What's so bad about UBI? Wouldn't it be a good thing to redistribute the wealth fairly?

>If what technophiles claim about automation is true
it isn't

>UBI will be a necessity in 15 years.
it's a necessity now. or have you not noticed all the poor and homeless that exist in the richest nations in the history of the world?

UBI would eliminate the need to work. Perhaps force employers to pay a living wage.

everyone getting it isn't fair, if you contribute more to society you get more in return and if you contribute nothing, you get nothing, thats fair

Wut? UBI is sold on the fact that it's not redistribution. Everyone would get the same $1k or whatever it is a month from the govt, doesn't matter whether it's some poor single mom or Bill Gates.

If you want wealth redistribution, you should be advocating for something else.

Just because you're alive doesn't mean you deserve anything

>redistribute wealth fairly
What is fair about taking money from someone who earned it by force and giving it to someone who didn't? The person with less money has less because of their choices in life. In the west we all have the same opportunities. Choices like: study hard. Think about your future. Live within your means. Get a STEM degree, not a BA. Learn how to manage a budget. Learn about investing. But the simplest decision which most poor people fail to make is "stop making excuses".

where is your sense of generosity? it should be 3 minimum.

>the literal redistributing of wealth is not wealth redistribution

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Nothing's bad about it, unless you're rich.

With that absolute unit as the party leader then fuck yes cunt

The UBI is a disincentive to work which would create a reduction in supply, which will lead to inflation. The value of the dollar will drop to the point where the UBI becomes the equivalent of having no income, and then we're back to square one, only everyone is now more poor.

Dependance is bad

>work hard
>have 0 fun
>earn a million dollars to give to your children
>the state takes it
the state gives it to the children of someone who has never had a job
>they rape and murder your children with all the energy they have from the food you bought them

so fair

Human are lazy egoistic and lame en masse. So, no one will work for (((your))) (((UBI))) and (((you))) will starve. Productive people are like 10-15% from all of us.

I've rethought my stance. They don't deserve the metal it would take. Let's just toss them into a chasm.

How do you incentivize innovation? Why work your ass off and get a huge % of your earnings stolen when you can make a livable amount by doing nothing.

Seething wagies that are butthurt are the only people in opposition.

NEET master race, can't wait to get autismbux AND UBI just to rub it in the faces of ragie wagies

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So if I’m getting enough money to survive for free, why should I do anything for the rest of my life?

Because why create leeches when you can just kill them all and keep your money?

dude what? if you're bill gates and teh government takes 3 billion from you in taxes, then gives you back 12k how is that not redistribution, you might as well have not gotten anything back, because its so near 0 to him

employers dont need to pay a living wage under UBI. that's actually part of the point. it removes the threat of survival from the labor/job market, creating a fair market.

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Is this the theme for the shills tonight?

Please die, nigger

>universal basic income
>first generation of recievers are normal people
>some of them spend the money responsibility
>some of them do not
>their children watch them
>their children come to believe money comes from the state, not hard work
>they teach their children this as well
>2 generations later you have a permanent underclass/slave class that doesn't even understand the basic value of money
>one day someone points out that this isnt good or how things should be
>someone starts a rebellion
>basic income gets turned off
>people realize they are helpless without basic income
>rebellion crushed
>lol whats wrong with this?

Nothing goy, nothing at all.

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This but unironically
Fuck you OP

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you lost me at ~slave~
what part of working long hours for low pay in work you would never choose of your own free will (if not for the threat of death) is not slavery?

now we're getting in to the snek economics of fuel for transport, and in the event you don't have a chasm near by you could always use helicopters but its probably more expensive resource wise than 3 bullets

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I'm willing to donate some free brass jacketed lead to anyone who believes they have a "right" to anything that I have fairly produced by my own intellect and effort.

why you asking me? that shits on you.

(((You))) can always stop work in city and go to village to grow (((your))) own food and not starve to death.

What is the income tax and why should it be repealed?

Nay, just chop them with machete.

time to power australia.

quit your oxygen dependence.

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It would prevent capitalism from collapsing delaying the revolution

>Learn how to...

what if the real problem is that men are not being properly taught?

timeshighereducation.com/blog/its-no-surprise-if-men-decide-university-isnt-them

>I don't know what communism is

>Automatically receive extra $1000 a month
>Shlomo immediately raises your rent by $1000 (it wouldn't just be rent going up, but every good/service will be trying to get a piece of what you've got, and you've got it so you'll spend it)

It's called supply and demand. You have a supply of money, (((they))) demand it. The rich want nothing more than your taxes to be raised only for it to go right into your pockets, because their scheming ways will make it go right from your pockets into theirs. You will never win against the rich unless we have a fascist system. Place regulations on how much people can charge for necessities, THEN start dishing out "free" money. We wouldn't even need it at that point, we're struggling because of (((their))) schemes. Fascist economic policies would put a stop to that.

It's not fucking sustainable. Take Yang's plan - $12K a year for everyone over 18 in the US. That's 235 million people. That's $2.8T per year, JUST for UBI. That's not including all the pre-existing programs, most of which would still be required to continue existing, or any of the rest of our ~$3T annual budget

What's with the retards in this thread who don't even look into Yangs plan and say it's Communism? He proposes taxing automation jobs because right now those jobs don't pay taxes. Look it up. Even Bill Gates want's to tax robots.

The problem with UBI is that it would also go to the loathed and dreaded childish white stereotype of all brown people:

youtube.com/watch?v=JT2LSB1Bz2o

UBI would only be okay to white supremacists if it only went to the childish white stereotype of pure white people.

White people are insanely fucking childish, you see.

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>rentier capitalism is bad
>so give up
if you have the voting power to make UBI a thing you have the voting power to end rentier capitalism

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please be a troll, no one can be that stupid
though UBI is a stupid idea

>taxing robots is communism

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>buying into technocrat silicon valley/DC bullshit demagoguery.
This is the kind of shit that morons kneejerk vote on because it envokes an emotion.

These threads are so fucking useless. "Let's debate a supposed solution to the narrative that a problem needing solving may exist or may come to exist if the market (which always has massive shifts) will somehow become unavailable to mass portions of individuals.

>Why should income tax be repealed
It was created in 1913, only income tax was temporarily implemented for the civil war. The federal reserve was also created that year by (((coincidence))). Our country was fine before the giant burden of social security, non whites on welfare, bullshit wars in the middle east, and "raising the deficit ceiling" bullshit.

>Wouldn't it be a good thing to redistribute the wealth fairly?
You are a retard, and so is everyone else in this thread.
UBI doesn't "redistribute wealth", it establishes a minimum basic income for everyone, employed or not. You can still start a business of your own or get a job to go beyond what UBI offers.

We don't know if it works for the time being, because most experiments are really biased and are being interfered with, but it is inevitable. Jobs are being lost more than they are being created. Automation is coming, and that should be a good thing, not a bad thing.

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like I said "stupidity" and lack of pedagogy is indistinguishable as the outcome is the same, you can't think

why do we need to keep a large population that consumes more than they produce?

>Jobs are being lost more than they are being created. Automation is coming, and that should be a good thing, not a bad thing.

This. Mass automation is inevitable, UBI will NEED to be implemented at some point if we want to progress anyways.

>theres no problem
oh ok.
guess the homeless just like the stars.
guess the poor just like being thin.
guess all those people working multiple low wage jobs for shit wages love moving boxes and heating up potatoes.

Because it's inevitable with technology advancing and it will work if we plan ahead to prepare for it.

Tell that to welfare niggers, nigger.

thispersondoesnotexist.com/
the above site contains photographs created by neural networks, the people do not exist

The attached webm contains images created by a neural network, nobody drew any of them.

Video game music created by neural networks
youtube.com/watch?v=UWxfnNXlVy8

Here we have a neural network beating some of the top starcraft 2 players at starcraft. It is not using normal ai tricks that involve cheating, it can only see what a player could see, and its apm are actually overly limited for the sake of fairness, and it has less apm than even an average player, its winning entirely based on decision making it self-learned.
youtube.com/watch?v=cUTMhmVh1qs

A debating AI is loses, for now, but is formulating its own arguments, and employing calculated lies and falacies (which it is fully aware of) to try and win;
futurism.com/ibm-debate-ai

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giving a men a fish, will feed him for a day, teach him how to fish...

that's one of the inherent flaws with UBI. Don't get me wrong, there are serious problems in society. However, you will only exacerbate them with UBI, case in point:

youtube.com/watch?v=0Z760XNy4VM

>What's so bad about UBI?
Paying for it. Also, it entices laziness. And laziness is fatal.
The reason children are made to go to school isn't to make them more intelligent. It's to put them into a controlled place and give them something to do because people with nothing to do always get into trouble somehow.
Idle hands are George Soros' playthings.

the automation doomsday argument for UBI really needs to fuck off.

we have a fuckton of wealth inequality problems right now.

>Paying for it.
money costs nothing to produce.
try again.

Jesus, why do you retards all come in at once? Don't you think you're making it kind of obvious? No one here sympathizes with you lazy fucks.

Oh dear.
Yeah. Let's burn the world down because we all hate working!

Fucking kek. Couldn't have said it better myself.

The thing with automation is we have no fucking idea what will come of it. The most likely scenario is mass unemployment, but there is still the possibility there will be more jobs created than destroyed, obvious blue collar shit will be gone. For the first few years of the 2020s it'll be pretty dicey, but any predictions beyond 2030 aren't for certain.

>people hate working
exposing yourself as a wagie.
people love working when they love their work.

Oxygen is free

So are you voting for Andrew Jang on next election?
He was on Joe Rogan podcast recently.

automation is one of the mechanisms that got us in the bind we are currently in, technological advances are always a double edged sword. Just look at the original hopes for the internet, and the algorithmic fueled internet balkanisation we got in reality

I'm not a.. what? Wagie? Are you 3 years old? Do you say "janny" and "mommy" a lot too? Fucking faggot.
No, I make my money on my own. But a UBI would incentivize people to work less, causing more people to exist without things to occupy their time, causing a massive increase in crime.

Not how money works.
Don't try again.
Get out of your mom's basement and get a job.

I know you're just shit posting Australia but if you give everyone a baseline amount of money you make that amount more redundant. I would bet inflation would shoot up fast. Say you could rent a place for 600 now but with Ubi it would be much more.

UBI already failed in Finnland. It didn't motivate more people to work.
Also with UBI be prepared for a massive price increase for basic cost of living. Which will eliminate any reliefs UBI might promise.
Not to mention it will be expensive as fuck.

Cutting income tax and reducing cost of labor (especially for small companies) is the far better way.
People who actually contribute to the state will be rewarded and the generation of jobs will increase.

What bind?

A population that does not consume is a population that doesn't engage in economic activities. No spending = bad.

Paying a welfare nigger a handout is cheaper than letting him destroy property, clog up the justice system and then pay to have him incarcerated.

While we don't have a definitive answer, there has been plenty of changes. These days, you need much more education to enter the workforce compared to just having a firm handshake and a good attitude 50 years ago.
30 years ago, you would have a call center with plenty of ladies manning the phones and routing calls. These days, it's done by computers.
30 years ago, people would have to open stores in order to sell their shit or print out ads in magazines. These days, you can all put it online or on Amazon.
60 years ago, you could get a job as a number cruncher. These days, you can use a computer and a spreadsheet.
30-40 years ago, you would have to employ people to assemble cars. These days, cars can be assembled much more easily with computer aided systems.

Jobs are still available, but it's much harder to get a job with a living wage than a few decades ago. Having some form of UBI in the future would mean people wouldn't flock to cities and cramming themselves into 2500$ studio apartments just to put food on the table, that alone sounds pretty good.

>free things exist
youre fucking up your argument libsnek.
now i get to say that UBI is free so it's not a dependence.

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Highly dysgenic and will inevitably lead to a 2 class society.

As it will be in the future, it was at the birth of Man
There are only four things certain since Social Progress began.
That the Dog returns to his Vomit and the Sow returns to her Mire,
And the burnt Fool's bandaged finger goes wabbling back to the Fire;

And that after this is accomplished, and the brave new world begins
When all men are paid for existing and no man must pay for his sins,
As surely as Water will wet us, as surely as Fire will burn,
The Gods of the Copybook Headings with terror and slaughter return!

the government creates money.
literally how money works.

>It didn't motivate people to work
I thought the point was to live without working. What the fuck were they thinking?

were not close is the problem. There is energy solutions that must be solved before that would be possible.

The amount of work per capita to sustain society is decreasing. The last time this happened was the agricultural revolution where everyone just went from trying to survive all the time to being able to work less and still survive.

The problem is during this period people made goods and products and they traded them, and money was just an intermediary.

Now most work is compensated not by the product of your work, but your labor is being bought by the wage labor system, so as productivity increases, working hours do not decrease, instead all the extra profit goes to the top.

The normal answer to the productivity question would be for everyone to simply work fewer hours, but get the same pay, which would be effectively the same as what we did in the past when technology reduced labor per capita demands of society. This is what socialism would do, but capitalism doesnt want to do this, so the only way to sustain it is to implement UBI

>Harder to get a living wage
Wages haven't been up in America since the 70s. The value of the dollars has gone down and probably will never be up again. In California we've been told 15$ an hour would be a living wage and it needed to be mandatory but in the end my wages haven't gone up and now I'm only so much above the actual minimum wage per hour. Housing here is pipe dream, and I'd rather be fucking dead than visit LA again. Never trust anyone who says they'll fight for a living wage or a living payment.

>UBI already failed in Finnland. It didn't motivate more people to work.
It didn't. The "experiment" was flawed from the get go. They paid UBI money to UNEMPLOYED PEOPLE! The point of UBI is to pay a basic income to everybody. They should have picked a random number of people from all walks of life, not just welfare recipients. And yes, UBI is not supposed to motivate people to work, it's supposed to provide a valuable safety net.

Like I said, UBI is not ready for today, but it will become a necessity in the future. Having one Jeff Bezos employ 200000 people who serve a whole country of hundreds of millions means is not sustainable. Jobs are disappearing. THIS SHOULD BE A GOOD THING.

Functionally we already life in a mouse utopia in the west

Except that's wrong. On average around the entire globe the middle class is still growing and people on average are only getting richer with time. There is no discernible groups who are losing wealth with time as this fairy tale suggests while it goes to the ultra rich.

>UBI already failed in Finnland
fake news
that "U"BI program was not even a universal sampling. it was people who were already on unemployment.
of all the UBI pilot tests to point at you chose the one that was constructed with complete disregard for the main concepts of UBI.

>oey vey goyim jobs are being automated you cant be employed anymore because robots are cheaper
>oey vey goyim we also need to import more refugees to do the jobs you dont want to do
>dont worry, we promise we will pay you a basic income even though we arent willing to pay you a living wage heeheehee

It's a fucking scam/false hope at best, a dystopian social engineering scheme at worst. It's also a key step is moving towards a completely centralized digital economy, and if the all the deplatforming, censorship, and outright accusing people of being literal nazis for not toeing the official line hasn't demonstrated enough proof to you that what we need is a DECENTRALIZATION of ALL THE THINGS rather than hyper-centralization, I have nothing more to say to you.

Because what's the point of working if everyone gets neetbux

your not wrong user, I don't have a solution either and acknowledging that is the only way to find one

people.uncw.edu/kozloffm/glubb.pdf

>A population that does not consume is a population that doesn't engage in economic activities. No spending = bad
a population that does not produce is a population that doesn't engage in economic activities. no production of goods and services = bad

I dunno I would probably just play vidya all day like when during the summer when I was in high school. Probably blow my brains out when I realize I'm still living a shit life even without working.

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before the fall these people could have made your arguemnt as well

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_Bronze_Age_collapse

youtube.com/watch?v=bRcu-ysocX4

>GAS THE JEWS
>DISTRIBUTE THEIR WEALTH
didn't even mean to caps but it works