UBI Thread

So to recap:
- Repeal minimum wage
- Close down most social services
- Provide UBI check to adult Natural Born Citizens only, who can prove their status (besides, the IRS knows anyway)

Provide only about 450 bucks per month. Regardless of employment status, seeking employment, etc.

Because of minimum wage being gone it eases the pressure on restaurants and other low end jobs (starter jobs) who can lower their wages.
> Virtually eliminates any incentive for immigrants, legal or illegal to come to the United States unless they already have valuable skills to contribute to the country. They have no social nets then because food stamps and welfare dont even exist anymore, and they will Never qualify for the UBI check.
> They will get paid barely more than they would in their host countries, while housing and other expenses will still be just about the same as they are now.
> Any still living here would have to get out for their own good or certainly become homeless, who would only have the social benefits of soup kitchens and food pantries to rely on.

Attached: nervous turned on waitress.gif (298x301, 1.81M)

you will never be able to pry it out of the economy though
and congress will not pass it because of these reasons
> it cant be taxed, companies will just rearrange their assets so they'll avoid having to pay, businesses will also go out of business and the amount that was once available will be gone
so close, yet so far away
it cannot be done

BUT... the money IS there in the existing social programs and other government bloat. Gut that shit, and give it to the people who count.

Yanglet math:
>375,000,000 x $1,000 x 12 = $4.5 trillion in taxes per year.
Yeah no thanks faggots.

Tax the ENTIRE FUCKING 1% and you still will not have your stupid fucking 1k per month you giant FAGGOT. This UBI is more than then entire current budget. KYS

Y
GANG
N
G

LET IT ALL BURN BUT GIVE ME MY $1000

Attached: YANG2020.jpg (720x847, 63K)

Don't worry we will tax you and your 70k/year bracket. Don't pretend you're not rich.

MOTHERFUCKERS REMOVED MY ABILITY TO TRIFORCE FUCK YOU

Problems with UBI
>Goes to everyone, even billionaires
>Does not replace other welfare systems
>Raises inflation
>Discourages work for unskilled laborers (and incentivizes illegal immigration if restricted to citizens/legal residents only)
>Is a form of rent seeking
People who push for UBI want one thing, for their to never be UBI. People who actually want better, easier, and cheaper welfare advocate for NIC, negative income tax which
>Goes to workers earning the least, progressively less the more you earn
>Replaces most welfare (does not replace SS Disability) at a lower cost
>Pays for itself because it encourages work
>Increases employment by reducing cost of unskilled laborers

>Because of minimum wage being gone it eases the pressure on restaurants and other low end jobs (starter jobs) who can lower their wages.
But with UBI, you don't have an incentive to get a shit job working for $5/hr or less. You'd get more doing jobs on Fiverr, selling crap on etsy, camwhoring, selling drugs, filling out surveys online, and many other currently subminimum wage alternajobs.

>Pass the law and cut the checks whatever happens after that literally doesn't matter

You are literally devalueing your own currency you fucking retard. If you get 1000$ for sitting on your ass all day, then how much are you supposed to take for a low-wage Mac Donadlo work? 5000$ ? God damn meritards are brainlets.

sage

exactly
there's enough money thats already being taxed out through the social programs
> whats more, the blacks who devour alot of it would STILL get their UBI check for 500 bucks a month because most of those folks are Natural Born Citizens...
> this practically Guarantees that black folks in the cities will be covered, though some of them wont get nearly as much
But I mean they're already getting the food stamps and welfare so that drain is there. For them it would just be a redistribution of wealth from the black folks who are getting the most, to the ones on the street who have been denied.

- Billionaire getting a 500$ check per month is tragic but there arent many of those people. There are millions of millionaires, maybe they can do a right and just thing to save face and look nice, by donating it to churches and food pantries.
- Consumes other welfare systems, destroys them
- Encourages work for unskilled laborers because 500$ per month is shit and wont pay for your smokes, booze, or phone bill. May not even pay for your rent, but it will keep you Alive! It damn well gives you an incentive.
- For SSI and SSD your payments reduced by 500 if you get UBI. Amount you get does not change. Burden is sorta eased on that.
- getting rid of the MINIMUM WAGE absolutely DOES NOT incentivize immigration of any kind. Unless you're einstein and can already get a cooshy job.

Nothing wrong with (most of) these jobs and in alot of cases they're creative and provide novelties in an age of artificial. People pursuing what they love to do for a living.
In fact its a travesty that people cant really do those things because of how our society is set up. It totally shits on these creative disciplines.
> selling drugs
people go to jail for that user

Make it $500 and it can actually work. Because it make sitting on your ass all day kinda hard.

Attached: both.jpg (500x436, 14K)

decreasing the amount received as you earn more creates a disincentive to work.

That's the fucking point of working now you cunt.
500$ is the basic unemployment fund

What? One of the benefits of UBI is that it is not income-based. Existing welfare programs create a disincentive to work because you will lose the benefits, or the benefits will be phased out.

󠛡 󠛡 󠛡 Y
󠛡GANG
󠛡 󠛡 󠛡 N
󠛡 󠛡 󠛡 G

The world is going to shit but at least it's going to shit with $1000 in my pocket

Attached: YANG2020.png (556x258, 177K)

Why not more?

Attached: ubi.jpg (1191x463, 118K)

>decreasing the amount received as you earn more creates a disincentive to work.
It's minimized if you schedule it correctly, with no hard limits, and base it also on hours worked (so you can't work 5 hours a week and collect the max benefit). Most current welfare schemes give beneficiaries the maximum amount so long as they are above the income ceiling, after which they receive zero. UBI just gives everyone the same amount regardless of all other factors.

Fucking pic fucked up my triforce again

󠛡 󠛡 󠛡 Y
󠛡GANG
󠛡 󠛡 󠛡 N
󠛡 󠛡 󠛡 G

This better work

Upi thread? :DD

youtube.com/watch?v=MjdFIotKsUE

No, depedning on how many years you work, you get more benefits in retirement. If you close 40 years of work, you will get into retirement that is not a disincentive. That is why UBI shit will never get through.

The more you work > The better retirement. simple

UBI is like using a bandaid to treat cancer.

I also forgot to mention that if let's say that UBI shit passes with 1000$ monthly for doing jack shit, sitting on your ass all day. If one day you make 1 cent with your hobby, or someone deposits you literally 1 cent, you officially have an income, and therefore UBI shit don't work on you. You lose the benefits and now you have to work. That means, even inheriting.

Literally this. But the band aid is made of silver lining. It does nothing and it costs a lot.

No need for the rhubarb frien
This is a thread for shitting on wang and his 1 Grand balloon promises
- Natural Born Citizenry does not actually change much. There's a precident for it in the constitution too. And those are the people who the country is For.

Well the thing is there's nothing stopping a company from paying somebody 15 or 20 bucks an hour if they've moved on from an entry position.
In fact it would feel pretty damn good to go from 500$ UBI plus making 5/hour part time... to making the UBI + 12/hour full time as a management position.
Every time you got a raise, and a promotion to another position, it would feel like a shot of drugs user.
We would get some Deflation off of that I think.
> imagine because of UBI you can easily go to college because you're not worried about paying most of the household bills
> can get a degree or cert
> can get a skilled job for 20-30 per hour
> the UBI check is now just dinner money pretty much, but you still get it, its a benefit of being the heart and soul of this country

unemployment benefits run out though, its fucking laughable, and they're dependent on how much you made at the former job too
and its conditional on how you lost your job and if your former employer
These sorts of things need guarantees, and no time limit.
> Its necessary for the security of our society.
> you want homeless people off the street dont you?
Funding needs to be reestablished to the Asylums too by the way, but thats another topic that can be handled after this.

Thats why existing welfare programs need to DIE.
And this is a perfect place for the money to go.
Redistribution of public aid wealth to the people who deserve it, as an everpresent social net, and advantage.

Attached: have we started the fire.gif (500x200, 1.5M)

Does anyone actually think that congress would pass UBI and remove all welfare programs? Fat chance.

Its still reducing your incentive to work. Phase out or hard cut off, either way. Lets say I’m deciding between working 30 hours or 40 hours at a wage of 10$/hr. As my income raises above 300$/week (beginning of phase out in this example) I lose 30c of NIC for each $ above 300. If I value my time at 8$/hr, I will only work 30 hours (at 7$/hour) instead of the full 40. In this way, phasing out benefits based on income sub-optimally reduces employment.

Are you drunk? ESL? Were operating at different levels here - discussion is not going to be possible.

UBI doesnt go away when you make income.

Upi thread :DD

youtube.com/watch?v=6QGFeBPboO0

I don’t know whether I support UBI, but im arguing in favour of it for the purposes of this thread. I think you misinterpreted some of my posts.

Dude it's not as if you have a problem finding a job. This is the shittiest campaign i have witnessed by a 1st world country.
When the fuck does it go away? After you established 50k a year? God you are stupid.

>UBI introduced
>everyone gets $1000
>Landlord Schlomo says: "your rent just went up by $1000 goyim, pay up or I'll have you evicted"
>you are now just as poor as you were previously
Excellent idea, why didn't we think of this earlier?

It doesn’t. Its UNIVERSAL.

You know how stupid that sounds right?

I’m describing what universal basic income is to you, and how it works.

>the world is going to shit
Only if you’re a faggot, illegal, communist or dumbocunt.
God Emperor Trump brings the good time feels.

There is no such thing as "universal" income. Each country has different wages for each expertise.

This creates loopholes.
I mean there's ladies with cats living in mansions who get food stamps if that tells you anything.
Just make it apply universally to the demographic ive mentioned.
If anything 500 bucks per month that you dont need is 500 bucks you could be Investing, or saving up towards a down payment on something.
- When is the last time anyone considered SAVING any money compared to just raising their lifestyle to meet head to head with their means?
> literally, investing in natural born citizens, the bread and butter of the united states
As the OP Im pointing out the flaws in this thread with the current ways people are considering UBI, including wangface.
And if people really want a UBI that works, the kind of price its going to carry with it. Since the price you have to pay for it affects whether it will work or not.
> the price you pay can also serve other goals too
> like capping how many babies a baby mamma can have
> and making life hard for foreigners who have nothing to contribute but fruit picking
It also cant be "completely" universal.
If you're a naturalized citizen then you came here from somewhere else presumably with skills to make this country better.
Our country has to take care of its own, the people who have nowhere else to go, who were born and raised here.
So even if we would like to extend it to everyone who's a citizen, the simple facts speak for themselves that we cannot.
> it can only go to natural born citizens
> and obviously, it can only go to adults, aged 18 or over

this
local party school university in my town
somebody with alot of money is buying up the decadent strip and making it a more respectable place to go to, some of the bars are even shutting down, which relocates the drunk liberal college kids to the other sectors of town where that becomes riotous.

Attached: 1488 local walmart.jpg (3264x1836, 1.35M)

Universal, in this context, means that every citizen would receive 1000$/month - regardless of income.

UBI would be nice if all other welfare was gone. But look up his campaign and you will only see more spending.

Don't settle for 1,000. The future is bright, Lambright.

Attached: 1551938072306.jpg (1191x463, 102K)

>in this example
Again, it's a matter of scheduling it to minimize the disincentive to work at lower wages and maximize the incentive to work full time. I would shoot myself before reducing benefits by 30% per dollar of gross wages at any level, pretending I was king of America or whatever.

Just throwing numbers around for you,
At $5/hr wages you get $1000 per month if you work 172 hours per month and the $1000 is reduced by 1/172 ($5.81) for each hour less worked. Working full time, your gross income is $22,400 ($10,400 wages, $12,000 NICkle).

Now you get a promotion to $7.50/hr. Your NICkle is reduced to $900 per month and by 1/172 ($5.23) for each hour less than full time. Working full time, your gross wages are $26,400 ($15,600 wages + $10,800 NICkle).

And so on. As long as you work along this kind of formula, people make more the more they earn even with reductions in the NICkle. The disincentive is transferred to working overtime. Frankly, I am opposed to overtime work.

Yup thats what this thread is about
Wang is full of shit
And hopefully this thread and any repeats about it plus the lessons learned will fuck up his campaign a little bit.

ALL of this should be common knowledge to /PTG/
Not just the fact its horseshit
But the reasons why
And the way that real UBI could be instituted... the reason it wouldn't be the hot shit people think, and the kind of sacrifices that would be required.
> though im in favor of my brand of it because I can see how it would make things easier on small business and still provide an incentive to work

Attached: advanced saltmining the webm.webm (640x360, 2.37M)

You’re still misunderstanding my post. I was replaying to someone advocating for a negative income tax. I was explaining how that creates a disincentive to work. Not sure what you are talking about with “loopholes.”

On your second point, although you may have political or moral reasons for restricting UBI to natural born citizens, there is no economic argument for doing so. Furthermore, because Title VII of the Civil Rights Act prohibits discrimination based on National Origin, giving UBI only to natural born citizens would be inconsisent with existing law that is extremely unlikely to be changed.

>>no economic argument for restricting UBI to natural born citizens
>universal UBI implemented in the US for any adult who lives there
>suddenly millions of foreigners want to come over to claim their free gibs
>this increases the tax burden of those paying for UBI
>this influx of low skill people depresses wages even further
>the resulting pressure on housing forces rents even higher
>also forces house prices up, so even less people can afford to buy a house
>all the while those who already own all the property get even richer
>no economic argument
Go on, make more idiotic statements.

I appreciate your example that fully fleshes out the system. By “creates a disincentive” I just mean it reduces the existing incentive (income). I agree that it is possible to design a system that that minimizes that decrease in incentive (new phrasing for clarity), as we attempt, but fail, to do with out federal tax code. However, the decreased incentive will still exist to some degree, and that is why I would prefer UBI.

This is all just if I was forced to choose between the two.

Also, I know that income will still rise as you make more, but it will rise less than the corresponding increase in wages. Tying NIC to hours worked also reduces the ability of the system to provide for those unable to work full-time.

That’s want the immigration system is for. Restrict it to citizens.

>implying immigration law will be respected with a Democrat in the White House

nobody at an entry level job works 172 hours per month
the most anyone will give you is 30 hours per week... barely amounting to 120 hours
> if you get more than 30 hours you're considered full time, which does BAD THINGS to the business owner, so they will not give you 40

I would accept based on the 500$ model that there could be a scaledown but only at some healthy amount where its not going to matter to you anymore.
Because that 500/month if you dont need it can be reinvested in something else like your retirement fund.

> no economic argument
Yes there is
Prevent incentive to foreigners to come here to take advantage of it. Only their children would get it, and only after those kids hit the age of 18. And it would be hard to survive here that long.
> Title VII
Do we discriminate based on National Origin who is eligible for the Presidency?
Also its not discrimination against any individual country so there is no target named for that (eg, we wont give it to people from iran, syria, saudi arabia, or whatever).
Its not discriminating, its only giving to a specific group of people.
Its one of those logic equations things, rather than cutting out a larger circle from the venn diagram, you're only establishing a smaller circle outside it.

boy you just check that shit right now
Trump isnt a democrat and if he leaves office there's civil war, end of story.
I figured this was common knowledge on this board.

Attached: mutates my almonds.png (645x773, 107K)

>I would prefer UBI.
But UBI maximizes the disincentive. If you don't pay rent and utilities (NEET life!), is basically all disposable income to you. Why work a job, even part time? Work sucks. And if you're a NEET, you can probably only get the suckiest minimum wage jobs.
>Tying NIC to hours worked also reduces the ability of the system to provide for those unable to work full-time.
That's what SS Disability is for. Most people don't realize that includes programs for people who are able to work part time. You don't have to be totally unable to work to get SSD.
>nobody at an entry level job works 172 hours per month
>the most anyone will give you is 30 hours per week
That's a product of a very bad system that penalizes employers for giving full time work by requiring benefits (small businesses are usually exempt). That should go away regardless of NIC or UBI. It should die in a fire.
>Because that 500/month if you dont need it can be reinvested in something else like your retirement fund.
That's what Social Security is for.

> mfw my numbers are speaking in binary now
> the 1s come out to 49 in binary
> which is 7x7

yep and thats the problem with naming it that
but basically it does represent a social benefit, to people who are from this country as origin, and if its kept to a manageable level it will help to ensure their legacy

Attached: dubsfall.jpg (855x625, 395K)

>In economics there is a pretty low tier concept called the Simple Spending Multiplier
Essentially you evaluate your marginal propensity to consume / save and adjust it for an initial investment
>Let us assume that our MPC (marginal propensity to consume) in the US is at .8- meaning we consume 80% that we make and save 20%.
By the math of 1% (1-.8) we get our simple spending multiplier of 5
>This means for every intial investment of $1, the total revenue or GDP growth from said dollar is an extra $5

NOW FOR YANG MATH
Let's assume the total population of our Chink-Messiah is roughly 251 million adults getting the BAG of $1k every month, every year.
>We take 251,000,000 x 1,000, x 12 and we get $ 3.012 trillion per year
By an MPC of .8 and an SSM of 5, the expected returns for the Yang Investment is $15.075 Trillion per year

BUT HOL' THE FUCK UP
> we don't actually save that much money in America, 'specially the niggers and jannies who will also get this money
So lets assume we have an MPC of .9, meaning we're only saving 10% of our gibbe dats
>Our SSM equation becomes 1% (1-.9) which equals 10

This means the Yang Investment will create an additional $30.12 Trillion per year in GDP growth based on our initial investment

...how does saving $1/year translate into $5/year of GDP growth? Surely that $5 GDP growth is spread over a number of years, right?

The calculation was per year, and explained in the post.

Here's an explanation of a spending multiplier:

>The spending multiplier is closely related to the multiplier effect. Assume that households consume 80% of any increase in their income and that the government increases its expenditure by $20 billion. Any government expenditure is actually income of households in the form of wages, interest, rent and profit. Since MPC is 0.8, households will consume $16 billion of the increased income (= 0.8 × $20billion). The $16 billion increase in consumption will trigger second round of increase in incomes (for people associated with production of the consumed products and services) which in turn will trigger second round of consumption amounting to $12.8 billion (= 0.8 × 0.8 × $20 billion), and so on. The resulting effect is that the GDP increases by a multiple of initial increase in government expenditures. This multiple is the spending multiplier. A decrease in government expenditures decreases GDP by a multiple in the same fashion.

Social Security is a very poor inefficient way to plan for your retirement.
In government or economics class at high school we were all taught that you can invest your money at an early age and end up with about 1.5 Million by the time you retire.
(I forget the amount, it was like 1000 per year and it was assuming at 14% interest)

Also consider this is a boon to Boomers.
Because they already get Social Security or Pensions.
They'll get another +500.

problem is its not a sure thing
and based on what others have said it could be a rouse with yang going before congress, demanding it, being stonewalled, and then shrugging and washing his hands of it
- improbable
- easy to fuck up if the details arent all taken care of
- considering how politics works, its guaranteed the details wont all be taken care of
- wang might get parts of it implemented, but not the rest, using the dumpsterfire known as obamacare as an example
> speaking of which the only universal healthcare that could work in the US is a single payer system that basically ganks all the insurance companies in the back - and lobbying will make sure that never goes anywhere

meanwhile consider that my model takes money thats already in the system pretty much
- provides a severe disincentive against being non-productive in society
- provides a disincentive to foreigners who want to fleece the country...
- and by the same merits that you've mentioned will produce GDP growth even if its not quite as much as yang's
> 500 bucks in your hand that you dont need is 500 bucks that's probably not going to be spent responsibly in this day and age - which means its spending money and that drives up GDP

There would also be an emphasis on getting the Mental Health centers going again, so that people who cant take care of themselves and have ended up homeless (will be in an Asylum, instead of on the street shitting up the sidewalk, getting a 500$ check, and panhandling)

Attached: montana.gif (320x180, 1.61M)

It doesn’t, if you value your time at 8$/hr you will still work at 10$/hr job with UBI to make more money. See my previous example.

Im telling you that its the law. The constitution provides for the rules around the presidency, and overrides statutes.

Our immigration system already does that. If you are a citizen you have to be treated equally.

I did see, but the thing is the average person values their time at like $30/hr or more. That's based on what they'd be willing to pay someone to do their chores (non-disposable free time) provided they had the money to do it. In terms of what they're willing to be paid, we have a take what you can get economy. We're not Denmark. Unions that aren't totally ineffectual are effective at being partisan PACs.
Fuck boomers. SS is inefficient, but people really like its reliability, so it's not going away in a democratic system. The best you could do is reform it to be better at investing its money. 14% return is ponzi-tier, btw.
I guess I'm just not understanding? The part where saving half as much doubles the GDP growth effect really threw me. I see now you mean the growth is from the spending, not the saving, but still, doesn't that assume the market is a closed system? In the real world, a lot of that money is going to go overseas. Whenever Americans get more disposable income, the trade deficit grows because we import like crazy. How much of that growth is going to go to North Korean slave run T-shirt factories?

This
Someone earlier said that getting 500 bucks let alone 1000 would just empower someone to sit on their ass and make etsy gifts or camwhore or other "useless" forms of productivity.

But those forms of productivity ARE useful. Sitting on your ass you could end up coming up with something pretty damn cool and decide you wanna go into business doing that.
- You wouldn't have had the time to work on it otherwise.
- You might even have to refine it abit more before you could go into business with it. Time that you wont have to spend a bunch of money and overhead on because you take longer to finalize it before bothering to go to the bank.

Bespoke stuff might not sound professional but it doesnt have to be, it can be the founding of inventions and new books. Throughout history the creativity of man has produced alot of useful stuff as a result of those same creative people sitting on their ass (or falling on their ass, or sitting on their ass in the shower at 3am and getting a good idea).

something MUST be done about that then
its a fucking black hole

Attached: if only you knew how bad grave.jpg (5064x9001, 1.22M)

> personally I value mine at 100/hr, so I know what you're talking about, mainly because I have a bunch of skills that are powerful and not applicable at most jobs, so they go unlisted

Politics is like any neogtiation. Coming in with larger demands gives you room to compromise on implementation and details.

There are many Republicans who would like to simultaneously reduce the number of government employees as well as the slow, inefficient welfare systems of the past. Negative income tax is a likely proposal more along the lines of libertarian style UBI, and we could see the Freedom Dividend go that way with bipartisan support.

But if people *actually* want the $1000/month, they're going to have to be persistent and realize they can't just win a singular victory in the presidency, it has to be followed up by electing better candidates at state and local levels as well as to Congress. Part of the reason anti-establishment candidates come into contention is because their voters don't want to participate in the smaller elections. The government can only get things done when there is consensus by design. Unfortunately in its current form that means neoliberalism or neoconservatism because of voter apathy and lack of education on issues.

op image is: UTI?

>other "useless" forms of productivity.
>But those forms of productivity ARE useful. Sitting on your ass you could end up coming up with something pretty damn cool and decide you wanna go into business doing that.

This is really macroscopic here, but "useless" and "creative" things are bad in the long term. The thing is that we've allowed ourselves to become psychologically disconnected and then economically disconnected from the fundamental economic reality.

Civilization requires fuel, materials, and maintenance. Those are now a fraction of our economy. But the more labor and money spent on those industries, the higher the quality of life becomes. "Useless" things fall in three basic categories, cultural products, entertainment, and luxuries. People get very unhappy without those, so I am by no means suggesting a Soviet or DPRK style economy that forces everyone to work on essentials and live in a nightmare. But until the world can afford the American dream, and it can only afford it by increasing productivity in essential goods and services, increasing productivity in "useless" goods and services is just creating a futuristic city on the hill surrounded by teeming masses of the underclass.

The developing world has not developed this disconnect. Since the implementation of globalism around 1990, the developed world has seen GDP growth slow, real wage growth stop, and inequality skyrocket as video games and other entertainment has grown, grown, grown. Meanwhile, the developing world has seen extreme poverty drop by something like 90%, the mass adoption of modern conveniences ("useful" goods), and drastic real wage growth. "Useless" goods and services have increased, but only modestly. Obviously, there is a lot more going on there, especially the purchase of used electronics from America and Europe (that are outdated and therefore close to worthless) for prices that people who earn a few dollars a day can afford and then use productively.

More like making you a nigger

Attached: SHIET.png (507x786, 375K)

meh, you are right but the fact is social structure and culture is NOT going to change just because of some pressurings at the sides like that
fact is there are things that make Life Worth Living
and that requires content
Not remaking Spiderman 4 times. Spiderman and the rest of marvel comics came from somewhere, from the mind of a person, and a growing idea at a time which was frivilous but still inspired people.
> the lack of this, of things that are genuinely creative, is a big problem in our society now.

The other thing is the growing state of Technology which, depending on how fast it can develop out from underneath the foot of the tech giants and lawyers, is reaching a point where some technologies are threatening to either surmount these issues (pic related) or become invented and invalidate them completely. Its not the sorta stuff you see on the news or on blogs, but people are working on it nonetheless.

Somehow people expect this, and find these fundamental economic realities to be more rubberized and less imposing. People, in current year, do not think or feel that we are still in The Old Days.
> developing world
Tensions are building fast enough, along with an oncoming civil war, that the people in the 1st world here are really growing in support to use our Technology to slaughter the fuckers.
Negating 4th generational warfare completely by blasting the human shields and dragging the infiltrators out in the street.
Thats what im seeing anyways, and the Cons Vs. Libs issue is just driving up the mercury on it rather than disempowering and acclimating.
Guess thats a good thing in some regards... when the boiler explodes it will keep exploding.
> spells doom for a 3rd world who builds their strength on numbers and only accepts handmedowns and rough copies of Tech
> even without nuclear, at this time, we can massacre, thermal and satellite reveals heat signatures, if it walks on two legs in a no-mans-land it will be hunted

Attached: food synthesizer.jpg (400x300, 20K)

Creative pursuits, while probably less valuable in a few way than STEM, can generate their own demand. People want enjoyable or innovative or interesting art, architecture, films, music, etc, and that is one realm robots will not be able to fully automate or compete with humans in, at least until we develop sentient AI capable of using agency to create things.

The point of UBI is to avoid socialist stagnation among other problems of complete centralization, so you can explicitly place higher value dynamically on certain areas of the economy and academia, and have societies rearrange themselves relatively automatically via economic activity/investment to carry out production and research.

The problem is that, for a specific individual, corporation, or group of corporations, it may be more profitable for themselves but detrimental to innovation and citizens to secure a monopoly/oligopoly and effectively sit on a market which they have complete control over both economically (and potentially politically).
The solution to this used to be just trust busting, because the successor companies would inherently need to have money seep into the economy via paid workers which would generate a whole host of positive effects. Now however, companies can cut increasingly large numbers of workers out of the equation via automation (US manufacturing output is higher than pre-2008 crash levels for example but manufacturing employment is at an all time low) and serve less as a productive redistribution mechanism and more like accumulations of material and financial wealth.

>the lack of this, of things that are genuinely creative, is a big problem in our society now.
That's largely a product of a corporate oligarchy controlling media. I'm a trust buster.

Technological advance has limits. Frankly, we're already pretty close to them. Star trek style replicators still require fuel and maintenance (and more energy than we've produced in the last 100,000 years per magic sundae). You're just substituting one supply chain for another.

We can go full cultural/service economy when robots can replace human workers for practically every job needed to build a civilization. That should be possible, but no one has built a robot that can and no one has a practical idea of how to build one. Robots are still just productivity multipliers, like a very sophisticated screwdriver.
You're kind of all over the place here.

Maybe I rambled, my point is something like:
>Businesses more often than not exist solely to profit off some venture
>Historically this necessitated the transfer of wealth to workers due to an exchange of money for labor
>Automation reduces the scale and scope of the exchange of labor almost completely, and thus the former population of workers will have a smaller influx of cash and eventually lose most of their economic and by current societal organization power in general

>UBI at least attempts to address this by guaranteeing a nonzero base income for citizens, which, if implemented by a VAT, would force at least some of the gains in productivity, which have not been showing up in real wages, to go to the genreal population via another route.

So you obviously don't know how much the 1% owns. Let me guess, you think the 1% only has a billion dollars.

If you want to consider automation a productivity multiplying tool, this is technically correct but it just takes a few engineers to fold currently human-required jobs and tasks into a machine system. Not everyone can become an scientist, doctor, or engineer unfortunately.

For example, stores could be retrofitted with automatically stockable shelves that only require 1-2 humans to check on them. Same with fast food, what once employed an entire kitchen could be turned into a 1-2 person team supervising a machine with a mechanic on standby. The jobs lost from automation are never 1:1 made up in other sectors because otherwise they would not be economical and we wouldn't have an employment problem with automation in the first place. The point is that more jobs are lost than created by automation, and we have an obsolete population which is going to be subject to the whims of those with the means of production and capital.

nothing insightful or any real arguments made, just shitty memes and copy-paste responses.

this is litteraly phase two out of phase one after all the trump demoralization threads. Yang showed up on toe rogans show and discord trannies and shills grabbed onto him with shitty memes and forced it so hard R9K neets fell for the bait and some low iq demoralized retards. Noticed any of the decoy /bait threads like shitbulls, canadian grocery defense force, anti cops, demoralizing trump threads such as "I use to be a supporter but x" or "I really feel trump x" ? notice any of the nigger / tranny porn threads? no? its because they are focusing on the 30+ yang threads every thirty to forty five minutes and shitting up anything that has the word "trump" in it.

I'm not a trump supporter, but i aint supporting a dumb gook with free gibsmedat and no guns. fuck him.

pic related discord trannies.

Attached: 1552421299623.png (3640x2140, 1.45M)

UBI is mathematical necessity to avoid the wholesale collapse of civilization and the restoration of the American Republic. Promote the general welfare means just that...

Eventually, that's going to be a good argument for UBI. But there is no clear timeline on when that is going to happen. Robots are still just productivity multipliers. The bigger issue right now is that the financial sector and government strongly prefer inflation over deflation in all but the newest industries. So if you design a robot that lets you build 10 times as many screwdrivers with the same number of workers, you're encouraged to fire 90% of your workers instead of building 10 times as many screwdrivers, which would drive down prices. That's a huge simplification, obviously, but there really is a very powerful industrial-commercial lobby that works to make sure there are approved prices in country A (US/Europe), B (China/Turkey/Brazil), and C (various shitholes) going from high to low so that inflation is closely controlled and profits remain high.

Not everyone can be a scientist, but there's currently one scientist per every million people right now. We're at least decades away from having a labor excess in those kinds of jobs and, as I said before, once we reach that point we can safely go full retard on a cultural/entertainment/luxury economy. The problem is jumping the gun.

> technological advance has limits
A common idea thats starting to be held by society these days but the only reason that it is believed is because of the (artificial, imposed) technological slowdown of the last 15 years.

Also because we are at the cusp of a technological leap. There are a combination of techs that will have to be mastered, combined, and then mastered in-combination to break through to the next level. I would use a game metaphor but fact is technological growth between leaps is not exactly smooth, there comes a point where a great deal of work has to be done to go OTT
> reminds me of a civilization game where the tech advances go from costing 20,000 lightbulbs to 64,000 lightbulbs each
> we're currently working with glorified 1945 technology, the transistor and laser are pretty much the only new things since then

No, it doesn't have its limits.
we just havent done enough research.
Thats what these climate people dont fcking understand, within 30 years of what they consider to be doom and gloom we'll already have the ability to reverse the climate problems. Not that we would care much by then because we will be living almost independent of that ebb/flow.
Bubble cities is a meme and zeerust, but pretty much.

> replicators
Thats not quite what I was suggesting.
3d printing at a molecular level using existing base resources.
If you've got dirt, you've got everything you need.
Wouldnt start out that way, would need semi-refined sources of stuff... but for example over a decade ago they were already using remanufactured Epson bubble jet printers to "print" cells into functional organs.
Just imagine how it could be used for steak dinner.
And making replacement parts for the machines themselves.

This makes way for the USA to become pic related.
And in that fashion we conquer the world.
By rendering all the other cultures of the planet irrelevant. If you want to live in space, you have to zig zag our way. All terrorists become "troublemakers"

Attached: united states colonial marines.gif (171x171, 9K)

It's failed in every country it got trialed in.

>because of the (artificial, imposed) technological slowdown of the last 15 years.
lolwut? And you really think you can turn dirt into uranium (or nickel or sulphur or even just hydrogen) with a 3D printer?

- wood contains carbon, oxygen, hydrogen
so does sugar, and starch, if you get my drift
- nitrogen comes from the air
- oxygen and hydrogen come from water
if you can mass-process gold and silver bearing dirt/stone then you have a near perfect sorting mechanism for it and the efficiency of those mining efforts will skyrocket

Remember any efficiency in society reflects across the whole.
If you're able to survive on 20 bucks a month worth of raw materials (starch packs, protein packs harvested from bugs, nutrition packs with all the minerals you need)... which your food synthesizer churns out actual decent tasting meals with or which you can cook into something tasty...
> thats 180-250 bucks a month you just saved which you can spend on other things or invest
Nevermind that machines like these could 3d print other machines at that point.

The technological slowdown doesnt have anything to do with this issue though, the main culpret of it tends to have to do with this over-bearing focus on the internet, smartphones, and failed big budget contracts and diversions (F-35, Tesla).
Either the money keeps on flowing into black projects that the public doesnt get to see and continues providing Black Arrows for the USA to kill everyone else with...
Or its being wasted on things that arent really making a difference and are otherwise creating unnecessary technologies that arent helping society advance.

No... the computer shit and 5G and android crap is not helping technological advance. Thats done on workstations using programs like solidworks and by STEM people working on shit that has nothing to do with these more public ventures.

Attached: deploy construction yard.gif (145x115, 40K)

>literally describing alchemy
>larping this hard

I find the snark amusing, but I can see it working.
And it can be effective long before it gets to the point of needing to work at the molecular level.

How about forging metals using micro-particles, relying on van-der-waals forces... dont even need to melt it. Run an electric current through it probably and the close proximity will cause the metal to crystallize and link.

Also as soon as it becomes possible to print Graphene that changes a fuckton lot of shit
> 10,000,000 psi tensile strength... 20-50 times stronger than the hardest steels, and those are brittle while graphene is flexible
> a natural superconductor at room temperature
And we could end up 3d printing the shit in prefab strips.
Just giving examples of the possibilities.
5G will not do this, smartphones will not lead to this, wild goose chases like this eat up money and divert useful engineers from working on shit that matters.

>Newton couldn't figure it out
>Rando schizo user faggot thinks he's figured it out
>Doesn't realize you need a Philosopher's Stone
>larping this hard

Attached: 1234.png (509x619, 8K)

thankfully 3d printers will do it
but not the kind that we use right now for building polymer materials
> injection style similar to bubble matrix but with microscopic precision

That will solve the "Fundamental Economic Reality"
It also solves the unemployment problem because it makes it possible to initiate very, very large building projects since you have a massive force multiplier on the manufacturing end of it. And then you will need just as much more labor when it comes to transporting the finished pieces
> ARCOLOGIES
> Ocean surface settlements
> Cruiser Size spaceships once the power problems have been worked out

Attached: arcology sim city.jpg (486x640, 112K)

What it all really comes down to.
What will certainly kill part of the economy first.
The big huge macguffin, writing on the wall, and elephant in the room.
> getting a fusion generator working at normal, rather than thermonuclear temperatures
Thats what it keeps coming back to. Because that solves the power problems even if we dont have better batteries to hold it yet.

Attached: spacecraft-sci-fi-reactor-3d-model-low-poly-fbx.jpg (1596x935, 91K)

...are you talking about cold fusion now?

Yes. If their base wanted it they would pass it. They don't have to immediately remove welfare, just give the option of UBI or welfare. As UBI grows overtime, people will drop off welfare and it goes away on its own.

Realistically, the politicians who would vote for UBI would only vote for it in addition to welfare, not as a replacement. They see these programs as a legal form of vote buying.

Today I will remind them

>Milton Friedman was for UBI
>Thomas Paine was for UBI
>Alaska literally has had UBI for 37 years

Yang-b-i is the future.
Get that bag, and secure it.
youtu.be/weIR1tRXgXo