The obvious negation of the claim "There is no free will."

Every argument against the existence of free will goes something like this:

1. If God foreknows that I will do X, then I will do X.
2. God foreknows that I will do X.
3. Therefore, it is necessarily the case that I will do X.

This commits a fallacy in modal logic. 3 doesn't follow from the premises, namely, the "necessarily" part, which seems to magically pop up out of nothing. All that follows is that you will do X; it doesn't however follow that you necessarily will do X, i.e. that you have to do X. For example, you could do differently and God's foreknowledge would simply be different.

>b-but this must be a straw man because it shows that i'm retarded

It may be hard to believe that the purveyors of what you've been told is a prevailing viewpoint could all be retarded, but they are, retarded, which is easy to accept if you understand they have ulterior, evil motives. But to accept that, you'd first have to accept the possibility that you've been duped and are thus yourself retarded.

Adding specifics of what God has foreknowledge, such as that you're going to hell when He created you, is simply irrelevant and at best an appeal to emotion, i.e. it doesn't magically make the "necessarily" follow from the premises. If you're so retarded that you can't even accept your rejection of God as your will, then it looks like the system works, because you'd not exactly be a great addition.

This obviously doesn't prove free will exists, just your stupid bullshit for why it doesn't is wrong.

Just because claims like "Free will is an illusion," may sound hokey and spooky to brainlets, doesn't mean it's a statement founded in intelligence. Neither are you of particular intellect if habitually confusing perceived spookiness with intelligence, or sacrifice of meaning altogether with mental fortitude and soundess of thought.

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Wow fascinating, not

Your mastery of irony is impressive or you should kill yourself.

Why not both?

desu caring about free will is fucking retarded.

I've never even had anyone present me a workable definition of WHAT free will is - whenever they present one, I am able to either show that it is something that logically makes no sense to even conceive of.

The idea of "free will" is a fucking linguistic trap played on our cognition.

>Every argument against the existence of free will goes something like this:

Every argument made by american brainlets.

Its a sad thing to see these retard american Christians try to justify their lunacy with (what they think its) "logic", but they just come up with pathetic strawman mixed with, mostly misplaced, technical jargon.

Free-will does not exist because all your actions and thoughts are determined electro-chemical reactions in your brain. There is no god in the equation.

It seems pretty obvious how free will is defined. You're merely demanding a definition that's readily apparent because you don't have any arguments. It's a brainlet deflection tactic. "Free," here, simply means of one's own volition, or freedom of potential, i.e. if one can do something, they may.

fucking American educational system.
In italy this shit is studied when you're 16-17 yo through history and philosophy.
Well, start studying from socrates (I don't remember the ideology of pre socrates philosophers tho)

my suit is black not

>Free-will does not exist because all your actions and thoughts are determined electro-chemical reactions in your brain.
This isn't an argument, idiot. You must explain just why these things are mutually exclusive. You've just claimed the equivalent of "The brain works on physical mechanisms, therefore we don't freely affect those mechanisms." Your stupidity will cause much suffering in this world.

If you think you've learned the answer in school and that there is therefore no ongoing academic debate, you need to die.

"We" don't exist outside our brains. The reactions on your brain produce your entire sense of self. There is nothing about you which exist outside these mechanisms to affect them, you retard.

retard, this shit isn't some new problem. There are many theories based on cristianity and not.
Just read some and make a real idea, and don't try to make a "debate" without knowing anything or with a predictable idea.

You've just made three consecutive claims with no relation to one another. An argument take a premise and explains why the premise is true. It doesn't make successive claims and proceed to pretend like they've said anything worth hearing.
>There is nothing about you which exist outside these mechanisms to affect them, you retard.
"It's physical, therefore it's only physical," isn't sufficient to answer this question, you stupid spastic fuck.

if youre going to do a big ass post like these please do an intro, body and conclusion, it's hard to follow if I have to assume there may be some errors

I'm not making a debate. That's not possible. I've explained a solid refutation of an oft-propounded argument here. How old the problem is irrelevant.

Are you low-key insulting me because I didn't use the hamburger method?

the question being "Why"

Both physicalism and belief in an all knowing and all powerful God lead to determinism.
Not all physical processes operate on 100% determinism however, we can never know exacly where every electron is, so we can't predict the future for quantum processes.

is there free will? yes, so I do whatever I want limited by laws and moral

is there free will? no.
is that a bad thing? no, so I continue to live without any regrets: I don't have any reason to rebel from it.
is that a bad thing? Yes.

can I rebel? no, so I continue to live my life
can I rebel? Y- no, you can't. If you don't have a free will, how can you determinate if you rebellion is free will? Ok, you can make a pascal like bet: "I bet everything that free will doesn't exist" and then? If you don't bet everything, you don't really believe in free will. If you bet everything, this includes your life: what's the meaning of being a puppet? nothing, just kys.

>belief in an all knowing and all powerful God lead to determinism
If by determinism you mean not-free will, this is what the OP refutes. God foreknowing your actions doesn't itself determine them. You'll need a better argument to rationally go on believing that.

Mandatory

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My intent is not to insult you but it would be more beneficial if you stated a thesis first.

>is that a bad thing?
Who cares if it's a bad thing. Your inclusion of this in your thought process indicates you think belief there is no free will is some noble thing, the nobility and sacrifice of which you've probably stupidly confused with intelligent or rational discernment of reality, as pre-refuted and properly stepped on in the OP that you apparently did not read.

It's kind of hard to come up with a thesis when the entire post is "You're wrong."

that is part of my point, how can I be wrong if I haven't stated anything to you yet, you assume an a priori a thesis and provide a convoluted counterthesis, which is basically a sophisticated straw man. So what's the point and what's your point.

You can easily get around the predetermination of God's knowledge by declaring that God is outside of time, and therefore if you already committed an act freely he knows of it but doesn't interfere because then you wouldn't be free.

I get right to the enemy's thesis, immediately. My dictating what the argument fundamentally is, and proceeding to destroy it, doesn't necessarily mean it's a straw man. Straw mans? are necessarily inaccurate. Just because the presented argument, in all it's popularity, is retarded and shown to be retarded, doesn't mean anything I've said here is a straw man. Now stop pussyfooting and get to the logical conclusion of your insult so I can call you an idiot already. Or is that it? You sound like a teenager experimenting with the authority of newly-learned words like "convoluted."

pseudointellectual thread

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Fedoraniggers are retards. Free will exists. Consequence-free worlds do not. You have the choice to act on retarded decisions.

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