Is hell real? I personally like the idea of Buddhist heaven and hell which aren’t permanent. Discuss

>At. Anthony on SJWs

>in orthodoxy hell and heaven are the same place
This isn't even actual orthodox theology. Literally just used to help liberals feel better about sending people to hell.

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A Buddhist hell is what happens when you constantly cause suffering to others. It isn't a philosophical idea, a maybe, it is either something you are experiencing right now or you aren't. This illusory reality is a Buddhist hell, for what it's worth, just a subtle one for most. Samara is always eventually disappointing because we can never satisfy all of our desires. You may not be experiencing it as hell right now. Others are.

please teach me, i've just been orthodox all my life

Second death is purgatory.

>i've just been orthodox all my life
Just because you were born in it doesn't mean that you have an acute understanding of any of its theology. I'm a cathcuck and even I know that most legitimate Orthodox don't preach that non-sense. It most likely has its genesis somewhere in the west where Orthodoxy is giga-cucked.

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so you are catholic that hates orthodoxy and spams shit "memes" against it, yet you'll teach me about orthodox theology.
lel

Papism is a lie, it's a cult created by Constantine in the 4th century AD
God aided England in writing the English bible, he helped the translators Jesus Christ was an Anglo and so were Adam and Eve
Read the bible and you'll see the truth
Papism is a sickness, go back to Ireland bog nigger

bzz, let's be real the actual buddhism barely differs from hinduism (see moksha btw, buddhism really invented nothing new) and has a complicated pantheon, hells, heavens etc
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avīci

>literally defending your own theology against what is legitimate 24 carrot heresy in your own tradition
>wow u must be h8er!!!

LOL
"I personally like the idea of.."

It doesn't matter what YOU personally BELIEVE. The truth is if there is or isn't one, it has 0 to do with what you retardedly believe or not. You're a special kind of idiot. No matter what you believe, you're definitely going to find out if there is one and if you're going to be in it or not. That's a fact.

Blame the KJV for rendering at least 4 different words "hell".

just fuck off uneducated cathcuck
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_views_on_Hell#Orthodox_conceptions

you gotta tend to perfection, per ardua ad astra, faggot, if hell is not forever why even bother

>Papism is a sickness, go back to Ireland bog nigger
Maybe it is but that doesn't change the fact that ALL Christians believed in purgatory for over 1600 years.

It’s real but only permanent if you refuse to ask forgiveness for your sins.

>Christian
>Orthodox
There is only one Christian faith, the one started by Jesus in England!

Did you make this thread just because of my Orthodoxy thread yesterday?

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Exactly my point, for 1,600 years because some Roman Pagans made it up. Jesus didn't spread that belief to his followers it's man made doctrine

Do you question Islam, infidel?
Burn in hell you fucking dog the caliphite will return, Remains and stretches
We will behead you and throw you off a building then rape your wife and pray that you burn in hell
Dog infidel cunt don't insult the prophet infidel donkey
We will avenge the crusades

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no they didn't, catholics invented the concept of punishing god so they could collect money from people

The Orthodox church never accepted the purgatory doctrine, this is modern Catholic fiction. We have never believed that there is a need for atonement in the judicial sense, that is not what Sheol/Hades is. Catholics are historically illiterate with brainlet theology.

Life is forever niggas. This earth is hell and this earth is heaven. If God truly truly truly loves us why will he give us only one chance? Wouldn't a loving father give you infinite chances to learn your lesson. This is what happens on earth. We have some unfulfilled desires as well as some unfulfilled lessons we have yet to learn. That's why we keep taking birth again and again and again. Good karma liberates us from the cycle. Bad karma traps us and keeps us on earth forever.

Cool, now stop the idol worship.
It tells you not to do this in the second chapter of the bible, do you just skip that one?

Bruh once whites awaken you can rest assured Islam will be wiped off the face of the earth

I think the second death refers to people knowing ,after judgement , that they made the wrong choice of not choosing Him.And now their soul will experience a complete abscence from God , their voices will never be heard , completely disconnected they shall never , ever see His light.Conolete abscence from God , life itself , is death real death.That is the real Hell

>not understanding zizolous's ontological view of separation of god
>not understanding that this started with fucking Bulgagov of all people, a 20th century theologian
Kosovo

you have a chance to live eternally along with him but u gotta choose it and stick to it, it's up to you.

orthodoxwiki.org/Absolution_Certificates
Absolution for me but not for thee!!!!

see

The New Testament quotes the Old Testament which accepts the Catholic books of the Bible. This means that the New Testament writers accepted the Septuagint version, and thus the seven books which the Protestants reject.

... But there’s more. In Hebrews 11:35 of the Protestant and Catholic Bibles, we see a reference to an event which is only recorded in the Second Book of Machabees chapter 7.

Hebrews 11:35- “Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection...”

This reference is found in only one place in the Bible. It’s found in 2 Machabees 7, which tells the story of the mother and her seven sons. This mother and her seven sons refused deliverance from torture so that they might receive resurrection with the just. So, in Hebrews 11:35, St. Paul is making reference to the Second Book of Machabees. This demonstrates that 2 Machabees, which the Protestant Bible doesn’t have, is part of the true
Old Testament. 2 Machabees chapter 12 clearly teaches prayer for the dead and therefore Purgatory.

2 Machabees 12:46- “It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins.”

This verse teaches Purgatory.

Whether you like it or not this is what the earliest christian believed, not because of any Catholic Church but because of the Maccabees, the last Judean Dynasty.

I always thought it was weird hell doesn't exist in the old testiment, but only a sleep before judgment and "hell" is not existing as you are eternally seperate from God (and the creation cannot be, so ceases).

GO
BACK
TO
IRELAND
NIGGER

Look man, I know you're coming from a good place, but you don't understand what idolatry in the book is referring to. That's the problem with reading the bible without any historical context, outside the church. These people were literally sacrificing and praying to gods made by human hands. It's not referring to having art, or using art in veneration. We do not pray to icons, we use them as a prayer aid. We do not pray to the saints pictured, we ask them to pray for us, just like you would ask a member of your congregation to pray for you. We believe the saints are still a living part of the Christian family and they are capable of praying for us. The use of icons date back to the earliest centuries of the church, if people who know the apostles or knew people who knew the apostles didn't have a problem with icons used in worship, do you really think Pastor Jim knows better than the earliest Christians who were far closer culturally and in terms of oral tradition to Christ than we are today? I know there are a lot of bad things about the Catholic church historically but you need to look into Orthodox icon theology more, just saying this because I know it's a common protestant talking point that turns a lot of people off at first.

The idea earth is hell, and heaven is escaping the reincarnation cycle, is a heretical but interesting take.

hehe who would care of the church in this life if you could repent in the afterlife, the church fathers invented almost immediately that repentance is possible only when you are alive. funnily how much later swedenborg tried to justify it with some ridiculous metaphysical mumbo-jumbo

if anything the idea of purgatory is a great improvement and it is humanistic too, there is another humanist idea and an attempt to solve the problem of hell (eternal punishment for the crimes that caused limited suffering isn't even just leaving aside merciful and it makes the god both unjust and unmerciful) i mean the idea of universal salvation

Orthodox Christianity is most based Christian Theology

>Orthodox icon theology
I still haven't been given an answer to why Orthodox constantly bitch at the Catholics for using Statues despite Chrysostom Homily written for statue veneration.

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NOT
AN
ARGUMENT

Keep thinking that the Edomites are the Jews of the bible and support Isreal and forget who you actually are.

Dude we have the Maccabees and even more books than you do. "Purgatory" as it's described in Maccabees is not the same as modern conceptions of purgatory. We believe souls go to Hades but they don't go there for x numbers of years to be purified before they can enter heaven. That is a latter Catholic innovation that isn't accepted by the historical church.

Huh, all that Buddhist art showing people getting sawed in half by demons for not an eternity (just the amount of time it takes to fill a universe sized basket grain by grain with rice or whatever) must be a creative interpretation of what it feels like to cause others suffering.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naraka_(Buddhism)

No, Hell is fire. Jesus, read the gospels or revelation. It’s not that hard.

Your church felt like it was appropriate to accept Toll Houses. I don't see why Catholics aren't allowed to have purgatory.

>Eternal life is literal
>Eternal death is metaphorical
I'll make it simple for all of you; if eternal life is the reward, what is the opposite of that? Annihilation. Eternal death. Poof. Gone forever. If you read the bible the whole thing is saying THE WAGES OF SIN IS DEATH! THE WAGES OF SIN IS DEATH! repeatedly. Adam brought sin into the world and then he what? DIED. To me it seems clear that at the very least annihilationism. Death and hell are thrown into the lake of fire? What do you make of this eternal conscious torment believers? How does hell go to the lake of fire? And death? Jesus said those who don't want him as a king should be put forth before him to be SLAIN. Aka KILLED. Am I saying this is 100 percent correct? No, but just by reading the verses, it seems to me eternal death makes the most sense. Otherwise, "eternal death" is really also eternal life just terrible in the most awful way. It does not help Hell as an idea is pagan in origin.

Because the church doesn't stand or fall with Chrysostom. Icons are a better way to use art in worship because it follows certain artistic techniques and patterns that carry a theological significance. If John believed statues were sufficiently good to be used in worship that's more of a misled opinion from his side. You don't go to hell for not hating statues enough, but we rarely use them in our services. Only Western Rite Orthodox sometimes use statues.

>(((bible)))

There is nothing permanent. Even Allah.

Because it's not the same soteriology. We don't believe in a legalistic view of the atonement. The Toll Houses are a minority opinion held by maybe 5-10% of the church, it has never been Orthodox dogma nor has it ever been the majority opinion.

well i prefer the interpretation that it's not a "physical" separation from god, but spiritual, not being able to partake in communion with him, feeling endless urge to be in that love, but with all your passions weighing on you and pulling you away. that is connected with theosis which teach that the best time to get rid of passions is while we're still alive as it will be infinitely harder in afterlife.

>unironically worshipping rabbi yeshua
Jow Forums is pathetic

>read the gospels
I strictly posted "in the old testament" you low IQ retard

The Orthodox Church in Cyprus is willing to help refugees from it's neighbor Syria. Point being?

That makes sense. I'm sure it's all twisted up.
Hell everyone thinks the Edomites of the Herodian dynasty are the Same as Isreal and Judah.
the more I learn the more I learn that I don't know it all.
Purgatory as I was taught it was not a separate place from hell. Hell was just separation from God's kingdom, so purgatory was a temporary separation from god's kingdom until such time as the already forgiven sin was atoned for.

The bible obviously tells us to pray for the dead so that they may be loosed from their sin.

We don't believe you go to hell for crimes commited. Again, that's a western legalistic idea. We beleive that you go to hell if you haven't willed toward God enough, if you haven't been deified through prayer, asceticism and love.
>unironically worshipping God
Wow a real slapper of an argument

imo catholicism is the most based, it's only bad part it's the infallible pope, the rest is top tier

>I always thought
Nah, thats not how it works. You have to read and read and in order to understand you must pray for wisdom and understanding, but if you do not believe God you will surely never know and understand. Thats just how things work, this is how it is.

not gonna lie , i feel aroused by this discussion

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Catholicism hasn't maintained the theology of the early church. I'm not saying the Catholic church is all bad, but it has cut itself off from guidance from the Holy Spirit which is why it has erred more and more since the schism.

I understand that they aren't infallible (origen comes to mind for you guys) but surely statue veneration shouldn't be treated like a "western innovation" like it is. You have a history with statues that goes beyond that of decorative purpose. You will surely admit that this is a miscarriage of justice atleast?

I was raised Catholic and still believe in most of it. the ONE problem i have is the universalism that was brought into inwhen it became the official religion of Rome.

Jesus came for the lost tribes of Isreal ONLY.

>revelation

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I did read. I know you are ESL, so I will explain: I read the OT, talked with my pastor and rabbis (via the internet), and reached the conclusion that hell's description in the OT vs NT being completely different was odd.
Try to keep up.

>it has erred more and more since the schism
I know, our "legalistic" view of abortion must be really heretical I'm sure.

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Statues aren't appropriate for use in veneration because they don't follow the strict artistic forms that icons have to abide by. Statue veneration was never the consensus of the early church, it only existed in small pockets and at short periods of time. Catholic churches all use statues which are not appropriate for veneration because they don't adhere to iconic forms.

>Statue veneration was never the consensus of the early church
>Chrysostom writes a fucking homily on it
>we da troo church!!!
Unreal

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> that hell's description in the OT vs NT being completely different was odd
>ESL
>talked with my pastor and rabbis (via the internet)
So you're not a believer, obviously. I have nothing more to say to you.

Abortion is forbidden in ALL cases in Orthodox theology. Eastern Europe had lower abortion rates than western Europe prior to Communist takeover. You can't blame the church for the actions of Commies.

Dude you're a legitimate soft brain. Chrysostom's opinion in this matter is barely relevant. Statues aren't completely banned but we prefer icons.

>talked with my pastor
>ur..not a beliver!
Again, try to keep up ESL. Also, a terrible way to treat someone you belive to be a lost sheep. Would Jesus approve?

Could be. I don't have the answer. None of us do.
I never believed the whole lake of fire thing. The cleansed by fire thing in Corinthians, I always took as burnt away the bad parts. Makes sense that it means just to disappear like a dog does when it dies.

Oh, so you mean before industrialization and when you were all serfs you had low abortion????

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War refugees but hes actually been attacked countless times from the media because he said we should kick out all illegals and the ones not fleeing war but just jumping the opportunity.

>Chrysostom's opinion in this matter is barely relevant
He is a church father, ofcourse his opinion is fucking relevant.
>da troof!!!!

it is just a mental gymnastic
the idea of the eternal hell is horribly unjust regardless
it's additionally unjust if we remember that the god didn't even give all the people an equal opportunity to avoid it, the game is rigged, many never even heard the word of god, others heard it but were conditioned by their society to choose another religion, some were born in the countries with the true christian religion, some were born to pious parents some were not, some met people who made them trust the gid, some met the people who made them turn from the religion etc etc

also if anything your "not for crimes but for abandoning the god" can lead to very real brutalities irl because well it makes it more important not to abandon the god than not to torture, mutilate and kill another human being, making the latter forgivable

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They’re called bardos and there are countless bardos including hell realms that are full of fire for some when they die. But yeah eventually you’d get to re-incarnation even if it took 3,000 years of burning or whatever the fuck they say.

Here’s what all religions say, don’t be a piece of shit, don’t be selfish, calm the fuck down and be grateful... or else you’ll be sorry when you die. Wanna fight me about it? Pro tip: you can’t, I’m literally a quantum mess of thoughts and vibrating atoms.

Muslims go to Hell for hating dogs.

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>My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
>And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
More more
> And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
I doubt that you're ordained through all this bullshit or maybe its just a thing you're going through, either way im little to no concerned since God gathers his own and takes care of them.
I have nothing to worry about since it is so, also you're a fucking retard for talking to "rabbis"
>But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
You butthurt little jew? You're also spewing forth terrible lies regarding the old and new testament, which is not at all surprising seeing you're so lost and confounded in bullshit you have no connection to God.
I doubt that the right version ( KJV) and reading non-stop will resolve this spiritual issue but you might try just because you're going to hell either way, give it a shot, heretic.

Yes

>the game is rigged, many never even heard the word of god, others heard it but were conditioned by their society to choose another religion, some were born in the countries with the true christian religion, some were born to pious parents some were not, some met people who made them trust the gid, some met the people who made them turn from the religion etc etc
"If you had been blind, you would have had no sin. But now you say 'We see,' so your sin remains" (John 9:41)

Gr8 b8 m8.
But yes is real AND eternal.
It's real because our free will.
You choose separation from God and by that you suffer in hell.
It's eternal because it is not material it's a state due to a decision you made and unchangeable since there is not time anymore to change idea.
So yeah you are fucked forever.

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Do you know what the word gentile means ?

Ok I'm sorry but which one of you is this?
reddit.com/r/OrthodoxChristianity/comments/apqq9y/losing_my_faith/
He is subbed to LDS so I can only presume he is contemplating Ordodox :D, Islam, or Mormonism for practical purposes.

A rabbi is a title, as Christianity stemmed from it I wanted to know what they had beloved during Jesus's day. Without context, the words can be used in anyway you like. Your verses are not showing me how the OT refers to hell, and if you wish to clarify that point I'm all ears. Hell in OT seems vastly different than what is brought up in the NT, when it's mentioned at all. KJ is a decent translation, which my study Bible is. Your animosity in words is not a fruit of the spirit, and shows a deep seeded personal anger you should work on with God.

Where did it all go wrong?

>Gregory, bishop, servant of the servants of God, to all who are willing to defend the Christian faith, greeting and apostolic benediction.

>We hereby inform you that the bearer of this letter, on his recent return from across the sea [from Palestine], came to Rome to visit us. He repeated what we had heard from many others, that a pagan race had overcome the Christians and with horrible cruelty had devastated everything almost to the walls of Constantinople, and were now governing the conquered lands with tyrannical violence, and that they had slain many thousands of Christians as if they were but sheep. If we love God and wish to be recognized as Christians, we should be filled with grief at the misfortune of this great empire [the Greek] and the murder of so many Christians. But simply to grieve is not our whole duty. The example of our Redeemer and the bond of fraternal love demand that we should lay down our lives to liberate them. "Because he has laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren," [1 John 3:16]. Know, therefore, that we are trusting in the mercy of God and in the power of his might and that we are striving in all possible ways and making preparations to render aid to the Christian empire [the Greek] as quickly as possible. Therefore we beseech you by the faith in which you are united through Christ in the adoption of the sons of God, and by the authority of St. Peter, prince of apostles, we admonish you that you be moved to proper compassion by the wounds and blood of your brethren and the danger of the aforesaid empire and that, for the sake of Christ, you undertake the difficult task of bearing aid to your brethren [the Greeks]. Send messengers to us at once inform us of what God may inspire you to do in this matter.

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Universal Reconciliation is a great thought but I am very weary of believing it. It just sounds too good to be true. But there is some verses supporting the idea, and I would absolutely love if that were the truth.

>KJ is a decent translation, which my study Bible is
make SURE you get a Strong's Exhaustive concordance. It will blow your mind what the words actually mean in alot of passages.

Or just download E-Sword. It has the concordance for every word in the bible.

free will is such a mockery that even many chrustians believe that some people are born being destined to go to the hell... on their free will ofc, the mental gymnastic is real, lol. the god is also apparently somehow just and benevolent metting them that fate

The greek/Latin possible differences in words really make some passages different, ala shining one for the serpent in eden.

>Universal Reconciliation
Well we all come from God and God is everything, so it's makes SOME sense but if we have no self awareness at that point it's kind of moot.

I've really been going through the concordance lately and am starting to think that there are two different types of saved people. the elect and everyone else and their roles are different.