My theory is that the reason that the military is doubling- tripling- quadrupling-down on “future combat systems” that don't work, and often by design *can't* work to an acceptable degree is that foreign elements have taken over the government so deeply and so thoroughly that they think to "set the standard" and sell all these inferior technology-heavy systems to everyone else while keeping the good stuff (the things that actually *work*) to themselves.
Take, for example, two of the biggest high-profile programs which seem to embody infinite spending: the Navy's Littoral Combat Ship, and the “multi-service” “multi-roll” F-35 — both endless sinks of money, and with the latter being particularly BAD because of it's middle-of-the-road jack-of-all-trades design which seems an almost deliberate choice to limit military effectiveness.
It's a superiority fighter. I doesn't need to do things like outrun, out maneuver. I just fires one missile before the enemy even knows it's being engaged.
Kayden Baker
>It's a superiority fighter. No it's not; the F-22 is an Air-Superiority Fighter. The F-35 is a goddamn "multi-roll" aircraft.
Grayson Carter
The F35 is not fighter per se it is a battle field management system. Unmatched as a first strike weapon. But being fully automated, will it hold up in contested cyberspace or EMP? It may prove useless if the "bolt out of the blue" fails.
Carter Anderson
Imagine this: as a battle-field management system it as built-in overrides, you know for (((administrative control))).
Jackson Nguyen
Yes, it is very adaptable.
... In fact, so adaptable every time you ask some (((expert))) it seems to be specialized in something completey different.
Dylan Cox
It tried to be everything and in the end, it's fucking nothing. Stupid concept, stupid design and stupid execution. Worst failure of burger military in recent memory and in my view the fault is 90% on the chosen manufacturer.
It is a money scam to funnel the shekels to other shit, as always.
David Barnes
The F-35, haven't read enough about the LCS to comment.
Anthony Ortiz
The first LCS link is a really good intro.
Daniel Morris
f-35 works perfectly well for its intended purpose - bombing shitskin countries with barely anything to fend off with pretty much no danger to the equipment and battle between actual powers devolved into nuke spam back in the 70ies and havent changed in any way since there isnt weapon with better cost-destruction efficiency in the word then a nuclear missile, only downside is that enemy does the same and its a double suicide
F-22 is god with wings. F-35 is gods retarded brother trying to do everything.
Daniel Hughes
Remember when the OICW was appearing in games like Soldier of Fortune 2 and Delta Force: Land Warrior?
Brandon Wood
I see them flying low over my city all the time now.
The F16s were fucking beautiful, but these are not too shabby either.
William Wright
It replaces 4 diferent aircraft,and not in as many numbers. Its a stop-gap between now and a full drone airforce. They already have a carrier tactical bomber, they'll keep coming out with more over the F 35's lifespan. There will be no next plane like it. All the drones will have systems that will be integrated with a "mothership", which will be the only thing manned. That and nuke capable strategic bombers. This is all public information, printed in defense journals. Its cheaper than making 4 new different air craft and trying to get them all out and be the last of their type, why not make just 1, and role out all the drones throughout its life? Designing plane w/o piolits is very different than with them. Many things change if you don't have to protect the human.
Benjamin Roberts
Well a Stuka or an IL-2 with modern targeting systems would sufice against sandniggers
Nolan Powell
This. USA is also selling a shit load of them for profit.
The $1.5 trillion figure is for thousands and thousands of aircraft for the next 50 years. If we instead upgraded F-16,18, Harrier over that same time period it would cost 3x as much.
It's just butthurt chinks that post these threads anyways. They are literally 20 years or more behind USA in producing an engine like that which the F-35 uses.
Look, I'm not against advancement -- but these shitshows are *RIDICULOUS*! Let's put actual fines and penalties in our military contracts instead of this "Cost+" bullshit.
Tyler Butler
>Let's put actual fines and penalties in our military contracts instead of this "Cost+" bullshit. Yeah, I agree. I disagree that we should cancel every program that doesn't work perfectly however.
Jacob Hernandez
Who said anything about it working perfectly? I want things that work, not BS like:
Someone posted on here that the F35 is being deliberately slandered and called shit as a means of downplaying its effectiveness, i.e it is all a PR move, which would make sense. it seems strange that there would be so many problems yet it is still selling okay.
Ethan Sanchez
The F-35 was a clusterfuck of technologies trying to be mashed into an airframe that was supposed to do way more than any of its predecessors have done. It was a giant experiment of slapping everything people wanted into a plane when it would be more accustomed to the bridge of a ship. It's not necessarily bad, as it's more of a battlefield/fire control aircraft that's supposed to be locked with a bunch of other datalinks. It costing $1.5 trillion so far is almost expected when you consider how ridiculous the task is, the companies making it and the fact that retards keep trying to reverse-engineer the wheel.
But there's at least $700B that's been funneled into some other project through the F-35 program. For sure.
>it seems strange that there would be so many problems yet it is still selling okay.
Little thing called bribes.
Ryder Bell
F35 isn’t a fighter plane. It’s a stealth platform to locate enemy planes without being spotted and have other ground based systems hit them with long range missiles
A trillion dollar isn't that much for the US. Meanwhile you conned the whole of Europe to suicide their defence industry to buy more F35's. You conned the Chinese into wasting a ton of effort copying that shit.
Mission accomplished, it was always meant to distract enemies from the future of aerial warfare. Drones and hypersonic cruise missiles.
Blake Bailey
>11B >smart pick one
Elijah Reed
No it’s definitely a fighter. Hence the F designation.
Adrian Fisher
Israel is now buying the F15X. The F35 was supposed the be their last piloted aircraft. What went wrong?
Jace Anderson
>The $1.5 trillion figure is for thousands and thousands of aircraft for the next 50 years.
$1.5 trillion / 4000 = $375 million. And 4000 is a very optimistic figure given the USA only plans to buy 2700.
Jaxson Long
It's a strike fighter >what's a strike fighter An attack aircraft (think CAS, airstrikes, SEAD) that is capable of being its own escort fighter at the same time.
Austin Harris
Israel doesn't exactly have a use for a fire control aircraft and iirc they wouldn't be able to use it effectively based on the equipment they have So they go with a modernized flying missile boat to compete with the shit-tier aircraft that comprise almost the entirety of every other ME aircraft
Carson Nguyen
yeep
Military
Industial
Complex
cmon amerifats, dont you know the game by now?
Ayden Anderson
>stealth
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Only if your enemy is using some radar system from the 1960's.
1. F-15X is a missile truck meant to back up the F-35 (and F-22 btw), not a replacement for it 2. This isn't new. Both the USAF and other air forces have wanted a missile truck since one key event - Obama's cancellation of the F-22. The need for a missile truck has nothing to do with the capabilities of either the Raptor or the Lightning. It has to do with the fact that the quantitative strength of the F-22 fleet was prematurely hobbled, with the -35 potentially in danger as well (again, not due to capability, but budgetary factors, sequestration is still a thing guys).
When the Raptor got cut short, they immediately starting talking about a concept similar to this. At first they thought about converting B-1's for it (called B-1R, featuring supercruise and AESA radars). However, they ultimately decided against it. IIRC there was talk about converting B-52's, but this went no where as well. Ultimately, it was concluded the F-15X provided pretty much the same capability they wanted without converting a bunch of old ass bombers. But now that there's news about it everyone who's retarded is losing their shit.
Jayden Clark
A battlefield management system belongs on an AWACS, not the fighters.
Josiah Brooks
its to keep the fucking cash flowing to contractors, its how its always been you retard we live in a socialist hell hole where they just started taking our money and spending it and no one started shooting so you faggots sold us down the river decades ago. and then retarded boomers fucked things up beyond repair. the only way forward now is the dissolution of the federal gov and all its policies, its a criminal organization that was never meant to exist according to our constitution.
Matthew Bennett
holy shit, stop saying "multi-roll" you colossal retard. It's "role". A Roll is a baked piece of bread.
Xavier Moore
*snap* Yep, that's going in my COPE collection.
Matthew Hall
Pretty much this. I bet less than 10% of the "funds" went to this "project".
Parker Ramirez
These guys get it. To see a list of buyers, just go to the F35.com website lol.
Camden Hill
Except no one's getting rid of AWACS, things have just advanced to the point that fighters possess some AWACS capabilities on their own. What's your fucking problem?
Zachary James
I thought it could do an aileron roll and a barrel roll, hence "multi roll".
Nathan Smith
Why are multi-**role** aircraft suddenly controversial? You realize we've had three different ones in our inventory for over 30 years? (F-16, F-15E, F-18, F-14B)
Elijah Gutierrez
>government dumps $100B into a project >contractor spends it on lobbyists and dividends to share holders and then asks for more money >government thinks about canceling it >What? You can't back out now! You've already sunk so much in. Think about the jobs! >Congress gives them $100B more >Repeat 14x
Ryan Perry
>my sides are you just trolling or are you actually retarded?
Julian Anderson
It was a barrel troll.
Hunter Hall
Are you an oldfag?
Ian Edwards
Yes, I've been here since august 2017.
Ryder Hill
It hasn’t cost 1.5 trillion dollars so far, not even close. That’s the total cost plus maintenance after 50 years, adjusted for inflation.
Tyler Clark
Multiroll sounds much better. It's something Maverick would climb into and fuck up hajji commies with.
Multirole sounds like something an accountant would fly to his work at the Pentagon. Boring!
Charles Rogers
>adjusted for inflation.
So in reality it will cost MORE.
Jonathan Perry
Yeah I made a typo. No you dolt it's adjusted for future values
Jace Peterson
No, I mean that 1.5 trillion is going to be in 2050s dollars. Pay attention. They already have the unit cost under 100 million for the A variant.
Asher Nguyen
you have to add this its the DoD report and complains as what a huge cluster fuck of a failure the F35 is.
>No, I mean that 1.5 trillion is going to be in 2050s dollars.
No it won't.
Because they have no way of telling how high the inflation will be. If they say "corrected for inflation" they mean current year dollars.
Michael Hall
A central critique of the F35 is that it does not have the fuel capacity for taking on a near peer competitor. This is a fatal flaw if we confront China.
Ryder Edwards
No the current projection for the cost of the program by 2070 is $1.508T, adjusted for an average inflation rate
Wyatt Sanchez
Not necessarily an issue. How does it become a fatal flaw if competing against China?
Cameron Perry
LOL. is a way for gvt contractors and politicians to steal and hide take payer money. zog war is a racket.
You're not allowed to have an opinion on military equipment.
Gavin Richardson
SEETHING Dmitri
Josiah Johnson
? Where the fuck did you get that? You realize it has longer legs than Strike Eagle, right?
Gabriel Smith
There are already stealthy drop tanks available, with prototypes of external stealth pods on the way.
Justin Clark
I've suspected for many years now that foreign governments, especially Russia and China, have infiltrated the government and major government contractors to not only steal state secrets and technologies, but also to sabotage the operation of government agencies and development of future technologies by getting assigned to those projects and pushing for bad decisions and delaying any kind of productivity.
At a certain point, normal bureaucratic sloth becomes intentional slow working and sabotage. I've had administrators several levels above me make obviously bad decisions to damage my organization and cause confusion. I've also had them sit on decisions for so long that the problem is completely out of control and cannot be corrected.
The FBI needs to stop investigating conservatives online and start actually investigating these double agents working for and with the government. Easy way to start: make a list of all known communists and those with communist ties and recommend the president fire them by Executive Order.
They are perfectly fine aircraft, they aren’t a super advanced plane like the f22 which we will still keep around for air superiority roles. They are able to match most current fighters and surpass many. The reason the program cost so much is 1. These aircraft use a linked system to maximize communication between them and therefore allow them to make the second advantage they have even more dominating 2 that they are being mass produced in the thousands, outnumbering any foe would could match the aircraft currently by outnumbering and outmaneuver he them with highly coordinated maneuvers. The US is literally the most experienced country in air superiority and air warfare, they know what they are doing
Nathaniel Reed
>foreign elements have taken over the government so deeply and so thoroughly that they think to "set the standard" and sell all these inferior technology-heavy systems to everyone else while keeping the good stuff (the things that actually *work*) to themselves No shit.
Wanna know an open secret? The Israeli F-35I's already work, unlike those of the US. How peculiar!
>project guaranteed to pay for itself multiple times in the next few decades >overall the best plane as of today If it's a "multi-roll" plane, OP could likely be a vatnik behind proxy, but this project revealed interesting welfare vs. warfare state relations in US media.
F-35 is just a front for Skunk Works, all the real tech is behind the scenes
John Wilson
It’s almost like Israel only has a handful that they can work on individually while the US is mass producing them.
Angel Sanders
It's not, all the fighters since the 90's are multi or omni roles, it isn't good at anything while other aircraft are just as bad but are way cheaper.
Kevin Thomas
>Chinks at it again Has anyone seen the F35 demo recently? They are slowly unlocking the Fly by Wire and the Jet flies totally different than 2 years ago. It takes time to work out the bugs. Here is last years RIAT. youtu.be/vu8N579v75U
Cooper Powell
This. Israel used to buy only the frame and to make all the rest nationally. The F35 forced them to send a part of their economy to the shitter and to buy American parts.
Carson Richardson
ok but it kicks ass in Ace Combat
Michael Scott
Enemy radars operating in the longer wave lengths like L, UHF, and VHF may make stealth obsolete. Then the F35 must compete against the SU35S in such things as speed, climb, altitude, and maneuverability. Is it up to the task?
Lucas Nelson
>isn't good at anything No shit, do you fly it yourself?
Jayden Roberts
I want to write a book: Weaknesses in Modern US Military Doctrine; Warfare, Batteries not Included.
I remember our humvees got FBCB2s and I was tasked with driving the Battalion Commander around during a FTX. The hardened warfighter with the cerified badass tabs on his left shoulder turned to me, the young kid who just got done training on how to use the system, what I thought about the new systems. I replied, "Sir, I think the system is too slow and will take too much time away from more important training. We should train batteries not included." This sparked a multi day conversation between him and I while I escorted him from Chow, his M9 qual, S4 briefings and such. There is a glaring problem with technological force multipliers turning into mission critical equipment. Learn to fight in the dark with a platoon, and when it's time to go hot, and they happen to have PVS14s and PEQ2s to hand out, we can accomplish the mission and cheat while doing it. From VTOL to Stealth, from GPS to burst trans encrypted radio. These complex systems increase the MTBF, which turn into mission failures. F35 could be the most wonderful asset in the air, call it invincible, when it's on the ground it's a $115M target of opportunity which requires protection detail, runway and maintenance facilities. A10 has the exact opposite philosophy which is why many consider it the most successful fixed winged asset we ever had. But house appropriations committee is the real problem.
You can't target jets and fire missiles with those types of radar. You just know something is in that general area going a general speed.
>gainst the SU35S in such things as speed, climb, altitude, and maneuverability.
Literally doesn't matter. The F-35 will be able to detect the SU-35 before the SU-35 even knows it's there, and spam missiles at the SU-35 beyond visual range.
Joseph Gonzalez
>may make stealth obsolete >F-35 can't turn, can't run, can't climb blah blah blah Sprey is that you? Shouldn't you be designing F-16s?
They should have spent a little less time doing BBP research and more time thinking about how they were actually going to roll out anything useful that was developed.
Luis Murphy
I have to go but I'll be back later, can you expand on this post? Too many acronyms for me to understand.
Jeremiah Walker
>A10 has the exact opposite philosophy which is why many consider it the most successful fixed winged asset we ever had.
No one thinks that. It couldn't even be used in Iraq 2 until later on because it did so poorly in the first gulf war.
Grayson Nguyen
ITT: armchair engineers who think Ace Combat is how actual air warfare works
