> Is western culture a patriarchy?

I will state arguments of a friend of mine and you help me dominate the next argument!

So, I'll start:

> We live in a patriarchy. One indicator for that is that men occupy more CEO positions and are not willing to pass them on to women but rather only to men.

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Thats not a patriarchy thats just an innate sexual bias. A patriarchy is when ceo positions are inherited patrilinearly

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well in a patriarchy, sexual bias for high ranking positions will be male, so we need a gender quote.

You're not very good at arguing, you're not even rebutting.

Gender quotas are damaging for women. If women are put in power positions not because of their merits but because of their gender, they'll be less valid in the eyes of society. Women should hold power positions because of their skills and their talents, not because of their gender.

What's wrong with a patriarchy though?

I see your point but quotas do not put women in positions because of their gender. They enable them to take positions they want to accomodate because the male oppression won't let them. Women have the same skills and talents as men and quotas would be a starting point for them to take power positions so that these jobs are not male dominated in the future.

gender pay gap for instance. the difference in income between women and men is (after considering all factors such as hours worked) still caused by patriarchal social structures. For instance, women are still no encourged as children to develop themselves such as young boys. Boys are told "you can become anything in life" while girls are told "find a good man and get pregnant".

also what you‘re saying implies that women aren‘t as talentes and skilled as men and therefore do not occupy power positions which is sexual discrimination and wrong.

Yeah we do.

Culture is a bitch. When we've lived in patriarchal societies for the majority of human existence, a couple decades of equal rights and woman's suffrage isn't gonna magically fix stuff. It's a start, but that doesn't change the fact that we live in a heavily patriarchal culture, and that we ourselves have been socialized since birth to internalize patriarchal gender norms. Additionally, as patriarchy is based upon the material differences between men and women, such as exploitation of reproductive labor, and historically a division of labor that has put men in a position of economic power over women, patriarchy CAN NOT be fixed without a fundamental shift in our culture and economic system.

Yes, this is all true. We do live in a patriarchy for the reasons you mention. Men will fight like hell to keep the power as well, as you see being done here and with memes.

So fucking what.
if you don't have a patriarchy, you have a matriarchy, someone is always the majority that's how it works. Men being in charge isn't a bad thing. Feminism just boils down to
>I want to be in charge but I have nothing to bring to the table so let's just destroy the notion of merit that men hold.

how is our culture male dominated?

you don‘t think that women have plenty to „bring to the table“ but are simply being oppressed by men?

See? These guys are too weak! They can't handle a woman.

They are, but if women are in charge they'd just do the same thing. You're just trading for what men find of merit for what women find of merit. There's no point.

do you really think there‘s the need for a gender to be in charge? don‘t you think it would be wiser if the most competent person is in charge and this cannot be the case in a patriarchy? the patriarchy needs to be eliminated to have an equal society.

why is this on Jow Forums

We either live in a patriarchy or matriarchy either way it doesn't matter. The problem is an equitable system is not any more "just" it is more like a huge pain in the ass to make sure everything is distributed to be "equal." What is the value of equality? Why does it really matter? Being a CEO fucking sucks why would anyone want to do that I am a man and I never dreamed of being a CEO I would much rather be an engineer. Even that is considered biased towards men but is it really? I work with female engineers they are accepted fine. People just assume there is discrimination as a consequence of unequal distribution but it doesn't actually logically follow from an unequal distribution that there is discrimination or unfair treatment at work.

men also rank higher than women at chess,
could the solution to why there are so few female CEO's just be that there are gender differences in brain anatomy, this is something that has already been known for a long time that male and female brains have different sizes and proportions.

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>while girls are told "find a good man and get pregnant".
Weird they were actually told the "you can become anything in life" in my city.

>Boys are told "you can become anything in life" while girls are told "find a good man and get pregnant".
Not in the last 40 years

I have challenge for you. Why don't you find a children's TV show aimed at young girls/women with the message, "Find a boyfriend and get pregnant" from the last two decades? I am willing to bet I can not only find another episode from the SAME CARTOON that argues girls can be anything BUT ALSO a second unrelated cartoon that argues girls can be anything from the last twenty years. And I bet I can do this for as many shows as you can find.

Would you like to take my bet?

Go post this on Jow Forums faggot this has nothing to do with advice and everything to do with robots

doesn‘t really matter when there are fathers out there who encourage their daughters not to pursue a career, does it?

>literally all of media doesn't matter

I suppose you'd respond to higher female enrollment in western universities by saying their dads just like dropping fat stacks to make them more eligible brides, since guys really look for a girl with a sociology degree?

Let's try this the other way, is there ANY observable fact that would change your mind? Or is your opinion only based on things we have no way to gather data on, like a secret conspiracy of dads grooming their daughters to be submissive?

alright... all media? what about commercials for kids toys. the boy is always the explorer, the inventor and the scientist while girls get cute puppets, makeup sets and kitchen toys. that‘s measured evidence isn‘t it?

Men get autism more so of course a worthless kid's game like chess is better for men

or maybe men do better at chess because it requires spatial intelligence which women don't have. there are large gender differences in brain anatomy, it isn't disputable

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Maybe you've grown out of touch with modern commercials

>Nerf guns

>LEGO/engineering toys?

What about YouTube? Sponsoring content creators is the #1 way companies reach young children these days. Children three fucking years old are learning about toys off YouTube. Where do they see commercials for them?
>KidTastic Microscopebeing demoed by a 5 year old girl

Now I will 100% grant you that makeup sets are exclusively marketed to girls, but even cooking toys get some boy representation too...

(Sorry for the slow reply, it was actually harder than I thought to find commercials. Apparently you can't just google "microscope commercial" -- you end up with industrial class microscopes, not advertisements.)


I hope someone discriminates against you by putting a bullet through your head.

Maybe you could even take some inspiration from your idol and do it yourself...

because mods are fags

Based & tolerancepilled

Just WHERE do you live where everything is 50 years stuck in the past?

What’s wrong with a matriarchy?


And so concludes the gender discussion. We want equality, but not really.

But why not, based trips?

Because it involves a lot of case-by-case situations and careful analysis
The problem is that there's too much shit. You can barely get a classroom of 21 people to agree on something unanimously, it's bound to get harder from there and my city alone runs 1.3~ million people. To say they don't always agree is putting it lightly, naturally.

There's just too damn many people to form an agreement. Given infinite time and space, perhaps humankind could agree unanimously, but as far as our reality is concerned it simply won't happen. We either live with the pipe dream that it will/might and delude ourselves, or we admit that it's just not ever gonna happen. By the time people get to a point where they're that agreeable, they'll be on their deathbeds and the next runners-up will be fucking up something brand new.

It's a thing.

Any advice at feminism?

>> Is western culture a patriarchy?

I mean... It's most definitely not a matriarchy, and while it's shifting there, it's still definitely not an egalitarian society (in fact, as far as I know, the only world power that was founded on egalitarian ideas, is actually oppressive as fuck towards women: China), so if you're going to equivocate and *force* a choice between the three, Patriarchy is what shit is closest too...

But using that as a basis to claim outright patriarchy is spurious as fuck.

You guys are getting too caught up in wanting to be butt-hurt about labels. That only hurts whatever discussions or progress that can be gained from talking about the subject. Never try to hold a discussion or debate while angry or upset, that gets you nowhere and completely destroys any credibility your argument may have in the eyes of any party involved.

>men also rank higher than women at chess
>could the solution to why there are so few female CEO's just be that there are gender differences in brain anatomy,

Actually, there's a pretty famous case with a psychologist who wanted to experiment with nature vs nurture, and so from the age of three, he raised his three daughters to become chess prodigies. He purposefully forced exposure on them, designed a highly competitive environment, and raised them specifically to be competitive chess professionals.

All three girls became chess prodigies, one of them becoming the first modern chess grand master and her younger sister later becoming the (then) youngest female chess grandmaster (which held for almost 20 years). Two of the three became professional players.

The interesting thing is how they were raised with a completely different mentality and environment and societal setting to how girls normally are.

Other studies have shown, men are directly or indirectly raised to be more directly competitive than men are, where as women tend to be raised to be socially mindful and conscientious.

Now THAT is open minded

What advice is there to give? Equality is nice, accept that people are different and fuck off.



There are biological factors in game that i feel will never change, this existed since forever, most animals have the same in play.

I would question why is it now that the subject appears so much? My answer is capitalism.
Since the motor is greed, women are empowered by everything created with capitalism, and they want what they cant. All work positions they want with pseudoequality are always regarding power, never slavewage jobs. Yet they ignore the benifits they have over men.

To end this man and women must become truly equal by law. Without forced quotas but with merit. And merit will be the way we finally demonstrate inequalities in gender.

That simply won’t happen. We all know that one girl who is hot and socially adaptable. She will ride through interviews, get weird exotic jobs, somehow manage to go abroad for 3 years with no income or job.

The general thing I’ve seen so far is that women get jobs easy, but to progress in the career is slow. Men is opposite, get jobs slow but will rise fast.

But they don't have the same skills and talents. When was the last time you saw a woman beat a man in boxing, or strength, or aggression? The same applies to personality traits. How often do women become nurses or teachers because they want to care for others? How often do men do that? How often do men seek positions of power (doctor, politician, CEO, soldier, police officer) compared to women? How often do men undertake high risk propositions (miner, crime, construction) because of the rewards compared to women?

We can see it even in the genetics, where men have on average 3x as many mutations.

Have you looked up a single fact in your entire life? Dora the explorer, and I'm not even American.

Which is yet another sign that we aren't the same. Autism is a mental condition, and boys are far more likely to go that way. Hence, there is a brain difference even before hormones start differentiating during puberty.

Please provide a source for this. I am dubious as to its authenticity.