If God loved every one of us and believing in Jesus was somehow required to get to Heaven...

>So who is the fallen angel everybody talks about?
It's a bad translation. Sons of EL = elohim.

Lucifer was a Roman word translated for some sun god of the dawn (twin gods dusk and dawn) who were the sons of EL.

Idiot gnostic-masons-luciferians still think it's fucking "Lucifer" which was a Latin word for the planet venus at dawn.

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Revelation 20:12
“And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.”
It isn't hard to know what to look for the moment you study it...If you need someone to keep spoon feeding you that means you aren't willing to learn yourself on how to be saved.
store.kjv1611.org/bible-baptist-bookstore-hardcover-ruckman-reference-bible/
This is one of the best books desu Dr. Ruckman explains a lot of great things desu user.
youtube.com/watch?v=6dVX-Y8lcQc&t=2s
and
youtube.com/watch?v=4qFpv0uiYYk

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Revel in ignorance, for Gnosis is liberating knowledge.

>Do I really deserve to be tied to a pole and have a bird pluck out chunks of my internal organs all day for all eternity just because of that?
yes we all deserve hell for all of our sins

Every struggle you have is a test that your God has given you. Some addictions to things that do not further your life can become hell, and only through God can you make Heaven on Earth.

Then why doesn't God send everybody to Hell if that's the correct moral outcome?

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>Every struggle you have is a test that your God has given you
Then why do some people receive more struggles than others, even immediately after being born? Is God unfair?

Because God is merciful and gave us the free gift of salvation if we want it

>Is God unfair?
life is not fair

1 Corinthians 10:13
“There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.”
It is all in the Bible friend...I mean you guys are just entertaining but this is all said in the Bible.

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If we deserve punishment, then wouldn't God be being immoral by not giving us exactly what we deserve?

Why does God want life to be unfair?

God can send you a miracle but you will still be a piece of shit tommorow . That is the gist of it you need to be reborn , that does not work with miracles , even peter rejected Jesus in the end while he saw him raise the dead

>be being immoral
God defines what is moral
Why should it be fair?

Jesus was the miracle. It happened. He lives. Accept it.

God is neither good nor evil. God is the state of the eternal universe, where upon matter is recycled in a form of reincarnation through cell death. As good and evil are foreign concepts, God is only about the furtherance of life, of which intelligent life could be a higher form. Work for work's sake is not, nor is violence not in self defense. Basically, help more life spread in the world, preferably while not ruining the host planet. Eventually go to other worlds. Life sucks, and people will die, and some will get fucked by not paying attention to the end goal of intelligent life.

He sent hundreds of prophets, angels, and even his son over several thousand years. How many fucking more do you need? He keeps sending them and you keep asking for more and more, Romans 1 says it best, you are implaccable, it will never ever be enough for you to believe.

> Do I really deserve to be tied to a pole and have a bird pluck out chunks of my internal organs all day for all eternity just because of that?
Yes, read the bible, He explains it perfectly, it's your fault for not educating yourself on the subject and using your own 2019 society imbued "morality" to make these judgments. Your full of arrogance and pride.

Ultimately user, when it comes to causing/alleviating the suffering of others and trying to be a positive influence in the world you can either be benevolent, ambivalent, or malevolent.

Here's a clip from justice league that I found amusing because even though "Hawk Girl" is technically classified as an Alien, she's also telling the truth even though she thinks shes lying.

youtu.be/AaXak5tgMlA?t=30

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>God defines what is moral
Does his behavior define morality, or his word? Because he's acting differently to what he outlines in the Bible as morally correct.

If you were the principal of a school would you make disabled kids take AP courses?

>He sent hundreds of prophets, angels, and even his son over several thousand years.
That would imply, if there are, say, tens of angels, each angel only comes every hundred years or so. Why are they so fucking lazy?
>How many fucking more do you need?
Enough so that I might see a miracle with my own eyes and not have to rely on other people who may or may not be lying or victims of hallucinations.
Or better yet, send one Angel to make miracles in a lab to be studied by scientists.

If failing the test means you get tortured forever, I would send none of them to those courses. I would disband the whole fucking school.

>Is God unfair?

No , earth is punishment for many, heaven is the reward . I am a demon and i have had the worse life you wont imagine . but my 2 brothers wife , kids , good jobs they are probably human or have done less evil in their former lifes. Some people lives are just punishment

>he's acting differently to what he outlines in the Bible as morally correct.
how?

Wrong. God is Good and only knows good. That is why when he judges sinners he doesn't know them.
Luke 13:27
“But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.”
Jesus aka God has no sin no evil no bad in him.
2 Corinthians 5:21
“For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.”

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See

Because He did. Thousands of years ago. Hell, He directly spoke to us. He told us what we could and could not do. Guess what we did. We did exactly what He told us not to.

Just shut up and get on your knees and beg for forgiveness you filthy swine. Jesus will save even your soul.

I don't mean just one miracle. I mean enough to remove all doubt from everyone but the most mentally ill.
Everybody believes when you drop an object, it falls, because every one of us has experienced that thousands of times. Why not make miracles as widespread as that, so as to convince 99% of the population?
And why does he need us to believe in him to not be tortured in Hell forever anyways?

But dont tell Christians this ......

And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth.

John 9
>2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?

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>Revel in ignorance, for Gnosis is liberating knowledge.
No it's Jewish Alexandrian mysticism that turned Christian after Christians moved there and started stealing from Plato instead of the Stoics. You're a pleb. Level up to philosophy like a big boy and stop with the sex magic

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It's called Faith, moron, not science.

I do convince myself to believe in God sometimes and ask for forgiveness (not on my knees though), but the next day I wake up and I can't get to believe in all the nonsense anymore.

Uruguay Bro, read the catechism, you seem to have a lot of question recently
>If God loved every one of us and believing in Jesus was somehow required to get to Heaven, wouldn't he send an angel to try to prove to everybody that he exists and Jesus is indeed his son? Wouldn't he personally show a miracle to every person on the face of Earth to remove all doubt?
The point of religion is in faith m8, to be fully submitted to God even in temptation, if God simply gave guarantees, people wouldn't be submitted to his will. Read the catholic catechism. It's a 10/10 book and will unironically answer this questions

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>Jesus was the miracle. It happened. He lives. Accept it.
lol begging

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>No , earth is punishment for many, heaven is the reward
There's only one way out anti-life anti-nature gnostic

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You're looking for irrefutable proof, of which, you can't get any. It doesn't exist.

I see the evil all around me so I have to believe in God.

So you really dont want to accept the answer?

then i am done here

If goy actually followed the teachings of Jesus, jews would have zero power in this world.

>"No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money."

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Thank you for your time, Satan. I know you've been busy killing babies and changing kids genders so we're glad you could stop by.

If you are looking for rationality around it, you should study theology and greek/thomist philosophy. There is a rationality behind it, but most protestants/baptists neglect it due to theological differences. First read the catechism as I said, then later read the bible studies by Scott Hahn if you want to get deep on the bible. Do you know how to pray the rosary m8? It's tough to convert that quickly, but the steps you are taking are a good first step

God telling people to do something does not mean he has to

That bullshit you have 2 religions mixed up but one needs Jesus Christ to escape . Humans can just be righteous and go to heaven , while spirit beings indeed are trapped here

Why would Jesus call him that when every other Jew was calling him YHWH? The Torah was finalized into its final, official version four and half centuries earlier, and the rabbinical period of Judaism was well under way.

Again, why does he require that we figure it out by ourselves to not be tortured forever? Why can't I be dumb, morally fallible, an edgy fedora, etc. without being tortured forever by him? Heck, even if I'm a decent person, why can't I do my own thing and believe whatever I want to believe without him telling me to believe this one thing or else eternal torture?
That doesn't make sense to me.
If God defines morality and torturing people forever for dumb reasons is moral just because he does it, why isn't his morality just as valid as some random SJW's morality? Does being the strongest bully in the block really define what's moral and right?
There's a difference between being mostly correct and being completely correct. The Bible can be correct about mostly everything except the metaphysical stuff.

That is actually Gods doing , disobey God and get wrecked , you give Satan to much credit

So what is Heaven like? What if I go up there and I don't like it?
And why can literal murderer pedophiles go there if they happen to repent the day before they die? That doesn't sound like such a nice place if it has those kinds of people.

>The Bible can be correct about mostly everything except the metaphysical stuff.
The metaphysical stuff is literally not taught at all in the bible. Your OP is some interpretation of shit catholic priests teach. Just read the new testament, its that simple. Dont listen to priests, you dont need to go to church unless its for the community. There should be no 3rd party interpreting the bible for you.

Because He didn't create usa to be robots obeying every order we're given. He created us to have a relationship with. He gave us free will and the authority to make our own decisions.

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But Jesus tells us (I'm paraphrasing here of course) he didn't come to replace the old law, only to complement it or something like that.

>Again, why does he require that we figure it out by ourselves to not be tortured forever? Why can't I be dumb, morally fallible, an edgy fedora, etc. without being tortured forever by him? Heck, even if I'm a decent person, why can't I do my own thing and believe whatever I want to believe without him telling me to believe this one thing or else eternal torture?
Because of submission my friend. God wants you to figure out by yourself the truth about the world. If everything was easily handed out, nobody would submit themselves to God. The point of civilization and natural truth is by reinforcing it, not simply by understanding it. It's like teaching a child that humans can't fly and the child tries to fly anyway despite knowing that is impossible. The only way to truly know and follow the truth is by suffering and understanding it. The myth of Adam and Eve is the best example of it. God created Eden and humanity in perfect harmony and happiness with him, and tempted by the Snake, humans tried to become God by eating the forbidden fruit, which resulted in the current state of affairs that we live right now
>metaphysical stuff is not taught at the bible
>the state of baptist theology
holy shit

We have free will until we die and then he kidnaps us and send us as theme park attractions at some torture disneyland for demons for some arbitrary reasons he made up.
Doesn't sound like such a big deal desu, would rather have it on clear terms from the very beginning.

God died for you he loves you. He doesn't want you to suffer. That is why he became flesh, was without sin, suffered, died, and rose on the third day according to the scriptures...he will judge the living and the dead and so will saved people...your works will be judged if you are purely worldly and don't care to be morally and spiritually good you will not be known by God and will be tossed into the Recycling Bin. The programmer aka the creator doesn't want corrupt files aka sinners.
Revelation 21:8
“But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.”

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Wait, so we're still supposed to sacrifice our perfect sheep? Shit.

>And why can literal murderer pedophiles go there if they happen to repent the day before they die?
Only if they truly repent, repentance is virtue of the soul, not really something concrete. If you simply pretend to repent at the confessionary, you won't repent at all

>God wants you to figure out by yourself the truth about the world. If everything was easily handed out, nobody would submit themselves to God.
If he showed himself and Hell as 100% real he would get much more submission from literally everybody, even Christians.

Jesus taught, "behold, the kingdom of God is within you." Luke 17:21

>>metaphysical stuff is not taught at the bible
>>the state of baptist theology
Specifically referring to the statements made in the OP

You are in the flesh now , how would you know what you would do as a spirit ? The fallen angels wants to return there so it probably awesome right ? .... Maybe if you would die right now you want to return there.

>And why can literal murderer pedophiles go there if they happen to repent the day before they die?

That is a strawman but they cant . read the bible and about the apostles it took them 3 years and they still were not there and some betrayed Jesus . Repentance takes a long time and has to be genuine

It's not some outward display. Jesus has to be encountered and experienced within. All of Scripture is written in code and is designed as a tool for you to find God within yourself and do away with illusion. This is why Jesus says that the Kingdom of Heaven is WITHIN YOU. God is not up in the clouds somewhere, He is the root of human consciousness itself.

Amusement rides? Kidnaps us? Arbitrary rules? What are you talking about?

It is on clear terms. Either accept that Christ died for your sins or burn forever in hell desu.

>If he showed himself and Hell as 100% real he would get much more submission from literally everybody, even Christians.
Do you understand what the Holy Spirit is? Also to understand something metaphysical as real requires faith my friend. How can you define something as real? Just because it shows on your face? So air isn't real?

If he made the world, is omnipotent, and is who defines what is moral in the first place, why would he need to send somebody to suffer rather than just abolish Hell?
Or why doesn't he make it incremental, such that if you sin once you get sent to Hell for a week, if you sin twice you get sent there for a month, sin again and get sent there for a year, etc.
Wouldn't that have more impact than allowing people to sin a shit ton of times, and then torturing you forever after you were kidnapped by him and it wasn't possible for you to sin anymore anyways?

This is not faith

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This is mental illness

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But there are legit

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>burn forever in hell desu
We burn forever in Hell because God sends us there. Or are you disputing that? Being sent somewhere involuntarily is being kidnapped, isn't it?
>Arbitrary rules?
Yes. He supposedly can send you to Hell for such stupid things as denying somebody is the son of somebody else. Does that really warrant eternal torture, or is it arbitrary?
>It is on clear terms.
Being the biggest bully on the block doesn't make your actions moral or not arbitrary.

Christians ,who think this is how Cristianity is

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>claims God is omnipotent and is omnipotent, and is who defines what is moral in the first place
>cries about being the biggest bully on he block and it doesn't make your actions moral

grow some balls lad and stop anthropomorphizing God and telling what God should do

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>God is only moral if he agrees with me
Sounds like you think you're God.

He doesn't send us there. We can't be allowed into heaven because we have sinned. Therefore, our debt is to Satan.

Sin is sin. Lying, stealing, murder. All of it ends up in a one way trip to hell. Doesn't matter what is warranted, it's what God says. If a robot that we programmed kills a human after we told it not to, are you going to bring it home or crush it?

Bully? You're talking about you're creator. Your parents gave birth to you and punished you. Do you consider them bullies?

>wouldn't he send an angel to try to prove to everybody that he exists and Jesus is indeed his son?
He did. When Jesus was born. Meanwhile we have His word to us. Which is truth, and Christians have spread the His word to the world. He gave us the task. Which is an honor.
> Wouldn't he personally show a miracle to every person on the face
He did work many miracles. He stopped after Jesus died. He's pissed off and we'd all be annihilated in wrath if not for Jesus.
> Why would he send people to be literally tortured forever
We do this to ourselves. He made it extremely easy to be saved. Christ can remove our sins. We can not. We are guilted by it. It is weight. It drags us down. God can not be in the presence of sin. The kingdom can not contain it. The torture is simply separation from God. Who is life. You will go away from the light, towards the darkness and in that place, you will reside.
> Do I really deserve to be tied to a pole and have a bird pluck out chunks of my internal organs
Yea well we're not talking about Greek or Roman mythology dipshit.

Except he violates his own rules give to us in the Bible.
>Therefore, our debt is to Satan.
Why? What has Satan done for me for me to be eternally indebted to him?
>Bully? You're talking about you're creator. Your parents gave birth to you and punished you. Do you consider them bullies?
If my parents locked me up in a basement and tortured me for the rest of my life without recourse for violating one of their rules, yes, I would consider them bullies.

>Why? What has Satan done for me for me to be eternally indebted to him?

I murdered you

are you retarded? are the rules for us or God?

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Satan tempted you to commit sin. That's what he's done for you.

I'm not asking you if some parents locked someone in a basement, I'm asking about you, the individual I'm having a discussion with. I wouldn't use that metaphor with someone who locked them in a basement obviously.

whoopsie you should have been immortal

> 3But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. 4And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: 5For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

>If he made the world, is omnipotent, and is who defines what is moral in the first place, why would he need to send somebody to suffer rather than just abolish Hell?
Hell was made for the Devil and the Fallen angels...the sinners who choose to die with them will die and suffer with them...
>kidnapped
This is his world and you are living in it...you aren't kidnapped you are put here by the creator and he does what he wants since he owns it. If the creations thinks they should worship the creations instead of the creator than the creator has a right to inflict justice or do whats right since respect needs to be given to the King of Kings and Lord of Lords. God makes the rules...he knows all possible outcomes...why would he make you suffer for 2 months for you to come out after? You are suffering now in the world of Satan are you not? Disease, misery, pain, sadness, despair, sins.....this is suffering enough for me and I want out so I am going with God the creator the one who died for me and loves me. I love him for that. You can do what you want. The books will be opened and you will bow before God and speak your life and you won't be able to lie and if you truly are wicked you will not be known by him BUT if you say Jesus died for you and believe it and lived a good life he will know you...speak to him daily...ask for forgiveness every time you know you did wrong...ask for guidance so he will know you.

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> Hell was made for the Devil and the Fallen angels
Some have speculated we're not supposed to go there at all. Hell wasn't made for us. It was made for fallen angels who are very powerful. Thus the intensity of hell as a punishment.
But we were never to go. Some say the fact we do, is almost unintentional.

>and we'd all be annihilated in wrath if not for Jesus.
Isn't Jesus God himself? How can Jesus and God have different attitudes towards us, then?
>We do this to ourselves. He made it extremely easy to be saved.
If it was so easy, why do atheists exist? When the evidence for God's existence and eternal damnation is so clear, could there be any reason to want to be tortured forever in Hell other than mental illness? Is it ethical for God to torture us forever just because we are mentally ill and can't see that we're setting up ourselves for eternal torture?

> Isn't Jesus God himself?
No. He's part of the Trinity. Three Gods in one power. He prayed to His father. Not to Himself.
> If it was so easy, why do atheists exist?
Because sin, and the love of the world, keeps them from doing something simple.

Ok. You define morality as the rules given to us by God. Let's say I define morality as the rules given to you by me. How is your definition any more valid than mine?

Because Jesus was also part man. And he had sympathy and love for us.

What are you talking about mentally ill? Just because someone doesn't believe in something, doesn't make them mentally ill. I don't believe in Santa Claus, and I'm not mentally ill.

>Because sin, and the love of the world, keeps them from doing something simple.
So your theory is that atheists love sin so much that they're consciously willing to be tortured forever just for the opportunity to sin for a few decades here on Earth?
If atheists love the world so much, why do some of them kill themselves instead of keep experiencing the world and sin for the few years they have here on Earth? Do they prefer to be tortured by Satan rather than be here on earth?

God says "for without faith, I am nothing". If he came down to earth and proved to everyone that he existed he would eliminate faith, and thus cease to exist (the word of god is infailable after all). It's simple logic.

>If it was so easy, why do atheists exist?

i know you dont listen but great keks will be had on the day of judgment when it turns out i posted all these red pills

Atheism is gods doing for the end times , Atheism is actually Gods true religion . For without God you are ???

>mfw on the great day

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