Coping

>20 year old virgin
It's just sick, man.
I never bothered acquiring social skills, making friends or talking to girls. I thought "it'll just happen eventually". It didn't, and now I'm human garbage.
But what particularly fucks with me is that I'll always be behind everyone else. As much as people outwardly pretend that it's not about age, the fact is I'm already three years past the average. I'm now in the bottom 12% of males, statistics-wise.
It fucking pains me that I'm not even capable of doing something as natural as finding a partner, which is a normal part of every decent person's life since their teens.
I don't want to feel like this anymore.

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Just be yourself. Girls love that.

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"Myself" is a fucking loser so I have doubts about that.
Beeing myself involves talking to a woman though which is something I've pretty much never done in my life.

Bump I guess

I guess if you want to fix it you have to go out there and be prepared to face rejection
Don't judge yourself if you fuck up
Don't forget that sometimes you aren't the one fucking up but she might be just psycho
Don't forget that it's a number games

And the most important rule of them all, DO NOT GET attached to any of those women until she told you she loves you

Good luck if you end up doing it, I know damn well I won't

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>20 year old virgin
>Bottom 12% of men
Who exactly told you this? Hollywood movies? Sex fixes nothing in life , it's skin on skin contact which people can literally pay for. A person who lords over another for an experience you can get with your right hand and some imagination is a person who has nothing else interesting about them.

You're young, focus on something more important like you're career and general future. Love is more important than casual sex my man. Sex is just a byproduct of that.

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What's a sick career? I'm an aimless shadow of a human. Not a virgin btw.

I was exactly in your shoes.
I was starting my last year of uni and was still a virgin. I was losing my mind. After a couple months I just gave up hope. One weekend I was bored on a holiday weekend (stayed on campus) and got tinder.
Only matched with 1 girl but ended up seeing her for 4 months. Lost my virginity.

The only way you can get out of this situation is doing something different. The way you are living your life now is obviously not conducive to meeting women. Change something, time IS slipping.

Not disagreeing, but sex is far more than just physical contact. It's an important step in self affirmation: proof that you are also a worthy and effective person. If you think such validation is weak or pathetic, then you've probably little experience of what life is like without it.

Depends on your personal tastes. There are a lot of high stress but simple jobs that have a high pay grade, jobs where you get to travel a lot, jobs that have low pay but which aren't very demanding... etc.

Sometimes the issue is finding employment desu. I worked as a line cook for 3 years before becoming a paramedic and I've had one hell of a time, on my way to becoming a flight medic with a nice pay bump soon. It's not the kind of job for everyone but it's meaningful work.

Do you enjoy working with your hands and getting Jow Forums? If so, seek out a trade. Electricians literally roll in cash.
Do you enjoy the outdoors, sitting on your ass and working HARD for at least one month out of the year? Agriculture.

>It's an important step in self affirmation: proof that you are also a worthy and effective person
Only if you have major self esteem issues
... like really really bad self esteem issues... you alright user? There are other ways of obtaining self confidence beyond codependency.

Thanks, you've opened my eyes to the glory of being an ems pilot. Problem is that its going to cost nearly $100,000 to become a certified commercial pilot. Sometimes I wonder how I keep chugging along!

>100,000 dollars for heli training
Maybe between $30,000 to $50,000 at most , but honestly in the medical field it's less about money and more about the work, at least it is for me. It's just something I'm passionate about

Yeah, I know. I know all that, but I'm still stuck at the "going out there" part.
Why did you give up?
>Who exactly told you this
Statistics. 12% of 20 year old men are still virgins.
> Sex fixes nothing in life , it's skin on skin contact
Yeah in theory. And I'll probably be inclined to agree with you when/if I ever have sex.
But it's undeniably fucking painful to not have experienced it when pretty much everyone else your age has (and still does regularly). More than the dick in vagina part, it's also the validation, the idea of being actually desired by someone else, etc. You know what I'm talking about I'm sure
>You're young, focus on something more important like you're career
That's all I've been focusing on.
And sure, love might be the end goal, but I want to know what it actually feels like to touch a woman, and I know that buying a hooker won't be the same.

>Only matched with 1 girl but ended up seeing her for 4 months. Lost my virginity.
How did you go from no social skills to being good enough to actually talk to the girl, seduce her, and form a relationship/have sex?
I just feel so removed from other people, like I can tell they think I'm weird when I talk to them.

Stop obsessing over sex. It it makes thots and hoes look bad, it makes you look bad too.
As for everything else, get over yourself. There are people behind your lot in life, the people ahead of you are behind others. Life is like that. You can sit on Jow Forums and anguish about it or do literally anything but anguish about it.

It's not even about blame, nobody cares. You have time to think and advance in life. Even 30 would leave you with plenty of time. Stop thinking life ISN'T the longest fucking thing YOU are going to do.

Or pity yourself. Whatever. I just don't care anymore.

Maybe people who are unattractive and lazy shouldn’t have the opportunity to breed. Anyone who’s an adult Virgin is one by choice, you picked antisocial activities over getting laid. If you wanted a girlfriend bad enough you’d have one.

Lost my v card at 21, the sex was terrible and I had a good laugh about it after.

Now 27. I've had 3 girlfriends and fucked 13 women since.

In hindsight, I kinda wish I'd held out longer to ditch the card with someone I liked/trusted more, and in general have kinda learned the hard way to aim for quality over quantity. It turned out that actually losing the v card was way less significant than learning to ditch the negative self-talk of this weird culture of *EVERYONE IS FUCKING ALL THE TIME, EVERYONE BUT YOU, YOU ARE DEFECTIVE SOMEHOW*, which in fact is not dependent on actually fucking at all.

Oh, and actually look up how to properly use a condom/find one with a proper fit for your equipment. You think it's self-evident, but it's really not.

gl;hf!

My social skills coming into college were.. more than non-existent but I was such a weirdo. I ironed that out over my college career, thanks to me being part of a fraternity though that only helped to a degree.
For her specifically, I remember our first date. It was kinda awkward really, she wasn't talking very much and we just kinda bounced around very surface level topics. I thought it was going terribly until she mentioned something terrible that had happened to her. Our date was at a function my fraternity was throwing so I asked her if she wanted to go somewhere quiet and talk about it. She did.
Once we talked about our respective struggles and the similarities we had, the date became so smooth. She would lean into my arms, and on the ride back she rest her head on my shoulder. We went back to her place that night and though she wouldn't kiss me (or more) we cuddled and I slept over. We fucked 1 week later.
I think ultimately what has brought me genuine success with women is
1. being bold enough to make moves
2. having a real connection

>12% of males have not had sex past 20
Gonna need a sauce for that.
>More than the dick in vagina part, it's also the validation, the idea of being actually desired by someone else, etc.
That's called codependency, you don't need others validation to find self worth. Having sex with that mindset is just going to make your life worse
>You know what I'm talking about I'm sure
Not really , I have people I know love me. In a sexual or friendly way it doesn't matter, love is love, and some people go their whole lives never feeling any of it. I've never had issues finding woman who wanted to bang me. I'm not a normalfag, really I was kind of crazy, but also crazy good looking and playing varsity for my local soccer team. I was in good shape, I had good facial aesthetics, and constantly had woman crushing on me. I never had an issue with attracting women, and I constantly flirted but never acted on anything beyond making out and groping until I eventually met one girl I liked so much that we drifted below the belt. Of course, I was also crazy, so that relationship didn't last and all it did was leave a younger, more impressionable version of myself with a bad first experience of physical intimacy. What you should really ask yourself - are you even ready to love someone?

>Buying a hooker isn't the same
>But I just want to have sex
Then why bother if you're just looking for love anyways? You know there are people who just aren't very sexual.

I am in exactly the same position. Except I did it on purpose.

It's incredibly difficult to resist when every single fibre of the flesh is telling you to do it.

I won't advise you how to lose the V card. It'll happen if you want, if you start meeting women. However, what I will say, is that it can get you lots of attention if you are openly celibate.

Every single girl I have been out with have offered sex on the first date, and I suspect this is because I tell them outright that I am celibate, so they view it as a challenge.

Women don’t like virgins bro, unless she’s a slut passing out pitty sex. All virginity means is you can’t dominate her in bed yet.

I think the insistence I have had off of at least 4 women stands against that.

I have quite literally had to throw one woman out once.

>Virginity means you can't dominate her in bed yet
All you need to do is look and act the part. You can be a complete gymcel and still attract women who want to be dom'd even if you tell them you're a virgin. You've never had a woman caress your arms or pecs before have you?

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1 dimensional thinking
the reason WHY you're a virgin is the important part

Exactly.

I am a conservative catholic. I remember telling a woman I opposed contraception and she immediately presumed I only did bareback lmao.

>Stop obsessing over sex
I can't help it, I wish I could just stop caring about it, believe me.
>Life is like that
I don't mind being behind some and ahead of others, but relationships are such a basic thing that it's like being handicapped.
>learning to ditch the negative self-talk of this weird culture of *EVERYONE IS FUCKING ALL THE TIME
That's what I'd like to get rid of, too.
>which in fact is not dependent on actually fucking at all
Please elaborate.
>1. being bold enough to make moves
How did you establish contact (including physical) and manage to not sperg out too much? I turn into a robot when I talk to a woman so I'd like to know how you got past that anxiety barrier assuming you had it.
>2. having a real connection
Do you think you were particularly lucky that you managed to find that on tinder? I've been avoiding hookup apps.
When it comes to connecting with girls do you just wait and see or aim for a particular "type"?

>Why did you give up?

I'm barely even interested in this game we call life.
I had my first gf at 14 and I broke up with her because she was in love with me and I wasn't, I didnt wanted to take her virginity.
At that point I had wow and porn so I guessed I didn't need women.
I'm 27 now and still a virgin lol.
I have really no interest in this world and I don't bother doing much.
I used to date when I was younger but the women I pulled bored me pretty quickly.
The only thing that ever made me care was love unfortunatly I never managed to get past the first kiss with all the women that I ever loved in my life.
Recently I started to get with girl again, reluctantly, because I was kinda horny and drunk and I was just fine
Then I met a girl who made me feel for the first time in 7 years.
I tought we were doing great but she ghosted me with not much explanation
I tried to get past over it but I fell into a stupid depression and I'm still thinking about her almost 3 month after the fact.
I even messaged her again like a cuck

I was fine alone and I don't really care about women, I only want something absolute but, unfortunatly, it doesn't exist in this world
I don't know why I'd look for reason to be disapointed. I hate this world we live in, I don't have it in me to bring another life in it, under my responsability. Women are useless for me. I'll just fuck hookers when I'm too horny

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>I am a conservative catholic
My nigga

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>sauce
It's pretty widely documented, though the number I quoted might've been a bit off.
>According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the average age Americans lose their virginities (defined here as vaginal sexual intercourse) is 17.1 for both men and women. The CDC also reports that virgins make up 12.3 percent of females and 14.3 percent of males aged 20 to 24. That number drops below 5 percent for both male and female virgins aged 25 to 29 and goes as low as 0.3 percent for virgins aged 40 to 44.
theguardian.com/observer/sex/story/0,12550,818356,00.html

>you don't need others validation to find self worth
Do you frequently receive validation?
As someone who pretty much never does, I can say that it does fuck with you. People need to be told they're doing good, not just convince themselves of it.

The experience you describe is very far removed from what I've personally experienced so I can't relate at all, sorry.
>are you even ready to love someone?
Yeah? I don't think that's related to how I'm feeling though.
>why bother if you're just looking for love
I meant that a hooker is like admitting defeat. You're basically saying "well I'm unlovable so I might as well pay for a girl to blow me even though she doesn't like me at all"
>the reason WHY you're a virgin is the important part
So wait isn't this like a vicious circle?
I'm a virgin because I'm awkward and insecure but that in turn makes me even less attractive which reinforces the insecurity. How do I get out of it? I don't want to lie to prospective partners.

>I only did bareback
But she’s not wrong though. If you were out there having sex, you would be doing it bareback because condoms are the devil

Come on man, you're being intentionally facetious here. No matter how stoic you are, we always view parts of ourselves through other people. If there's some major discrepancy that can't be swept under the rug of simple individuality quirks, then you're going to be critical of yourself regarding it. The more "normal" the thing you're lacking, the more critical you have to be.

Imagine you can't walk despite having normally functioning legs. It's harder for you to get around, sure, but you can mitigate it and function within expected limits. Despite that, you have to wonder why everyone else can walk but you can't. Years and years go by and there's never any relief for this -- your legs are fine, they're strong... but you can't walk. When you ask people look at you confused and just say "You put one foot in front of the other, duh.". You have all the same tools but they're just better at using them, and you don't know why. Wouldn't you be justified in feeling "less" than other people because of this?

She isn't. She just figured outside of marriage

>relationships are basic
They really, truly aren't. Like, this isn't even true in the slightest. And also, I'm pretty sure lots of places have divorce rates over 50%, or maybe all my stats come from tinfoil hatters, but even still.

Relationships are not basic. 'Add more humans' is never basic. It is always tacitly the worst idea with the most potential for additional fuckups of magnified degrees per-person added. Hence why polyamory is retarded, because it's adding the one thing that makes relationships hard at all-- more humans.

Relationships are not basic. You're just choosing to cherrypick because it satisfies this weird self-loathing, self-fulfilling prophecy you've made yourself.

The sad thing is the Ask the opposite gender thread has a fantastic sticky for all of Jow Forums but Jow Forums has 0 mod or tranny janny support, so it doesn't get sweet fuck all because fuck us because we're the bitch board ha ha

Man, fuck this gay site.

I understand the wanting something absolute part but you're 27 so why can't you come to terms with the fact that, being it doesn't exist, you'll have to look for the next best thing which is a "normal" but good relationship?
I mean it seems to me like you don't actually have any problem with women but that the issue is only your outlook on life and your idea of what it should be. You say you don't care but you caught feelings for a girl, so obviously you are able to care.

>Imagine you can't walk despite having normally functioning legs.
Your analogy is proving his point because it implies the problem is all in your head.

>How did you establish contact (including physical) and manage to not sperg out too much?
Alcohol helps. Alot.
>Do you think you were particularly lucky that you managed to find that on tinder?
Finding connections in life in general is rare. I suppose atleast on tinder you know both of you are somewhat physically attracted to one another. That doesn't necessarily mean dating apps are better than real life tho

Sex can sort you right out though, intimate relationships give you a lot of strength, clarity and energy. Casual sex sucks. The risks of intimate sex are the various ways it will shred your heart up and leave you with regret and loss if you break off a relationship. “Friends with benefits” never stay just friends

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let me add that making a connection has more to do with being able to hold a conversation and putting yourself out there emotionally. all needs to be done in a socially calibrated way or else you will be considered a weirdo

>Do you frequently receive validation?
Yes, but it's better to receive validation from family, friends, and community. What's more important to me is that I know I'm a good man above all, that I have faith in myself. Inner strength is very important it you want to be seen as a good man. Many people can keep an illusion of being righteous but be totally false in reality.
>Yeah?
If you're doubting yourself so much then perhaps not? You've told me that you don't often experience validation or support from friends and family, that's not a good sign already. Before you can approach a woman like this, you need to find that self confidence first.
>Prostitution is admitting defeat
Well I don't really like prostitution but many men lost their virginity this way. Like Napoleon.

I didn't say maintaining a relationship was basic, I said that the act of getting together with a girl, hanging out, having sex, whatever, was basic as fuck, which is made obvious by the fact that most people manage to do it.
>You're just choosing to cherrypick
I think you just misinterpreted what I said.
>this weird self-loathing, self-fulfilling prophecy
You're mistaking me for an Jow Forums faggot. I'm improving myself (physically at least) and I don't want to stay like this.
>Alcohol helps
Well fuck, I don't drink. What did you do, just drink a beer before the date or something?
>atleast on tinder you know both of you are somewhat physically attracted to one another
Yeah that's a fair point.
Is it weird to make an account on a dating app if I don't have anything going on in my life right now? I mean I lift, read, etc but since I have no social circle would I be seen as a weirdo if I just put up a few pics of myself alone?
>being able to hold a conversation
I can do that alright I think
>putting yourself out there emotionally
Yeah that's the hard part since I never tell anyone how I feel. Do you have any tips on that?

> it's better to receive validation from family, friends, and community
I don't trust what my family tells me because they're obviously trying to be nice. Objective validation can only come from outside your social circle imo, or from someone whom you really trust enough that you know they won't bullshit you.
> You've told me that you don't often experience validation or support from friends and family
See above for family, and also I have no friends anymore (broke contact with the people I knew after high school).
>you need to find that self confidence
I'm trying to do something I can be proud of (getting in shape) but I'm not going to be seeing results immediately. I'm not sure how to go from a state of low self esteem to actually liking myself and being proud of what I can do.
>many men lost their virginity this way
It's still kinda pathetic. How do you explain it if it comes up in a conversation, especially with a girl? "Yeah I was scared of women and socially inept so I went to a hooker when I was 20", that's really sad

But none of that is basic. Again, you're just choosing to cherrypick. 'Most people' is a very vague number and I'm thinking it's probably not as 'most' as you think.

Regardless, you'll never improve anywhere so long as you care this much about what others are doing, and that's probably why you're single. It's nothing to do with physicality, it's everything to do with the fact that people can look at you, peg you for a needy sadboi, and be completely right without you having opened your mouth.

It's not a good place to be. Girls and guys both will swerve hard and once you start losing potential social contacts, that's it, mate.
I'm not saying it's gonna be easy but it's gonna be necessary. You do NOT want the kind of girl who preys upon guys like you who are just so goddam desperate for a girl to consent to touching them.
It's not fucking basic. It's not. And if you just want to hang out and have sex again, just buy a hooker. They're everywhere and most of them have to be clean or else they don't get business.

As for dating online, go ahead if you want to be really sad. All it does is remind you that portions of the dating market (IE the online portion) are largely based on what you bring to the table physically, which means as little as some guy born with better eyes will win out on you. It's not a great way to be. I don't know why people on Jow Forums recommend Tinder to you guys, it's the very deconstruction of everything you're after.

>No matter how stoic you are, we always view parts of ourselves through other people
Emphasis on
>parts of ourselves
Not all of ourselves. Stoicism has nothing to do with this, I'm talking about having at least a modicum of self confidence which is not dependant on the thoughts of others. There are times when people will hate you for simple mishaps in communication which worsen through time, there are times when common mistakes have major consequences, and their are times when you are betrayed by people you trust. The way you talk about finding self gratification through others is unhealthy, and I've seen your type have terrible ends because of it before.

>Would a cripple be justified for feeling less than someone who can walk
No

>I don't trust what my family tells me because they're obviously trying to be nice.
Then how are you going to trust your gf? You see what I mean, if you can't fix these inherent issues in yourself then you're already dooming your relationship before it starts. You need to have trust in the people you love to tell the truth, 90% of relationships are about communication.
>I have no friends
That's weirder than being a 20 year old virgin btw. Even if you tell a girl that most of your friends are long distance over the internet it's fine you know.
>I'm trying to get in shape to have some pride in myself
Just stick with it, as someone who was an amateur athlete it's more about sticking to a routine and learning to enjoy the excercise than anything else. It takes a lot of faith and patience, but it's always worth it.
>How do you explain it if it comes up in a conversation, especially with a girl? "Yeah I was scared of women and socially inept so I went to a hooker when I was 20", that's really sad
Life is sad sometimes, if she can't relate with that or doesn't care then frankly she isn't worth the time. We all have our insecurities and faults, relating them to each other is how we get closer.

walking is a skill dumbass your not making the point you think you are

>it's probably not as 'most' as you think.
I don't know man, all the 20-something year olds I interact with occasionally seem to have girlfriends.
Things are skewed on Jow Forums because most boards here are filled with losers but a normal guy doesn't think much of sex, has had it since he's 15-17 and to him it's just another cool thing life has to offer. It's a pretty recognizable mindset.
>so long as you care this much about what others are doing
That seems to be the universal secret to everything, and I'm not even being ironic. 'Just stop caring'. Yeah I fucking wish but how? Practically speaking how do I stop caring about something that I perceive as important?
I meditate regularly so please don't suggest something like that.
>It's nothing to do with physicality
I never get looks from girls though. I'm probably not ugly because I got one or two compliments once in middle and high school, but since then no girl has demonstrated any attraction towards me. You sure it's not a little bit of that too?
> the fact that people can look at you, peg you for a needy sadboi, and be completely right without you having opened your mouth.
Fuck how do they do that?
When I'm outside and hanging out in a place where there are people my age, I do my very best to not appear like a weirdo or creep, how do people notice?
>I don't know why people on Jow Forums recommend Tinder to you guys, it's the very deconstruction of everything you're after.
So it's not a good idea to make an account there after all? Seemed like a convenient option. Why would real dating be less physical-based than tinder?

True, but sex is just a part of the intimacy desu. One aspect of the whole

>What did you do, just drink a beer before the date or something?
no but this was a fraternity date event so i was drinking throughout the whole night. probably had about 10 beers by the end of the night lol
>Is it weird to make an account on a dating app if I don't have anything going on in my life right now?
It doesn't really matter. Just go for it if you want to.
>Yeah that's the hard part since I never tell anyone how I feel. Do you have any tips on that?
This is a little hard to explain since you need to do it appropriately. As you guys talk about stuff, try to go deeper into the topics and at some point there may be opportunity to share something personal. This is something you can practice with anyone (family, friends,etc) that will strengthen relationships since it will increase mutual understanding.... it could also repel them if what you share is something they dont like or something but that is part of the price of being open

$30,000, $400,000,000,000. All this money, I've got none of it

>lose virginity at 22
>she couldnt even tell I was a virgin

>how are you going to trust your gf
She chose to be with me. My parents or siblings didn't choose to be a part of my family, hell they didn't even choose to love me since there's a biological component to that. I know they're not completely honest, because they're also deluding themselves into thinking I'm better than I actually am.
>That's weirder than being a 20 year old virgin
Great. Well at least making friends isn't that hard, I'm ok at talking to guys (not great but I can manage). It's just that since I currently am not doing anything (work or college) I don't meet people.
>it's fine you know
So having a large social circle isn't a prereq to being seen as attractive? Or not a dealbreaker at least?
>Just stick with it
Yeah I will. I think I have good discipline, I can make it.
> if she can't relate with that or doesn't care then frankly she isn't worth the time
Man I was exaggerating with that quote. You think it's actually okay to say something like that to a girl you're in a relationship with?

I'm not saying a cripple. They have a tangible reason limiting their options and in our society they receive some degree of special exemption status because of this. I'm saying a person who can't walk because they never learned how and it's now past the point at which anyone would bother to teach them.

There's no such thing as boundless self confidence, even the most assured come from a strong foundation first. If you don't fault the invalid for circumstances outside their control, why do you have such unreasonableness towards people who feel dehumanized by their social inadequacies?

Oh. In any case it's a good idea to drink a little bit before? I really avoid alcohol but maybe occasional exceptions are fine.
>It doesn't really matter
Ok. I just thought I needed to have amazing pics because there are entire guides out there on how to look good on tinder, and I basically just have selfies.
> try to go deeper into the topics and at some point there may be opportunity to share something personal
I think I get it. So you start from something mundane or smalltalk-ish and you use it as a basis to talk about something that's meaningful to you, or to bring up the way you feel about a certain thing?

Well, like I said I don't really care and I don't think I want to go through the hassle.
I had a tinder account for years and never bothered to even swap on it. Let alone talk to the girl
I've twisted standard for me to even get attracted to a girl and I'm not really a catch.
Beside I'm afraid of what willl happens if I ever get attached to one of those girl. I'll get dumped one way or another and I'll suffer even more

I think I'm really attracted to this previous girl because she is actually one of the few that give me an objective.

I don't want to get complacent an find a girl just for comfort. Imagine if she fall in love with me and get stuck with a living black hole. She'll never be happy with me

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Because the invalid don't sit on Jow Forums and bitch as if they don't have a legion of natural resources at their fingertips to take their life with. This is why depression catches such shit, because there's a very thin line between 'actually sick' and 'just wants to skirt responsibility.' An excruciatingly razor-thin line.

Nobody (worth listening to) faults people who genuinely try and put their shoulders into it. EVERYBODY shits on people like OP who just write their own failure despite abundant lessons otherwise, and who then refuse to move forward because it's 'too late' or 'too hard.' Jesus H. Christ.
I've never met an invalid that sat there and bemoaned their situation. Every one of them I've met has always said you just gotta make what you can make and take what you can get.

OP, on the other hand, is a sex-obsessed 20 year old with the brain of a 16 year old complaining about how woeful it is to be him on fucking Jow Forums, which means
>device that runs internet
>electricity to power or charge it
>data or internet plan to visit the internet
And somehow his situation is just so bad. It's just such a fucking tragedy.

This, right here, is why nobody takes Jow Forums seriously. You spare invalids your pity but give it to OP for fucking himself over despite ample evidence that it would end out that way? And now that he still has tons of time and potential to fix it he needs pity?

If you feel 'dehumanized' by your 'social inadequacies,' then fucking fix them. Those aren't invalid legs or a mulched spine or bunged wrists. He doesn't have palsy, he isn't deaf. He's probably even spared autism or asperger's (which ARE cases that deserve extended sympathy and understanding).

I don't understand this mentality of coddling these people. Coddling is what got them here in the first place. But if you and OP wanna perpetuate the misery that bad, hell, who am I to stop you.

>She chose to be with me
Well your family chooses to stay.
>It's a biological component
So I finding a GF. It's s biological drive, yet sometimes family members grow apart and never want to see each other again. The entire point of getting a GF is to create another family ffs user
>So having a large social circle isn't a prereq to being seen as attractive? Or not a dealbreaker at least?
Depends on the kind of woman you want to date. Some are quieter than others, same as men.
>You think it's actually okay to say something like that to a girl you're in a relationship with?
Absolutely. The best thing about being in an intimate and caring relationship is being able to confide in each other your secrets and insecurities. Obviously you don't bring up a laundry list of all your issues on the first date, but yeah if you want a worthwhile relationship you do tell her such things. Of course I'd advise you not to visit a hooker to begin with, but, if you did... you should tell the person you love that you've had moments of weakness.

this lmao, the girl even thought I was so good at sex from fucking "all the other girls"

>In any case it's a good idea to drink a little bit before?
If you don't drink already, don't start drinking just to cool your nerves. Drinking is a crutch and not really a good one as often times you can do really foolish things while under the influence.
>So you start from something mundane or smalltalk-ish and you use it as a basis to talk about something that's meaningful to you, or to bring up the way you feel about a certain thing?
that is the right track. fundamentally just share more. be conscious of not drowning out the other person though

>I'm saying a person who can't walk because they never learned how and it's now past the point at which anyone would bother to teach them.
Which is delusional because physical therapy exists and people take pity on such strange folk anyways as you even mention in your own post.

>There is no such thing as boundless self confidence
You'd be surprised how close people can get. It's a story as old as time itself, remember the story of Icarus, the child who flew too close to the sun? The Tower of Babel? Men like that do exist.
>The most assured were inherently born this way
Strong foundations can be built or found.
>Why are you unreasonable to people with no self confidence
I'm not, you're being unreasonably stubborn in why you refuse to find self confidence.

>your family chooses to stay.
I don't think you can compare the two. I'd still love my siblings even if they were worthless people or even bad people, because they're my blood.
>So I finding a GF
So your point is that I should be able to completely trust a potential girlfriend because if she chose to be with me that means she accepts the consequences? Why do people break up then?
>Depends on the kind of woman you want to date
Social people kinda stress me out, but how true is it that introverts should find extroverts and vice versa? You'd think similar people would attract more
>being able to confide in each other your secrets and insecurities
Yeah ideally. I hope I can find a relationship like that someday. To be honest, most people don't seem to be in that kind of dynamic, there's still a fair amount of emotional distance in couples.

I don’t have a long paragraph to type but I think it doesn’t make sense to dwell on what you could have done years ago. Just focus on getting what you want now, user. Once it’s over then you’ll find something else to worry about.

>don't start drinking just to cool your nerves
Do you have any ideas on how to manage stress without taking anything? I'm really tense when I'm with people I don't know and they can probably notice.
You don't have to be a literal sperg for your social inadequacies to be a real problem. By that I mean that non-meme social anxiety acquired over years of negative conditioning is not very easy to break out of, even though it can probably be done in most cases.
And I'm not sex-obsessed, I'm just obsessed with the idea of having missed out, and being literally dysfunctional enough that I have to ask people on here how to get laid when guys my age just do it. The issue was never about sexual frustration

>You have money therefore life is fine
>you have access to modern technology therefore you ought to be happy
No to both. I've met poor people living in the mountains far happier than people in the upper middle class of a major city.
I've met invalids who have blown their brains out btw. It's nice to have a tough guy persona on the internet but it sounds to me like you're speaking from a lot a naivete on the topic of suffering.

Neither are you, retard. If your legs are perfectly fine but you still don’t walk, you have some sort of mental block preventing you from walking. Same with getting women. You have the skills necessary but refuse to use them because of psychological issues. And I don’t mean on the level of a disorder. Could be something simple like lack of confidence or self esteem

How do you reliably build self confidence when you're starting from zero (or even minus something since insecurity is the opposite of confidence)?

>literally dysfunctional enough that I have to ask people on here how to get laid when guys my age just do it
This is what bothers me the most as well as a 26 yo virgin. It seems second nature to other men, but I've never even gotten close to making a woman interested.

ITT:
COPE

>to dwell on what you could have done years ago
I dwell on it a lot because I wonder at which point does a lack of experience in relationships give you an unfixable disadvantage?
Maybe everything can be salvaged at 20 but there's a bunch of emotional and social development that's done as people start getting into relationships right? So when someone doesn't do that and instead wastes his life shitposting instead of connecting with others, at which point will that gap between him and normal people be too large for him to ever compensate?
Not sure if my wording is clear

>I'd still love my siblings even if they were worthless people or even bad people, because they're my blood
Your mother and father are not blood related and yet you would have the same loyalty to them wouldn't you? Love is a union m8, there is a reason why your heart is a symbol of love. A blood union you might say.
>So your point is that I should be able to completely trust a potential girlfriend
*Long term gf , guess I should've been more specific
>You'd think similar people would attract more
Well, it's true that extroverts tend to attract introverts and vice versa, but that mainly because it takes an extrovert to connect to the introvert to begin with. Lyou would be surprised who you attract if you just gave them the chance.
>To be honest, most people don't seem to be in that kind of dynamic, there's still a fair amount of emotional distance in couples.
Depends where you look, I've met plenty of couples in such a relationship.

You’re only 20 years old, dude. You’re not an old man. It’ll be painful but you can adjust and become well fitted like anyone else. It’s not like worrying about it would solve your issue, it just contributes to the self defeating cycle.

I dont know your life situation, I can't tell you what exactly will help. The go to advice here would be to just do it more but that may or may not help honestly

First of all, most guys are not flawlessly confident. Most of them are shitting their pants just as much as anyone else when talking to a girl they are really attracted to but they just power through it. Also it usually helps that they have tried and failed plenty of times before, or are just naturally lucky with women (great social skills/social life, very handsome etc). That doesn't mean that if you don't already have those things you can't have success, given that MOST guys don't really have those things either.

A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step. You start by confronting it minor insecurities (relative to your issues of course). I used to have an extreme fear of knives after a suicide attempt when I was about 17. It was terrible, a life filled with insanity
and betrayal at the hands of people I had come to care for... I didn't trust people and was fairly anti-social at the time. So I started looking up ways to fix myself, asking doctors, therapists, etc. Eventually I forced myself into a self imposed exposure therapy regiment where i would gradually increase my comfort around knives until I could hold them without being violently reminded of hurting myself, eventually accepting I had moved past that time in my life. What was next? Well it's hard to look people in the face after such an event, so I took a job - as a cook. Knives and faces and constant social contact. Something stressful but which I managed well after the exposure therapy. What next can I challenge myself with? Well, I'm pretty passionate about helping people in need now that I have some trust in myself built up again, so I became an EMT. Eventually I learned to forgive people, and myself, for my mistreatment when I was younger and now live a fulfilling life. Not anxiety free of course, because caring for people just leads to more of that, but it's more like you meant to accept these insecurities a as a constant background and learn to tolerate it. Like how an athlete builds muscle or tougher skin through practice.

It's all a part of maturation. You don't stop building on yourself and eventually you learn to have faith. It's all a personal thing. There are just some things which people can't help you with and which you have to find in your own.

Get a job, and save up. The training isn't $30,000 upfront anyways and there are always costs to entering into higher parts of any field. There are different kinds of payment plans available to you at anytime

Yeah I know. But compared to my peers I already lost what, five years? Maybe more.
It's no use regretting it because I'll never get the years back, that's true. And even if you told me that I'd never be able to completely catch up to others I probably would still try because I'm tired of being in this situation.
Maybe it's all in my head. It's just that people my age seem really far ahead and I wonder if I'll be able to become "normal" one day given that fact
I see. So the term to keep in mind here is exposure therapy?
Basically if I'm scared of people I should get a job where I'm around lots of them, that kind of stuff?
From your experience is therapy really useful?

>So the term to keep in mind here is exposure therapy?
Yes, if you have issues with anxiety it's honestly a lot better than medication will ever get you in life.
>Get a job that exposes you to people
Yep , you should absolutely do that. Then try to make friends with coworkers, customers, and then try to decide what you really want in life, what you're truly passionate about.
>Does therapy work
Some of it , talking about your feelings doesn't really work as it does in movies but exposure therapy at least helps a lot. You aren't going to get it clinically unless your anxiety is so bad that you can't look at someone in the face and become nearly a mute in the presence of another person, because those people do exist and they're usually the ones being focused on, but you can kind of do it yourself if you build a schedule around it and tough it out. It might take years, but you're going to be alive for awhile anyways.

Well I say it might take years, but other times it night just be a few months. You never know how things will go. You can just work in a fast food joint ffs, even that is preferable to doing nothing and remaining afraid of people.

Thats everyone though... Everyone has that one self esteem issue that isn't even that important. In the case of OP its sex, in your case its walking (which I know is a metaphor). You're saying everyone should be the same so they don't feel insecure, but by being insecure, everyone already is the same. Also are you a thot? you seem like a thot.

Focus on yourself. You don’t need to compete with anyone, you need to learn how to enjoy your life. That’s what you want, right? Take some time to determine what YOU really want out of life. Not what everyone else is doing, not what your mom expects you to do, not what you think you’re supposed to be doing. Think about what you really want.

I'm not defending OP, I'm defending me. I'm not socially retarded, I get along with people fine, I'm not deformed, I have a good job, I have active hobbies, I'm highly educated. I'm also just a few years shy of being the title of a shitty movie about male sexual failures.

Know why it bothers me? I don't know why I am unable to do what is second nature to everyone else. My behavior isn't outside the realm of what normal people expect, my appearance isn't so atypical that it would be offputting, and people come to me for advice all the time so I obviously command some degree of respect. So why? I can't for the life of me understand what I do so differently that my entire life has been missing this apparently normal aspect. I look at everyone else and see nothing different, yet I receive very different results. It's like love and sex and romance are one big lie that doesn't really exist and I'm the only person not in on the joke.

Yeah I'll find a job.
About therapy, I was thinking about using it as a crutch, because my mind is so chaotic that it's really hard to figure out what I want, what I feel, why I do what I do. I thought a psych might be able to help with that, I don't know.
And no, my anxiety isn't so bad that I remain mute in front of people. It's just that I become very tense, very boring, and probably come off as either rude or creepy because of that.
I have trouble with body language like looking people in the eyes and all, too.
Yes, it is preferable. I really need to let go of the "what if I can't manage to catch up" idea because it's fucking with my head.
>You don’t need to compete with anyone
Even in something as inherently competitive as dating/relationships?
And yeah I want to enjoy my life. I've been asking myself what I truly want out of it though, and I can't find the answer.

>can't find the answer
You probably need some guidance, someone you can bounce ideas off of over and over until something sticks. I suggest therapy.
>competitive as dating
I mean more like you don't have to look at what your peers have done and then feel down on yourself about it. If anything you should use it as motivation for yourself.

Listen, I'm only two years older than you. I have had all of the same defeatist ideas surge through my brain throughout my entire life. Your situation has been very similar to mine thus far. It feels like an insurmountable task to change your mindset, I know, but deliberating over it will just leave you with more wasted time. Everything won't change at once but if you begin taking small steps towards what you want you can make a lot of progress over time. You don't have to dive in.

>Yeah I'll find a job.
Good, first steps are important. You don't want to be 50 years old regretting that you never did anything to improve yourself. Just don't let people being assholes stop you, because for every asshole there are truly kind people.

Hey man, I was in a similar situation until recently, when i actively started pursuing girls through tinder etc and sure enough i fairly quickly met a dope chick and lost my virginity at 22 years of rage. Have you tried actively going after girls? Waiting for one to fall into your lap doesnt work out, at least not for me

not OP but I don't feel very funny, attractive, or particularly interesting enough to speak to women, let alone set up a Tinder profile.

>you don't have to look at what your peers have done and then feel down on yourself about it
I guess I don't have to because everyone has their own path and all that. But isn't it considered weird when your experience was very different from other people's?
>I'm only two years older than you.
Are you better now? How long did it take for you to fix yourself?
Small steps is what I'm doing. Exercising, spending less time on this shithole, actually doing things instead of putting them off, trying to find a job. Seems like a decent start for now.
Another thing though, how come some people put in time and effort to improve and appear to have succeeded, but still can't make it? Like this user's personal experience.

No I haven't actively pursued girls because I'm really bad at talking to them.
I have an issue similar to in that stress makes me become a boring person so I need to get rid of that somehow. Also, tinder might not be the best choice for me apparently since I'm not particularly attractive (probably like 5/10)

You dudes think youll become interesting enough to talk to women if you never do it? Half the dudes on this site are quick whitted and funny but youve never practiced applying that in an actual social context

>are you better now?
I haven't gotten to where I want to be but I've been slowly making progress. I've done some things in the past two years that I thought I couldn't handle four years ago. I feel better now than I have in a long while (though I still feel pretty bad, admittedly) and it gives me hope for the future. Don't be lazy like I've been. If you stay consistent you'll see faster progress than I have. There may be setbacks but that's just part of the process.

Nobody laughs at my jokes, even on Jow Forums.

Find a serious Escort who is easy to talk to and empty your worries and thoughts on her. After I dared going into this I was constantly worried and thinking about getting a girl but now I get my rocks off and I can go on focusing on myself and disregard females. Give it a try. Or you could go to a doctor and complain but then you're one stop away from being out on SSI's and your gonna get fucked up. If your frustration is lack of female touch, get an Escort or prostitute and get it out of your system. You shouldn't waste your time and energy on talking yourself down or worry about girls. Don't live life for a girl. Live it for yourself. A girl in your life is a bonus, not a goal. Life is much more than sex and girls. But our biology as men makes us crave that feminine touch.

Don't lose hope. My best friend is a disgusting slob, but he finally got laid in his mid 20's. I mean, dude grew up poor, super fat, barely bathed, etc. Yeah, he was downright insufferable to be around before he lost his virginity, but now he's pretty pleasant.

That gives me some hope. Thanks.

I'm in the same boat, and will turn 21 soon.
>I guess if you want to fix it you have to go out there and be prepared to face rejection
I am rejected constantly.

My dude if you go through all the trouble of finding a girl youll look back at what youve Said in this thread as some pussy retard shit, i know from experience. Its worth all the work and pain

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>Sick career

It isn't about career in general but living a happy, fullfilling life. Do what thou wilt. Don't care about social hierarchy.

>20
>TWENTY
God shut up.
What does this mean for everyone else on this board cunt? What are you saying about them through this thread?

Seriously, twenty is nothing you little shit.

Just pay for it. Breaking virginity is no big deal. Making love is.

Almost 24 and still a virgin. I hope that makes you feel better.

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