Friend's Boyfriend Sucks

I understand the point you are making. And I would agree with you when taken to reductio ad absurdum levels.
It's not just me - it's literally 10+ different people who are all best friends with her too. My issue (from my own experience in abusive relationships) is that it can be very hard to see / keep track of while you are in the relationship yourself. You slowly are degraded over time to where you don't even notice it (like a frog in water that slowly boils)

I am not expecting to talk to her and say "Break up with him!" and she does and that's it. I still feel obligated to tell her / warn her about him, as I would with any close friend.
It's also much more than I just "don't like him" - I could get over it if I just didn't like him / learn to like him and accept him as part of our circle

If you saw your best friend's wife out in public cheating on him with another man, you seem like the type of person who would not tell your best friend ("It's none of my business!")

>she should break up with him / they are not good for each other / not a good fit / if they were to keep going and get married she would big time regret it.
>For all I know, when they're alone together he is perfect to her. I don't know, I'm not there. But what I see in public is not what I like to see.
So is he actually a bad boyfriend to her or not? Because your post is all about how YOU feel about him.

I haven't heard or seen anything about how he treats "Rosie" and I'm guessing it's not poorly so far. Besides, he's in his 30s, he probably has his reasoning.

If I were to go on Jow Forums, and ask for advice when I was suicidal, I would get repeated posts telling me to kill myself.
"Why would you ask for advice and not follow it user?? We all told you to kill yourself!"
Do you see my point? I don't have to listen to you, or give what you say any regard whatseover. I don't give a fuck what you (personally) think frankly. I listened to what you had to say, and I disagree with you in what we believe the obligation of a friend is to another close friend in these matters. We aren't going to find common ground.

I am aware that if I do nothing, then inevitably they will break up eventually. I am just worried that she will spend years of her life in a bad relationship. She's a close friend of mine and I love her, and I want her to be happy. She is not happy in the relationship, but is not strong enough to end it by herself (yet)

Truly I had hoped to hear from other people who had similar experiences to this and what they did / how they talked to their friend / got through to them / phrasing without hurting the friendship.

I don't get why you think every problem has a solution that pleases YOU specifically. That's what we're saying, maybe if you can't just approach it directly you're fucked. What, you expect a magical euphemism that's going to sound like something other than 'we don't like your boyfriend; drop him'?

Come on, fuck off already you goddam donkey. Nobody's saying 'you have to listen' but if you're getting the same shit piled on you maybe you're barking up the wrong tree, or better yet, it's a total non-issue that you could solve by just using basic fucking human interaction.

But no, it seems a lot more like you wanted to come to Jow Forums because A) we supposedly have magical cure-alls and B) you can lord your position and 'good friendship' over us by telling us you want to sabotage a relationship just because YOU wouldn't mesh with the guy, having NO idea what their personal life behind closed doors is like.

I don't know what the fuck you want from us, OP, but I have a feeling if you stick in this thread you might actually get told to kill yourself more than once and more than one poster would appreciate you taking that to heart. Voice your concerns clearly and civilly like an adult or don't do sweet fuck all, but don't come onto here asking for subterfuge to make people drift apart like we're all in the fucking high school headspace like you are.

Either leave them the fuck alone knowing she's an adult capable of making her own choices or tell her straight up that you don't think she is and that she's chosen a bum guy.

I am giving him the benefit of the doubt saying 'for all I know' - to be reasonable. I am not there with them 100% of the time, and it would be ridiculous for me to say I know how they are together when they are alone.
In public, the things that I see that I don't like:
>whenever she is asked a question, he speaks/answers for her
>whenever she does say something, he puts down what she said as stupid
>zero affection displayed toward her
>when she expresses her social/political beliefs, he won't even engage in discussion, just shuts down and tells her she is a dumb liberal
>when we're going different places, he doesn't offer her his coat if she's cold, doesn't offer to carry something (heavy) she's carrying
>is rude (in a non-joking way) to her closest friends [not me in particular, he's been always fairly polite with me]
>controls what she wears / where she goes
>in any situation where she's wrong, he makes it a HUGE deal and tries to get everyone to 'witness' that she was wrong and embarrass her publicly

These are just a few things off the top of my head. He has never hit her (as far as I know) It's more so emotional / mental abuse like that she is not allowed to have her own opinions / thoughts / feelings

>reductio ad absurdum levels
have you read you diatribe in two sections whining like a little bitch and then going to all the friends and bitching for their support? seriously you sound like a jr high kid. She just started dating the guy and its none of your business what an adult woman does. you don't really know the guy. let me say that again YOU DON'T KNOW HIM and obviously made a snap judgment and looked for things that supports your group think.

And you want her to break up with him because you said so and will never stop until she does.

You sound like a boy with a crush and if you are a girl a girl with a crush and pissed

Just because the solutions you have offered (which weren't even solutions, just shit talking) are shit does not mean that there aren't any good solutions out there.
I know many girls who have had to deal with friends of theirs dating abusive boyfriends. They have already dealt with similar experiences, and have insight to share with me. You do not have insight to share, and are at this point just shit posting. You don't need to respond to every advice thread. Nobody is making you respond to me. Lurk moar.

I hoped for someone to tell a story of a similar experience they dealt with, how they handled it, what they said, where they said it, how they went about it, everything.

The fact that you think I'm "lording my good friendship" over you just shows your pathetic projection of loneliness lol. This is not what this post was about. You're like a girl who when a friend invites them to their wedding says "Oh so you just wanted to rub it in that I'm single huh??"
It's not all about you.

I think that she has chosen a bum guy, and hope for advice on how to go about that conversation.
Please stop responding to me, you are not helping me, yourself, or anyone.

You sound like what my grandma calls a busybody always poking their nose in other peoples business and calling it justified because you are such a good friend. No you stick your nose where it doesn't belong and already tried to poison every other friend against the guy talking about her and him behind their backs.

>sabotage a relationship
thats exactly what OP is trying to do

It is true that I don't know him on a deep personal level. and again, I want to make it clear that I had all of these opinions of him prior to talking to anyone about it. I felt really guilty for disliking him so much / thinking that they were not a good match for each other / this would end badly. It was only after talking to her best friend that it was made apparent to me that EVERYONE felt the same way / had been talking about it without my knowledge

She has been dating him now for >8 months. Obviously it is not my decision to make, nor am I saying that it is. HOWEVER, as a really close / best friend of hers, I feel obligated to let her know that he sucks, and let her make the decision herself (supposedly, she suspects that he sucks, and has been asking her best friend / her husband what they honestly think of him)

If I were to tell her, and she decided to stay with him, I would be fine with that - I just think I am obligated to tell her. At the end of the day, she is 100% in charge and I am not trying to argue against that.

>dating abusive boyfriends
but you see you have already decided he is an abusive boyfriend. come on tell me what else is he guilty of since you can spot em?

So tell her. Jesus, why do women needlessly complicate literally everything? That desperate for attention on Jow Forums or what?

What you are not getting is that I only talked to 1 person, who informed me that 10 other people had talked to her about it already in 1 on 1 situations, where each person thought they were the only 1 to think these things. I was the last one to make it known what I thought. Nobody in the group knows what I think other than this 1 person.

Please, if you were to see a friend of yours in an abusive relationship, you wouldn't say anything? What a good friend you are!

If you had read the OP description / 1st post for explanation, you would understand that it needs to be done tactfully. I cannot just go up to her and say "He sucks." I was hoping for someone who had experience with this type of conversation (if you have zero experience with this, why would you even try to offer advice?) to say what they had said / how they had sugar-coated it / went about it so as not to offend while getting the point across.

Even more so, I was hoping for a girl who was in an abusive relationship to tell me what their friends did to support her / how did they get through to her / did she wish that her friends had warned her about the abusive guy

see
Those are just a few things that I see in public off the top of my head. Typically, if people are like that in public with their significant other, then behind closed doors it can be a lot worse. I am not saying "he's abusive behind closed doors!" but he definitely is out in public.

I had a friend who was in a similar situation. I didn't want to be nosey, so I did very little. I sort of implied that he was bad for her, but she didn't listen to me. When his bad behavior escalated, I finally told her outright that he was an asshole and she even agreed, but still insisted that she "loved" him. I sort of gave up on her after that because I figured that it was her life. He ended up dumping her a year later on Christmas eve and later he admitted to having cheated on her.

Based on my experience, you probably can't do anything right in this situation. If you tell her, she will resent you. If you don't tell her, you will hate yourself. I recommend telling her, but be diplomatic about it.

>says she's libertarian
>thinks its ok to accuse people of sexual assault with no evidence
OP, The Young Turks are not libertarian.

My issue with his opinion on the Kavanaugh hearings is more so that he is 101% completely closed off to the idea that it is even remotely possible that any of these allegations occurred. He is MGTOW tier when it comes to issues like this, "All women are whores!" "She's making up the allegations for attention!" tier
I am not saying one way or the other, and that is not what this is about - it's just a descriptor / indicative of someone's character that they are unable to see any other side to an issue / are so vehemently stuck in their beliefs despite any evidence offered (likewise, someone who automatically believes all of the allegations no matter the evidence otherwise is just as bad)
[it especially matters in this context b/c of the beliefs that Rosie has about these things]

Thank you for sharing your experience user. I hear you, and know that I'm damned if I do damned if I don't. I think that it's bad enough for me to tell her the truth (how you finally told her outright)

Don't bother OP.

This is her first relationship.
She is in love.

Nothing you say will get through to her. Don't you remember your own first love? It's us against the world type feelings? There is no chance that she'll respond rationally.

The only thing you can do is wait. If he is as bad as you say he is, then with time she'll get irritated enough to take off the pink glasses and see him for the dick he is.
Only time can help you.

(pic unrelated)

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In his defense the Kavanaugh hearings did turn out to be 100% as fabricated as the old piss dossier that John McCain of all fucking people forged.

I think that what you said is very wise - perhaps you're right. I don't think I'll actively pursue having a conversation with her, but if she asks me what I think I'm going to be brutally honest

Yeah, Rosie sounds fucking based you reddit cuck.

Fuck NIGGERS and fuck TRANNIES

I have a friend like this currently in a relationship. She's usually a smart and logical girl, but she does have kind of low self esteem.
Her boyfriend preys on that. Once she shared screenshots of an argument and he was gaslighting her so bad, turning any accusation around and acting the victim, completely ignoring valid points, disrespecting and throwing in points to hit her self esteem if she became insistent on an answer, the lot. So I went picture by picture, circling examples and highlighting them from a non emotional point of view and she agreed on my conclusions. She said she'd break up "right after the holidays".

Eventually he found out and threatened me for some reason, and I didn't receive any since and she clams up and says "fine" whenever I ask how the relationship's going. I'm a worried about her but I toed it close to the line that day. The bf knows I strongly encouraged breaking up I'm sure, so I'm glad I haven't been cut off at least.

Your friend won't see until she sees it herself. But because she's so passive I'd say tell her anyway. Is the guy rude to those friends because they already said something? If that's the worst to happen if it then just try, and say you'll be there for her.

I'm a man in a funny situation myself. I have a friend that doesn't like my girlfriend. He just hints that I should see other girls. I don't listen because at the end of the day I know what I want more than he does but I never felt what he does is intrusive. I also look at things from his perspective and know he means well.

Why don't you get some dick and let your friend be happy it's not like he's abusing her or anything

You are so obviously a lefty libtard troll...piss of back to Salon.com or Vox.com with your fake ass social conundrum

You didn't actually explain in your OP how he was controlling or abusive.
The way you type also doesn't make you sound like a 25/6 year old woman. This reads like a LARP

It reads like teens pretending their lives are more significant than they actually are so that they can feel important and at the center of attention.
As per usual, non-issues held by idiots, easily solved by... I don't know, basic communication.

Jesus christ user, i have sympathy towards friends who get physically or emotionally abused but youre just acting like a white knight faggot. You want your (female) friend to dump her boyfriend and be lonley because YOU dont him.

Yeah I bet you say youre a nice guy too right user?

You're right that I didn't post in the OP the real reasons, I posted in follow-ups throughout the thread. Typically people read the thread before posting, because the information has already been addressed

I also find it hilarious the projection from all these guys that I'm a female, because I have a close girl friend. I'm a man. A man who can recognize when another man is not a nice guy / not good for my female friends.
It's funny to see all the projected hate from multiple posters directed towards my posts just because they thought it was written by a female. If you were one of the posters who wrote something just because you thought I was a girl, you may want to re-evaluate your cognitive biases
( especially)

Please see

These are always tough situations to be in.

I think what you want is someone better for her and someone that fits with your group.

There is nothing wrong with that. It's actually more odd she would go for someone that doesn't fit in with her norms.

If you look into the physiology of this more you might find better answers than here.

Look at why people stay in bad relationships and why people go for relationships outside there normal behavior.

It's nearly the same situation as you describe, especially the self-esteem issue. He's not as bad as the guy you describe (as far as I know) but every time I see them it's worse and worse. Once they move in together I think it will really escalate / I'm worried it will escalate.

I am worried that I will have the same thing happen to me, even from a losing a friend / being cut off thing due to pressure from him.
I think that right now she's starting to see (as she's been asking her best friend, the one I confided in, about what she really thinks of him) but I still don't think she would respond well to me outright or going out of my way to tell her to be careful / I'm concerned

The guy as far as I know is not aware that 10+ people dislike him (which is also an issue of social awareness) Nobody has ever told 'Rosie' except her best friend, but even she didn't want to say anything out right due to the same fears that I outlined in (I also want to make it clear that we as a group are not all actively gossiping about him, it was a 1 on 1 conversation I had with Rosie's best friend, who confessed that she had this same 1 on 1 conversation with multiple people after they sought her out for her advice [since she's Rosie's best friend everyone thought she would know what to do])

I think that she will see eventually, I just don't want her to have to go through an abusive relationship that could have been avoided if her friends were "man enough" to tell her the truth. Not that what we would say would automatically make her end the relationship, but perhaps she would be able to take off the rose glasses and more accurately assess the situation

>I'm a man
>and I dun wan her datin dat guy
37 posts and your dumb ass-- which is supposedly more clever than us-- can't figure how to tactfully say, "Your boyfriend gives me a very bad impression, has questionable opinions and has a poor understanding of social limits"?

Either you dismount the horse or you admit you're so backwards you're on Jow Forums looking for fucking tact, but don't play this 'am denny, am better u' act-- nobody's buying it. You're a social retard who's mad at another social retard who just happens to be getting laid.

Either confront her and tell her of your discomforts or keep making excuses; you seem to be particularly good at the latter so I know what I'm expecting.

>falling on deaf ears anyway
>inb4 100 posts

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Dude. Relax.
I explained in the second post how the situation is more complicated / the kind of person 'Rosie' is. She would not take your
>"Your boyfriend gives me a very bad impression, has questionable opinions and has a poor understanding of social limits"?
well at all, and would shut down, tell him, and it would cause a big conflict both within our friend group, and probably make her even closer to him "you and me vs the world" kind of thing
I appreciate though that you are taking the time to actually write a tactful statement. I obviously want to say these things, but it's just how to craft it, get her in the right mindset in order to receive the feedback, and things that I should / should not say/mention

If I was talking to one of my guy friends, no duh, I would just fucking say what needed to be say with no beating around the bush.
If I knew how to handle this situation, I wouldn't be here asking for advice.

I do not think she would handle/like/appreciate/consider a direct confrontation / 1 on 1 conversation, especially from me. Although we are 'best' friends, her true best friend / her husband are probably the only people that could get away with it (which is one of the options I'm considering)

To paraphrase a wall of text, your problems are beyond your scope and if Rosie is 25 and can't take feedback/have a civil discussion, she needs meds, psych help and a serious wake-up call to both of those things. I don't know what to tell you.
Being able to have difficult discussions in a civil, approachable manner isn't just a necessary skill, it's basically the mark of an adult. And if she's not an adult, you can't treat her like one, so all you guys can really do is sabotage that shit or watch from afar as it crashes and burns.
Either you watch, or you bring this up to her. If she's going to react badly to negative connotation regarding her or her man, no amount of tact short of lying through your fucking teeth will save you or her from herself.

T'is the quandary of adulthood. If you are an adult, then you respect your own autonomy and hope others would too-- but then, with the perspective to see problems, when do you encroach on another's autonomy? When would you want it done? Tough, tough questions.
Unfortunately, if there's no way to have the discussion plain as day, then there's nothing to be had.

As a first step, have you talked to everyone in the friend group who's on your side? It can be half the battle just knowing everyone's on one page. And if you can get there, maybe you can get Rosie convinced that you guys genuinely care and worry.

I still think you're a goddam donut, though.

My buddy's ex fucked a guy in the basement at a party we were at. One of my friends saw the guy and her go down there, then heard her moaning. He cut all of us out of his life after we told him. Blocked all of our numbers. Won't talk to any of us.

Some people are delusional, weak people. As long as you're honest, though, that's really all you can do in life imo. Fuck it.

She's incredibly intelligent - but when it comes to people or pets that she loves she can be irrational, and is very stubborn, to where even when she knows she is wrong she will stick to it out of principle. She is completely capable of having tough conversations, but perhaps not about him or her (vicious) dog [I watched her dog go out of its way to try and attack a 6 week old black lab puppy]

I absolutely want to bring it up to her, but I want to do so in a way that shows her that I am only coming from a place of love and concern for her welfare, without any chance of causing a rift in our friendship.
For me, I would want one of my best friends to tell me the truth, no matter how hard of a truth it would be. However; I don't think following the golden rule is always right. You should treat others as they want to be treated, not as how you would want to be treated. I don't think she would want me to say anything (seeing as she wouldn't even tell a best friend they smelled consistently bad at a 7 out of 10 level, only at 8! [as explained in second post]

As to talking to everyone in the group to see where people stand, I feel like this would be worse / really shitty to do (as others in this thread have already tried to argue that I had done) I think in order for me to take it to that level I would need to witness something more serious. I don't want it to turn into a group think gossip and hate him kind of thing. For all I know, they could get married and then this would forever hang that I had talked to the whole group about it, and it would become more of a me vs them kind of thing. I am not closed off to talking to my other friends about it, and would do it if I see it escalate further.

I do agree with the virtue of honesty, but I don't know about unprompted honesty, especially about something like this.
Example: "You have a little B.O." vs "Do I smell right now?" "Yes, you have a little B.O."
I may just have to wait until she asks me

Sounds like you know what to do then, leave it until she asks.

You could try to lightly hint at it, like "he sure likes you answer for you haha", in a joking way, and see how she reacts, but if you can't really directly confront her it wouldn't be a good idea to consistently throw shots at him like that.

You can't both tell her her bf is shit and not tell her her bf is shit at the same time, no matter how you phrase it I think.

Christ this sounds like a 17 year old girl drama, and you're supposed to be in your late 20s?

Stop trying to manipulate the relationship behind the scenes. If he does something you dont approve of, confront him about it in the moment. Your examples about his "abusiveness" or "Racism" don't sound like anything more than a run of the mill obnoxious and impolite person, not unusual for guys in their 30s who are still dating. On a board like Jow Forums where anything can be embellished without consequence, something that sounds mundane definitely is.

"W-well he doesnt hand his coat to her and he watches u-um fox news" cmon dude...

It's not any of your business, and the cheating analogy is a false equivalence. If you caught him slapping her, or muttering about the day of the rope, sure, but it really just sounds like your friend group doesnt approve of the bf and is projecting on him

Fucking Redditor copypaste kys faggot

Literally none of that is abusive, user. Are you an idiot? He's a bit over-controlling. Boohoo. None of this, however, implies that she objects to this behavior, that he isn't joking when he does this stuff, or that she cannot leave the situation because of deep fear, which is, you know, the very definition of abuse. Admit it, fucker, you're either baiting or a beta orbiter who wants to fuck this girl and is angry someone you perceive as "worse" than you gets to fuck her.
>She's incredibly intelligent - but when it comes to people or pets that she loves she can be irrational, and is very stubborn, to where even when she knows she is wrong she will stick to it out of principle.
Goddamn, I thought you had to be 18 to post. "Saving" her from her "awful situation" that she chooses to be in without objection isn't going to get you free pussy. White knights, I swear to God.

Sjw detected. Are you the fat larp in the group?

Mind your own business, thot

>I'm libertarian myself - have nothing against conservatives

I believe you. I really do.

There nothing really wrong with the guy.

> I did not stir shit up within the group. The shit was already stirred, and I was just unaware. I talked to her best friend who told me that all of these people had talked to her about him already (she just informed me that the shit was already stirred)

This whole thing is because of your intolerant politics. You own this.

Pop quiz. If it turns out your friends actually preferred conservatism to your liberal talking points, would that ruin you? Serious question.

Lol it makes sense now, you're just a cuck

>(quick story: be at New Years Eve celebration, watching the ball drop festivities on TV, he looks over and taps me on the shoulder "Haha dude is that rapper white or black??" I laugh uncomfortably and don't answer. He asks me AGAIN "Dude is that rapper white or black??" with a huge smile on his face, like he's making a great joke. Again, I say nothing. He asks me a THIRD time and I finally say "Dude I don't give a fuck what race he is" immediately, super defensive he goes "Of course not! It's not like I care either!" changes the subject)
Wtf there was nothing wrong with this you goddamn pansy.

I think you need to be more aware of why people pegged you for a female. The fact you are oblivious to this is telling.

Men generally dont get catty over interpersonal drama. Most men in public can live with a difference in opinions. Women however do get divisive and bitchy when Kathy doesnt share the same opinions or like the same things. You being a dude only tells us youre a white knight beta orbiter who thinks they need to make decisions for other people especially women. When other women in the group see you and your need to regulate their actions thats just gonna drive them away from you. You will eventually come to ostracize yourself from your friends.

Maybe it would have been better if I havent told you. I actually enjoy the karma a lot of my liberal peers are getting recently and seeing one more isolated from the group really makes no difference to me. Consider it an opportunity to fix your optics. See the big picture that politics are always gonna change, theres always gonna be another reason added to the laundry list to hate X or Y party and those details are incredibly minor in comparison to the lifelong relationships a lot of people are wasting due to the recent election cycle.

>Being able to have difficult discussions in a civil, approachable manner isn't just a necessary skill, it's basically the mark of an adult.

Which applies to OP as well

>And if she's not an adult, you can't treat her like one, so all you guys can really do is sabotage that shit or watch from afar as it crashes and burns.

Another beta orbiter. Yikes!

So what you're saying is that your friend has her first serious boyfriend ever in her mid 20's and you want to break them up--not because he hits her or because he's a heroine addict or because he cheats on her but because you don't like his politics. Think about that.