Why is everybody saying that you need to vote?

Ok user.
You seem to think voting is just like voting for a president. Its not.
Its even more than voting for congress and governor.
Its votint specific laws in to being.
Here in california we legalized pot because we voted for the specific law.
Thing is your vote does matter especially in swing states that changes elections.
1 vote means nothing but 1+ means everything. It adds up, plus as americans this is what we fought for, if you want control over your life you better vote. Like california a vote is a drop in the bucket, but what if everyone who were blue just didnt vote because of the mindset their vote doesnt count?
This is why the black vote is very important because added up they tip the scales on who wins the comming election.

Or I'm pragmatic and realize that there is an extremely low chance of my vote having an effect on the outcome, so I consider my better spent doing something else.

My time better spent doing something else*

> 1 doesn't matter but +1 matters

1 is equal to +1.

So, you think that the current system doesn't give you the adequate means to communicate your will to the government?

i dont know i just vote for the left because i like women and apparently men are bad so i try to vote for women so im less bad

>equal
1 + 1 + 1 + 1
It all adds up. You maybe a grain of sand in the process, but so is every other grain of sand.

Why should my will be imposed on the government? I'm not an expert in any of the things on the ballot and I don't personally know any of the candidates so I don't know why I should be expected to trust one of them over the other.

My personal vote won't make any other people vote so this logic is flawed.
And even if it did make more people vote, it would only add up if we all voted for the same people. You can consider my non vote as sharing with everybody else who does vote and letting their votes be ever so slightly more important.

The importance of voting in a democracy is a measure of accuracy.
Look at the output of the votes in your area.
Lets say it was 70% vote for A and 30% vote for B with a 80% turnup rate.
Then no, your vote probably would not have mattered if you would have voted for B.
But let's assume everyone in that area voted and the remaining people would have voted B, B would have won.
Tweak these numbers just a tiny bit in your favor and you suddenly have a huge reason to vote.
A lot of places, the vote is a lot closer than 70-30, so being able to tip the scale of power in one direction or the other is huge.

But lets assume your vote doesn't change the outcome at all.
Having your vote in the mix means politicians can more accurately see how the people think and feel about what they do.
Let's say we only asked one person what they thought. Would he accurately represent your point of view? What about 10 people? Having as many people heard as possible will always make the system more accurate. Why shouldn't your voice be heard? Let's say only 30% votes B and you don't get your way. Wouldn't it be better to be part of that 30% so they are accurately represented?

user, are you aware what the social contract is?

>My personal vote won't make any other people vote so this logic is flawed.
No one said it would. Just saying your vote is a grain of sand amongst other grains of sand.
The only time your vote means more than others is what state you are currently in compaired to my state.

I'm not sure how it's relevant. Does it trump mathematics?

This

Also I think you shouldn't vote if you are not interested in politics.

I'm not asking you to go out and vote here, I'm asking you to consider what the implications of the act of voting or not voting are.
The way you are thinking of this matter right now is practically just looking for justification to abstain from the whole process because you don't consider your role in it valuable.
You can stay home and not vote just the same as you did before, but understanding the implications changes the whole dynamic. Maybe it will cause you want to find a way to understand what's going on in the political sphere a bit better.

Once you own a home and have some profitable investments you'll see the importance in it. Right now youre just trying to rationalize your laziness. In other words, just wait until you grow up.

It's usually liberals telling you to go out and vote. You see it on Facebook, social media apps, TV shows, from stupid celebrities, and your dumbest friends. Liberals in general have no respect for your own agency, and they want to control you, making you behave as they think you should. A conservative, if they are trying to influence you to vote, will more likely say, "Here's how I'm voting and why" and then leave it up to you to decided.

Personally, I find it very annoying when others attempt to control me, so I vote conservatively to spite them.

Voting is completely useless and gives the masses an illusion that they're in control.
Everyone pushes you to vote because engaging in this fake, rotten process is tacit consent to the current dysfunctional system.

>user still thinks he can sway the election
>user still thinks his chosen party will actually help him financially
>user honestly believes owning property equals maturity
>user really thinks the reason is laziness and not tied to a deeper more significant philosophy

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Again these are all ways for you to justify your own laziness. What do you do? How will you try to change the world? Right now you do nothing and think you're better than anyone else because of it. But really you're just going to cry until you die, not participating and yet wondering why this world doesn't suit your needs.

>changing the world
>by participating and validating the current system

Nice try cuck.

Grow up and realize that the system works. It just doesnt support your extreme views, which are immature. That's the purpose of mass representation.

And again, what will you do? You're still crying like a child. Get involved and try to lobby for a new system. Or will you opt for force? If you're so discontent with the current system, you always have the option to stage an armed revolt. Do something. Don't just sit here and call people cucks, you don't look smart or profound. You just look like a pussy.

T. Cuckold

doesnt matter trump is set in office voting means nothing.

It works just not how you're thinking it does. I work, I pay taxes and give back to my community. So your laziness mantra is out. I don't trust this system. I don't agree with the limited partisan control and I firmly stand by that the government beyond infrastructure has no real concern for its people. I also believe that the power invested into the government is now too big to fail and acts as a self perpetuating entity onto itself. Seats matter. Voices matter. Just not ours.

Giving back to your community is very similar to participating in national voting systems, you just don't have as much power nationally because the pool is larger. Where do you draw the line between mattering and not mattering? Whose voice matters? Congressional senators or reps? Sure, but you vote those people in. The government seems like it has no concern for its people as far as its people have no concern for the government. If fewer people are politically active, of course theyre going to walk all over you. The government isn't a seperate entity from the people, the government -is- people, just people who can be corrupted by profit or power. You need to become active to show these people that youre one of many voices willing to hold them accountable. The ones holding the current system in place are just uneducated people who don't realize the power their voice has when joined with many in the same bold new cause.

Hello Burgers, please vote red.

Your Democratic Party is compromised by tumblr-esque SJWism

I don't like that Orange Lunatic, but I'll take it over destruction of our entire civilization.

What happens in your nation later happens to the rest of the West.

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It is this sick indoctrination into the corrupted system that enables it to exist as it does in the first place. Like the notion of boycotting. Voting is a zero sum game. Less people coming to vote does not affect the percentages and basing things on probable outcome if they had voted is pointless. If people choose not to vote that is just as valid a stance as voting. If hypothetically no one voted at all the government would be forced to listen but we all know that isn't ever possible. Besides everyone wants something different which is what makes America so wonderful in the first place.

Because that's what you have to do when you live in a democracy. Remember, non-voters are the biggest political party, if they showed up close races would no longer be a thing. Lots of candidates are dead ties and many more are elected by only 10 votes. Maybe you don't care, but i guarantee someone close to you WILL be effected by the issues, so vote on their behalf. Now go out there and vote, or you are endorsing the status quo.

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it is rigged. governments never give people power. they just want you to think so.

I'm telling you you can change it. If you believe your views are so profound its time to start educating those around you to joining your cause. Governments are societal entities. It takes a group to influence society, not individuals (contrary to how much celebrity we give certain players). You need to create a group of people and start a movement. The majority actually doesnt vote for reasons youve voiced yourself. What happens if you galvanize those people? You could reshape government, because you'll show that youre willing to give power to those who support your views. Or put yourself in power to represent your people. If not, then don't post threads on advice just to whine about it.

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The importance of the vote does not change your miniscule chance of affecting the outcome. In fact by the time I have a house, it's likely that more people will be voting so it'll be even less likely

If the most significant way you can change the world is by casting a meaningless number that nobody will even know about, since it won't change the outcome, that's pretty pathetic man. I think an ordinary person probably could change the world significantly if it was something they worked very hard at. So instead of actually dedicating your life to change the world you're doing what is roughly the equivalent of praying. That seems lazy to me.

You arent reading. You need to start a movement and create a group of likeminded individuals who all support your common cause. That's how change is made. A critical trait of stable government is to resist senseless change at the whims of a minority, you need to create a majority by educating the masses. What do you think would happen if every single person had the power to change the system with their individual vote? It would be complete chaos. You need to educate people if you don't see a political party or ballot measure you identify with.

That's the paradox of representative government, every voice has power, yet only collectively. It's critical to understand that in order to fulfill your individual potential in the modern (assumed american) political system. Like I said, if you feel underrepresented then there's more to your issue than voting, you need to create a cause and draw others to you. You obviously want goverment to operate a certain way. Maybe others do too?

This is so naive it borders on adorable.

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^to add to this for . I simply vote because I find representatives and ballot measure that I for the most point identify with. So I cast my vote in order to make my support heard as a number, which contrary to what you believe -does- contribute to the chance that that person is able to represent my interests in government, or that that ballot measure is instituted and the law is changed.

It's only naive until you think of how drastic a change to the political system OP is probably asking for. This is how a change would need to be made.

I'm not egotistical enough to think that my opinions should be implemented as policy that tells other people how to live

>Frogposter doesn't understand the importance of voting
Typical. May as well spit right on all of your ancestors Graves. Literally worse than a terrorist.

Then you'll be forever dissastisfied. Don't you believe in yourself and your own opinions? At least find others who do, and get organized together to vote a certain way. Leadership requires ego. It doesn't matter how "crazy" your views are, I believe you have the right to spread them. The key issue is whether or not anyone else identifies with you, that's whats required for change.

Because it's your last shred of perceived freedom. The man who doesn't vote is a man who has been broken and surrendered his freedom completely.

> Don't you believe in yourself and your own opinions

In a couple small areas where I'm an expert and something is easily verifiable as true. Otherwise no, that's why it's called an opinion and not a fact.

my percieved freedom is only limited by violent force of police and/or anybody. as long as i can evade their attention im absolutely free. There is just so much energy that can be put in law enforcement that if you try control hard your country will go to shit like north korea, if you catch only 1% of illegal activity then law and voting dont matter. And any prosperous country catch less than 1% of illegal activity(not talking just murders or smth but all laws including jay walking and what not). basically countries self regulate freedom by if they desire be rich or not, voting has nothing to do with it and nobodies vote matters.

>opinions

A large number of laws are opinions. The political system is a means of instituting opinions as law. Consensus is reached through debate, and eventually, voting.

I haven't debated anybody on the things I'd be voting on, so therefore it would be inappropriate to vote, no?

If your views are already on the ballot there's no need! You've already been represented. All you need to do is vote to make your voice heard. If the majority shares your views (generally speaking, in the case of electoral colleges) then action will be taken that reflects your view.

But I don't have the belief that just because I have an opinion my opinion must be correct. That seems really arrogant to me.

It isn't. You're just using the system as intended.

I also don't vote OP. My reasons are none of the candidates seem appealing, and I do not like the fact that if one side wins, the other side is just completely ignored. I want to move to the Netherlands when I'm older, and both of these issues go away there. For now I'm here disappointing all my friends and family for some weird reason. I honestly really hate politically active people so so so much and don't want to associate myself with them.

Dutchfag here. The amount of people either feeling underrepresented or like the parties they elect can't realise their views due to skewed voting, multiple ruling parties and/or the amount of parties available is pretty high here. Especially the last years, where conversative right-wing ideology has essentially reigned supreme despite left-wing and pragmatic parties being in the same ruling set of parties. Government scrapping study funds, lowering social funds, upping taxes without scaling at least slightly based off personal wealth, not embracing nuclear energy despite it being essential in benefitting our environment.. Sure, might be better than an annoying orange, but it's no democrat's dream.

Can we start a global uprising against this all already?

My opinion is that your statement is just another opinion and might be flawed

You really should vote because you may think that just your single vote won’t matter, but if everyone thinks like that, the amount of people who aren’t voting will build up. If you vote then people around you will be more inclined to vote.

If I become a programmer is everybody else going to do the same thing?

But because I vote, my opinion could dictate your way of life.

>he doesn't use voting as an excuse to get out of work while also virtue signalling to women about civic duty, thereby increasing his SMV
>instead he tips his fedora and acts better than everyone else

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I like how if the majority of the country doesn't vote that is not considered a national opinion of the state of the union.

This.
>you need to create a majority by educating the masses.
You mean by indoctrinating them. Among the major mechanisms of power in modern society, there is both the means and the incentive to shape the electorate to suit one's goals. It's an exclusive club, true power, and I'd wager nobody on this site is in it.

It's important to note that "perceived" freedom isn't actually freedom (and freedom as an abstract ideal, without qualifiers, is neutral anyway or even harmful). The best way to control a man is to make him think he's getting what he wants when you win.

Eh, no individual raindrop thinks itself responsible for the flood. If you can't see this from the proper perspective, you might not be able to as a point of fact.

Sit and think how many people think like you and how, if they all voted for one party, they could add up.

Yeah the USA is fucked I guess I can't talk. Up here we have tales of what voter apathy does. But in America nothing is real and everything's an advertisement for sex, make-up, cars, guns or food.

Unfortunately, the problem isn't confined to the US. Leaving aside the inherent problems with notions of "democracy", the US is ground zero for all these damaging trends--hardly limited to consumerism. Every country in our sphere of influence is affected, and the government tries its hardest to expand that range.

I like the flood analogy but I don't see it applying here as much as you'd think. The flood (which I am assuming means grand sweeping changes for better or worse) is carried by not the drops but the pull from outside forces. Otherwise water sits. These forces are what those who choose not to vote are weary against. I am a rain drop, like my buddy rain drop next to me. He chooses to fall and join the others. He hopes to land in one place but it is out of his control. I choose not to drop. To not join the flood. I have not affected the overall impact one way or the other. The path of least resistance down on the ground is pulling these droplets of water in an unstoppable collision course they can not forsee one way or the other. If I decide to rain down with the others, I am told the best that can happen is not bitch of the flood takes us someplace we hoped not to go. How do you control the flood if you're just a rain drop? You can't. That course is set in motion by inertia and past influences on the ground. How do you stop a flood? Don't rain.

You're not there to control the system, you're there to participate in a system that functions to accurately express and execute the will of society. The system is more accurate if more people cast their vote and express their will. All you're doing if you don't vote is giving government an inaccurate depiction of the people's will. That's how bad policy decisions are made. So even if you don't vote, you're doing harm.

Saying "you're just one person" doesn't change this, you aren't one person right now. You're a member of a non-voting group, a collective of people that this thread is trying to persuade into action. You're actually representative of a massive force that holds immesurable power.

if i make a decision does that make it more likely everybody else will make the same decision?

probably not, yet people use this argument to try to convince people to vote all the time