Can someone explain why incels are so self-hating and stupid? I'm 18 and a virgin...

T. Incel

You're a virgin and you want to get laid, so you're also an incel by definition you absolute retard.

I'm not OP, take your temper tantrum elsewhere.

This isn't really about myself, I want to have a discussion with someone who feels this way and see their side of things more than anything. I just find their mindset to be incomprehensible.

What's got you all riled up? Can't accept the truth?

>All this unadulterated cope
Say, how tall are you, OP?

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T. Incel

6' 3". Not a cope.

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Ouch! Struck a nerve?

>Surely they must have something wrong with them to actively blame the world around them, but at the same time refuse to do anything to improve themselves.

It is very in-vogue right now to blame society for all your ills.

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Incel truly has become a buzzword for loser at this point.
Anyway, imagine if you never knew how to talk to people. You were in class and had nothing to say to anyone, you just froze up, you never learned how to socialise.
And you've convinced yourself you're a piece of shit that doesn't deserve to live. And you think that all the time. Eventually it goes full circle and everyone else are also pieces of shit in your mind.
And you're jealous of people socialising and flirting and shit, but you can't have that because you never learned how.
And you can't learn how now, because you're a 20-something and basically life's over.
You're a creep because you don't talk to anyone, and you're creepy when you try.
Everyone's constantly judging you. Even those who don't, you convince yourself they do because they must, right?
Might as well just shoot up the fucking school at this point.
This is your 'average incel'.

No, just calling it as I see it

Congrats, that was me. But I don't call myself an incel because I went to therapy, got better, got laid and a good relationship. Strange that, almost as if the only thing keeping them in that mindset is themselves refusing to admit something is wrong with them and blaming it on everyone else

I was this person in school, I could not talk to girls at all, the anxiety was too much to face. But instead of letting my poor past get to me, I realized that it's entirely unproductive to dwell on it. It's all about confidence. I just stopped caring about what people think and now I can have conversations pretty naturally, despite my inability to do so before. A poor past is no excuse, the majority of an incel's misery is brought on them by themselves.

Very few incels blame it on everyone else. Most just blame themselves, but are too resigned to do anything about it.
Once you're 25 and still don't know how to socialise, it's hard to keep any hope that things might change.
You don't know shit cause you're too young.
Most 'incels' are either clinical autists, or had some pretty heavy shit going on in their life that made them unable to learn how to socialise and flirt when they were supossed to.
So, once they got out of that age-range, without those skills, the ship had already sailed and they were now labeled as perma-creeps by everyone else. You can't learn these things in your 20s, noone will give you the time of day.
So of course they start blaming society.

>still don't know how to socialise, it's hard to keep any hope that things might change.
So when you acknowledge you're flawed but do nothing about it, it's easy to lose hope? Yeah no shit.

^ this comment is also me, care to reasons to that since you keep bringing up 25 like it's relevant?

Why would you want to succeed if you're short and ugly? Why shouldn't I want to kill myself if I'm trapped in the body of a subhuman?

You don't understand because you're a fucking brainlet who has never had an existential crisis in his life.

See, you don't understand how impossible it is to function when you have no idea how to socialise in your 20s because you're so young.
It's impossible to learn this trait at this point.
And 'incel' is just a fucking buzzword. It used to be loser, foreverlone, hikkineet.
Now we have 'incel', and all-encompassing buzzword normies use to describe any lonely man they think looks kinda creepy.

Incel has a meaning and is 99% a term used by incels.

They use the term because it makes them feel better about themselves. Fucking scum.

Apparently they expect you to put all the effort you possibly can to become as good as you possibly can. Even though you'll never actually reach the level of others.

>has a meaning
>what is semantic shift

Basically this This thread has no sense.

So you can't reasons to the fact that people over your arbitrary age limit won't agree with you. Okay.

>It's impossible to learn this trait at this point.
This is was exactly the self defeatist, blame everyone else bullshit I was talking about. It is not impossible to learn at all - I wouldn't even say it's all that hard. It's easier than giving up smoking, since I've done both. It just seems impossible and so because you think that, you give up.

Stop blaming the world because you're too scared to put effort in. Its hard and it sucks and you'll get it wrong a lot, that's what learning is about.

Yeah, this is basically what normies don't get.
For alot of losers/incels/virgins call them what you will, years and years of overwhelming effort is required JUST to be on the same level and do the same things normies take for granted and don't even think about, like talking with friends, working, etc etc.

You haven't seen the way girls actually treat good-looking guys? You're not above the incels.

>Apparently they expect you to put all the effort you possibly can to become as good as you possibly can.
Yes, welcome to society.

It's not the world's fault I ended up a broken mess, it's my family's and my fault and I don't blame 'society' for thinking I'm a creep and not giving me the time of day, but damnit I at least have a right to be jealous of them for being 'normal'.

Read

What good is putting extreme amounts of effort in just to be below others anyway?

I'm a 25 y/o virgin and you're full of shit. I don't feel any less socialized or creepier than anyone else for a lack of experience. I've met 35+ year olds married with kids who are more insecure than me in some ways. Pull your head out of your ass and talk to literal people and you'll actually find other people aren't these monolith aliens who ostracize weirdos like you think they are.

You fuck heads are talking down on others for not knowing what being an old virgin is like but its you who are stuck in this juvenile high school mentality on relationships.

>It's not the world's fault
>It's my family's
Hmmm this is still putting the blame of your problems into people other than yourself, so why specify?

I'm jealous of lots of people man, I'd love to be rich. But unfortunately just sitting there bitter and jealous doesn't get me any fucking closer. And no, I may not become the next Bill Gates but at least I with stay flat broke like I would if I were just complaining about it.

>other people aren't these monolith aliens who ostracize weirdos
>I have a good opinion of others, so I don't see why you don't do as well

No need to get so defensive. I have had emotional trauma and existential crisis' for the entirety of my life until I realized I was hurting myself more than anything by persisting with a negative mindset.

That's what you think because you're constantly comparing yourself to others, just stop doing that, live your life with confidence, and eventually, things will pan out.

Firstly, you're just assuming you're gonna be shitter than everyone because 1) you have a self defeatist attitude and 2) you only compare yourself to better people.

The truth is user, the only way your life will ever get better is by dropping this path. Sitting here and being angry that you're needy going to amount to better than anyone is just proving yourself right. So if you wanna be correct and miserable, go nuts. But the only way you'll ever prove yourself wrong about being a useless, worthless piece of shit, as I used to think of myself, is by trying.

Why do others even come into the equation? Is life a competition?

>Implying you can get confidence out of thin air

>Yes, welcome to society.
Fucking retard.

With this mentality we should just say fuck the homeless, the poor, the sick, etc. Fuck everyone who ever fails, because they apparently just didn't work hard enough (or rather probably had a bad roll of the dice).

It’s funny seeing grown ass adults crying that no one matched with them on eharmony

My point is that you can still be an old virgin and not blame other people for your insecurities.
Don't speak for me.

Fucked up family while growing up caused severe depression, which in turn made me a loner during my teens and early 20s and I ended up like I am today.
I don't blame my family exclusively, but they played a role for certain.
Funny thing is, before I started therapy I didn't even consider my family issues had anything to do with me feeling like I'm a worthless piece of garbage all the time.
You'll find it's a similar story with many 'incels'. Incel is such a nice word to dehumanise what essentially is a large group of people with very severe depression.

No, but evaluating yourself on a level that allows you to find your flaws and working towards fixing them will allow you to find peace within yourself and eventually build up feelings of confidence. You also have to realize that being insecure is the most unattractive trait one can have and that will completely ruin any chances you have of impressing anyone, especially women.

>No need to get so defensive
Fuck off. Some people are fucked by virtue of their births and yet you fucking scum shit all over them.

Maybe I should start laughing at poor people because I just had the fortune of being born to a rich family.

>you're just assuming you're gonna be shitter than everyone
It's not just an assumption. Most of the other people started putting effort in earlier than me, and - as a result - they are ahead of me. It's like starting a race unbelievably late.

>Is life a competition?
It sure looks like one.

I'm not denying some people are fucked by the virtue of their birth. There are two types of people in this world - those who can learn from what they've experienced, use it to their advantage, and better themselves as a person, and those who choose to dwell on what they don't have and blame anyone but themselves for their problems. Relating this argument to inceldom, if you consider yourself to be uglier than the average person, instead of wasting every second of your day thinking about this fact, you should be finding ways to improve your looks instead of crying about it and feeling pity for yourself.

The only person here shitting on you is yourself.

No, that's a straw man. Go back and re-read the quote I was responding to and try to make a real point.

Pretty much the exact same here dude. Not abusive family but incredibly neglectful and I didn't get much socialising in, too busy trying to learn to make things edible. Read and , they're both me and my experiences.

Incel is not a way to label the depressed, because if it were I would identify with it. It is a label used for self defeatist people who have literally given up on participating in society on the same level as everyone else.

So? Do you think that everyone keeps developing forever? If so, I have some news for you. Most people plateau as humans at some point. They stop putting in effort to improve themselves and start to stagnate and work backwards. You've probably seen it dozens of times and never even considered it.

Life isn't a race, it's a walk through a gallery. Some people take some time getting through the first room, some people never leave the second. Stop thinking so highly of yourself that you could possibly be an unusual human with unusual behaviour patterns. We're all hard coded.

>people who have literally given up on participating in society
Maybe they had their reasons for doing so.

And that is self defeatist bullshit. Incels think they're so special, they must've been the only ones to go through some hardship. It's not the case my dude, lots of people have been through what you have or worse but haven't given up. Strange, that.

>Stop thinking so highly of yourself
When did I imply I'm thinking highly of myself? Please answer this, I'm genuinely interested.

>We're all hard coded
To do what? What do you mean?

The concept that you think that you're so different from the rest of society (starting late but no one else could've done that or slowed down) is what I'm referring to here. The hard coding is me referring to the concept we all stagnate when we think we're done. Incels just give up before they've even started..

I guess I just can't manage to forgive myself for all the wasted time. Also, laziness.

Not everyone has given up, moron. Some people haven't given up, but any objective assessment of their lives points to failure.
I hope life educates you a little. Some people need a few family member to die before they understand.

I'm 27 and a virgin. You will learn with time that this "just stop being negative bro and be confident" crap doesn't work.

Some people simply don't have sexual value hence why no one wants to fuck them.

Imagine never experiencing positive romantic interactions in 26 years, despite them being the thing you try to achieve most. Like someone else said, imagine putting in constant effort and still losing. No one else has ever looked at me that way, ever. I tried and tried, but not everyone gets to win. Fine, just leave me alone and stop with the patronising 'work on yourself and be confident' shit

Well there must be a reason you don't have "sexual value". Surely you can improve yourself in some way that would make you more attractive.

>Fine, just leave me alone and stop with the patronising 'work on yourself and be confident' shit
But dude. You just didn't try hard enough.Stop whining you incel freak

It's impossible to be happy with that worldview

Are you normie faggots for real trying to convince anyone that starting your life at fucking 25+ has any chance of success?
Getting an education, learning to socialise, all these things, at 25+?
Who's even gonna hire a late 20s/early 30s dude who never worked a day before?
What normie isn't going to think 'what a creep' when someone has no social skills at 25+?
What girl is going to date a 25+ virgin? You know how they think about us.
You're not fooling anyone normie faggots, you're just on a high horse trying to preach us.
I wholeheartedly wish you get run over by a truck when you commute to your wageslave tomorrow.

>Who's even gonna hire a late 20s/early 30s dude who never worked a day before?
Just be confident and give a firm handshake ;)

Then learn. You're only wasting more time whilst you pussy foot about, man. You can realise now and have wasted whatever time you have, or you can wait two years and add that on top, or even longer. What sounds worse to you, honestly?

If you believe your life objectively points to failure and you're not doing anything anything it, you've given up. I've met plenty of people who've lost important family members, at a young age even, and haven't given up. Me, I'd be happy if they died, so you're kind of barking up the wrong tree man.

How so? If life is a competition, would you not want to win that competition? You may not like it, but what that user said is true. You must adapt and improve until you can win the competition.

>What normie isn't going to think 'what a creep' when someone has no social skills at 25+?
Who cares what people think? I've had plenty of people say unfavorable things about me, but instead of getting offended about it, I think about what they said and use it as criticism towards improving myself.

>What girl is going to date a 25+ virgin? You know how they think about us.
They don't have to know you're a virgin. If you portray enough confidence, they probably wouldn't be able to guess at all.

>waaaah waaaah waaah poor pitiful me
>the post

So you'd just rather never live? Because those are your options. Game the fuck up and actually try, or decide that you've lost too much time and sit on the side lines, mistake. I've been there, your excuses can't fool me.

>you're not doing anything anything it, you've given up
Where the fuck did I write that?

You're clearly just projecting your incel boogeyman archetype onto everyone you disagree with. Fuck you.

Sure. I'm gonna improve myself into not being a deformed manlet.

>waaaaah I'm such a victim the world's out to get me I'm incapable of change waaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

What my fella says. Some things are DEFINITELY beyond our control whether we like it or not, and the line between what is and what isn't is extremely subtle. Not everyone can perceive it and, most importantly, the more negative feedbacks you get, the worse it gets. It's a downward spiral.

Tell me where anyone has said "just be confident bro", please.

You guys aren't able to argue against the actual points brought up so you use the meme response.

Nobody has used freak so far unless referring to themselves. Stop strawmanning and try and argue vs the arguments actually brought forth

>deformed
Like literally or are you just ugly?
>manlet
Plenty of people in this world are manlets, that's no excuse.

I'm a bald manlet and I do fine. Turns out sitting around pissing and moaning about it actually does nothing to improve your lot in life. Wow who would have thought that?

Who said I'm incapable of change?

Whoever you are, I sincerely wish your family dies. Then maybe you'll get a hint.

I never said you did, I was making a point. I'm not projecting anything, sorry bud, literally just responding to what you're saying with the information in my head. If you thin my point is irrelevant, you usually say so and give evidence instead of flipping the fuck out.

Why would you play if you're going to lose regardless? Sitting on the sidelines is much less pain

>wants people to die over internet arguments
Goodness me, it's almost like everyone saying you're a piece of shit is correct.

>I sincerely wish your family dies
Yeah you'll probably need to buck this to maybe not be an incel

Ironic since you are yet to make an actual point. Just feel good shit with no substance.

And before you start strawmaning saying I'm whining and blaming others... I blame no one. Just like I wasn't born to compete in the NBA, I wasn't made to compete in the sexual market.

>waaaaah everyone is so mean to me but deep down I'm just a misunderstood "nice guy" even though I wish death upon anonymous strangers families waaaaaaaaah po po little me WONT SOMEONE FEEL SORRY FOR ME REEEEEEEEE

user, I'm the same. It's childhood. You likely had a father, incels didn't. I got a job, everyone loves me. Girls flirt with me. I workout. I eat well. I sleep. I read. I'm finishing school.

It's called willpower. Not everyone has it. I think it comes from childhood. a lot of people had no father figure. But that's no excuse

Your options here are try and possibly succeed or never try. You are choosing never try. If you accept that, that's fine, but you can't blame anyone, not even society, for your own decision.

Yeah, it's definitely less painful initially to stay on the side. But it's so fixing lonely there now, man, how bad is it gonna be in 3 decades time? You deserve so, so much more.

That is not a relevant response to any of my points.

Poor people are lazy faggots though
It's so easy to become middle class when compared to previously

This is exactly what I mean.

Everything you think is just a projected fantasy of the incel meme. Nothing you've said applies even remotely.

What fucking points?

>Dude I'm crippled
>Just be confident and walk ;)
>thanks bro

That person is different to the one giving you actual responses, fyi. They appear to be attempting to speak to you in a language you may understand.

Alright let me get to the point then. When are you going to grow up and quit playing the victim?

ikr. Fuck poor people.

I think the lesson ITT is pretty clear. Fuck those less fortunate and pretend that they just don't work hard enough, regardless whether they do or not.

Well the comment you responded to was me asking people to point out where they got their meme responses from, so that would be a good start. I'm not about to recap all the points I've made in this thread tho, you'll have to actually read for that.

>all normie arguments in this thread can basically be summed up to 'JUST B MOR CONFIDENT BRO'
lmao, why are normies so retarded?

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I do all of that (and am further along than you, 4 years in industry as an engineer) and girls don't flirt with me. It's not willpower, it's good looks, which you have and I don't. Chad's have a bias of ascribing their success to their own actions rather than unearned inheritance

The options are try and fail (as I have been) or relax and fail. You don't understand how hard it is to lose for your entire life. Society chose to reject me. If the pain ever becomes intolerable I'll just rope; this will not affect the world at all