Profit is nothing more than unpaid wages

bump

Profit is necessary for the accumulation of capital (i.e. machinery, technologies). If a firm cannot generate a profit because it all goes out to the workers, managers will not be able to increase the capital to labor ratio and thus productivity stagnates.

>seize means of production
>hand them over to the Party
>wait in breadline

Stupid commie, profit is what the business owner gets AFTER paying your wages and the cost of what good or service you’re paid to provide paying customers. Commies don’t understand business, accounting, or economics.

If you have no profit, how the fuck do you expand, do research and development, and reward people for hard work? God, you're a fucking idiot. Communists are so goddamn stupid.

You are, all of you, nothing but property of the self. You exist solely that I may exert my will and power onto you.

>taxation is theft
>tax everyone 99%
wut

>Implying he's able to make the same amount of money without using the equipment, resources and brand name of the company that he is given because he works at that company
The profit is you paying for the use of all that stuff the company provides to you.

If you honestly think you could make the same amount of money on your own then quit your job and start your own company/become an entrepreneur.

but where will new means of production come from if capitalists can't create new wealth to be seized?

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Workers made a contract to trade their labor for a specific amount of dollars an hour. They shouldn't demand for more retroactively or out of jealousy.

>being this cucked

Happy valentines day, OP

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>Taxation is theft
Eh, not exactly since you are getting government services like a police force to protect you in exchange for those taxes. But it is not voluntary so you do have somewhat of a point.

>Rent is theft
Huh? Not at all. Your voluntarily paying for a good(living space for yourself). How is that theft?

>Profits are unpaid wages
So companies are supposed to provide the equipment, resources(marketers to make sure your product actually has demand, accountants to allocate funds etc.) and brand name of the company to you 100% for free? What kind of selfish bs is this? Of course they're going to charge you for it. That's what profits are, payment for access to those things.

>Seize the means of productions
*Soviet Union Anthem Plays while 10 million+ people starve to death in gulags*

>buys back stock with profits and/or debt
How does this benefit the workers job security ?

>it's cucked to accept the terms of an agreement
then all of society might as well collapse because that's how niggers think

Money in your savings account is unpaid pizza delivery tips.

taxation is indeed theft, but the dumbass ancaps with an infantilized world view hope that you won't see past the platitudinous dysphemism and assume "all theft is bad" and therefore taxation is bad. once you realize not all theft is bad you completely disarm the moronic statement of "taxation is theft".

Alright then, quit your job, get a shovel, and hire yourself to dig holes and fill them in 8 hours a day. You'll get to keep all the profits of your labor for yourself, without some bourgeois capitalist exploiting you.

I mean there will be profits, right? You'll be doing labor, if your labor is what generates value then surely you'll profit by it. If you can't, then it isn't your labor that has intrinsic value, it's your employer making the infrastructure to extract value from it.

Profit typically goes to shareholders in the form of a divided.

>Workers made a contract to trade their labor for a specific amount of dollars an hour.

Ok? This doesn't contradict my statement.

> They shouldn't demand for more retroactively or out of jealousy

Says who? Workers should own everything they produce because they produced it with their own blood, sweat and tears.

commies don't understand the value of entrepreneurship.

fuck society and fuck you

>Workers should own everything they produce because they produced it with their own blood, sweat and tears.
see

Imagine being this retarded.

>Alright then, quit your job, get a shovel, and hire yourself to dig holes and fill them in 8 hours a day. You'll get to keep all the profits of your labor for yourself, without some bourgeois capitalist exploiting you.

Can't survive digging holes.

> I mean there will be profits, right? You'll be doing labor, if your labor is what generates value then surely you'll profit by it. If you can't, then it isn't your labor that has intrinsic value, it's your employer making the infrastructure to extract value from it.

Labour without access to the means of production (which capitalists own through violence from the state) is impotent, labour therefore is compelled to submit to the owners of the mop in order to survive.

How do? Let's say you are employed to make a seesaw you make it, someone else sells it, someone else shipped it, someone else advertised it and the person who "stole" simply had the job of organizing it all.

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>(which capitalists own through violence from the state)
source: my ass

this is why you won't win

This is pretty brainlet tier, labor only creates value if the product of that labor is useful. Labour theory of value is pretty dumb but it's not that obviously dumb.

Ok why don't you work at a co-op and tell me how much it grows and succeeds lmfao. CO-OPs DONT WORK BECAUSE YOU NEED PROFIT FOR INCENTIVE TO INNOVATE AND SUCCEED YOU FUCKING IGNORANT CHILD..

Have fun mopping floors faggot

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can you bring an example of what theft is not bad?

Private Property Rights require a state (with guns) to enforce.

>Profit is nothing more than unpaid wages.
Where does it say this in the bible

taxation

Yes? That's completely irrelevant. The way in which private property is enforced does not explain how individuals come to own that property in the first place. You're obviously implying it's obtained through ill-gotten means, but does that mean people can't simply make their own means of production from scratch? Do they not have the right to own it then?

When somebody builds a factory and creates jobs, he could have just used that money to buy a comfy house/consume it in some other ways.
People really take jobs for granted.

It's not brainlet at all.

At least when there is profit there are some wages.

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what is "risk" in business ownership?

profit equals future spending you dunce. fuck you

kys

Yes trickle down economics work goy

What is trickle down economics?

Profit is the wage of those that have made an investment, either with money or time, to build a business up. It's a different kind of service than labor, but still a crucial element to the creation and perpetuation of capitalism.

The true oppression comes from chrony capitalism, in which businesses influence the political environment so they benefit, most of the time at the expense of others.

Immigration is very damaging, as it increases the supply of labor, driving down the demand, and therefore driving down the value. The labor force is only a victim when companies manipulate and exploit the laws and standards of nations.

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trickle down economics doesn't work, but neither does communism. presenting false dichotomies does not help your case.

the question is how to prevent crony capitalism because it seems inevitable that large companies will use their power to influence the government.

So when they post losses do they get to fuck you in the ass?

Private property rights is the mechanism through which capitalists appropriate profits.

> The way in which private property is enforced does not explain how individuals come to own that property in the first place.

That's exactly what private property rights explain -- how someone gets to own something.

> You're obviously implying it's obtained through ill-gotten means, but does that mean people can't simply make their own means of production from scratch? Do they not have the right to own it then?

Private property rights are a specific set of rights which specify what a person can do with a property. Appropriation of profits is one of them.

>When somebody builds a factory and creates jobs,

The thing is that usually those those own factories are not the ones who built them and works in them.

You desrve nothing goyim. Go make some profits for shlomo and dont foget to come on SUNDAY (not staturday cuz its shabbat)

Gtfo, you're not a goddamn bounty hunter. You work for Applebees for fucks sake. If you think you should be making as much as the guy who invested money into the company and has more to lose it fails then you do... you truly are retarded. Fucking tired of these bullshit NEETfag posts. SAGE SAGE SAGE

Sage sage sage sage sage sage

You seem to be conflating some things. People being able to own what they made should go without saying. Pointing out how it's enforced is a complete non-sequitur.

For a start, lobbying should be outlawed, even for unions. Political influence should be done with information, not with coordinated donations and benefits. To allow such a thing is to put the interest of a group above the integrity of society.

Alright then, pay your workers shit, have them all quit, then you get to keep all the profits to yourself. I mean there will be profits, right?

You could just decline to work there you know.

If labor is impotent without the means of production then the workers aren't owed all the fruits of their labor as the means of production aren't theirs.

Eat shit commie

You've got the right attitude towards the state, but your idea of economics is rooted in ideology and not reality. In reality, sharing dulls production and wealth, and in turn dulls power. An anarcho communist "area" would fall rather quickly to any antagonist. The inverse would be capitalism, which seems to require a minimal state, and has been proven to produce more wealth and power than any other system. Don't fall for the bottom tier meme, be top tier.

>1 post OP into underaged leaf discussion

You people are retarded, sage this shit

"Risk" is an after the fact rationalization.

This is why I don't understand why so many "leftists" support open borders. Immigration hurts labor and only helps big business. American leftists are so retarded they aren't even leftists.

>If labor is impotent without the means of production then the workers aren't owed all the fruits of their labor as the means of production aren't theirs.

Well, yes, under capitalism that is the case.

Marxism is unironically for retards who can't fathom the arbitrariness of the market and how some things can be worth more than others, even if less labor is expended in their production. Adam Smith got it, Marx didn't.

Also bootstraps and look him in the eye with a firm handshake.

I sincerely hope someone can help you with that whole being a fucking idiot problem someday.

Not an argument.

Don't blame the horrendous state of the labor market on capitalism. It's because of leftists flooding their respective countries with cheap labor. It would only get worse with the system you want to enforce.

But they provide the wealth. AKA INVESTMENT to buy the material. to pay the wages. To build the infrastructure. Try running a business yourself. Maybe then you'd have some respect and appreciation for the intricacies, difficulties, complexities, and stresses involved in running a business.

before you bump a thread, mouse over the OP's ID
if it reads
>1pbtid
after a decent number of posts and looks like bait, it is
don't bump the thread

Because the left got suppressed by "lgbtwtfbbq" , muslims and other defenders of fringe groups. There is no such thing as left anymore.
Meanwhile capitalists of the world united, not the workers

Todays left are nothing but puppets of global capital.

Then there is nothing morally wrong with the owner's of the means of production reaping the rewards as the labor holds no natural value, only that which they contractually sell it for.

then vote for closed borders and white nationalism. overall wealth and also wealth inequality are at their best when labor is expensive ie not flooded with low IQ spics and nigs. this forces the greedy capitalists to pay a decent wage if they want to attract any employees.

This is true of all political positions right now desu

Thats what im voting for. Capitalism benefits the jew, the real work is always done by the goyim. Productivity still goes up buy wages do not follow.

>unpaid wages
>profits
Those are actually called payables and expenses

no, capitalism benefits everyone. cheap labor benefits the jew. stop conflating the two.

well no shit, that's why he hires people! He can't run it alone, and either way he already owns said "means of production" by investing in it. That's where workers come in, they do whatever work is required of them and in exchange they get paid for it.

I see what your problem is now. You think, that just because the owner isn't standing there at the assembly line doing monkey work all day, that means he isn't working at all. You think it is the workers who are solely responsible for all the labor in said businesses and hence why all the products made should belong to them.
You don't consider the massive investments the owner puts into owning, building, maintaining, and expanding the business as proper work.. He even has to pay each worker their salary. Every decision he makes affects the business as a whole, and if things don't work out he takes the biggest fall. He has that massive responsibility to shoulder, but you don't consider that "labor" at all.

The workers either produce items that get sold or encourage the sale of those items, they do not directly generate revenues on their own; revenues are only generated if the product sells or a service was performed, then costs to produce those items or perform those services (which includes labor and materials) is deducted from that product’s value. Commies are fucking retarded, labor directly generates nothing other than potential value and guaranteed expenses

>Workers should own everything they produce because they produced it with their own blood, sweat and tears.
Except for producing the raw resources needed to make the product, the resources to make the machinery, or the effort involved in managing every aspect of production, the logistics of distribution, etc etc.
A worker banging rocks together is not a product made; it comprises of every aspect of production, including the leadership.
One guy tried to make his own BLT sandwich, and it ended up costing him $1500 in raw resources.

Profit is equal to income-expenses.

If I am a sole proprietor who works alone, am I exploiting myself if I deploy my capital to make something that someone wants while making more income than it costs me to produce a product?

AKTSHUALLY workers produced items using materials supplied to them by the owner, who coincidentally pays for both, crazy right? You think these people bring shit from home or workplace materials are fucking free?

The difference between rent and taxation is coercion you braindead commie. It's so natural to you "people" you fail to recognize it.

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>the only thing that imparts value is labor
This is what Marxists actually believe.

No it actually isn't, but most of the people posting in these threads don't even have a wikipedia article understanding of karl marx

Their heads would split if they looked at an income statement, god forbid a balance sheet

commies in this thread have posted corroborating the post u quoted

No, it is not. Risk comes up front when a producer decides to produce something that he thinks other people will want, but the producer is not sure if others will buy his product.

>every individual laborer starts their own company
>operates on the same logic
>charges an hourly tariff, maintenance, administration, "necessary" profit, upkeep, overhead, marketing, write offs, calamity fund, bonuses.

See how you like a taste of your own shit.

>commies

There's no real commies in this thread desu, this is just one of the easiest bait posts on Jow Forums

lmao

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