How did the Germans lose again?

That's right bro, those fucking Romanians were pretty much useless.

You got it all wrong. The final nail in the coffin was the Japs sperging out and attacking murrica.

In the winter 1941 the invasion kind of stopped but if Russia didn't get gorillions of American trucks, tanks, planes, guns, radios etc... and a 2nd front Germany would have been in a position to 100% at least keep all the gains they made.

THAT was the deciding factor. Billions of peasants aren't a problem. Billions of peasants armed with the best fucking tech in the world and getting everything they fucking need on a silver platter? Different story.

fpbp

ussr

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>captured
Yes, gunning them down is capturing them.

Wasn't only lack of manpower, it was mostly lack of oil, that was the reasoning behind invading Russia as they would run out of oil by the end of 1941

inb4 triggered slavs

The same way Rhodesia and South Africa lost, under the weight of the entire (((world)))

If you throw enough meat into a meat grinder eventually it will break

They ran out of fuel

I don't know if Barbarossa could ever have been successful, but at the very least without Lend-Lease the Soviet counteroffensive would have been even more costly and drawn out.

They fought the 3 other biggest armies in the world.

No fuel, shit steel, and famine.

Wasn't Russia going to get them anyways? America had full intention to stop Germany despite being reluctant to join the war themselves. Pearl Harbor probably only made the inevitable happen earlier.

Y'know, I think it was a bit of both. The Germans decidedly assblasted the Russians, but they would have decidedly won the war even with Ameircan intervention had Hitler never instigated a two-front war. The Japs really fucked him, too, by instigating war with America, and Germany could have possibly won had America not gotten involved, as well. It was sort of a perfect storm against them.

Nah, if hitler would have captured the english troops at dunkirk and also allied with the ukrane the war would have been over before japan even got that far.

They literally ran out of gas in the Eastern Front. Swear to God, tanks were abandoned, resources couldn't be shipped

As to why they didn't conquer Russia with just the meagre oil reserve-- Greek campaign stalled them, winter set in without winter supplies, Stalin decided to sacrifice millions of people, and later in life Speer said allegedly German treatment of certain Slavs made willing allies into enemies (I personally imagine the Jews/Commies probably constantly painted evidence showing the Nazis in a horrible light even if the initial actions were just "morally gray"

Also, Britain totally surprised them by declaring war. This was terrible because the Luftwaffe and navy were barely built up and Britain is obviously an island, and American supplies to Soviets/English could not be stopped

Plus, some people think Goerrings part-Jewish right-hand man Milch sabotaged the Luftwaffe

Hitler not actually expecting war against England probably did a lot of it

they ran out of gas

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They captured millions of russian POWs what are you talking about. Thats also on top of the millions they also killed

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They waged war on the Russian and American BVLLS

Hitler blamed Mussolini's failed invasion of Greece, which he then had to divert troops to and thus delay Operation Barbarossa by about a month.

>hey Jow Forums condense this question about the most complex conflict of our era into a shitpost of one paragraph or less
the answer is you're a bitch and should read a book about it instead of shitposting here

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I was just joking around, I know they captured tons of Russians, it's just that the common idea of the Eastern front is Germans gunning down wave after wave of poorly-equipped Russian peasants.

Why did Romanians have such nutty helmets?

>no sloped armor
>oversized piece of shit that can't cross bridges
Really makes me think, were they really the master race ?

Reminds me of the quote "WWII was won with British Intelligence, American Steel, and Russian Blood"

> hey you, you are not allowed to discuss this subject because I decided that these topics are best locked away in books

This too.

Just imagine if the Japanese had started a second front with the Soviets and avoided war with the US. Coupled with Operation Barbarossa starting on time and the odds would definitely have been in the Nazis' favour.

They wasted too much resources developing slow, unreliable, and unnecessary super weapon tanks.

Lets see,

> Losing Norwegian navy to defection
> Magnetic mine not exploding in mudflat allowing it to be captured and countered by british
> Not taking gilbraltar
> Dunkirk / battle of britian
> Not taking Caucasus
> Eastern front blunders

Soviet superiority.

Oil. Churchill refused peace after Dunkirk and the German war machine was going to run out of gas. Hitler had to invade the USSR for them sweet oils.

the best way to improve your knowledge is to read actual books, not digest memes from Jow Forums and regurgitate them

Dude forget it. Russia lost just as much people as they could realistically afford to continue survival as a nation. They escaped extinction by a fucking hair width.

The destruction of Nazi Germany doesn't mean Russia continues survival. China, Europe and USA also exist. So even IF Russia wins, it's existence as a sovereign state is fucking finished. Without Barbarossa they would have like 250 million people. With an even bloodier and longer Barbarossa they would have today not 140 but only like 90 million people. Fucking impossible to govern that territory with so few people.

It honestly was to a certain extent lol. Fucking russians are stubborn

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>t. historically illiterate
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCollum_memo

Logistics defeated the wehrmacht. There was a very small window in the opening months of barbarossa where they HAD to destroy the red army in the field as it wasn't possible to keep pushing and pushing fighting deeper into the soviet union. Failure to do this by fall of '41 meant an ever lengthening supply line which was incapable of supporting a war of movement so far from home base, let alone a war of attrition which could never have been won by the germans.

The whole war seems poorly planned by the Axis, I think. Although to be fair, we only know that things won't go as planned because of hindsight and perspective from all sides. They didn't have all those knowledge.

Jews ?

Building 1 Tiger instead of 3 mediums didnt help

I still find their tactics (prior to Zhukov really taking over) fucking horrifying. I had a lecture question in university a few years ago about whether it would have been better if Stalin had just surrendered during the battle of Stalingrad instead of telling his people to fight until the last man, I'm pretty sure there would have been less death and destruction.

Too many backstabbers in the inside. More specifically the Junkers.

The goal of discussion need not be education.

...

They say Franco didn't help Hitler with Gibraltar because he thought for all of the talk of "fighting on the shores" the British with their huge navy just would have taken the military and government to their dominion Canada which was pretty much beyond German range

Basically Franco was like "I'm not risking that for you"

You have to wonder if that's part of the reason they didn't remove Spanish Fascism til the 70s (that and the Cold War)

Thanks for proving my point retard.
If the Japs didn't get baited, the American public would have never accepted to participate in these (in their eyes) stupid wars. See it from their perspective: They had no ideas that nuclear arms would be developed and the UN and global wars would stop existing.

I'm still shocked at the amount of kikery the US used to get into that war. It is truly a nation run by Satan personally.

>90% of the wikipedia article has only one source, which is the book that disseminated the memo in the first place
epic

They didn't had the crew anyway, the problem was that the luftwaffe was focused on dive-bombing.

Wikipedia has become such a joke, they don't even write articles with a pseudo-neutral point of view anymore.

It was fucking horrifying. The russian command really didnt seem to give a fuck about the loss of life. It seems like they gambled on overwelming numbers to drag out the war long enough for Germany to get exhausted.

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>that and the Cold War
This is the reason Spanish fascism kept going.

Jews

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Still asshurt over the goyim's brilliant solo?

Masonic 33 numbers prove that Satan rules America. It is officially confirmed by Kek.

if in June 1940 the stupid Germans hadn't stopped at Paris, and started raiding every wine cellar in France, Hitler could have quietly told his friend Franco "my tanks are crossing the Pyrenees, they can be greeted as friends and bypass Madrid on their way to Gibraltar or you can offer resistance and they will be going through Madrid and take you with them, only slight delay" and cut the Brits off from the Mediterranean he could have forced a peace with Britain before thinking about attacking Russia

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Zhukov was pretty incompetent compared to his peers like Konev and Rokossovsky, but he was better with politics. Zhukov's greatest addition to Soviet doctrine was to fire the artillery BEFORE the infantry assault. His top down command structure that's still in place is shit though.

Hitler was autistic. Any more questions?

Another penssular war doesn't sound to tempting. Plus invading another fascist country would not look good to Germany's allies

No, FDR was already attacking German submarines and claiming they fired first on "neutral" American ships, so he still would have used that as an excuse.

Strategic bombing of industry and communications.

True but did they have the resources to build a strategic bomber fleet?

>forced a peace with Britain
Impossible. Churchill was the biggest Jew. He'd sacrifice England before he went against his masters.

An interesting idea I haven't heard before. Maybe one reason it didn't happen that way was the fear of an imminent soviet invasion and the need to refit/redeploy forces in the east for the real war.

Russian winter.

Yes, but Zhukov was far better at commanding an army than Stalin was, and that's really all that matters in this context because at the very least he was acting with an ounce of professionalism rather than sending thousands of poorly-armed people to die.

This pretty much. Germany really needed some more time to prepare, or at least get their industry moving. Notably if they had fully equipped Panzer divisions it most likely would have helped out considerably during Barbarossa. The number of panzer divisions more than doubled between the fall of France and Barbarossa, but the actual inventory of tanks didn't increase appreciably.

What most people tend to forget about the allies strategic bombing campaign was how many men and production it drew away from the eastern front. By '43 there were over 1.5 Million Axis participating just in air defense operations (planes, ground crew, AA, etc) and more than 40% of large caliber munition production was going towards air defense.

no, it was entirely their initiative on the eastern front against their Russian "allies" they just had just dissected Poland with
>interesting idea
I realized it years ago while drunk

True, but that's more a case of 'better him than nothing' essentially. Personally it just bugs me that Zhukov gets all the credit for everything when there were so many vastly superior and skilled generals in the Soviet Union.

>His top down command structure that's still in place is shit though.
Explain.

and declared war on US.

Isnt all this conjecture considering the US had the ultimate trump card in the A bomb ?

By being genocidal retarded anti-Slavic barbarians and having an insane meth addict as their leader

>check out all these tanks and badass planes!!!
>lol trucks? we will just use horse drawn carriages

Japan bit off more than it could chew

Hitler was a degenerate fuckhead schizo tweaker, that's how. Deal with it.

The Sherman was almost as well armored as the Tiger due to its sloped armor.

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There were 33000 Shermans produced and something like 1300 Tigers.

I'm sure WWII neutrality helped

>Plus invading another fascist country would not look good to Germany's allies
you missed the point entirely, leaf, Franco would be put in a checkmate position to either join the winning team as a glorious ally or be hung, I doubt if he would choose the latter, too bad Hitler didn't force the decision on him while he had the chance

>Another penssular war doesn't sound to tempting
JFC do you leafs even listen to yourselves?

that's a maybe

retarded leadership

Prob also contributed

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Chronic shortages of coal, steel, manpower, wheat, oil, basically everything needed to wage total war

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Hitler was incompetent, high quantity of decent tanks > extremely low quantity overdesigned tanks, Italy.

I was just rapping my knuckles on a museum M4 a couple of days ago and the plaque said "50,000"

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>hey let's invade a country that's 70% mountain who we have an intimate and close relationship with down to the fact they use our weapons, doctrine, and tactics. This will in no way backfire or create an indefensible location with which to protect my western flank from threats abroad while certainly not making me in any way unpopular among either the citizenry or military of which many know friends who outright died fighting to help Franco's regime. If nothing else there's no possible way my complete lack of logistics and god fucking awful tanks that only won in France by bypassing 70% of the French and British army could be ineffective at fighting in mountains and chokepoints.

Have you considered that alcohol actually makes you more retarded, not less?

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Fuel

To very briefly describe it:

>Make NCOs into just 'conscripts we can sort of trust for a year before they leave'
>Remove power from NCOs
>LTs are essentially NCOs now
>Because they're a combination of raw officers and given NCO type duties, all powers get shifted up one notch
>Can't trust junior officers with initiative now, have to make grand battleplans and doctrine that's very simple to follow
>Don't want to entrust anyone below the rank of Mayor to have initiative, only those at that rank or above gets the privilege of being able to deviate from original plan in face of operational changes
>You now have what amounts to junior officers having to go all the way up the chain of command to the equivalent of Major or Colonel just to ask for fire support

Thankfully things have changed since then, particularly since the 2000s

They only got that from the captured German scientists from ALSOS (the official story is they spent the whole time in a British barn which is absurd)

Why else did they only get the bombs once Germany surrendered?

I personally have wondered a lot whether the Nazis used the atomic bomb to the US as a bargaining chip to spare West Germany in return for the US having the ability to beat Japan and threaten the USSR

you are a retard, I'm telling you how Hitler, immediately after France surrendered and the Brits fled from Dunkirk, could have cut off the Mediterranean in the summer of 1940 with probably a quarter of the forces he needed to subdue France, and with minimal casualties (and that's just on the 1% chance Franco had decided to commit suicide and not order the border crossing thrown open to his "great allies") and you want to say stupid shit like "a country that is 70% mountainous", go away gamer

50k combined when you count Canada, the UK etc. 33k is US production up to the end of the war.