Why didnt Hitler take moscow?

Initially it looked like Moscow would fall by October 1941

>According to German assessments of the initial Soviet defeat, 673,000 soldiers had been captured by the Wehrmacht in both the Vyazma and Bryansk pockets,[37] although recent research suggests a lower—but still enormous—figure of 514,000 prisoners, reducing Soviet strength by 41%.[38] Personnel losses of 499,001 (permanent as well as temporary) were calculated by the Soviet command.

Read up on the October days. Things were on a razors edge. The Commy party command evacuated, people were thinking the Wehrmacht would break through by the 20th or so.

The the early onset of winter and bad whether slowed the advance due to mud and vehicle problems. When the ground had frozen solid my 15 November and the Wehrmacht was able to effectively move again, the Soviets had received close to 1 million reinforcements from the East and started “shock attacks” that were pretty much suicide runs but slowed down the Wehrmacht further until December when the winter brought things to a halt for good.

P.S. 1941-1942 was the coldest winter in the 20th century, which also helped.

>the Soviets had received close to 1 million reinforcements from the East and started “shock attacks” that were pretty much suicide runs but slowed down the Wehrmacht further until December when the winter brought things to a halt for good.
You think the Empire of Japan would of said.

You know what, Their flank is unguarded.

Useless japs didn‘t even have proper tanks.

>The the early onset of winter and bad whether slowed the advance due to mud and vehicle problems.
This, the mud was what did the Germans in. Good luck moving an army through this when most of your supply chain relies on fucking draft animals. The size of the front didn't help either.

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Because the Georgian Oil fields were more important.
If I am not mistaken, Moscow was the heart of the Russia railroad infrastructure. If the Germans had taken Moscow most of the other railroads would not have been able to communicate and military mobility in the USSR would have been crippled.

The silly Japs felt threatened by the Soviets, not the other way round, they signed a non aggression pact with them and went after that weak little pacific nation, the USA instead. Possibly the worst ally in history.

Moscow wouldve turned into Stalingrad 2.0.
Hitler didnt even want to invade st. petersburg because he would take devestating losses from all the russians hiding everywhere.

Also Moscow was not as important as you might think, as all their industry had been moved further back. Taking it would perhaps be a moral blow but thats pretty much it.

>Shit phone poster
>sage in all fields

If Hitler had at least one company of Germans touch the streets Stalin would've executed Zhukov.

The Russians would have went up the urals and never came down. It’s as if you retards don’t know anything at all about geopolitics

>P.S. 1941-1942 was the coldest winter in the 20th century, which also helped.
When God himself wants Krauts to lose.

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Supply lines to our fronts were not optimal and the weather was a dick

the idea that the russians would have kept fighting no matter what is extrapolation of what happened, but it is not a given.

Moscow and Leningrad were big symbolic targets that were threatened in the winter of 1941, but didn't fell. If they did, what would be the result ?

-maybe some not very loyal ethnicities in the Caucasus or Central asia start to rebel

- maybe the power of Stalin is undermined in the soviet power structure, a coup etc..

- maybe the Japanese change their mind and attack USSR instead of the US

Moscow was also a big supply hub. Losing it at that time would cause trouble to the soviets. Also millions of refugees on the road in winter.

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What difference would it have made?
It would just be a second Stalingrad

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There's only so much you can ask from men.

ffs I was gonna post that

why didn't the Russians resist like that in WW1 ?

He diverted energy South towards Kiev and other targets.

Remember Hitler didn't believe taking cities was the main priority, he believed in destroying armies in the field and then marching into cities. It worked well against France, the Germans destroyed the French military and then took Paris uncontensted.

they needed stalingrad for oil from the Caucasus. Moscow was a secondary target.

The fucking cold my dude. The germans ran out of resources and their gear wasn't enough for the harsh winter. Just like Napoleons army actually

youtube.com/watch?v=wu3p7dxrhl8

this video is interesting to visualize how barbarossa unfolded

Because Hitler was a moron and didnt understand AG south had decent opposition so he turned the tank armies on Moscow axis onto Kiev. By the time they returned winter was coming.

tldr. Hitler was autistic and hated border gore.

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>Winter work only against Germans, Russian's have cold resist +++

Wow, that's what i call retard

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The saliants in the south needed to be destroyed, look the video I posted

>can't use Russian rail system because it's incompatible with germans
>can't build infrastructures like Americans

result
>can't resupply & reinforce fast enough
>btfo

As said by the other anons already, the German army had slowed advance due to harsh weather and infantry reinforcements at Moscow. There are also reports where squads of German soldiers became disorganized and would get wiped out after trying to push forwards to earn glory as being the first ones to reach Moscow and the famous palace.

The cold in 1941 cracked tank engine blocks and the Russians mounted counter-offensives in the blizzards when the Germans were struggling to survive. This can be blamed on the Wehrmacht stalling its offensive with incidents like the Minsk pocket and what happened at Kiev. Moreover, Tula repelled the attack against it and then even aided Moscow from the south. 1941 was the coldest winter of the century, and the Russians were used to the cold. On top of that, once the snow had settled and thawed, the Russians deployed reinforcements: spies reported that the Japanese had not made any equipment for advancing into the Russian Far East, which freed up over a million trained and fed men for redeployment. All the POWs the Germans captured in their surprise attack amounted to nothing, and in 1942, the Red Army was still as strong if not stronger than in 1940.

The Wehrmacht never had a chance, lend lease or not. Whether 10 or 11 Russians were to die to stop a single Wehrmacht tank mattered not after Germans decided to waste time genociding civilians and imprisoning Russian anti-communists along the way. Had the Germans treated the conquered land with civility, they might even have been able to recruit _loyal_ men and women. But they did not make it a nazi vs commie war, they made it a war of narcissist Germans versus a beleaguered Russian people that refused to give up its right to live.

To make this more succinct: the Wehrmacht was defeated by its politics

I don't know from which historian are you quoting this from but the German army could not afford to recruit thousands of Russian soldiers when they were already lacking supplies and weaponry. That's the main reason why they laid siege of Leningrad because they could not feed the number of civilians in that city.

The "Ivan the primitive" narrative is common in Western historical circles.
e.g.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzer_Battles

>2 years
>when there was no Tsar to begin with
>forced out when a new dynasty was elected
>an entire army disappear without a trace
Don't fall for the Polish memes. Even other Slavs consider Poles to be subhumans

Because Hitler had a boner for taking places named after his enemies like leningrad and stalingrad. Also the winter

In WW2, the russians would've surrendered if they lost Moscow.

The Germans seized some of the most fertile land on the planet. They seized that part in the early leg of the war when the Red Army was in disarray over the surprise attack. There were massive amounts of land and great numbers of work-capable peasants with no loyalty to communism, and the Germans managed to turn this into partisan guerrilla turf. The Germans could have won the war simply by not pointing their guns at the conquered civilians and instead memeing "liberation from communism" instead of "acquiring lebensraum".

Moscow was a stupid push plan, what he should have is take the fucking Stalingrad, pull the lines back from Moscow and dig in

Cowardly Finns. Duplicitous traitorous bastards.

I read this in a Russian accent. Topkek.
>winter elves use cold resist potion
>aka vodka

Can you imagine what the battle of Moscow would have actually been like? And for what? So you can say you have their capital? Too bad the Russians just moved their gov 1000km East, you just lost a million dudes and equipment for nothing. Stalingrad was the right choice, the oil of the Caucasus was so vital that had Germany and the USSR not gone to war the brits and french were going to bomb the oil fields form Syria to stop that oil going to Germany. With Stalingrad captured, the Germans would have had a good defensive line along the Volga to defend their new oil supply.

I think the real question is why declare war on the Soviets? The UK was alone, surely mainland Europe could have strong armed the UK in a protracted war.

>alcohol dilates veins in extremities
>actually lose heat faster
At least frostbite doesn't settle in before death

Overly ambitious. They should have used the newly conquered people to supply them with food and extra man power. Had they dug in and kept what they took and rode out the Winter the Japanese may have started attacking the Russians and put the Russians in a no win spot. Germany got greedy and it cost them.

Forgot pic most related

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Lack of trust to give weapons to recently captured POW's? How many good German officers even knew Russian at that time? Would you allow a formation of 500K Russian army which consists of people that you just fought and potentially killed their loved ones? There are a lot of minor but vital issues.

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They wefe never supposed to win. Hitler unkmowingly was doimg the Jews bidding. Thats why they funded his rise. They needed a boodeyman. Thats how they were able to give us this world we had today.

> That feeling when you realize Hitler was a puppet of the jews

T. (What is the Havaara agreement)

They didn't have to necessarily had them fight against other Russians - even though anti-communists initially even tried joining the Germans of their own initiative, before they realized the Germans had anti-Russian in addition to anti-Communist tendencies. Instead of using the civilians and POWs for labor, they committed some atrocities here and there, word spread... The Germans were being idiots.

You think Russians were happy to have Communism? Of course not. Everything changed when the West went out of its way to prove that they are worse.

My sides, brother, you hurt them

Taking Moscow wouldn't have changed absolutely nothing

Didn’t read any previous comments.
What is Russian Winter for 6 grill.

Hitler's commanding officer in WWI wrote in his papers that he is "unfit to lead", which forever extinguished hopes for a promotion, and a hospital psychiatrist found him to be a psychopath. Perfect puppet

He lnew he would need them later to save the Whites if he failed.

You two are example of the perfect goys.
Yes , obviously you fucking morons, the high-finance (jews and capitalist goys) finance both sides of wars, every time.
Does that mean both sides are puppets? Obviously not.

The last WWII redpill is realizing that Hitler's attack of Russia was an act of desperation, but also a defense of Europe. Stalin had amassed a force very close to the border that was far too large to be only for conquering Germany. Stalin was amassing tanks that could cross water (Germans never had those tanks), and a lot of people forget that Russians, not Germans, invented the Blitzkrieg, and used it first against the Japanese.

In short, Stalin would've swept across all of Europe and with his tanks, unlike Germany, he would've crossed the channel and taken Britain. Hitler literally saved the people who were trying to destroy him. You have to give some portion of his motivation to desperation, since it was also his only chance at winning, but the end result of his preemptive attack crippling a lot of Stalin's blitz forces and tanks is that the Reds could not advance beyond Germany.

Cause Slavs were actually superior to Germanics

Well it was basically Zukhovs defense strategy, that started with a ton of small trenches from the outskirts of the city all the way into the Kremlin and every time the germans penetrated a tiny bit the russians would fall back to the trench behind theirs (reinforcing it), the germans would secure the trench but lose some men, by the time they were trying to get into the 6th line of defense it was almost impossible for the germans to pull it due to all the casualties they suffered

>Hitler actually tried to free Europe from a dictator!!
Lmao this is some high level denial, very impressive

Being unaware does not pardon you of the crime. Hitler was still peak puppet, even if he honestly believed he was advancing the interests of the "aryan race"
>by getting it pummeled to the ground and raped by penal battalions and Texas cowboys

Ukrainian nationalists could have possibly organized Croatia-tier puppet state under Nazi control.
The issue, however, was that nationalists hurried up with it, that Ukraine would be a 40 million huge state (too huge for puppet) and lastly, Nazis decided to extort that land instead of making it an ally. Which makes sense given that they lacked resources more than manpower and manufacturing ability.
Same to a lesser extent applies to Belarus and Russia, just that they had no ready to go opposition like Ukrainian nationalists.

>amassing a force close to the border
Wait, so you are saying people are not allowed to occupy their own borders, especially when there's heavy military movement on the other side?

>far too large
Russia can't have a big army to overwhelm any attacker if Russia is that big that it can afford it?

>invented the Blitzkrieg
Russians invented combined arms doctrine and evolved it into Deep Operations, while the Germans memed it into the Blitzkrieg. The Japanese had highly advanced armor doctrine in use against the Chinese as well. So what?

>river-crossing tanks are the big scary
Wut?

>Stalin would cross the Channel
He couldn't even attack Hokkaido

I don't want none of your coke or LSD or what you're having, shit isn't giving you a high, it's making you retarded

Certainly partisan activities would not have been a problem if the Germans didn't make populations disappear. I can attest that at my section of the front, the Germans started losing trains in large numbers only after they responded to Soviet-inserted guerrillas by razing our villages.

Because hitler was ein untermehsch.

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>being unaware
That's a strong presumption there mate He sure knew where some of the money came from. He was managing it for fuck sake lol.
>he is a puppet because he lost
Strong logic

The Germans never made it to Moscow in any big numbers.
Some scout detachments supposedly made it within binocular distance like you said, but the whole german army was already worn out, exhausted and low on supplies, vehicles and ammo after months of fighting the Russians.

They literally couldn't even attempt to take it the army was incapable of carrying out an offensive at that stage.

>technological advantage
Lmao, no they didn't. Most german tanks at the time were garbage and germans relied mainly on horses to draw their artillery and transport their troops.

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> Ich was not an untermensch, das was a poor climate that made me lose.
Fuck gravity!, amerite.

In all honesty, they kinda didn't matter. In 1941-1942 they were not intense enough and after that Nazis lost anyway, with partisans only hastening the process.

This said, in case of USSR defeat they could indeed use manpower from Soviets by making puppet states and using their men for armies. After all, it would still take a huge war in Asia and Africa to defeat Anglos.

>2 million people in the army group "center"
>The Germans never made it to Moscow in any big numbers.
let's welcome the king of retards

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Stalins amassed forces is a load of buerocratic crap.

There was only military on paper. Commies stole stuff from Russians with excuse that they would make a global revolution. But instead of building anything they just sold it outright to capitalists. Trough 30s they even prefered to sell it to comrade socialist Hitler.

In the first week of war the whole tank armies and artillery batallions where lost, never to appear again with "oops, it sank in the swamp"-tier excuses. There should be the whole fucking chink terracotta army of tanks in every swamp across the eastern europe, if the amassed army actually existed.

>irrelevant breakaway colony
This is our natural condition. It makes me lough when someone starts talking about confrontation of Russia and America. Jeez Louise, russian oligarchs put all the money they have to the West and they are not gonna bomb their villas, their partners, their families who live in west world etc etc etc

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> postmongol shithole we made is perfectly fine here
Fuck off, commie.

Don't get me wrong I love my country but all this propaganda makes me sick.

t. Mongol

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Ah, Russia

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Hitler didn't need Moscow. He needed oil.

I'm fucking sick of this retarded meme by fucking retarded armchair historians.
>Durr why didn't he take Moscow lmao Hitler so stupeed why not he just listen tew his generals???
Moscow wasn't vitally important to the war effort, this isn't a fucking paradox game you armchair historian brainlet. Sure, Moscow had a railway network that spread throughout Russia but if the Nazis took Russia the political body could just move the political body literally anywhere else

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The German's did go back on the attack and did roll up Communist armies in the Spring. The Soviet Southern Front completely collapsed in Spring of 1942, and didn't come under control until around October at Stalingrad.

Read my post again mongoloid

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolesław_I's_intervention_in_the_Kievan_succession_crisis

After early Polish victories (Battle of Klushino), which culminated in Polish forces entering Moscow in 1610, Sigismund's son, Prince Władysław of Poland, was briefly elected tsar. However, soon afterwards, Sigismund decided to seize the Russian throne for himself. This alienated the pro-Polish supporters among the boyars, who could accept the moderate Władysław, but not the pro-Catholic and anti-Eastern Orthodox Sigismund. Subsequently, the pro-Polish Russian faction disappeared, and the war resumed in 1611, with the Poles being ousted from Moscow in 1612 but capturing the important city of Smolensk (see Siege of Smolensk (1609–1611)). However, due to internal troubles in both the Commonwealth and Russia, little military action occurred between 1612 and 1617, when Sigismund made one final and failed attempt to conquer Russia. The war finally ended in 1618 with the Truce of Deulino, which granted the Commonwealth certain territorial concessions, but not control over Russia, which thus emerged from the war with its independence preserved.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish–Muscovite_War_(1605–1618)

That would be Volgograd or Stalingrad at the time. It was the choke point for oil.

Rail logistics and preventing food from reaching inner Russia were probably the important parts.