How come Northern Italians are blonde and have blue eyes?

There is a theory is once upon a time a shitload of europeans were more nordic looking. Lot of things has happened in european history obviously. So it´s not so much that nordics were just everywhere. But that europeans were more similar, and due to nordic isolating themselves in nordic countries, with very little genetic interaction between others. That we stayed more that way, and others didn´t as much.

I visited Florence this week and Italians either looked like Matteo Salvini (white-ish) or blonde and blue-eyed

those are the remains of the original population, the rest is where Indo Europeans mixed with the I1 population, so those would be I1 and N populations

>source:
>this one fake image
k keep me posted. Caesar had rust/wine brown eyes.

What i mean is it´s not that nordics just went and was everywhere. But that europeans were more looking like that in general. And nordics retained it more than some other european groups. Due to isolating themselves. Which the other groups perhaps not did so as much. So much interaction with many other groups of people.

There was an ancient migration from the midle east into southern coutnries. J and E haplogroups, pretty much jews.

All the German slaves.

the jews

WE

Okay well you seem more expert of that than me, but my main point isn´t that like nordics just went and had sex with everybody. But that nordics are some of what was left due to isolation of what lot of europeans look like long back. So it´s like other way around is my perspective on it. Than those that suggest that nordics went to other places and became large groups of there etc. Because we didn´t have so much interaction there. Our countries weren´t taken over either by vast empires. We were kind of stayed somewhat isolated up in scandi countries. So there was less genetic fluctuation perhaps.

Italy during Roman rule was a mix of Greek, Italian and Celtic people. Genetically, that's still how it is. During the centuries, despite conquest by foreign populations, we almost haven't changed.

Well, midle easterns certainly didn't go north, so that's pretty much what happened

/thread.

Gauls. Germany resides north of the italian border.

is there any racial hierarchy in Italy between Italians?

>Well, midle easterns certainly didn't go north, so that's pretty much what happened
Yeah that was pretty much how i think aswell. And ofcourse no i don´t believe as some try to claim that nordics just was dominating everybody. No i don´t think so. I think we look similar to how the other europeans were that went doing all kinds of stuff with empires, and got perhaps a bit more intermingled with others through that process. Where we didn´t so we stayed much the same as they might have also been. And ofcourse also changed in our own ways aswell due to climate and things over long period. And i have great respect for all european peoples. But ofcourse when you have great empires like mediterraneans etc. You in that process ofcourse end up finding some sexy ladies of other ethnic groups.

yes
youtu.be/cbbMIg-Aw8E?t=100

A very long long long long long time ago all whites were blue eyed blonds thats because all whites lived somewhere in siberia begore invading europe and genociding the abbos that lived there. Back then they domesticated mamoths in soniberiz and there was a lot of green.

>racial hierarchy
>the main difference is hair and eye color

Kek, obviously not, we are not retarded

During ancient times "Nordics" aka Indo-European were dominant as fuck, and pretty much conquered the whole Europe fo rthemselves. Including parts of Asia, India and even Africa (Chad) during the earlyer years, with the time everything they had fell, mostly due to Mongols in Asia, and Midle Easterns in the Caucasus, poos in India, etc, all they kept was northern Europe. I can tell you more if you want. Western Europeans and Eastern Europeans are two different tribes. "Nordics" are more related to Eastern Europeans. And the root of both Eastern and Western Europeans is in Central North Asia, aka Siberia. That's where they actually came from.

sort of right

you could have time-stamped it...

Italians were always white.
Southern Italians and Spaniards is what you get when Muslims invade for 700 years.

In a century you won't be able to find a white looking Scandinavian or German. You can thank Angela Merkel and other female politicians for that.

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hair and skin and eyecolor are actually tiny differences in comparison to the bigger differences. But is more of a visual clue as to latitudinal geolocation of various subspecies of humanity. I don´t believe either that humanity is different species but different subspecies. Like say a german shepherd and a rottweiler or whatever. Is probably not exactly the same. But they are both canis, same as a wolf is. So it´s very possible to be totally different in almost every way except being able to interbreed. If you are different subspecies but still same species.
Here is how i believe skin and eye and hair. UVA and uvb. So uvb let´s take eyes, eyes go dark brown, brown, hazel, green and blue and grey at next to no uva. And skin becomes from dark to much lighter. And hair becomes less and less coarse. And also lighter. And ofcourse everything is not so simple as people just stay where they are and don´t ethnically mix like 0% so you get intersects between latitudinal groups which makes it harder to tell. But that is what i think happens with skin and eye and haircolor. But the real pragmatic differences are much greater than simply those visual clues.

>Southern Italians and Spaniards is what you get when Muslims invade for 700 years.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_history_of_Italy

I dream that one day I won't have to post this link ever again. Why are americans convinced that every conquest somehow means the whole population gets blacked? Aren't you a bit obsessed?

>I can tell you more if you want.
Sure i mean, i always want to listen to people who know what they are talking about. So go ahead, i´ll definately pay attention to what you are saying.

Nope, Southern European looks come from way earlyer than that, during ancient times, it seems Muslim ocupation didn't leave much impact on our population, but the ancient migration from the Midle East did. It was arround 2500 BC

>wikipedia

Attached: dfghdhgd.png (1402x73, 27K)

The Germanic expansion

Attached: Vandelgoths.png (1117x708, 647K)

Well, my friend, either you manage to correlate those visual clues among Europeans with such "real pragmatic differences" or we don't have much to discuss.

>Why are americans convinced that every conquest somehow means the whole population gets blacked
Mostly conquest of empires and these things is rulers change over various nations and ethnic groups. And those ethnic groups be they nations or areas where certain ethnic groups were concentrated. Were more held in tribute as in they had to render unto ceasar that which is his so to speak to use a phrase. As in part of their work was they offer tribute in ressources or work or money to that ethnic group that controlled their territory. But it didn´t mean if one people were conquered that they just went in and fucked all their women. They stayed much the same for the most part.

We, well mostly "Nordics" or the original Indo-Europeans come from Siberia, the Siberian population from 25000 BC was called ANE, Anceint North Eurasians, in an individual from this tribe, 16,130-15,749 BC the alleles fro blonde hair were detected, they hunted Mammoths, till the Glaciar period ended extinguishing all the Mammoths. For some reason this population then migrated South West, got mixed slightly with Caucasus Hunter Gatherers (CHG) in their way, it seems CHG were present in what I today Russia, so in the midle of Caucasus, Russia and Europe. When they got mixed (for about 20% at that time) they became a different population Eastern Hunter Gatherers (EHG), they moved farther West (and some say they moved South as well, to the Caucasus and Midle East, but this is very very confusing, even though some traces of this are left as proof) till they reached Eastern Europe, right on the north of Caspian and Black Sea. There Yamnaya and Corded Ware were set, and from there it starts Indo-European expanssion into Europe.

this is the part were they are settled in the Caspian and Black Sea, their expanssion from there, pic related.

Attached: Indo-European_migrations[1].gif (1200x598, 2.28M)

this is 400 years after Caesar retard

Kek, those little numbers are sources

And? Did you miss this post?

This is way late mah mate, for this time Indo Europeans were settled in Europe for thousands of years and the Midle Eastern migrations had already happened thousands of years back as well. Check this:
Starts arrround 3500 BC

It's like people who think that Irish people with dark hair are the result of a Spanish ship crashing landing there that one time in the 1600s.

It's like, come on guys, I know they're Spanish, but they couldn't have possibly raped THAT many women.

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greek doesn't mean middle eastern

>Southern Italians and Spaniards is what you get when Muslims invade for 700 years.
Before Muslim, they had many slaves and refugees from North Africa/ Middle East and even had Semitic emperors

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>Well, my friend, either you manage to correlate those visual clues among Europeans with such "real pragmatic differences" or we don't have much to discuss.
Yes it´s behaviour and traits and intelligence, proclevities, and all manner of things. That people call culture and think it´s about music and dance and food and whatnot. I like to use this pic to explain it. The ones under the surface i believe to be very much genetically oriented. subspecies is culture culture is subspecies. There are obvious clues aswell as bone structure height muscle strenght fat percentage all kinds of things. But i think the more important ones for humans. Are cognitive functions as in behaviour! You see someone you know visually they are probably of that breed. You can many times reliably expect they behave that way and they mostly do!

What i was pointing out with skin and eye color and hair is. That you get intersects when different latitudinal groups mix a little bit. So you can get sometimes misleading visual clues. And then that person is like wew, i didn´t see that coming. This is kind of how people classified eachother like that through visual clues. Because it gave a good idea what to expect! But ofcourse the difference is not just surface level between them. It´s not just skin and eye color etc. that is the real difference.

Attached: cultural_iceberg_model.gif (792x576, 67K)

Or what i mean is skin and eye color and hair etc. is not the ONLY difference. It´s probably minor in comparison to the other differences. It´s just like he looks like that, he´s probably of that breed! So i know people of that breed/subspecies so they probably have that behaviour. And oftentimes they do. That´s how mankind winged it in past, quite well aswell. But before they knew how dna and all those things. Which gives a much better explanation of it aswell ofcourse.

Very interesting, thank you user.

True Irish and Brits came from Spain. That's where the Celts came from.
independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/celts-descended-from-spanish-fishermen-study-finds-416727.html

Who said anything about Caesar?
He asked about Northern Italy today
Look up Lombards

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Well, the Etruscans were from the Middle East so I guess you are right for pointing it out.

yw

fuck off mutt

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yeah germanic invasions brought those features to italy.

How do you correlate it exactly? The germanic tribes of 2000 years ago were closer in behaviour to Africans than other Europeans, yet they have become very successful in the Modern age.

I mean, it seems pretty silly to make a deterministic argument if that's what you are trying to do. If you are making a probabilistic argument I guess I could agree but I don't have the slightest clue of how you could quantify the impact of genetics compared to social variables. It's 90% genetics and 10% society? 50/50? 20/80? I think we are far out of our league here.

My family is from Florence and we all have blue eyes and light hair.
You need to quit coping; I know it's hard being a Terrone, but at least you're not fully African.

>yeah germanic invasions brought those features to italy.

God, why do you test me?

check the original post mutt, picture is obviously related

>Due to isolating themselves.
>Which the other groups perhaps not did so as much
Constant trade and being exposed to piracy and shit of that nature was the norm in the Mediterranean just by way of geography. Scandis and Germans (very sea faring people even in prehistory) were just kind of cut off after the collapse of the Bronze Age. I don't think they really wanted to be isolated. If you think they did willingly isolate themselves or have a theory I would really like to hear it though desu, Bronze Age/Iron Age stuff fascinates me.

Good god I can't believe how clueless our people are of their own history. Then they wonder why the Jews completely owns us all. I have spammed pic-related for two years inside these circles. What more will it take?

I mean, come on guys.... figure it out already.

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>whites are different races

fuck off swedcuck

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'no'

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nature.com/articles/ejhg2015233

See supplementary information (principally figure S8, information, & tables).

Summary: For northern Italians (Aosta Valley, Piedmont, Lombardy, Liguria, Emilia Romagna), "the total length of shared IBD (identical by descent - "a matching segment of DNA shared by two or more people that has been inherited from a common ancestor without any intervening recombination") blocks" and "average length of those segments in cM (centimorgan - "measures genetic linkage")" is observed to be the highest amongst these regions:

Belarus
Central European Utah (CEU)
Chuvash
Finnish
French
French & Spanish Basques
Great Britain
Hungarian
Iberian
Lithuanian
Orkney island
Romanian
Russian

Attached: ejhg2015233x8.jpg (3112x2056, 455K)

North were mixed with Germanics, as most of central and western Europe were.

>Florence
Don't even know the real name.

fuck off shill

Are you guys under a "spell"? What is going on with you? It is so simple... but you can't ever understand.
Something weird has happened to the West. Some type of dark spell.

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Firenze.
Was just there like 3 weeks ago, beautiful place, I liked the architecture there over Rome

Based and Halstatt pilled.

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Maybe this was the original schism and Nordics really did isolate themselves guise. Meds were pragmatic, economical people and would not tolerate this specific kind of autism. Nords used to exalt not only the Yamnaya phenotype but detest the gay alien skulls of those from MENA and etc... preferring their own robust bone structures. Look at the museums in Scandinavia even in these gay and disgusting modern times, bones fucking everywhere, Anglos even think it's morbid.

I'm not calling Germany Deutschland here so why would I call Florence Firenze? This is an English board.

Yes they mixed with the Nords obviously and yes they are white you faggot. Both are true.
sage

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Swedes are an offshoot of the Continental Celts. Seen in detail here The swedish political system of the past 1,000 years has been run by Khazarian Jews. So, the Swedes are our people... however mentally and politically they are our enemy.

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romulus was a descendent of esau so just fyi rome has been EDMOITE KIKES MED BLOOD since inception you dumb faggots

there were descendents of atlantean whites who lived there and mixed with the celts before the romans got there

This completely ignores Corded Ware descendants, aka R1a, Indo Iranians/Aryans, etc. Not to mention that directly links Celts with Scythians, first time I've seen that ever, eventhough it's true that they are from the same genetic component, R1b the line between the two seems to be very blurry, since Scythians were pretty much isolated in the midle of a cloud of R1a. Still nice theory.

Cool!

Attached: The Battle of Teutoburg - The battle that created Germany - Kelto-Scythians.jpg (1600x1065, 828K)

I now see why burgers are mostly excluded from chats about history. God damn fellas this is humiliating.

>he doesn't know the difference between Caesar and the Caesars

american Jow Forums is mostly made of retards, I don't even know how you guys manage to be redpilled about so many things, are you selectively retarded?

This meme needs to die. Yes OBVIOUSLY because of geographical location northern italians have a higher incidence of blue eyes and blonde hair, but the most common phenotype is still a mediterranean one like pic related. It also heavily depends how north you're talking, because the regions bordering austria and switzerland are made up mostly of ethnically german people who hardly even speak italian. If by "north" you mean Lombardia / Veneto / Friuli the most common phenotypes are still going to be MEDITERRANEAN, black/brown haired people with brown or hazel eyes.

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this and after that the Franks.

>are you selectively retarded?
That is how autism works fren

Germanic admixtures from earlier stages of migration, less Arab mixing during the Middle Ages.

ok this is kinda funny my mistake

>How do you correlate it exactly? The germanic tribes of 2000 years ago were closer in behaviour to Africans than other Europeans, yet they have become very successful in the Modern age.
That´s just not very true. It´s more like a negative meme that is based on not very good understanding of nordic/scandinavian history. Very good craftsmen and things like this in a quite ressource scarce environment. And didn´t do the empire stuff since that would involve btfo germans. Which was not really an option. So we traded around the world and master sailsmen to this day. And very good shipbuilders. We have danish company maersk who is responsible for what is it like 10% of naval shipping globally.
So it´s more like, it´s not true that we were like some in africa who did not even manage the wheel. Simply not the case. We were also very utilitarian, not building lofty things and like puffing ourself up like that with grandstanding. We still don´t have that mentality either. But we are always no bullshit and when we say we do something we always deliver. Have friend, i careful not to dox myself here, who work with making integrated things for maersk. And he deal with americans and indians and chinese for this venture thing. And they often say yes we have it for you this thing today. He say great.
>next day.
We don´t have it, can we get money for it anyway eventhough we had to make it finished as per contract to get monies.
And stuff like that. But when he deals with danish subcontractors, they always deliver right on time exactly what they promise. And if they say they can´t do it, they don´t promise it. So with them he is like. Hmm.. can you maybe do some more for us. It´s very cutting edge stuff.
Anyways. We have always been very low key in scandinavia about this. But we have not lacked in smart people, more in restrained territory and restrained ressources. So it´s not true what you are saying is long and short of it.

The bible is a big list of hebrew genealogy, but most white people don't even know what the Urnfield culture was

what you don't read history? kys

southern italians are half nigger

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Alexander's children.

>Iranians/Aryans
I didn't go back that far. The original purpose of making that map was a focus on the Scythian declaration by the Scots when they declared Independence. I later added the Hittie Connection after discovering similar head-wear / clothing attire and also simple geographical proximity. I wanted to attach the Indus Valley migration out of India... however the map being used does not have that region to work with. Anyways, the main focus was the connection between the Celtic Scots and the Celtic Scythians that the Scots themselves name as their ancestors in the Scottish Declaration of Independence.

You geneticist fuck a lot of things up. You tend to solely rely on genetics while ignoring the written historic chronicles of the ages. This is dangerous and leads to many problems. I believe BOTH historic written accounts and genetics need to be considered with historic documents taken president over genetics by a winning margin. Genetic departments at universities are filled with Jewish agents attempting to conceal, revise European history. Particularly with the case of Celtic European History being researched upon.

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>How come Northern Italians are blonde and have blue eyes?

Because they never mixed with Arabs like the Sicilians and Maltese did. A pure Italian is supposed to be Blonde hair and Blue eyes, not Dark hair and Brown eyes.

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That CGI/wax figure isn't Caesar
Just a dude wearing middle ages peasant cloths with a mullet

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>Constant trade and being exposed to piracy and shit of that nature was the norm in the Mediterranean just by way of geography. Scandis and Germans (very sea faring people even in prehistory) were just kind of cut off after the collapse of the Bronze Age. I don't think they really wanted to be isolated. If you think they did willingly isolate themselves or have a theory I would really like to hear it though desu, Bronze Age/Iron Age stuff fascinates me.
It´s more like we didn´t want to fight eachother that much, and were not that big populations either, so we try to make due with what we have really.

Dutch netherlanders, who are quite similar to us and germans, also in language and very many things in languages are similar. they do similar thing. instead of going fighting, they turn to the sea and say. sea you are my fucking bitch, massive land reclamation in netherlands. That they are experts on this issue globally. Dutch as i understand is also germanic tribe. Hitler was fascinated by all germanic tribes, that´s what he wanted that reich thing to be about, like an isolationist germanic commonwealth of all those nations he considered germanic tribes.

like this picture that is going around on here a lot. I think puts it pretty nicely.

But yes i think the isolation was not entirely voluntary either. You got big empires running around and due to where our nations and people are. We are not so many people. Can´t do an aweful lot compared to those. Till more opportunities arrived in more recent times to trade and be able to give more opportunities for better utilization and better infrastructure etc. That we can then build for ourselves. But we really were forced to have few people but then we tried to be smart as possible and make do with what we had available to do.

I guess that´s somewhat an answer maybe?

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Remind me of "egyptiuns wuz black befure muh evil arab invasion"

12tribehistory.com/was-esaus-descendants-in-rome/

EDOM = MED

I agree, I have a present for you, the "Lebor gabála Érenn : The book of the taking of Ireland", here it is:
archive.org/stream/leborgablare00macauoft/leborgablare00macauoft_djvu.txt

It also mentions Scythians as their ancestors, but mentions a different origin iirc.

The thing is I haven't seen the link between Celts and Scythians anywhere yet, I mean, why Scythians? Scythians aren't even that ancient, they can be if you make the connexion between Scythians and Yamnaya but that's unacademic as fuck, since there is no proof other than they are both R1b. I'm studying, and I love Celts and Scythians so damn much.

On the invasion of India, it was made by the Indo-Iranians/Aryans, R1a, they took mostly half of India. Later, Scythians named Sakas invaded the Indo-Greek kingdoms in Northern India. And even later Yuezhi invaded India, where I don't know but I've seen coins. It's all so chaotic, but I try to make sense of it all anyways, it is just that I've been made fun of so many times for trying to link Scots/Irish and Scythians. Apparently there is no proof. I've seen some people making the connexion but I myself can't.