Minimum wage

Yeah, like 15 billion in debt for all republics together, a lot? Today on Serbia is 60+ billion in debt and yet same argument is used to distance our self's from that demonized system which made us literally rich af. Sanctions imposed on loans were the actual culprit together with foreign funded separatists. Since soviet union fell, Yugoslavia was defunkt as a country being used as a defense belt. There's a reason why Tito didn't get along with Stalin. So as long as our country was important to function for the west it did, but Soviets going down meant there was no reason for Yugoslavian model of a successful system to counteract the system presented by the western countries. So it was time to demolish it covertly by divide and conquer strategy.

Its better if its specific for different economic sectors like we have.

Actually Yugoslavia was already in crisis when Cold War was still at its peak (the 1980s). Sure, it was deepened by the war and sanctions afterwards but still, the roots lie in the inefficient communist economic system.

>no reason for Yugoslavian model of a successful system to counteract the system presented by the western countries

Yugoslavia was only rich comparing to eastern European countries, but it was much poorer than any western one, including Greece. There was a reason why so many Yugos worked in east Germany and "gastarbajter" is actually a word in Serbo-Croatian.

>east Germany

west*

No. The increase of it has driven many smaller businesses to shut down due to them being unable to pay that much, thus fueling emigration even more.

Nah they're overated, let the unions deal with it. Seems to work just fine.

Yeah, but the actual sanctions were made several years before it started collapsing. So long before 90s. Serbia was under sanctions as well later, but that's another topic since those were installed after constitutionally ordered military intervention of trying to prevent the unilateral (illegal) separation of it's republics.

Does everyone belong to a union in Denmark? Even students employed in McDonald's?

Unironically, yes

>Yugoslavia was only rich comparing to eastern European countries, but it was much poorer than any western one, including Greece. There was a reason why so many Yugos worked in east Germany and "gastarbajter" is actually a word in Serbo-Croatian.
Well, I'd disagree with you on that, since I lived in those times, my fathers father worked in Germany back then, and my father at home, they literally had the same wages. You're making false association with soviet union, they were poor af.

The situation has been like this since 2001. That hashtag refers to Vucic's policy of selling everything this country has to the international hyenas. As long as people have panem et circenses, and seeing the amount of reality TV propping up there is a lot of the latter, people won't do shit.

Before Tito, Kingdom of Yugoslavia didn't have much debt. It even had 2, if not more, gold mines. Tito's 15 billion were 40 years ago, do you not realise that debt accumulates? Are you too retarded to realise that if you had 15bil debt 40 years ago, you would have more today?
And how are you rich af if you have such a large debt to begin with?
Tito didn't get along with Stalin because he was a Western puppet.
As the Pole stated in , SFRY was already poor in that time as well, which is why a lot of people worked abroad.
Yugoslav model was shit, it was based on the concept of somebody else funding your home while you came up with wild and retarded ideas. Ironworks in a country with no iron comes to mind, as well as Zastava.

Seems like unnecessary bureaucracy for me. Also you probably have to pay fees and shit like that. But if it ain't broken, don't fix it.

>Yeah, but the actual sanctions were made several years before it started collapsing.

What kind of sanctions?

>Serbia was under sanctions as well later, but that's another topic since those were installed after constitutionally ordered military intervention of trying to prevent the unilateral (illegal) separation of it's republics.

What could they do if the government in Belgrade didn't want to let them separate from Yugoslavia?

>my fathers father worked in Germany back then, and my father at home, they literally had the same wages.

So why did he work in Germany? And why did hundreds of thousands of Yugos do? And why did Yugos drive Zastavas, not Mercedes? Why Yugoslavia had basically one decent highway, while Germany had a full network of highways? Etc. etc.

> since I lived in those times

How old were you, 5?

I'm just curious, are you Krajisnik, Bosnian Serb, Vojvodina, or actual Serb?

we've had wage led growth in the last 3 years and the (((banks))) and (((multinationals))) were screeching that it'll lead to businesses closing and people ending up unemployed.
it's had the exact opposite, productivity increased, employment down.

Ours is age based, with different mimimums increasing as you get older.
From april:
Under 18: £4.35
18 to 20: £6.15
21 to 24: £7.70
25+: £8.21

>unemployment down

>So why did he work in Germany? And why did hundreds of thousands of Yugos do? And why did Yugos drive Zastavas, not Mercedes?
Yugoslav jobs were so good everyone went abroad to work.
Yugoslav products were so good they needed huge tariffs to make foreign goods literally unbuyable.

That's age discrimination.

You have to pay membership fees yes, but due to everthing having a designated union you don't actually need one. The threat of you joining one is enough to make the individual have power enough to negotiate directly with the employer. The minimum amount that you get is thus indirectly determined by a union.

I disagree with you about that, since literally western system went amok after US fed started printing money like lunatics and banks started issued money made of thin air, and that's after 90s. Debt is also an irrelevant topic, semantic really, as we see today, monster debts can be resolved by speculation. So basically flawed narrative to destroy our country was used for a model pretty much every country is using today. Point is, every sovereign country of today or through 20 century is being destroyed and slowly taken over by western model of installing economic slavery on 3rd world countries so western monopolies can take over and that way control your political system as well which makes a >democracy an ultimate meme.

>Yugoslavia was only rich comparing to eastern European countries
If someone sent you with time machine to 1973 and offer to choose between living in the UK or Yugoslavia, you would be really unlucky not to pick the latter option.

You're asking irrelevant questions, semantics. He took a chance which his bosses offered, cause our factories were in trade deals with Germany.

If you think Yugoslavia was all like shown in propaganda movies recorded in Ljubljana or Split - you are wrong. Yugoslavia was also Kosovo, rural Bosnia or Macedonian highlands, where some villages still didn't have electricity in the 60s-70s and people still married whoever their fathers picked for him/her.

And on the other hand, the UK was not only gray and depressing coal mining towns in the north, it was also swinging London etc.

>He took a chance which his bosses offered, cause our factories were in trade deals with Germany.

maybe you're talking about East Germany.

Nope, western Germany. Like I explained before, we weren't isolated to the western world like Soviet Union was.

You don't have to teach me basic facts about Yugoslavia, really, I do know quite a lot about its self-management economic system etc. and I can believe there could be some kind of cooperation with some western countries in some fields, but I won't believe there could be the same salaries in West Germany and Yugoslavia, your father must have been an exception, if it's true. Hundreds of thousands of Yugos working in west Germany and all other differences I listed (and you called 'semantics' for no reason) prove otherwise.

And you would be surprised but the Soviet Union wasn't as isolated as you think. They did cooperate with western countries, especially with non-NATO ones (Austria, Sweden, Finland), but with some NATO countries as well. It's more like average citizens had limited access to western-made goods, but it was also a result of low purchasing power of the Soviet citizens. Still, as far as I remember, even Marlboro had a cigarette factory in the USSR, so did Pepsi (and these products were sold in normal shops).

As if I was trying to specifically state Yugoslavia was rich, not just generally a livable and more or less fine place to stay.

> If you think Yugoslavia was all like shown in propaganda movies
Never seen any.

> some villages still didn't have electricity in the 60s-70s
There are tons of places right now in urban Europe without central heating, or even hot water supply. Yugoslavs, especially older ones, present a clearly healthy (and desu, non-aggressive) look of the childhood spent in a country where you could afford some actual decency in terms of daily stuff. So does their housing from these times, outperforming Finland in quality and urban environment state of development.

>Is minimum wage a good idea Jow Forums?
minimum wage is a tool to create a buffer stock of the available workforce, minimum wage creates unemployment, unemployed persons are a surplus workforce stock that can be reintroduced into the labor market

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffer_stock_scheme

similar as you have stock of grain or other wares to stabilize the price

it is a good idea when the economy is at full employment, than minimum wage prevents harmful wage increase that would cripple business

when the economy is bad, and there is high unemployment the minimum wage is useless, because there is an abundance of workforce at low prices

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>Debt is also an irrelevant topic, semantic really
This was a really quick backtrack, seeing how you used it to prove how communism is superior in Yugoslav socialism was propped and maintained by the West, as evidenced by the fact that, as you said, 15bil was owed to the West. Not much was owed to USSR. Seeing how that is the case, here you say
>every sovereign country of today or through 20 century is being destroyed and slowly taked over...
to which my question is: how is the Yugoslav system superior if it was maintained by that very system eating us now?
The rest of what you said is true, and nobody denies that. Israel's golem is destroying everything in its sight, democracy is a farce, economic slavery is well underway, etc.
This was not our argument. We were talking about how, according to you, communism made us rich af, even though it was made rich by the same parasite now squeezing us dry.

> They did cooperate with western countries, especially with non-NATO ones (Austria, Sweden, Finland), but with some NATO countries as well
It was fairly limited to mostly selling them resources. Finland was an exception, with being able to enjoy Lada vehicles. They still like Niva a lot.

> even Marlboro had a cigarette factory in the USSR, so did Pepsi
both were introduced in the USSR in later times, though

>I won't believe there could be the same salaries in West Germany and Yugoslavia
Suit your self, you don't know much then. History is written by winners anyway, I don't have to convince a single person.

>not just generally a livable and more or less fine place to stay.

that's a subjective matter

it's like saying that Albania is more livable than Petersburg

>Never seen any.

so you should watch them

youtube.com/watch?v=1MGkkQu4sPY

they're actually really nice

>There are tons of places right now in urban Europe without central heating, or even hot water supply.

Well, central heating is not considered a must in most of western European countries due to their mild climate. Just like A/C in eastern Europe.

>Yugoslavs, especially older ones, present a clearly healthy (and desu, non-aggressive) look of the childhood spent in a country where you could afford some actual decency in terms of daily stuff.

There is commie nostalgia in all ex-commie countries, just like there is nostalgia about "good old times" in pretty much all countries in the world. You have a saying in Russian "пpи Cтaлинe y мeня хyй cтoял", you should understand how skewed it is.

No its a bad idea because it means jews make less money and our entire society is based around ensuring jews make the most money as possible and thats a good thing

This might have been the case for some who worked through government factories. Most people who went to work "na crno" made much more money than in Yugoslavia. My father as a dish washer had a larger salary in Italy than my grandfather as an engineer in a prominent factory.

Communism did give really nice childhood memories... to Slovenians and Bosnians. The rest absolutely hate Tito.

>you don't know much then.

I know Serbian well enough and Ive talked to so many Yugos about these times and you're the first person who claims something like that, even in Serbian tabloids that usually idealize Yugoslavia in contrast to modern Serbia I haven't seen anything like that.

I don't argue systems, since ideologies as only as good as people who lead them. It has more to do with global forces instead of economic system, systems work if they aren't suppressed. Back then we even had mixed economy with private business. Today it's supposed free market capitalism but we're still poor af. And will stay poor, because we are exposed to global monopolies who simply take over your economy. Capitalism works only if everyone starts at the same time. Since US installed it's domination over a post world war ruined Europe, they created their ally's and enemies, we ended up being the enemy eventually. Now we're under a corporate monopolies which exploit our work force and keep us in chains, literal wage slavery.

Interesting how dogmatic it sounds to you what I'm saying, no wonder, as time is passing by, so do generations and memories.

I honestly have no idea and economists are so stupid even they can't agree on it

> that's a subjective matter
Except it's not. Yugoslav economy was doing more or less fine.

>it's like saying that Albania is more livable than Petersburg
Not, it's not. Not since Albania is nowhere to be compared to St P, but rather because it's mostly fine when your perceptions on life in the country match the economical situation once you start to pay attention for smaller details.

> Well, central heating is not considered a must in most of western European countries due to their mild climate
I am not used to dress up at home, unlike most of Europeans. You would want to do that if it's below 10° outside and you didn't heat up your place well.

> There is commie nostalgia in all ex-commie countries
I didn't interact with them much since I don't want to hear bullshit about Putin being the god saviour, therefore, I haven't heard about how glorious the SFRJ times were, lickily. There are other ways to see how was their childhood in Yugoslavia was like: their body complexion, their habits, the way of talking, places they visit, general behaviour. There's a reason people from certain countries are aggressive, have poor health and body conditions, try to jew anyone and behave in an anti-social way. I didn't observe that in Serbia (and I am specifically talking about Serbia since I haven't been elsewhere in ex-yu), while I did in places that have higher economical output, quality of living and job opportunities.

> пpи Cтaлинe y мeня хyй cтoял
тpaвa былa зeлeнee, и хyй cтoял, дa

>Except it's not. Yugoslav economy was doing more or less fine.

First you said you hadn't been trying to state that Yugoslavia was rich but you'd been talking about livability and now you change your argumentation to economy again. Make up your mind.

Livability is not only about economy.

>I am not used to dress up at home, unlike most of Europeans. You would want to do that if it's below 10° outside and you didn't heat up your place well.

Again, pretty much no one had A/C in the USSR, even though +35 C or more in Moscow happens pretty often in the summer. So we could say the USSR didn't provide basic amenities to its citizens.

Why don't you want to understand some things are considered 'basic' in some countries but it doesn't have to apply to other countries due to different conditions, climate etc.

>I didn't observe that in Serbia (and I am specifically talking about Serbia since I haven't been elsewhere in ex-yu)

This is extremely subjective and biased and completely useless as a verifiable argument. Your personal observations can't replace statistics and reliable data. Especially that Serbian mafia is known around all of Europe as one of the most brutal mafias.

I have around $800 for sitting on ass twice a week and playing games or watching movies on 50" TV in office with free juice and fast Wi-Fi.

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