There is NO system that can sustain giving money for good standards of living to non contributing adults for 20 years or more (on average).
The idea of using ANYTHING but your own savings to retiree is a ridiculous, snake oil, the state CAN'T handle the burden of PAYING for the living of EVERYONE once they hit retirement age.
Just look at how stupid this is. You need more money to pay for people pensions? - Well lets raise taxes... Wait no, that increases cost of living and we will need to give out more money. - Then lets increase the amount of taxes collected by getting more people... Wait no, you need to give out more money again. - Lets just print more money goyim... Wait, you serious now?
We could go on and on, NO SCENARIO is EVER favourable for pensions, the only solution is to force people to either save their own money or form families capable of sustaining em when they are old (which would also force people to have good relations with their families as it is their only hope for retirement).
Lets also remember the migration crisis we face actually worldwide is a DIRECT consequence of the pensions system failing.
The ultimate redpill boys, eliminate the pensions.
>Chile >something something pensions Yo, I get the refrence
Dominic Nguyen
Pensions, social security, women’s suffrage, all this extra rights and protection actually destroy the family unit and siphons life force to the jew. Tfw they really are psychic vampires.
>The idea of using ANYTHING but your own savings to retiree is a ridiculous That too is ridiculous since if there are no people doing the work, your savings are worthless. It's the same pyramid scheme as regular pensions.
Nicholas Clark
It's actually pretty easy to save for your own retirement, along with work pension schemes, I'm 25 and can already *-survive-* on what I've built up come 65 and I earn sub 20k. I don't understand why there is any state pension at all (and often it's not really alot anyway).
Brody Adams
t. Shill
There are several systems, but virtually all involve a mandatory tax to your income.
Angel Hill
Pensions come from worker contributions, and, at least here, are paid out based on how much you've contributed. It doesn't come from taxes.
Aaron Powell
yeah like 1 dollar per check lmao
this
Zachary Robinson
Jeez, here some morons that fell to the pensions trick.
If you save, 1$ per month, for 40 years, that's 12 x 40 = $480 that you have. Now SEVERAL systems exist, but most involve STATE money to bump this to something that lets you live, lets say... 100$-400$ more, depending on the system. this gives you... 580$-980$ a month. On the low end, it's not liveable, on the high end, it's a huge taxpayer money cost.
Other systems tax also your employer.
There is no pension system that could give you liveable money from your personal contributions alone unless you were on the top 10% which means you probably don't even need a pension system.
And lets not go into investment funds, rofl, that's top tier jewery.
Noah Long
Any kind of income that is not directly related to your work output is a mistake
Kevin Long
thats not how pensions work idiot
Sebastian Cruz
Ok brainlet, tell me how the magical extra money appears then, if it's not from the state or from "investments that can grow your money 1000%", you are officially a fag.
Hint: You are a fag
Logan Rogers
wrong, there is a system and it is called family.
Blake Rogers
Imagine paying taxes your entire life, just so that when the moment comes when you need something back, some neet says you cant have it.
Mason Wright
Social security reduced old people poverty by like 30% before you use to just see old fuckers dying in the street. Could you imagine old boomers just dying in the street?
Alexander Thompson
> Below replacement rate > Family Nice joke memeflag.
Logan Robinson
it's worker contributions retard.
e.g union journeymen pay part, few dollars a monthor whatever, of their paycheck into a pension fund. retired and eligible members of the union collect from this fund. when the working class retires a new working class pays the pension. the only downside is the economy must be growing or else a need for new workers decreases and the pension fund can't sustain itself.
Social security is the biggest scam of them all. It would be a lot easier if the money you got jewed out of every paycheck would just go to an account under your name instead of this “pool” of money, and you were allowed to take money out of it only after you reach a certain age. If only there was something like that out there...
Ethan Rodriguez
it isn't a mandatory tax. nobody's forcing you to join a union you retard. obviously things in your thirdworld shithole are different than here so maybe you should just stop posting
Daniel Lewis
That's literally how US pensions work. The system was designed to create a fund for each person, and then pay out your full account, plus an additional amount on top of that. Originally, this bonus was taken out of corporate taxes. Twenty years later there wasn't enough funding to siphon off of the corporate taxes to give out the promised bonus to everyone, so they started siphoning pension funds from someone else down the line. Fifty years after that there is no money left in anyone's account at all and the pension system takes money from both corporate and private taxes month to month in order to pay pensioners. We are now thirty years past that point, and all 'money' payed out to pensioners comes from derivatives accounts that the US government sells to banks promising them the entire value of current laborers in return for pension payments.
the part is it's suppose to go into a big fund and then interest rates would make it lucrative. but congress keeps "borrowing" money from it and dried it all up. it makes sense on an economic level. more money = better returns
Dominic Morris
>right to work relevance?
Joseph Jenkins
you mean SS? pensions aren't SS
Julian Martin
So tell me... where is your pension if you do not join the pension system?
God you are so stupid hahahaha.
Brody Bell
you don't fucking have one obviously stupid nigger
Colton Bailey
>statistics show whites below replacement rate therefore every white family cannot self sustain what an utter brainlett you are
>Please let corporations dump their old age employees off on society like used rags even though it used to be common fucking curtosey not to >(((((((((((YOU))))))))))
Zachary Gomez
Doesn’t the math add up exactly the same though? If you’re saving $1000/yr with 10% interest for yourself, it’s the same thing than saving $1000/yr x 1000 people with 10% interest, then dividing the money 1000 ways
Andrew Carter
So, if you want a pension, you and someone else HAVE TO give money to the system. And if that money aint enough you... have to loan the money for investments that MIGHT or MIGHT NOT increase the money.
Jesus fuck you are so stupid hahahaha.
> Literally ignored the original post point that answers to this stupid logic of bringing in people from outside the system. Typical memeflag.
we need a system where the generation takes care of its own, not the next for the old. there is all the money in the world among boomers.
and it should just be minimum. they dont need to compete for eproduction etc. why should they really need excess? want to go on vacations? go local. nothing wron with that.
these fucking boomers are shameless.
Gabriel Wood
>please have the government take care of my every single need in life because I’m too fucking stoooopid to open a savings account, invest in mutual fnds, or even stuff money under my mattress for my retirement
Ian Hill
maybe, i could be wrong but i thought compound interest works better the more you have. anyway, your own savings would require more taken out per paycheck to match what a general fund would.
yes, if you want something you have to opt-in to it. things aren't given to you for free you socialist faggot
lmao no. name one state
Nolan Bennett
You wanna hear a good joke? Most secure investments funds rely on things that are assumed to grow eternally (housing cough cough) or... goverment infrastructure which is paid with EVERYONE TAXES
hahahahahha you are so fucking stupid you have no idea how pensions work and you came here to shill hahahahhaha
>Most secure investments funds rely on things that are assumed to grow eternally (housing cough cough) yeah 2008 called, you're a moron.
last time i bother arguing with a third-worlder ffs.
Luke Wilson
Right-to-Work States As of 2018, 27 states have adopted right-to-work laws. They are:
Alabama Arizona Arkansas Florida Georgia Idaho Indiana Iowa Kansas Kentucky Louisiana Michigan Mississippi Nebraska Nevada North Carolina North Dakota Oklahoma South Carolina South Dakota Tennessee Texas Utah Virginia West Virginia Wisconsin Wyoming
Dylan Jackson
So you pretty much agree pensions can't be sustained, and do not work.
What are you here for? Besides shilling for the jews that benefit from the loans of taxed money.
Pensions don't have to be from the government only you fucking downie Steel mills and every fucking office job used to dole them out as part of the package, now it's a race to the bottom because they figured out people are stuck in the recession mindset and can fuck them over by promising nothing except a HDHP and 2% yearly raise to keep up with inflation.
Chase Reed
>So you pretty much agree pensions can't be sustained, and do not work. thats been the opposite of my claim. as long as the economy is growing, pensions are actually profitable based off worker contributions alone
Bentley Gonzalez
Other way around, it’s easier to google and paste the list of right to work states than to manually type every state that doesn’t have right-to-work.
James Sullivan
> Pensions are profitable > Literally can't give numbers because it'd show they are not unless there's and endless pyramidal growth. Literally a jew trying to defend his easy money funds rofl.
You get 0/10 for also ignoring the pensions systems of everyone else in the world, especially the european ones that rely heavily on state money and are completely broken rofl.
What a faggot, you should literally kys right now.
Justin Davis
You don't have to pay union fees in non-RTW states. What union-busting shop told you that nonsense? Or did you mean you have to pay union fees if you are in a union in a non-RTW state, in which case I ask: Why is that a bad thing? Someone has to pay for the overhead cost.
Give numbers to what? I don't have access to pension fund data. I'm not a shareholder or any board member. It's simple logic: Excess labor force + interest = pay retirees.
Not my fault if simply logic is too hard for you to grasp.
Oliver Rodriguez
It’s the exact same faggotry. Money is put into a pension fund which has to be aubsidized by this putting money into the fund, which then has to be subsidized by those after them. You’re still depending on mommy to hold your hand through life. Just get rid of SS and pension funds and shove that money into mutual funds with a solid track record
Liam Gonzalez
fun fact, pensions were originaly just a sort of "allowance" that kings or local elites used to give to foreign diplomats to cover their living costs, most were even paid back by the foreign country down the road, it was a simple matter of practicality due to the problems of exchanging currency in previous times. Go study how pensions eventualy became "for everyone". Hint hint, it had to do with christians and jews wanting equality.
Robert Mitchell
There's access to the average pension given out to people, does it live up to the promise?
You really think u can't talk about pensions to someone that lives in the country that ran the experiment for the most reliable pension system in the world?
It's the most economically sustainable system, it's still shit. Deluded jew rofl.
How do you call a state mandated reduction of your income to sustain someone else retirement? Cough cough, a tax.
You are pathetic dude, you'v got more posts than me trying to defend your ignorance rofl hahahahahhaha.
>There's access to the average pension given out to people, does it live up to the promise? THAT DOES NOT EXIST IN MY COUNTRY YOU STUPID ASS SPIC
How many fucking times do I have to tell you this? Just because your socialist hellhole can't into pensions doesn't mean it works that way here.
The closest thing we have is Social Security which would work fine if congress would've stopped borrowing from it and not paying back. It worked fine for decades and was a big part of bouncing back from the great depression.
Yes, you have to pay union dues if your workplace is unionized and they require it through a CBA. If it isn't, you don't. Still don't get your argument. Don't wanna pay union dues? Don't work in a unionized workplace.
Caleb Turner
> I literally don't know if it's working because I can't see the data of the results. But trust me goyim it's profitable.
>Boomer coworker >Earned federal pension >Could retire at any point with a state pension >Will get $3k/mo social security due to some deal Reagan cut to get feds to retire >Makes 80k/yr currently >Owns two homes >Does ~7 hours of actual work in a 40 hour week >Boss points out 5 hours of that work is duplicated by someone else, and not part of his job description >Bitches about younger people who wish boomers would finally retire. "I was here first!" >Bitches that his federal pension was cut and social security is on the chopping block >Refuses to make connection between boomers refusing to retire, his bleak pension/SS outlook, and younger people stuck in entry level jobs providing no taxes to fund his retirements >Always cries about being poor and hard working, cried about being unable to afford $150/mo car payment >Millennial coworker joked that he probably had a scrooge mcduck money bin somewhere >Boomer accused millennial making half as much with no pension/ss prospects of being rich if he can afford $150/mo. >Boomer gets extremely defensive when millennial points out his pay and pensions and asks what he does with all his money. >Boomer refuses to accept that he will have to give anything up that "he earned", refuses to grasp that he paid in less than younger generations who must to cover him, says he'll riot in the streets if they take anything >Boomer is discussing this with me, looking for reassurance. "Millennials are even more leftist than us, they wouldn't get rid of social security right?" >"You don't understand how far left they are," I tell him. "It's not that they're against social security, it's that they're going to vote to take your shit."
Samuel Harris
SS has been going on since the 30s retard. It obviously was working fine before congress stole money from it but ignore decades of evidence to feel better about your shithole of a country.
Joseph Sullivan
>if congress would've stopped borrowing from it >trusting others won’t spend your money frivolously >being this naive Again, you can just pump the same amount of money into mutual funds and end up with a way better result. Only an idiot trust the government to take care of your every need. As far as having to pay union dues simply because of the career path you chose is completely asinine. Next you’ll say obamacare was the best thing since sliced bread
Nicholas Brown
You know people have access to your money if you it into mutual funds, as well, moron? The same shit you're complaining about could be done.
Camden Jackson
And for the longest time it was an utter failure. Never trust the government with your money. Get rid of SS and just educate people on investing that money elsewhere
Joseph Gonzalez
>As far as having to pay union dues simply because of the career path you chose is completely asinine Again, that's bullshit you've made up.
Ryder Morgan
>what is commission Yeah, but it’s in the interest of investors and financial advisors for my money to grow
Jace Miller
> Doesn't understand the concept of losing money slowly so it looks like you can pay for it just fine until you can't anymore.
HAAAAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
You HAVE TO BE sub 80 IQ, there is no other explanation for you thinking your answers are solid.
Chase Collins
What a fucking brainlet. You obviously don't have the faintest idea how things work, but run your mouth anyway. The eternal fucking Millennial.
Isaac Evans
Well if you're arguing the government pensions are retarded than I agree. But pensions in general aren't. A lot of private pensions basically put your money into mutual funds for you, so you don't have to pay an investor or bother dealing with it yourself. They have the same self-interest as you do for it be lucrative since they draw from the same pension fund. SS is archaic because we're more educated than we were in the 30s.
>argument is reduced to HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAA
not an argument
Ryan Parker
Yeah, because (((Wall Street))) has NEVER fucked anybody over, with absolute impunity, for (((their))) own self-enrichment, right??
Angel Murphy
Listen you are kinda sad so let me help you
You have 100 dollars, you generate lets say... 3 dollars each year, so you decide you have enough money to get a power consumer, because reasons, and it will be free initially but it will consume 4$ of power each year.
1- First year, you end up with 100 + 3 - 4 = 99 Everything was paid. 2- Repeat 100 times. Now you have 0 3- Keep repeating Now you need to get money from somewhere else or face debt.
So you "fix it" by adding people that will consume 2 and add 3 until they are old and get their own power consumer.... repeat... repeat... repeat
Pensions in a nutshell.
Adam Russell
> Literally ignores the argument placed in the green text while placing his own argument in a green text
Sub 70 IQ at this point, only such a brainlet would think such tactics would go unnoticed.
Isaac Anderson
that analogy is irrelevant to pensions. proper pensions put more in then they take out and don't have large upfront deposits.
neck yourself
Hudson Martin
Yes, pensions are fucking snake oil that union people negotiate to fuck over the employees along with the employer.
I rather get paid more NOW than get a pension later that may not happen or disappears as a source of income for my family when I die
Brody White
What I’m arguing is that having your money pooled in with others to fund retirements of the current generation is shit. Have your employer set up a personal account or do it yourself, but the money you put in should be for you and no one else, that’s what i’m arguing
David Green
C'mon man, millenials just need to work harder. Boomers have earned their pensions, so pay up you ungrateful lazy millenials
then work non-union. oh wait, they have lower wages lmao
that's retarded. with pension funds you can get more out than you put in
John Price
Looking at the track record it’s far safer than your shit-tier government jew faggotry
Nolan Morgan
The analogy was aimed to explain to you how a system can "work fine" for some years, but then collapse, as you mentioned SS "working fine". On the scenario of pensions, the initial money pool can be easily replaced by a pyramid scheme, and as soon as the pyramid fails, the system collapses.
You are so stupid jesus christ hahaha.
Nathan King
This. They all gamble on a swift death of the pensionist which seems to work well for them.
If you end up with an old population and immigrants refusing to work you get the problems OP is mentioning (like in germany)
Robert Butler
Most union jobs ended up having wages of $0 when they closed down.
Brandon James
People are insane to put the govt in charge of both our retirement AND our healthcare. They do not see the writing on the wall.
Jonathan Wilson
but the analogy isn't how pensions work so it's irrelevant.
>b-but if fraud occurs! not an argument
union shops are less likely to close than non-union shops.
Jordan Hill
>with pension funds you can get more out than you put in Exactly how? If you’re putting in $100/paycheck to an account with any interest it’ll be the exact same thing as 1000 people putting in $100/paycheck at the same interest divided by 1000 people
Charles Russell
>oh wait, they have lower wages lmao >again depending on someone to hold your hand >can’t even negotiate a decent wage during a job interview
They’re getting around to it thanks to the failure of obamacare and surprisingly the government shutdowns
Levi Hill
Maybe now that most union shops have been btfo but tell that to all the ppl who got laid off from union jobs since the 60’s
Kevin Robinson
the easiest way to explain this is
>1990s need X per month to live comfortable >mandatory saving system designed for X per month for Y years >2020s standard of living improves >costs increase to 2X per month >life expectancy increases >years on retirement increases to 1.5Y >not enough saved by individual >must tax new generation to pay for old >not enough money in system
it was never going to work
Logan Walker
Unionfag here. Our pension fund has been viable for 100 years. It is entirely private and the funds are invested in the market. Kill yourself brainlette. You're too dumb to live and probably dont even have a job.
>union shops are less likely to close than non-union shops Because union shops are immune to the health of the economy
Ryder Davis
> But goyim, pensions do not work like that, and by that I mean, lets ignore all that has been said about how they work.
Pathetic rofl. Literally has been explained pensions work in various ways, and the particular one YOU shill for while u act like there was no other system, is not saved from the simple fact that you NEED to INJECT more money than you TAKE OUT, or the system collapses, and per your words, that's done by workers injecting their money for the retired ones to take out, while also getting interest by loaning some of that money... that again, simple math, relies on getting more money in than it takes out but, as proven historically, can fail, spectacurarly, because, PER YOUR WORDS, "IT WORKS AS LONG AS THERE IS GROWTH" , but eternal growth is just not possible as resources are limited.
Wonder what evasive or what argument already laid out will you ignore now, pathetic jew hahahahahahahhaha.
Alexander White
they also have minimum years of work needed, which a noticeable amount of workers contribute to a pension without actually reaching that threshold. sure it's taking advantage, but that's capitalism and it's literally their fault for joining for so little.
>what is compound interest?
that is what you do in non-union. good luck having any non-union shop pay you more than a union shop delusional cuck.
>i'm more powerful bargainer than 1000s of me durrr
>most union shops have been btfo Maybe in your state. SF electricians make 70/h. You don't even need to live in SF to be one.
Jeremiah Cox
they used to be, until SS ran out of money and started grabbing from non pension funds to pay pensioners
Michael Perry
>but eternal growth is just not possible as resources are limited. So quit contributing when the market is down, you retarded fucking cuck? Play the god damn market retard. That's how life works.
Luke Hall
then why does chicago have a pension crisis
Alexander Jones
SS hasn't run out of money retard.
Camden Moore
Tell me, how much does your pension pay, how much did you put in, and how much was aquired trough other means and how.
-"Pensions that pay for non liveable wages are viable" -"Pensions for top 10% earners are just fine"
