What did Jesus mean by this?

forums.catholic.com/t/gospel-of-matthew-10-34-and-luke-12-49/230498

family is part of the material realm
like i said, it was probably presented differently by jesus himself, but strong attachments to material things and people often distract a person from seeking beyond this life and realm
the message is to love the soul, not the physical manifestation

>love something vague, ill defined, and which lacks any form of evidence over your own familial bonds
Your mother and father are not inanimate material objects. They're the ones that gave you life. You can claim God did instead but you'd have to demonstrate it. So ideology takes precedence; what practical purpose does this position have?

he meant that if you don't hate your father for circumciszing your baby penis then you're evil and need to fuck off

For Luke 12
Start at Micah 6:9 and read through to Micah 7:20
Pay attention to Micah 7:6

For Luke 14:26 Hate should be read as love less

I think it means looking for any meaning in any book of god is an indication that you are a Man Who Has Been Kicked In The Head By A Mule As A Child..

>For Luke 14:26 Hate should be read as love less
Fair enough, but the question is why?

my mother and father are simply playing the role of my mother and father in this lifetime
we may have had other relationships in other lives where we were enemies or something else
i love their souls as i love yours, but their body is just a vessel needed to experience this realm

jesus often said "he who has ears to hear, let him hear" regarding the symbolism of his words
somebody who is ready and willing to realize that there is so much more than this physical reality will listen, others will not

>5 Put no trust in a neighbor, have no confidence in a friend; guard the doors of your mouth from her who lies in your bosom;
>6 for the son treats the father with contempt, the daughter rises up against her mother, the daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; a man’s enemies are the men of his own house.
>7 But as for me, I will look to the Lord, I will wait for the God of my salvation; my God will hear me.

So in other words, unquestioningly trust your religion and don't trust your own family, neighbors, and race?

>he who has ears to hear, let him hear
This is fishing for those who are capable of being brainwashed. You're making a metaphysical argument, there really is no point arguing against that sort of thing. I'm approaching this from a practical perspective. It seems to me like these verses are typical of cult ideologies. What usefulness is there to trusting your religion more than your own family and community? I don't want to hear
>muh God
>muh Jesus
>muh soul
>muh material world
These are metaphysical claims and arguments which cannot be proven nor disproven.

you must understand something - if you use "default" type of logic then i assume as you use english your default type is protestant logic - you tring to understand Roman Catholicism without participation - it can't be done - moreover nothing can be fully understand if you do not throw away what you learnt before because foundations are framework

He might be talking about the schism he was creating by speaking against the dogma of his time.

Do you even understand that logic is mathematical at its foundation? You're a shitskin aren't you? Is that why you're hiding your flag, have atrocious grammar, and are labeling my words as "protestant logic"?

Why is this a good thing?

I didn't say that it was. Why are you so touchy?

I didn't say you said it was. I was asking you a question trying to get your thoughts on it.

Jesus means exactly what he says
You're looking for a conflict within the scriptures, or within the words of God, and you will never find any

When antichrist appears, claiming to be Christ, the division within families will grow even greater

>When antichrist appears, claiming to be Christ, the division within families will grow even greater
Wouldn't he be doing just what Jesus said he came to do himself?

“What does Christianity mean today? National Socialism is a religion. All we lack is a religious genius capable of uprooting outmoded religious practices and putting new ones in their place. We lack traditions and ritual. One day soon National Socialism will be the religion of all Germans. My Party is my church, and I believe I serve the Lord best if I do his will, and liberate my oppressed people from the fetters of slavery. That is my gospel.”

And here it is - "mathematical foundation" -so you are saying that mathematics is your religion - mathematics is another system of understanding the world. Simply in your understanding mathematic is equal or even broader than the religion. Sorry but it isn't.

Fair enough, my perspective might not be worth much since I'm not a Christian but I think this is part of psychological warfare for the schism. He needs them to commit to the very real possibility of street fights with neighbours or even family.

you asked what it meant, i told you what i believe it means

back to the buddhist teachings, they say "life is suffering" and through suffering, we all eventually seek god or at least the answers to deep philosophical questions that cannot be explained by logic
you will too in time, even if it's in another hundred lives

I don't understand the question

Some people will understand that Satan is masquerading as Jesus, convincingly
Some will not, and will jubilantly worship him and do his work (be with child, as the scriptures say)

this is the final division of this flesh age, and those who worship the false christ will pray for the mountains to fall on them

Never question Jesus. He knew the future.

>so you are saying that mathematics is your religion
No, I'm not. But to use your own tactic against you: this is you using shitskin logic. Show your flag or gtfo nigger.

That makes sense.

>"life is suffering" and through suffering, we all eventually seek god
This is what is called a 'slave morality'.

Read the verses in OP. Jesus said he came to cause division.

and I'm telling that that division is not limited to some people believing in him, and some not believing in him

it will express itself a final, terrible time, as some people choose to believe the scriptures as they are written, that antichrist appears first, and some people choose to believe that everything will magically work out just because they believe in happy things

This is what Jesus agonized about in the garden, not his death and ressurrection, but what he knew would happen when he drew the line in the sand: the misery of all those who fall on the wrong side of that line

you are just hypocrite, at some point you can't understand something else if you don't understand yourself. Anyway if you read further you would know that there will be a fight between good and evil and Jesus Christ prepare his followers before it happens by saying what to do in conflits i.e. truth is priceless and you need follow it

I think I see what you mean. When Jesus says
>Do you think that I have come to give peace on earth? No, I tell you, but rather division
He means that when he returns he only brings peace to those who have accepted salvation (in the form of belief)?

This is why I quoted Luke 14 too. Because it seems to me that these verses demonstrate the scripture's position of primacy of ideology over kinship and human bonds.

When Jesus returns he will slay the kikes and sinners with holy justice. That’s what it means.

the primacy of Jesus, not ideology
he doesn't have an ideology, he's just God, and he couldn't stop being perfect or all powerful

the victory over Satan at the cross was a legal victory, because it was legal accusations that Satan was using against God's children
it was never necessary for God to secure the power to do whatever he wanted to

he will not slay them but their souls will go to hell

The fire was the fire of the Spirit. Jesus did not intend for people to sit idly and let life pass them by ... rather to take an active role in heir faith and spread it. Inspiration.
Re: family. It meant do not be in love with your life. Never let your connections prevent you from making the decisions you need to make to take up you calling ... even your family. Do not live your life for another man (or woman).

Hmm. If that's true then why did a script kiddie have to use a script to get that get?

>the primacy of Jesus, not ideology
Jesus is the main archetype within that ideology. You're making a metaphysical argument.

>Don't love your life but your next one believe in me goyim don't collectivize

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>a Jewish religion
Have you ever even talked to a jew you slimy cunt?

Looks like I'm talking to one right now. How's it going (((Christfag)))? You're denying that Jesus was a Jew? You're denying that the Jews wrote the Bible? You're denying that the entire moral system set forth in it is Jewish? Heh. Nice fucking try Shlomo. Let's at least see that famous pilpul of yours, because it seems you have no argument.

Jesus is God, not an archetype, and there is no metaphysical element to him

in fact, Jesus's teaching is known above all else for having no meta-elements at all. He never talks 'about' anything, he only explains and commands and promises, and takes action.

>hurrr script kiddies
Even ignoring the changes to 4chans API, you think there was ONE guy who was running a script for that get?

>Jesus is not an archetype
>Jesus's teaching is known above all else for having no meta-elements at all
Clearly you haven't read Jung or even the Bible itself. Or any book at all. Or you're just willfully blind. Your argument is based on metaphysics once you start talking about God and Satan, come up with something new for once.

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No, obviously not. There were many people with scripts on that get, and a lot of them were Christcucks. Still a scripted get, obviously.

Roman Catolicism is not Jewish religion. Remember and don't spread misinformation.
The quote from post number one is evidance.

>Hmm. If that's true then why did a script kiddie have to use a script to get that get?

because Christianity is a group working together to slave evil

>Luke 12
His Gospel is divisive and "hateful" to sinners.

>Luke 14
If you try to earn salvation by any way but Jesus' works for you (Hebrews 10:10-12, Acts 16:31), then you cannot be saved (especially not by your own works (Titus 3:5))

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Haha thinks there's only one logic, fucking scrub. Logic is deriving from axioms. The axioms are arbitrary.

As far as the Bible goes, I already explained that Jesus' teaching were all highly practical and real, never metaphysical at all. He always said SPECIFICALLY what was true, and used stories (also not metaphysical) to explain things that weren't appropriate for his entire audience
If you don't believe God and Satan are real, that's your business, but I would prefer that you say 'they aren't real,' instead of assuming I'm talking about non-literal things
I believe they are real people

Contemporary English Version
You cannot be my disciple, unless you love me more than you love your father and mother, your wife and children, and your brothers and sisters. You cannot follow me unless you love me more than you love your own life.

clearly you don't understand that protestants claim about their interpretation of bilble and Roman Catholicism attitude towards the The Holy Bible. Roman Catholicism tell that what was happened in The Holy Bible was happened truly. Most of Protestants claim that it is justa a metaphor

Ok, you're right. I should have stated that reply differently. But my main point stands: What is "Roman Catholic logic"? What does its system look like? What are its axioms? There's a difference between an actual type of logic, and applying arbitrary labels to your ideology to make it seem logical.

Show me logic that makes 1 + 1 = 3
There is objective and subjective

"3" is a symbol that stands for what we usually think of as number 2. There.

Prove 1 + 1 = 2
>protip: you can't

that is why Roman Catholic have objective logic. Jewish have subjective - save goy only if you will have sth not bad

of course you can but only if you are using mathematical principles that is why principles are crucial

>I believe they are real people
Elaborate.

Also, what is practical about putting religion first, over family?

>of course you can
Doesn't Gödel say you can't?

Genesis could be considered the axiom.
You are so ignorant that you continually fail to understand that mankind is corruptible, while wisdom and reason lay in the eternal. As you live on, you'll see what is meant in regards to the family, when the ignorance you pass to your children and other people, will make you hate them and vice-versa.
PS: Your understanding of Christianity is shallow and arrogant. In your replies you seek no answers but merely continue to project your own shortcomings and insecurities.

Whatever you want it to mean, thats the cool thing about the Jewish practice of pilpul and worshipping a yid on a stick, make it up as you go along and then say its been like that forever.

>subjective bullshit
Yeah nice point you're geniuses woah

Either explain the argument saying why or stop throwing names around like they mean anything

Then explain it to me. Yes, I have my own biases like everyone else. But I want to learn.
>mankind is corruptible
I know this. But this doesn't answer my question. What do you consider 'eternal'? Your entire reply is basically ad hominem, it doesn't actually provide an answer. Why is religion and ideology held to be more important to Jesus than genetic ties?

Makes sense.

>Isn't aware of the Incompleteness Theorems
Yeah because I totally want to get into that in a thread about religion and derail my own thread, right? Read a book abo.

I didnt say I wasnt aware of it. The fact you cant condense the relevant points to an explanation for your argument yet seek to hide behind its authority means you didnt really understand it at all.
>derail
Is this reddit, faggot? You're the one that cited it to begin with. But an explanation as to how it actually relates, thats too far? Fucking kek, I bet you love the fact this place is anonymous, idiot

>Wants me to spoon feed him Gödel because he's too lazy to research it on his own
lmao. fucking abos. when will they learn.

Yeah nice cope faggot, you can't condense the points because you have no clue what you're talking about
kek

I won't because this thread has nothing to do with it. The points are condensed on a multitude of pages on the net and in a variety of books. You're just incapable of researching and learning things on your own because you're a low IQ shitskinned abo. Besides, the burden of proof is on you to begin with. You claimed you could prove 1 + 1 = 2. Go for it, if you're going to derail, let's see your proof. Abo.

You cited something but refused to explain the argument even in its simplicity. All I stated was the objective fact that 1 + 1 = 2. You can throw as much of your subjective bullshit as you want, at the end of the day its subjective. And the burden of proof is on you considering you're the one citing something but refusing to actually explain it in context yet still thinking you have any sort of respectable opinion.

>objective fact
But it's not an objective fact. It's based on axioms.
>your subjective bullshit
You don't even know what you're talking about. Begging me to explain something to you makes you a low IQ pleb. The information is widely available. Learn how to read abo. I asked you to prove 1 + 1 = 2. You haven't demonstrated that you can. And I stated why you can't. The burden of proof is on you, abo.

This can be seen clearly at the point when the jews choose to free barabas over Jesus.
jews turned against each other choosing to free a criminal over the Son of God.
This is but one instant of the division Jesus caused between those who would support a criminal, and those who would risk even death to follow and support Him.

You got any more silly questions?

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It's an objective fact. Its objectively verifiable which makes it objective. 1 + 1 always = 2. Any exceptions are not actually exceptions because they dont take into account the entire system which relies on objective logic.

>You dont even know what you're talking about
You're the one citing arguments without being able to actually explain them even in the most basic form, retard. You're a dunce.

1 is a unit of measurement. It refers to an individual entity. 2 is a unit of measurement that refers to two individual entities. If you have one unit and another unit, that makes two units. This is objective fact. This entire argument would be a waste of time if you were trolling as someone certainly would have to be to reject 1+1=2, but I believe you're sincere due to your ego. Faggot.

So explain the argument, condense the argument to actually support your own, faggot. Telling people to go read textbooks means you actually have no argument yourself, you dont understand the logic of it, you dont know shit beyond a few names. Total faggot. kek

>Actually arguing that 1+1 doesnt = 2
kek, 10/10 waste of time baitpost
first time on 4ch I actually felt like I've wasted my life
wew

Give me the Book and verse you are quoting. Don' t have the entire Bible memorized.

Principia Mathematica by Whitehead and Russell dedicates hundreds of pages to proving 1 + 1 = 2. Gödel would later criticize PM and his incompleteness theorems showed that for any proposed set of axioms either the system must be inconsistent or there will be things you cannot prove from them. I'm not arguing 1 + 1 does not equal 2. I'm saying there can be no consistent set of axioms that can prove everything about arithmetic. This is the last (You) you're getting, make a thread on if you want to discuss this further. But you won't, because you're not interested in learning, you're interested in baiting. Such is the life of an abo.

1+1=2 has not been mathematically proven. It is an axiomatic truth. One person attempted doing a proof of that resulting in over 400 pages of work and still didnt sufficient prove it. 1+1=2 is simply arbitrary and can have any substitution in place as long as everything changes along with it logically. You should probably look this stuff up before showing how retarded you are. And math student in college is already well aware of this.

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>Luke 14:26
The clue is in Luke 14:33 when Jesus says:
“In the same way, any of you who does not give up everything he has cannot be my disciple.”

It’s about what we must be prepared to do to follow Jesus.

It's like if one knows their parents will disown you if you are gay. They have a decision.

At that time people's families could very well disown them for following a man who was not in line with the Pharisees, which would make the family choose between their child or the Synagogue and the child between his Parents or Jesus.

yes
people betray each other all the time

God is more important that your mum.

>I'm saying there can be no consistent set of axioms that can prove everything about arithmetic.
Nice shift of the goalpost there faggot, you're not responding anymore because your bluff got called and all you have done is said "they proved it and they had problems with it" without being able to actually explain the logic that goes with that even in a condensed form. You cant condense it because you dont understand it. Yet you try to beat people over the head with it because of its authoritative positioning.
>pulling me to /sci/
Want to feel like you're on home turf or something faggot? The discussion is within the scope of OP considering its led here to begin with. Stop running away, and actually explain the logic you're citing, or forever be known as the faggot that couldnt because he doesnt understand. Until thread 404s. You faggot.

Nothing but subjective bullshit.
Its retarded philosophy with no real world grounding, yes of course you can create your own logical system, but its not reflected in reality because reality has an objectively verifiable logic that whilst perfect is not perfectly understood due to the limitations of our cognitive ability and conceptual linguistic range. What is your point? That subjectivity exists? Wow, fucking REVELATION there

Micah 7, look at the post I'm replying to.

I guess I haven't explicitly stated this. I don't think this is a good thing for society. I hold familial ties to be extremely important, and much more so than any arbitrary philosophy. I'm arguing that these verses demonstrate a cult-like mentality, one necessary if the religion is to survive in its early stages.

op is a jew
jews can't argue against Orthodox Christians
this is why op will not address any of my posts itt

>Luke 49: Christ said
I came to send fire upon the Earth, and how I wish it were already kindled!

thank you, goyim

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Take a closer look at the verses I posted. Jesus is talking about division within families.

Religion never betrays people?

Ok so a war is going on and god says:

Mic 7:2 The lovingly-committed one has perished from the earth, and there is no one straight among men. All of them lie in wait for blood, everyone hunts his brother with a net.
Mic 7:3 Both hands are on the evil, to do it well. The prince asks for gifts, the judge seeks a bribe, and the great man speaks the desire of his being. And they weave it together.
Mic 7:4 The best of them is like a prickly plant, the most straight is sharper than a thorn hedge. The day of your watchman and your punishment has come, now is their confusion.

So yeah he is saying trust no one but God right now. Now being the time that this is going on. He is telling Isreal in the book of Micah basically 3 things
1) There is a judgment against the nations and their leaders
2) there will be a Restoration of Zion
3) God's lawsuit against Israel and expression of hope for the future.

Luke is pointing back to this.
Jesus came for the lost tribes of Isreal and to get everyone back on track. That was not going to be without strife for his followers or himself. Paul is refering back to the time of Micah and how it worked out in the end because the puit their faith in God.

First bit means he wants you to pursue good and stop evil/wrong. Since there are such people in every family your duty is to stop them and show them the wrongs which will lead to fights and thus division.

The second falls in line with the general doctrine of christianity to reject anything material. The bible is all about how this life is deceptive and tempting, a source of evil we should reject for the sake of the spirit. Attachement to this is bad. Now jesus disciples had to go a step further as people are also what binds you. Which father isnt willing to work his ass off under satan even to provide for his family falling ultimately into materialism.

>Jesus came for the lost tribes of Isreal
So Jesus came only for the Jews. I guess that explains why he never preached to them. Thanks for proving my secondary point that Christianity is a Jewish religion.
>Everything will turn out well if you just believe in what we tell you to believe. Disregard family, goyim, it worked before!
Yeah, no.

Why he never preached to the gentiles, that is.

division within families is also real - it has been real since families have existed
what is your point?

religious institutions betray people
can you name an instance when Jesus betrayed his disciples or followers?

I don't really care about the holocaust.
Seen within the historical period and context within which it took place it becomes utterly inconsequential. Civilians in ww2 were not only considered legitimate targets by all sides, they were systematically targeted and even the sole objectives of major air raids.
Who is to objectively say that a family burned alive in Dresden or Tokyo suffered less
than a family of jews during the holocaust?
The holocaust -real or no- is trivial and not worthy of discussion.

It's pretty clear.

>Luke 12:49-53
He came to separate the wheat from the chaff, the sheep from the goats, the believers from the unbelievers.
This caused, and still causes, division between even close relatives and friends.

>Luke 14:25-26
Here Christ is stating that if anyone puts anything in their lives before Him, then they are not worthy of being His disciple as He is the Son of God.
He uses family here to make this point as the vast majority of people put their family before all else.
Here Christ is stating the importance of following Him and believing in Him.

>I guess I haven't explicitly stated this. I don't think this is a good thing for society. I hold familial ties to be extremely important, and much more so than any arbitrary philosophy. I'm arguing that these verses demonstrate a cult-like mentality, one necessary if the religion is to survive in its early stages.
You say that now because you live a cushy life in the West in an easy age.
In that time out of 12 tribes, 10 had been physically take by force out of thier homeland never to return.
A foreign power (the Edomites) had over taken Judea and Isreal and co-opted the religion, all the homes, temples and government and relegated whatever natives remained to basically chattel. The Judeans could never fight back against the Edomites because the Edomites had the backing of Rome.

So the original Judean Isrealites that remained in the area played along to get along, so many peoples parents and brothers and sister would never have stepped out of line in fear of persecution and or crucifixion. So yes going against the Phrasiees would have put one at mortal danger. Jesus is telling them just like the whole world was against Isreal at the time of Micah so will the whole world be against you if you follow me. Even your whole family.

Think of Partisans during WW2. Would you side with th enemy just because your sister did ?

That God is above ALL, as seen from Abraham willingness to sacrifice his beloved son.

Nope Jesus came for his Hebrew tribe Judah (with Benjamin being with them) and the lost Hebrew tribes of Isreal.
The Pharasiees and Saducees we probably 2-3% actual Hebrews. The rest where Edomites/Cannaties and the head Pharasiee was Babylonian in Judea and Samaratians where mostly in Isreal. They were not Hebrews like Jesus was.

well said actually

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