improve on previous socialist projects by incorporating better guarantees of democratic liberties, and using the tools of the digital age for better economic planning. Material conditions are what determine the outcome of a socialist project, and socialist nations last century were not sufficiently developed to successfully transition into communism.
[This thread has been established by the people of /leftypol/ to further a prosperity of content in both our communities.]
billionaire socialists manipulate the minds of the workforce to take control of the resources. read george orwells animalfarm
Justin Garcia
George Orwell was a socialist though. And that's not what Animal Farm is about. It's about a good revolution being corrupted by the pigs of the party elite.
This has been troubling me. What are logical and solid reasons to not care about the human dignity of LGBTQ, minority, refugee, and feminist rights? Give me good reasons why you don't support egalitarian human rights of ALL human beings? What reason do you choose to selectively empathize when marginalized peoples are distinct individuals with emotions, feelings, and ethics too? I'm not suggesting to take refugees just because they are people in need, but if we have the ability to care for others and give everyone a better offering in life, why wouldn't we? I understand that appealing too much to empathy isn't good enough reason for a lot of logistical reasoning, but is basic dignity too much to ask? Does it really boil down to tribalism? (Why help them they aren't me?) Give me reasons so that I may better understand the right wing Jow Forums. I'm sure you all aren't hateful and some have good reasoning. Help me see the light anons
Ian Bailey
Everyone knows communist memes are shit. Fascism is the fucking meme ideology. Edgy as fuck.
Your ideology is the mainstream. Gets mainstream media coverage 24/7. Controls Hollywood. Controls liberal tech including. Facebook Twitter Instagram. Those are the platforms for POLITICALLY CORRECT SPEECH. That's all you have. You do not belong here. You are not politically incorrect.
Mods are hyper kikes for not getting rid of these threads.
Go back to twitter and jerk off to how easy it is to get praise for your normie trash.
Jack Hernandez
OP has left the building,either that or his trying to find his manifesto to read us some passages.
Austin Ortiz
You didn't build shit nerd. Maybe I'd work in a mine. Seems fun if you've got good safety precautions. But I'm not much of a manual laborer. Would probably end up a math teacher or something. That "ethnocentrism" is a conscious right-wing policy to prevent leftist economic consciousness. This is known historical fact. Bin Laden was literally trained by the US. We fix it by pointing out their real economic interests.
Joshua Brooks
Meme copy pasta. Leftists have no empathy just manipulative boners for minority voting blocks.
William Gutierrez
real capitalism hasn't been tried yet
Ryan Perez
There are no safety precutions in communism you dumb twit.Those are just for show And hate to brake it to you. I'm a former construction worker.
Christopher Evans
if i called out a leftist for this they would say im too cynical and broad brushstroking their beliefs though
Nathan Young
>math teacher... August
Ryan Diaz
Every nonwhite regime is de facto ethnocentric, even the leftist ones.
The neoliberal and woketard left also support and coddle nonwhite ethnocentrism, and they represent the majority of the left. When nonwhites outbreed whites in our own country, you "logical" Marxists (white male Marxists), won't have enough numbers or power to change the zeitgeist.
>billionaires who own media push communist propaganda really gets my noggin joggin
Ayden James
>kikes who own media push communist propaganda Ftfy
Brandon Roberts
You're confusing leftism with the Democratic party. It's because you're an ignorant American. You too.
What the fuck are you breaking to me? Your dumb fantasy of what communism is?
>Every nonwhite regime is de facto ethnocentric Every regime defends the interests of its own people you idiot. What do you expect? We want to see all nations of the world prosper.
Carson Turner
>tfw we're never going to wrestle power back from the neoliberal corporativists that control the western left The dream is over. We became the pawns of the capital.
Twitter, Google, Facebook, YouTube, Vimeo; etc. actively try to ban conservatives and nationalists, while letting communist and anti-white bluechecks do whatever they wish.
They even made up bullshit excuses to call Zionist clown Alex Jones a "Nazi", and got him banned from social media.
When the baby gets murdered by the doctor even after contractions have started...
When your 8 year old son is brainwashed into chopping his dick off instead of growing out of his troubled phase...
When your economy is wrecked by a thieving managerial socialist class...
When your nice country is flooded with foreigners for no reason...
When you're silenced or beaten or killed for speaking up about it...
You can blame Marxists for this. Their ideology condones this, and they have spread these plagues across the globe.
All reds get the rope. If you repent now you might not burn in Hell for all eternity. Choose wisely
Oliver Cox
>We want to see all nations of the world prosper.
Except your actions will just lead to whites being subjugated by mestizos, Arabs, and Africans.
Colton Foster
Read a book about what communism is instead of thinking it's about having half the corporate execs be women from minorities.
Connor Gomez
Discord trannys go home
Daniel Gray
>responds to post with totally different point uh, ok Also, >ITS NOT REAL GOMMUNISM we already know what it is
Wyatt Ward
I was born during the communist times. Please answer me this
Are you are you not willing to spend the rest of your life doing a job in a mine?
Yes or No? You can't sell ideas and fantasy in communism faggot.You work and you die.
Levi Sullivan
>fugg books, history, political theory, gapitalism worggs (except when there's a yuge financial crisis but the ebul state then bails the banks with taxpayers money and it's fine :--DDDDD) Top cuckold ideology.
Joseph Jones
What you're talking about are the ideas of liberal humanism, that there is universal value to human life and human potential, and that freedom and equality of opportunity are basically good things that any decent society will seek to establish. These are the basic assumptions underlying both the contemporary right and left wing, assumptions that are contrary to a lot of feudal, monarchist, classical ideologies. Even if I disagree completely with them, traditionalist reactionaries are much more consistent than fascist reactionaries in this regard, because fascism is a fundamentally modernist reaction to modernism whereas traditionalism understands that the social ideals they wish to cultivate mean a full rolling back of society.
So modern leftism and rightism are born from the contradictions of the enlightenment, philosophers like John Locke and Adam Smith. In the practical realization of their ideas there was immediately a contradiction -- free trade and human freedom were often in conflict, as in the case of the enclosure ot the commons and slavery and a little later especially with mass industrialization. But the basic premise of Marxism is that these contradictions are productive; their resolution is the force that pushes history along. So just as the capitalist revolutions of the enlightenment dethroned feudalism with freedom of trade for the general benefit of humanity, Marxism operates under the assumption that socialist revolutions should dethrone capitalism with freedom of labor to similar ends -- the flourishing of humanity in general, to liberate all the potential Shakespeare's and Newton's from twelve hour days, seven day weeks in sweatshops or working two jobs to make rent and having no time to cultivate yourself as a human.
Anarcho-communism is even less feasible than Stalinist communism, because it can't run large-scale economies effectively.
For example, some iron mine union tribe only mines enough iron to sell for their immediate interests, then slacks off for several weeks of the year. Meanwhile, an steel smelting union doesn't receive enough iron to run their business at a profit, and thus becomes impoverished.
There's also the fact that a patchwork of anarchist trade union tribes is vulnerable to attack and subversion by a traditional united nation-state. I suspect that if the West dissolves into anarchy, due to the left's action sometime in the near future; then China, Russia, etc. would simply gobble-up our carcasses and turn us into de facto satellite vassals, similar to North Korea and Belarus.
Ayden Carter
Majority of Power you dumb fuck
Jeremiah James
I notice you're projecting this outward, to some ambiguous "we". The smallest part of the group is, of course, the individual. If you were to ask whether each us believes whether we should help the people who we know in whatever way we're capable, many would say yes. Some even make efforts to do so. Voluntarily. There are tangible examples of this sort of behavior: letting your friend stay at your house when they're out of work, giving someone a ride if their car isn't working, pooling money to pay for someone's unexpected large expense, etc. These are personal decisions, and they're on a scale at which we can more easily specify the issue, the possible solutions, and many of the potential unintended consequences *accurately*. Once this scale begins to encompass an entire diverse country, or even an international community it becomes increasingly more likely that the issues, solutions, potential consequences will become more abstract. Basically, it becomes an exercise in theory rather than praxis because there are so many disparate factors involved and at that scale, if a mistake is made in theory it could have catastrophic consequences for an entire country or world when put into praxis.
Ian Lewis
Yeah, I lived in socialism and no thanks.
It failed and will necessarily fail in every form it has been tried.
Creeping socialism is exactly what's the problem right now.
As Orwell said: People don't bring upon dictatorship in order to secure a revolution, people bring upon revolution in order to secure dictatorship.
Dominic Baker
These pathological ramblings are my favorite part of right-wing rhetoric. >When the baby gets murdered by the doctor even after contractions have started... >When your 8 year old son is brainwashed into chopping his dick off instead of growing out of his troubled phase...
I'd actually put a break on migration right now, and apply our forces of production to radically improve living conditions in their own countries. We'll suffer economically for a short while, but will end up with much better relations between our people in the long run.
We don't want to just bring back 20th century socialism. That's where you're misunderstanding us.
Orwell was a socialist.
Chase Gutierrez
>if you don't love communism, you love unchecked capitalism congrats on being a zika baby tier brainlet
Tyler Ward
That was done under the threat of death. Don't think for a second that you will be some big shot in a true communist regime.
You will be just a fag that will work in a mine or a shoving coal at a furnace.
Jaxson Clark
>Majority of Power
What? What do you think will happen when Caliphate-supporting Muslims gain control of the UK and France's nukes?
Do you realize that South Africa's old white government had to dismantle their nukes before the communist niggers took over?
Christopher James
end state communism doesn't tolerate faggots sorry OP
Ian Gray
Indeed he was. Nobody is perfect.
Jayden Davis
>Play both main sources of social instability for the common good VS >Have a bunch of bottom-feeders determine how much you deserve based on how good a slave you are Kill yourself Schlomo. Marx never even had a fucking job.
We don't want to bring back 19th century collectivism.And they did. plz stfu.
Bentley Miller
>subhuman doesn't bother to refute anything Oy vey
Evan Sanders
>Orwell was a socialist I wish your country had a Pinochet
Isaiah Ortiz
>I'd actually put a break on migration right now,
Congratulations, you represent like 5% or less of the left. Also, how would you enforce immigration laws without a powerful state, and without all of your fellow leftists calling you a "fascist"?
And don't get me wrong. It's not a polite "no thanks" either. It's an "I'd rather go out killing socialists than live in socialism again" "no thanks".
You think you can "improve" upon it, but you can't improve something that is fundamentally wrong like socialism OR state capitalism.
Christopher Rivera
Orwell was more like a SocDem, and he had social conservative beliefs. He also insulted several leftists for being fags, lol.
Ryder James
>> What is socialism? >Socialism is the idea that workers should be in control of their own labor. We believe that the capitalist profit motive naturally falls victim to contradictions. Instead production should be organized by the workers directly for use. Imagine being so brainwashed and retarded you actually believe this tripe. The creators of Socialism had a very different definition for it.
David Garcia
Capitalism CANNOT be checked. It's basic game theory, if I'm a billionaire I'll do anything in my power to push my personal interests, it's game theory. I'd behave exactly the same as any billionaire or entrepreneur if I were them, and in EVERY SINGLE CAPITALIST COUNTRY you see the wealthy pulling the strings of parlementary politics, they own the media and so on. Pic related : french media ownership, the circled number is the ranked position of the owners among top french fortunes. Only a handful of billionaires control the vast majority of the press.
>Only a handful of jews control the vast majority of the press. You're so close, but so far
Juan Green
>thinking you can check capitalism If they hadn't bailed out those banks the system would have collapsed. Capitalism is inherently contradictory. Socialism is the only way out.
Why are you quoting him in opposition to socialism then? It's obvious that that quote doesn't work in that context.
Do you realize that Bakunin was a communist himself?
By ensuring massive economic development in the third world. Letting in endless refugees is a fake left-wing policy. Of course we should let in people in genuine danger, but economic migrants will always be people who already had the money to make the journey. The real suckers are still suffering back in their home country.
The quote is true. His overall politics don't change a thing about that. His criticism of the left was on point.
Aiden Harris
Zzzz.
Logan Reyes
This is such a shitty, bad faith argument since the entire point is to alleviate the exploitative quality of labor in a capitalist society. I have worked in contracting and landscaping since I was 13, a good 14 years now. I admit fully and hate that a lot of so-called socialists are really petit-bourgeois red liberals, especially in the first world, but that's because genuine radical movements among laborers have been hunted down and stamped out. I dont want to be some fucking beauracrat, I especially dont want to have to fight in a war and watch my friends die and have to kill people, I just want me and my family and community to be able to work under reasonable conditions, have food, housing, and healthcare provided, and not have to worry about parasitic landlords and the whims of the market for whether or not our basic needs are provided for.
White people have realized no other races plan on giving up their in group preference so now the only option is to fight or have everything stolen from us and our children raped out of existence.
I hope you have fun participating in genocide for social credit.
Lincoln Rivera
>By ensuring massive economic development in the third world.
So by making whites work extra hard and give more of their profit to 3rd-world niggers as gibs?
Nathan Hughes
>Socialism is the only way out. DUDE FREE MONEY LMAO
Andrew Lewis
Market exchange and property existed way before the state.
Aaron Russell
>There are no poor billionaires. Thank you for that profound revelation
omg you guys i saw this beautiful, brave trans woman of color trying to cross the street yesterday. there was a mud puddle in the gutter though, so i stopped my car in the middle of rush hour traffic and threw myself into the mud puddle so xe could walk all over me instead of having to ruin xer designer heels. but in all the commotion - people honking and screaming mostly racist and homophobic slurs and 6 inch heels puncturing my internal organs - i totally forgot to suck xer dick. am i going to lefty hell?
Ethan Russell
>Communism and Socialism? Communism comes by the sword. Socialism comes by vote. the end result is the same though. The differences in textbook definitions are just semantics
Jackson Gonzalez
Well 5/5 because I didn't even realize this was a meme question. >current year >believing even for a second that a lefty would come here with a well-thought-out question
Matthew Young
"Globalism" doesn't exist. Nobody wants the chinese workers to be in direct competition with french workers. Nobody wants mass immigration, but imperialism turning countries into shitholes/slave reserves does that. Capitalism needs immigration to keep the wages down. Leftists don't want the populations of all countries to merge you know, they'd rather have everyone stay at home and have good reasons to stay there and contribute to their respective countries.
Ryder Lee
>Socialism is the idea that workers should be in control of their own labor. that's like meat suit soldiers controlling their offence
this is how retarded you are
Ayden Foster
communism is shit here is why my grandparents loved it , but not for the reasons you might think . a communist society was made out of three types 1.party members 2.smart lower class 3.dumb lower class i dont know much about the party members , though i know that they werent being punished for minor crimes (my grandpa was a cop) but the lower class is where the interesting shit is. i will use my grandparents both from my mother's and my father's side . they both had same opportunities and equal wage , both worked crappy jobs , yet their financial difference was huge grandparent's from my mother's side were into dark shit , meaning that they were part of the huge mechanism that was black market , about 50 percent of shit that was stored in their house was either bought from black market or was bought with money which they got from black market . using corruption they have managed to get a flat , 2 houses on the country side and the newest cars . meanwhile father's parents werent capitalizing from the systems flaws and all they had was a flat and a car which was given by the state . so basically there was a shadow capitalism in the most anti-capitalist country . people loved because they had an easy access to this and no one could stop it , cops werent giving a single shit about it ,you could bribe them with meat or sausages . that was the reason why USSR economy went to shit now only the chosen ones get to be corrupted in short people loved communism not because of the system but because of how shit it was
Angel Myers
Of course I know about Bakunin, I would otherwise hardly use quotes from him. Why you would call him a communist when he was an anarchist is beyond me though.
So if its not globalist socialism then its national socialism. Checkmate nazi. We agree.
Aaron Evans
extreme brainletism
The only true generally accepted definition is that communism is more far reaching and "complete" than socialism. The exact answer depends entirely on the particular socialist ideology and often the individual, but it ultimately isn't a very meaningful distinction. The distinction between social-democracy and revolutionary socialism is a much more meaningful one. Sorry to not give a sufficiently straightforward answer but unfortunately there isnt one.
Adrian Wilson
>Leftists don't want the populations of all countries to merge you know, Hmm >leftists in USA importing shit skins as fast as possible >leftists in Europe importing shit skins as fast as possible yep checks out
Everyone knows leftists want everyone to be transgender women wearing burqa and have the state tax everything at 100% to pay for gender reassignment surgery for babies while being funded by george soros, obviously. I've read a lot of leftist theory, like the archipelago of the gulag, the black book of communism, ive listened to dozens of jordan peterson talks, read atlas shrugged and contributed to hundreds of Jow Forums threads so you can tell i'm pretty much an advanced political theorist.
Justin Brown
This failfart farted, failed and died. Rather apt that he’s posted in this thread.
