Anti abortionists are easily dismissed as religious

What else prevents criminality? Taking freedom from people. See North Korea. No criminality.

Your means are unethical.

Men should be able to reject parenthood and legal obligations, as women can by choosing abortion.

Have you observed rarely these people support killing old people for similar reasons they want to kill fetus?

Maybe they just know they are becoming old and children again, and they will be dependent on other people's children.

I'm simply stating the way it is. Abortion provides more benefit to the United States than harm. Therefore, it should stay. I never argued over whether it was "ethical" or not. If an added benefit of reducing the amount of minority births in the United States is less kids raised by single mothers, who statistically are more likely to commit crime and drain resources than those with two parents, I won't be shedding any tears. In a perfect world abortion wouldn't be needed. But we don't live in a perfect world.

Pretty much sums it up, we are born when we are conceived and there is no solution of continuity at parturition

>4. Humans, for survival purposes or other shitty non-relevant to this discussion purposes, decided to give value to human life, leaving cows to become delicious hamburgers.
>5. This value was inscribed into law and made absolute.
Its not absolute. In some circumstances murder and warfare and even cannibalism is evolutionarily advantageous. Humans just made laws to codify an instinct for human preservation or at least in group preservation. In most cases killing people hurts your gene's chances of spreading but not in all cases.
>7. Cognition is the reason for which human life merits value. The human genome has a predictability of over 99.9999% to yield individuals capable of cognition.
Cognition has nothing to do with it. It is just an adaption to ensure your genes survival.

Life has no absolute or universal value. It has a subjective value to humans because our genes tell us in most cases we should value human life. In the case of abortion you are literally killing off copies of your genes. That's what's wrong with it. However there is no logical reason to oppose some sheboon or mudshark getting an abortion

My issues with abortion are its implications in the degradation of society and destruction of the nuclear family.

>promiscuity
>promiscuity without consecuences
>promiscuity without consecuences as a women's right
>promiscuity without consecuences as a women's right that government and society must endorse
>pregnancy as a process with no consecuences
>pregnancy as a removable inconvenience
>pregnancy termination as a procedure with no consecuences
>pregnancy termination as a business
>no father involvement, pregnancy termination as an exclusive decision of the mother

>no father involvement, pregnancy termination as an exclusive decision of the mother
That is already a thing. At least in the United States. Some states even allow minors to get abortions without notifying anyone.

Abortion is a Jewish trick to make responsible people stop breeding while low iq poortards breed like insects.
When you live in a third world country it becomes very noticeable the toxic effect of abortion.
Abortion needs to be free and encouraged for the lowest classes.

Here's 2:
1) legal abortion gives women the upper hand in custody battles and encourages the creation of single mothers. Men who try to get out of fatherhood automatically get rekt by the courts for good reason. The problem is that this encourages women to act like they'd abort a kid in order to get a guy to get them pregnant.
2) Legal abortion fucks over not only the children aborted but many of the childred who weren't. The reason is that many(or most) fathers try to get their sons/daughters aborted. A man who tries to get his child killed will NEVER be a good father for psycological reason including his subconsious desire to be "proven right" in the end thus causing him to sabotage the lives of his kids. Shit like cognitive dissonance plays a role too since the man has to both justify being a good father while justifying his past attempts to kill his kid(s).

In the end, legal abortion makes men shittier fathers and creates more single mothers. This fucks over not only the kids who were aborted but also many(if not most in this modern world) who weren't due to their fathers being failed men who, in order to me psychologically at ease, are terrible fathers.

No matter how much liberals bitch about women's "choices", the fact is that those "choices" can be manipulated or even coerced by men. This is a fact. As a result, most abortions are probably the father's choice and its a wake up call for women not to do what men try to convince them to do. Also, men will always try to be the decider in these matters and thus men will often try to get out of fatherhood even when they won't succeed. This leads to men being shit fathers.

The ideal solution: find every father who tried to get at least one of his children aborted and line the fuckers up against a wall and execute them. If this kills too many men, then bring in good migrants to replace them.

>>no father involvement, pregnancy termination as an exclusive decision of the mother
In practice, that's not really the case. In fact, most abortions are due to pressure from the father. That's an inconvenient fact they don't like admitting.

But you forgot 1 other major problem with abortion: it turns fathers against their children. By waving the lie that one can get out of fatherhood just by pressuring a wife/gf to kill the child, legal abortion incentivises men to try to get their kid(s) aborted. When they try and fail, they end up never being good fathers since they know for a fact that they tried to kill their children. As with anyone who does something stupid and evil, cognative dissonance causes them to try to justify their actions. This leads to them being shitty fathers who try to sabotage the lives of their children in order to "justify" their desire that their kids be killed. Courts know this which is why courts give custody to the parent who didn't want the kids killed(often the mother since, the ease of legal abortion basically "proves" that she wanted the kids born).

The onions problem is, probably more than anyone wants to admit, an issue of fathers trying to get their sons aborted and failing thus encouraging their sons to become faggots who live with their mothers.

would you abort a dog’s puppies?

No, that's animal abuse

>free and encouraged for the lowest classes.
Except then you have the problem of losing your pool of people who will move up the social ladder. Killing off the poor and the crude only results in you having to import people from elsewhere. Also, in order to justify your eugenics project without radically changing the legal system, you basically have to say that human life is cheap... and that ends up applying to everyone's kids. Rich assholes will try to get out of fatherhood too.

The best thing to do is just ban abortion. If the population of the underclass increases then there'll be pressure to make things better OR they'll kill each other off.

Most people who are pro-abortion in these threads fall into one shameful category: men who tried to get their own son/daughter aborted, didn't get their way, and ended up getting raped in court for trying to get out of fatherhood. Those losers paying child support with no/limited custody of their own kid(s) then come to threads like this(or to younger people IRL) and then start pushing abortion under the hopes that others will try(and fail) to get out of fatherhood just like themselves and end up in the same position. This is why men who pay child support try to encourage EVERYONE around them to try to get their children aborted. Misery loves company.

At the end of the day, the execution of all men who try to get out of fatherhood would solve this problem, get rid of the shittiest of men who hold society down, and serve as a reminder to future generations that evil has no place.

I theorize that the best way to combat the mass murder of infants is to make it disgusting. Women do not listen to facts or logic. They sense the fashion surrounding them. What is peddled on TV and the internet closes them off from face to face interaction and simulates a community that they have to conform to. As the Jewish media forces their fashion oriented minds to conform, they lose their disgust response to certain things.
Spreading pictures of abortions is the simplest way to combat this. The reason why gore is so important in this instance is to show the unmistakable reality of the pro abortion belief. Eventually, the disgust response will be regained and the fashion will be lost.

Women know abortion is murder. When a liberal feminist goes around pushing abortion like its the greatest thing in the world, you can tell one thing about her: she wouldn't abort her next child but she wants the father of her next child to believe she would even before he fucks her. Feminists believe that the only way to get knocked up is to trick men into thinking that they'll kill the child if they get pregnant. Often this is due to the first sexual relationship they were in where the guy got them pregnant, manipulated them into aborting their kid, and then dumped them. Feminists always want to get back at that man so they act in a way that they think will attract that kind of man. This is a major reason why shitbags like Harvey Weinstein are able to get away with shit for so long even when surrounded by feminists. Each one of those feminists prays for the day they can seduce him, get pregnant, trick him into openly encouraging abortion, and then use that against him during the custody battle while taking lots of his money(or half his stuff if they married him). What the dumb feminists don't understand is that he(and men like him) realizes that too.

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This

But don't forget, women know abortion is murder if they've gotten one. You look at the cognative dissonance and straw-grasping feminists use to justify child murder and you can see people who know its wrong and are trying to justify their past actions while putting on the facade that they'd do it again so that their next boyfriend finds himself becoming a daddy whether he likes it or not.

The most effective way to reduce the numbers of abortion is, surprise surprise, with violence. Many(or probably even most) abortions are due to coercion where the girl really doesn't want to kill the child but she's being manipulated into it. If people shot up abortion clinics more often and killed the patients rather than the doctors, that would greatly reduce the abortion rate due to girls citing safety as a way to refuse to kill their child. I'm not advocating mass shooting and I feel there's a political/legal solution to the problem.

(you)

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How much child support do you have to pay each month for the son/daughter you tried to murder? Its a rhetorical question since we both know you won't openly admit it.

...

Checked, but I don’t get it

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tl;dr women are stoopid

>cognitive dissonance
Agreed. I think the real cruelty of the mind manipulation being done is it makes it fashionable to make decisions you can’t take back. Ie-degenerate fornication, coal burning, sodomy, abortion. Either you shill for your own bad decisions or face your bad decisions, own up to it, and keep from dragging others to your level. But this is an inherently masculine attribute and a difficult one at that. How do we treat these wayward sodomites? I know Jesus sat with the prostitutes at the dinner table, but I can’t help but to have contempt for this group.
>violence
I’m for violence. Very much so. I theorize that, to get the most momentum in a movement, we need to target the perpetrators. At least in that sense, there is a savior morality to muddy the waters. If you target the pregnant women, then you’re shooting yourself in the foot if you’re advocating the prevention of the death of infants. A targetry of the actual murderers and maybe even the logisticians that profit from the infant body parts I think would meet the intent of the conversion of the clinic from a safe to unsafe area.

Must be a lot
>tl;dr women are stoopid
They may be but they end up wising up. Its men who end up looking the dumbest when they're in court getting their ass handed to them because they knocked up a girl who said she never wanted kids and believed her.

>How do we treat these wayward sodomites? I know Jesus sat with the prostitutes at the dinner table, but I can’t help but to have contempt for this group.
The best way is to force people to accept what they've done. Openly tell the young man that women lie and if he thinks he can get sex without children, he'll end up paying child support for a kid he has no custody over. Explain to the kid that men who tell him he can get out of fatherhood are saying that because they tried and now have an invisible leash and collar around their neck being pulled around by one or more women. Men who've tried to get their kids aborted are fuck to terrorize but always remember that its best to do it either very openly in front of a lot of people(so he won't attack you lest he "justifies" your statements) or online. You see a guy with kids he has no custody over, there's nothing wrong with calling him out especially if he tries to dispense with bad advice. You make these men suffer and eventually they won't be able to manipulate others.

>If you target the pregnant women, then you’re shooting yourself in the foot if you’re advocating the prevention of the death of infants.
That's half true. Such violence would save more lives in the end since fewer women would be willing to kill their kids but the optics would look bad. You have to remember why so many women wanted abortion legal in the first place: women were getting killed while trying to kill their own kids. Death from autoerrotic asphyxiation may be the most embarrassing death for men but death from an abortion attempt is the worst fear of women. Women who think they'll die and everyone will hate them for trying to kill a child won't kill that child. Do I think violence is the answer? Yes, but it needs to be done legally. When abortion is banned, all the abortion doctors will practice "medicine" illegally. When that happens, they need to be rounded up, charged with murder, and eliminated.

>A targetry of the actual murderers and maybe even the logisticians that profit from the infant body parts I think would meet the intent of the conversion of the clinic from a safe to unsafe area.
Targetting people violently only works so long as 2 things are true:
1) That they have an easier alternative to the thing they're doing
AND
2) That their death would humiliate them.
The abortion doctor is at the lowest rung of the medical ladder and thus doesn't have a future outside of his petty "profession". As such, violence wouldn't stop him from killing children. He'd just pay more for security and there's plenty of men paying child support for children they wanted killed who'll gladly protect the abortion doctor from violence since there's nothing those men like seeing more than crying women who realized they fucked up big time. As for the second thing, a dead abortion doctor becomes a false martyr in the eyes of liberals.

Now, what about women willing to have their kid killed? The easier alternative for them is to not kill their child. That's why their kid's father put so much effort into pressuring them. Such women would prefer not to kill their kid but only do so because its easy and they've been terrified into it. As for the 2nd factor, no girl would EVER want to be shot to death right before an abortion. That's literally the most shameful way to die. If I had a sister and she got killed while aborting a kid, I wouldn't attend her funeral unless it was to tell everyone else how shitty of a girl she was and how the world is better off without her.

So yeah, while I'm not advocating for violence, violence against the women would be far more effective. Also, the ends would justify the means as a handful of dead children would save the lives of countless other kids. However, there would be a media blackout if anyone ever did that which, if successful, would prevent much of the good

The best thing to do is change the law and jail the babykillers.

>Anti abortionists are easily dismissed as religious

As an atheist, abortion is incompatible with the principle of universal human rights.
It's purely a matter of convenience.

A pregnant woman can never get rid of her child. Once the brain knows it never forgets. Women who have abortions suffer all sorts of mental disorders throughout life. Nobody wants to talk about the mental health aspect of it. The entire pro abortion movement is a predatory one which lures women into self harm that devastates them for the rest of their lives. Just imagine having an abortion and then one day deciding to have your own children. You have to look at them every day and wonder what the aborted child would have been like, lament that loss. It causes depression, anxiety, substance abuse, suicide, etc.

>Nobody wants to talk about the mental health aspect of it.
This
They also try to justify the act in their mind which really fucks them up. While the feminist liberals have their main reason for supporting legal abortion(i.e. that it encourages men to try to get out of fatherhood and thus lose custody battles to women), much of their means to that ends(i.e. saying its a "woman's choice") ends up making women feel like shit who did kill a child. The fact is that most abortions are the result of coersion or manipulation usually from the father of the kid or the woman's/girl's parents. As a result, women are basically forced into something they wouldn't otherwise do and then spend the rest of their life being told that they, and only they, are the guilty one. Feminism has to push that narrative because its effective at getting what they want(i.e. men to lose custody battles and women to take over the world). Feminism, thus, creates the conditions that cause innocent young girls to do things they're always regret just so that older feminists can trick shitty men into getting them knocked up and saying/doing things that'll ensure that the woman wins the custody battle if there is one.

Feminism is evil because it encourages the worst in men which, in the end, hurts young women and only benefits older feminists who use the law against shitty men.

As for how women feel, just outright accuse them of murdering their child and tell them that their excuses are bullshit and you'll see them break down crying. The petty excuses can't cover up the facts.

My odd opinion is that the people often refered to as witches during the middle ages were women who were manipulated into killing a child ususally by having their maternal instinct used against them. The mental harm that that did turned them into manipulative lying witches. So, when you see feminists pushing abortion, just remember that they're just the modern version of witches.

>accept what they’ve done
I agree. It’s def the hard road over the easy one though. Unfortunately, going openly in front of a lot of people is extremely difficult when it’s more likely that those people will be against you. You’d have to have the voracity of Rockwell and the elephant hurling of Shapiro for a stunt like that. Anons always have the advantage behind a mask. But shills are armed with the unearned confidence brought on by the deluge of shows and movies glorifying the murder of infants. I think the best way to convert without getting revealed and publicly shamed is to spread stats and gore of abortions.
>But it needs to be done legally.
I agree that death via abortion attempt would be an effectively horrifying thought. I think we should bump that with stats on risks of abortion and long lasting physical and psychological effect, as well as anecdotal stories of near suicidal regret. I disagree with:
>it needs to be legally
Because we’ve been living and tolerating this heinous mass murder for decades, sponsored by politicians and the Supreme Court. I’m willing to debate with the timing that they get the rope. But the rope has their name, nonetheless. Legality be damned.
>the best thing to do is change the law and jail the baby killers.
That’s true. It would be the best solution with the least amount of casualties. This would, I think, most easily be brought on by reactivated disgust response towards killing of children, and reactivation of the sanctity of human life, etc.
This would take time, and time is dead infants. Therefore, I think there is a strong case to be made for the initiation of violence. My only concern is that it has to be done in such a way that the message is communicated clearly, it has to be done without getting caught for public shaming, and without the death of pregnant mothers. I think it aligns well with your point about abortion death being shameful. Eventually, these cases would come about.

>cont

The kike media will try to spin abortion deaths to be justification for the necessity of abortion doctors, but there will be a tipping point from the fear of doctors being murdered, and cases of women killing themselves via abortion, that will eventually create a hill women will see as a hill not worth dying on.

I really hope I’m not misrepresenting your points. This is the most interesting discourse I’ve had in a long time.

>how do we cast out devils by the power of the prince of the devils?

I've been in some pro-abortion liberal discussions at my workplace before, and none of them have ever bothered arguing with me when I say it's a shame that they occur in avoidable situations.
They honestly must believe that most abortions are from "my niece got knocked up by her uncle" or rapes.