Universal Healthcare

Fundamentally, this is a socialist vs capitalist question and answer. Why does the left believe the government is more efficient than the free market?

If the government let healthcare be 99% free market run (no medicaid, medicare, etc), all of us would have the option to purchase insanely cheap and awesome healthcare. We wouldn't be forced to get healthcare insurance for sicknesses and issues we'd never genetically get or have. Why should I have to purchase insurance with HIV protection when I'm not a nigger or degenerate? On top of that the amount of healthcare innovation would leap just as quickly as it does in technology, seemingly the only industry with no regulations left.

Name any industry or service in which the government is more efficient in. I can maybe only think of military + private road owning (not maintenance, just owning)

user I think you're talking to yourself again

Universal healhcare is a net loss to someone if they are an average to above average healthy person. You take good care of yourself, exercise and live a life of moderation. Meanwhile you take your obese lardass or your resident junkies and sink all of that collective money into people that don't want to take care of themselves. It makes me think that the average socialist or communist falls somewhere below average when it comes to their health or financial situation. If you can take care yourself just fine, why have the government take a collection of money from everyone to do it for you? I would be down for universal healthcare if we lived in a small to medium population country that was ethnically homogeneous. Where communities had a strong desire to actually work together. Not some multi ethnic dystopia where each separate enclave works to siphon off as much tax dollars while contributing as little as possible.

Mental illness most definitely exists, but it's all neurological/neurochemical.

I get your points, but at the same time, I find it hard to believe you would give it up. In USA you need to be lucky enough to have a job that provides good medical insurance, and even then it doesn’t cover everything. It would be a huge relief to have a universal system.

It totally makes sense that you would save money if you didn't have to deal with insurance companies (that actually profit handsomely off of the transactions)...

But what they don't recognize is that PAYMENT is the way society decides who gets to use scarce resources.... and nationalized healthcare totally fails at solving this latter problem.

>suffers a heart attack, dies trying to optimize costs for the particular scenario in question (which hospital has the cheapest/more cost-efficient emergency care?)

private health insurance is the most jewish of tricks.

I have a very stupid question for anons itt
What is the purpose of the healthcare (or provider) networks? Do they serve any sort of function besides making things more convoluted? It seems to me like a lot of healthcare costs could be lowered if the networks were eliminated and competition was allowed.

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Because then the government is in charge of your healthcare. Freedom to choose your doctor is important. Health insurance isn’t difficult to obtain.

>I can maybe only think of military + private road owning (not maintenance, just owning)
The government is pure dogshit at running the military, they just have a legal monopoly on the majority of military activities and technology. In the areas where private options are available they blow the uniformed military out of the water because they don't have ten billions layers of bureaucracy and politics to deal with.

The guy who set up Quebec's health care system, himself, said it was a huge fucking failure.
The Supreme Court said that the service was SO TERRIBLE that denying a private health care system was a VIOLATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS.
Now, because there are both systems, the only people who can afford to use the private are the people rich enough to pay for both the public AND the private. How is that better than your system for anything more urgent than the sniffles?
How long would you consider it reasonable to take to get an MRI categorized as "urgent" by, say, your neurologist?
Hell, I have some diagnostic work that I need to get done, but the public system doesn't cover it *at all*, so I'm SOL.

No it doesn't, there are no objective tests that can prove any exist

>It would be a huge relief to have a universal system.

Because you don't have a free market in your healthcare, probably by design to push for this shit

Don't fall for their commie lies

I pretty much guarantee it won't be cheaper for me, I spend maybe $500 a year on health insurance and never go to the fucking doctor except maybe every 5 years or so when I get something that won't go away without antibiotics. So, because I workout 6 days a week and eat healthy, I get to pay a bunch extra for a bunch of fat dirtbags that destroy themselves then have us pay to piece them together, get fucked.

>Freedom to choose your doctor is important.
Dude, if you want to get a family doctor in Quebec, you're looking at a 10+ year wait. I'm not even kidding.

>there are no objective tests that can prove any exist
Our diagnostic tools are still pretty basic. FMRI, for instance, only looks at where the blood flow increases or decreases during tasks.

Another issue is the government doesn't even allow real "insurance" companies in healthcare and force their hands with a billion regulations.

Without a proper incentive structure, all you get is extreme inefficiencies in the marketplace.

If we had a real free market, 95% of our population would be able to purchase private insurance covering every known disease/illness for pennies on the dollar compared to today.

The problem is in a free market there will ALWAYS be a gap of people who can't afford the services. We must ALLOW this gap to exist and keep the government out of healthcare even if it means people dieing in the streets. I believe the solution is private charities n such helping close the gap, not the government intervention.

>Our diagnostic tools are still pretty basic.

Lmao, then it's probably not a good idea to start diagnosing teenage girls with bipolar disorder based on no objective test.

Do I sound like I'm a proponent of any of that? Really?
History will look back at today's mental health care practices the way we look back on bloodletting.

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You did when you made this post

ban insurance and prices fall. no one gets even a bandaid w/o cash. watch prices fall or doctors will become welders one

>Quebec

Immediately irrelevant

Well yeah just don't provide healthcare to whites and you'll cut your costs by half. He doesn't believe whites can be poor so surely he does not believe whites can be sick either.

>broken people
>it doesn't exist
>broken people don't exist
why do you contradict yourself? are you mentally ill?

pretty much guaranteed to be (((accounting))) that makes it look like their are all sorts of dubious savings to be made, but somehow never materialise.

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Pay him no mind, he's clearly retarded.

more people treated = more people in work

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Governemnets. I think Universal healthcare would work on the local level State or city but at the national level the federal government is sure to Crony the fuck out of it making it worse.

No it wouldn't. This was fact checked by reasonable economists, not leftists shills.
And no policy matters when the American Medical association exists, aka, a white collar union to keep their salaries high . And insurance doesn't fight to keep costs down because they don't have any incentive to, they'll just pass on the costs to the consumers. Government supplied healthcsre would inevitably lead to more taxation and reduction of services. They're not going to "break" the AMA.

Name one time the US government being in control of something made it cheaper.

i think his main motivating factor is spite rather than a desire for effectiveness, typical of Jow Forums and i've been like it at times

that said, the NHS has been run into the ground and one of my biggest fears is needing surgery, because it'll inevitably be botched by nigerians

Everything's cheaper when you ration it.

when accessibility increases, so does the cost of healthcare

i work in trades and sometimes i wish my arm bent like that

>So universal healthcare would actually be cheaper.
75% of all healthcare dollars spent are from Medicare and Medicaid. How is making it 100% going to be any better?

Right. Now do it against the real numbers (i.e. actual dollars paid in and out) rather than the overinflated (((numbers))) used to justify insurance company bollocks.

Bet it doesn't fucking work then. As I said, just another fucking attempt to fuck everybody over by (((them)))

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Think we'll ever get that past 0?

>Why does the left believe the government is more efficient than the free market?
Because the USA pays literally more than any other nation per capital for health care, and doesn't provide universal coverage and is the primary cause of personal bankruptcy.
In short evidence.

Something like 49% of all healthcare spending in America is by the government. Add on top of that the retarded regulations and FDA's insane criteria for new drugs and you'll understand.

Cheaper for who though? Protip: shitskins with no insurance. For middle class whites I would be shocked if it didn't go up significantly. And with worse service because the whole system will be even more inundated with squatamalans, niggers, and trannies. How else are (((insurance companies))), (((drug companies))), and (((healthcare execs))) going to keep raking in record profits?

>Think we'll ever get that past 0?

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good luck with your low prices when there's a unilever/AT&T of healthcare

why are americans so low-IQ that they defend broken inhumane status quo?

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>75% of all healthcare dollars spent are from Medicare and Medicaid. How is making it 100% going to be any better?

Well the VA is a healthcare service run 100% by the government and that's just great isn't...oh. My bad.

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Emotional trauma isn't a mental illness, it's a human response and not an illness to be treated away with pills. Retard.

Not an argument

It's not spite, it's because people who grew up in abusive environments are being treated with medication

A lot better than getting beat over the head because of a union and then told by the state you're going to be forced to buy healthcare all while doing nothing that makes economic sense to attack what's leading to exponential price increases.

If you're arguing for universal healthcare, you're basically making a trickle down argument in favor of businesses which is odd because leftists mock that idea all the time. Universal healthcare would be a huge break for companies since they would no longer subsidize their employees' health insurance premiums.

It would be a massive tax increase on people who actually contribute to society because they would end up paying far more than they currently do with their employer-subsidized health insurance while receiving worse care. For example, I pay $30/month for my premium but if we had universal healthcare and there was a 10% payroll tax to fund it I would be paying just over $500/month. That's 6K per year, which is higher than the maximum out of pocket amount for my current health insurance plan, so I wouldn't even be coming out ahead if I had a worst-case scenario and required treatment that ended up costing six figures.

As with most libfag plans, under a single payer system the most useless people in society would benefit the most while the people who work and pay taxes would get fucked hard.

Is there ANY function that government does more efficiently and less costly than what private industry could do?

>all mental illness is "emotional trauma"
go and pray you dumb fucking bellend

Those are skewed jew numbers. The reason it's so "high" is because that's what those companies charge the government programs (medicare/medicaid).

For example, if a old 80 year old women went to get that drug and had medicare, the company that creates Nexium knows it can charge the government insanely over inflated prices... so it does that which is what leads to those skewed numbers.

If we had a free market, that company knows no one would pay that much and would be forced to lower the price (that's not even bringing up competitors).

>No objective tests exist that can prove 'mental illness' exists, i.e. no scans, blood tests, DNA tests

>People with 'mental illness' are 'treated' with medication that radically alters their mind

>People with 'mental illness' just happen to have traumatic childhoods

>"muh gubment"
>point out the tendency of all industries towards a monopoly as the biggest guy acquires hundreds of slightly smaller guys, so there's no guarantee that in a laissez-faire healthcare market you'd see a reduction in costs
>"muh unions"

yet the other countries on that graph have a much larger social welfare/medicine system, and drugs are cheaper there. hmmm

Only harmful monopolies exist when enforced by the state due to favoritism or what have you. Nice non arguments.

did you read the headline, ya retard? Medicare for all saves huge money. only republican retards with mental gymnastics disorder have trouble with that fact

If we did that where would all the Leafs go to pay cash to get the life-saving surgeries their own socialized healthcare puts them on wait-to-die lists for?

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>Something like 49% of all healthcare spending in America is by the government. Add on top of that the retarded regulations and FDA's insane criteria for new drugs and you'll understand.
As a function of GDP spent on healthcare the USA spends more than everyone. It spends just under double what Canada spends. That's from all sources public and private.
The regulations for drugs are fine and compliance isn't that expensive. After all every large pharmaceutical company spends more on advertising than it does on R&D.

The private system in the US fails because everything needs to be individually billed. This means that private system employees 10 times as many healthcare administrators as the "wasteful" public system. Lets not even talk about the for profit costs added on top.

>>No objective tests exist that can prove 'mental illness' exists, i.e. no scans, blood tests, DNA tests
ooo i wonder why

>>People with 'mental illness' just happen to have traumatic childhoods
source

that's a statement of faith. how did the government lead to unilever producing 99% of the brands you eat and clean yourself with?

You english have such a fantastic array of cursewords. here it's just "fuck this" or "shit, damn"

Most people here are so fucking stupid it wouldn't surprise me a bit to see a new suburban development name a street Bell End Lane

I want it implemented by a nationalist, so I know it will be for the people. Not some open borders globalist kike who will give it to the third world.

Strawmanning. Didn't say Unilever was a harmful Monopoly and it isn't Monopoly anyways when I can buy other shit. Not to mention everything they sell is cheap. They want to jack up prices, go for it. There's nothing legal stopping competitors from jumping in and undercutting them . You missing the point m8?

>break hip
>won't be able to be fixed for 11 weeks
>by the time they try to fix it they have to re-break it because it's already started to heal

>have jaw abscess
>in excruciating pain but it's not life threatening
>they'll see you in 11 weeks

Socialized medicine is a scam.

Also I love how people think that we have people dying on the street because of a lack of medical care.

If you're poor you simply wait til it's an emergency and you go to the emergency room. They fix you immediately, and then they give you a gigantic bill you'll never pay.

Those are the two sides of the story.

>Socialized medicine: Wait 11 weeks to get your excruciating injury fixed.

>Capitalist medicine: Your excruciating injury can be fixed same day but you'll pay out the ass and maybe be in debt for the rest of your life.

Me, I'd choose the debt.

I think maybe 4% of a pharma tech expenditures is on R&D from what i remember of my pharmaceutical classes. small biotech companies spend much more as a percentage, and then are bought out.

Also, I feel like it's worth pointing out that allowing pharmaceutical companies to give doctors money for prescribing their medication is a huge conflict of interest and should be made illegal.

Oy Vey.

(((They))) can't fucking help themselves can they? If there's money to be made then there's shilling to be done.

Fuck off back to Tel Aviv Shlomo!

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VA has actually been pretty awesome for the past 2-3 years. Either way I don't want gubment service pls

>ooo i wonder why

Because it doesn't exist

Childhood traumatic events are risk factors for developing bipolar disorders, in addition to a more severe clinical presentation over time (primarily an earlier age at onset and an increased risk of suicide attempt and substance misuse). Childhood trauma leads to alterations of affect regulation, impulse control, and cognitive functioning that might decrease the ability to cope with later stressors.

National Parks, but honestly they just try to let nature be nature and protect it from the bigger idiots.

source:
'The role of childhood trauma in bipolar disorders'

on springeropen

Jow Forums won't let me post the link

Whatever Red Shield Bank slave.

Mate of mine with severe disability because of a fuckup by Army medics would disagree. He's only getting help now because his campaign became an election issue for an MT senate race last fall.

>So universal healthcare would actually be cheaper. Why not have it?
Cool it with the anti-Semitism OK? Dr. Shekelberg needs every cent he can get.

so they're, predictably, risk factors for bipolar disorders

and you jump from that to "mental illnesses don't exist and everything is childhood trauma". boy you're a dishonest fucker, driven by spite. in your mind the schizophrenic is the same feckless waster as the obese alcoholic

Nexium costing $215. Such bullshit. FAKE NEWS.

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>Medicare
>charges

Wanna guess how I know you have no idea what you're talking about?

>It's government would save money!
>Because instead of addressing any of the issues or abuse, it's making everyone pay directly into it instead of the government allocating funding
Cool healthcare prick.

I never said that childhood trauma was the cause of everything

Compound trauma with medication (and illegal drugs) that radically alters your mind, then you will make someone who has 'mental illness'.

let's go back to one of your earlier posts, in response to my post that implied "mental illness exists"
>Emotional trauma isn't a mental illness

so you're a lying fag

>Compound trauma with medication
there's no room in your retarded little diagnosis framework for psychosis and a litany of other serious mental illnesses that arise with no history of trauma, abuse, prescription drugs or substance misuse

you've got the all the psychological understanding of a witch doctor, fuck off to mozambique

OK we've been over this, because it's not some new idea. Other western countries with universal healthcare set it up ages ago, with largely ethnically homogeneous populations of healthy people (as they did similar social programs), and most still allowed private insurance on top of that. The best universal healthcare systems (such as here in Australia) would be massively abused for gibs by the unhealthy, lazy cheapasses flooding into the US (as well as those already there). We already see systemic failures across Europe anywhere that migration the whole welfare state mentality has become entrenched. Australia is coping because there's just not the same degree of immigration or abuse from retards (yet).

So basically, in the case of the US, you can't have nice things because niggers and spics exist. And if you want any degree of Socialism you need it tied to a strong Nationalism.

>Something like 49% of all healthcare spending in America is by the government
It's 75%.

>Yes goy, just treat your depression with these drugs, don't get angry

This is why you don't let your leaders just import migrant workers without limit. If you offer gibs and tell everyone that wants can come here, the system will likely collapse.

>>Healthcare, just like every other industry, needs profit motives, demand for efficiency and investors

This is not true. People will work as long as they get paid. 98% of the population gets not profits, yet they show up for work as long as the get a paycheck. You are thinking too black and white with a capitalist mindset. Also, efficiency is highly lacking in healthcare. Insurance likely skims off up to 20% of your bill just for themselves and they are just paper pushers.

Considering your system costs half of what ours does, I'll take it over our system

cool non-sequitur

University research probably lead to a number of drugs getting on the market. Most universities are funded by the government.

If you had 100% free market health care , no government interference, you would see a mess. Probably 40% of the population with no healthy insurance because they couldn't afford it. If you lost the genetic lottery you wouldn't be alive past young age. Health care would look similar to our banking system like the Fed. It would be cutthroat, take no prisoners approach to business. Hospitals would be owned by probably at maximum 2-3 large conglomerates. Doctors would be overstaffed in wealthy areas and no doctors in poor areas.

I personally would not be saving money, and i'm not at all concerned with others saving anything. Because I am more valuable to soeciety as a software developer (as compared to a useless weed head or burger flipper) all my benefits are paid.

what's this socially useful software you develop?

That is because that 49% is driven by the unhealthiest member of society, and mirrors what doctors can charge for in the free market healthcare that is funded by the other 51%. As you will see, it is the free market driving the costs, not the government. The government is just mirroring what you see in the free market.

>This is not true. People will work as long as they get paid.

No they won't, which is one reason why my mother quit and as to why the NHS has to import people who's wages are offset by the exchange in currency in their home naiton.

>Also, efficiency is highly lacking in healthcare. Insurance likely skims off up to 20% of your bill just for themselves and they are just paper pushers.

Insurance companies are heavily regulated and controlled.

>You are thinking too black and white with a capitalist mindset.

No, you are the one thinking in black and white, who magically assumes that throwing free money will fix things. I don't and most people don't, know how to order and maintain a healthcare system, which is why the free market should be left to.

Most importantly, I don't want my taxes being spent on aborting children and treating some fags HIV

>I don't and most people don't, know how to order and maintain a healthcare system, which is why the free market should be left to.

Like Obama's $1 billion Obamacare website. What a fucking colossal waste.

Lmao at this scare mongering

If you have a huge proportion of the population with no access to heatlhcare, then you now have a huge consumer market for low cost healthcare

This would be a goldmine for a healthcare private sector, who then rush to make the gap cheaper and cheaper, to attract more consumers.