I AM PISSED, PISSED ABOUT COMMUNISTS
HOW THE FUCK ARE MEANS OF PRODUCTION STOLEN? WHY ARE WORKERS ENTITLED TO THEM? A BUSINESS OWNER IS JUST A WORKER WHO BUYS OR MAKES A MEANS OF PRODUCTION AND PAYS OTHER PEOPLE TO USE IT FOR HIM. THERE IS NOTHING STOPPING WORKERS FROM BUYING OR MAKING THEIR OWN MEANS OF PRODUCTION. HOW IS THIS THEFT
*taps microphone*
test
test
taxation is theft
fippy bippy
Grow up and get a job commie faggot.
Domt expect iq or honesty from leftists / women.
>A BUSINESS OWNER IS JUST A WORKER WHO BUYS OR MAKES A MEANS OF PRODUCTION
no, when you go to a beard factory everybody is doing something to make bread happened. everybody, that is, beside one person, the owner. the owner doesn't work. he sits in his office. if he were cease to exist the bread will still be produced becouse ihe is in no way participating in its concrete production
So what if the owner put the money forward for them all to make the bread? He bough the factory, the supplies, the conveyer belts, and all items to make it happen. He just doesn't sit around, he manages finances, oversight and marketing. Do you seriously think he does nothing all day? Especially in small companies?
The owner put his time and money into the business, the owner has a lot more to lose than any of the workers do.
>if he were cease to exist the bread will still be produced becouse ihe is in no way participating in its concrete production
Do you genuinely believe that (assuming you meant if no one replaces him)?
Even IF the owner does jack shit all day, it’s still his/her business and they can do whatever they want.
The owner is responsible for investing the capital so the factory would be built
>THERE IS NOTHING STOPPING WORKERS FROM BUYING OR MAKING THEIR OWN MEANS OF PRODUCTION
most people cant even avoid debt, not to mention actually saving up to by "their own means of production"
for the proletariat to by off all the means of production with which they could live they would need untold sums of money.
think of buying up virtually all the machinery in america.
I sure hope you're merely pretending.
i didnt say he does nothing all day, i said he does not participate in the production of bread, meaning he doesn't actually work
sure, running a corporation can require much effort, pick pocketing can require much effort, think about all the stress a pickpocketer needs to deal with. but that doesn't mean pick pocketing is work
all the machinery, the supplies, the conveyer belts wew made buy workers, not capitalists
because he put forward the capital, risk, and expertise to start this operation.
and there's nothing stopping his workers from doing the same.
Shit troll
sure, but investing capital makes sense only in capitalism.
saying the capitalist "investing the capital so the factory would be built" is a tautology.
its like saying "the capitalist is there becouse capitalism exists"
Sure, but you can't just steal his shit because you disagree with capitalism.
Fuck bread. Our actual world runs on resources that are controlled by a very small number of people. Think oil, money, ect. You can't get into that bread factory, you can't even eat the bread, maybe you get crumb or two. Yet still, quite large chunks of your income go to that bread factory.
this is not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing with capitalism. capitalism is not up for debate. you cant debate away capitalism.
and "his shit" is not really "his". to whom belong the Trump Towers? to the people that built them or to Trump? you think that if we would to debate it then Trump would simply make those building common to all? no
>The sale of living activity brings about another reversal. Through sale, the labor of an individual becomes the "property" of another, it is appropriated by another, it comes under the control of another. In other words, a person's activity becomes the activity of another, the activity of its owner; it becomes alien to the person who performs it. Thus one's life, the accomplishments of an individual in the world, the difference which his life makes in the life of humanity, are not only transformed into labor, a painful condition for survival; they are transformed into alien activity, activity performed by the buyer of that labor. In capitalist society, the architects, the engineers, the laborers, are not builders; the man who buys their labor is the builder; their projects, calculations and motions are alien to them; their living activity, their accomplishments, are his.
He does work you fucking retard. He manages the budget of the factory so that when the work gets done it gets done more efficiently so the factory can turn a profit. THe owner manages spending and cost so the budget doesn't get out of control. Communism fails because nobody bothers to be careful with other people's money.
They belong to Trump because he turned his resources into materials and labour. Capitalism is not some esoteric ideology, it's a law of reality. You make something, it's yours. You give someone something in return for their services, the product of their services is still yours.
eg. "I will give you 3 berries to smash that rock for me. I will also supply a club to smash it with." That makes the smashed rock mine because we entered an agreement.
I think ideally if commies hate capitalism so much, they should start their own syndicated businesses. Or maybe even an entire network of syndicated businesses. You want a factory to be owned by the workers? Build your own factory. Surely 1000 workers could pool enough resourced together and build something.
> He manages the budget of the factory so that when the work gets done it gets done more efficiently so the factory can turn a profit. THe owner manages spending and cost so the budget doesn't get out of control. Communism fails because nobody bothers to be careful with other people's money.
that wrong on so many levels. outside capitalism there would be no budget, no profit and no spending. those are all activities preformed by under capitalism.
outside capitalism people just dont do those things. outside capitalism people go to factory (assuming that that's the way they will want to make bread) and the make bread, they then put the bread in a place people can take it. after they made the bread the go to a place when they can get other produce (like meat and vegetables) then they go to a house that some other people built. or maybe they go to a concert, or whatever.
people get to enjoy the results of their activity in a way unmediated by capital. what they do is directly theirs. it is COMMON to all
yeah the labor theory of value is pretty much all you need to realize Communism is for brainlets, don't really need to do anymore reading or research after that.
>I think ideally if commies hate capitalism so much, they should start their own syndicated businesses. Or maybe even an entire network of syndicated businesses. You want a factory to be owned by the workers? Build your own factory. Surely 1000 workers could pool enough resourced together and build something.
you're talking about cooperatives, but as long as capitalism exists those cooperatives would have to compete in the market,
>A democratic collective where you elect the guarantor of your misery is a cruel irony. That you would sacrifice your human capacities toward some productivity level required to keep your “full employment” in the US while the shantytowns of São Paulo molder is…still a misery, north to south. And yet this is the admirably humble program of democratic socialism at present. Its essence is “radical democracy,” per one of its leading lights, Bhaskar Sunkara, but not too democratic. We’d still work under conditions of market competition and all that entails. It would be “state-regulated,” but what can this mean? Competitive markets can only imply that your firm must be more productive than the next one over, compelling your boss—democratically chosen or not—to make you work harder or else to replace you with a machine.
there were budgets profit and spending going back to caveman days you moron
why should anyone then run a business if there isn't gonna be a profit?
the government would do a terrible job because no competition and then would end up subsidizing it with our tax dollars...
that's absurd, you dont have to go all the way to cave people to learn about people not dealing with profit and spending.
when the native Americans hunted dear the dear of a hunting party was placed in common, same as when a woman harvested corn, where is the saving, the profits and spending there? sure, they traded with outsiders to their tribe but among themselves they had things in common.
You commie fuckers don't understand modern world. Do you even saw how factory looks like? You fuckheads sure have fuckloads of theories how ebil capitalssizmds use workers and sit on their assess... But it's actually not true.
Modern corporatism is actually communism done right.
There's small bugger on the bottom. He's just putting bins with finished product on the pallet. Simple physical job where he won't fuck up anyghing; let him do that. Or maybe he throws out half product out of the bin. Or maybe he's just sitting somewhere in the corner, making cardboard boxes for product.
Okay, if guy is smart enough, he can stick labels - on the product, on cardboard boxes. Let him check the date, lot, batch number, any important data on product. Count the product in bins, how much has been done. Put product into cardboard boxes - right position, upside down or normal, front or back, how the product looks. Rejects. Product can be ugly, bad weight, it could be sealed in wrong way. More responsibility. Or, he is actually making boards with product, checking weight - his job is to make as much boards as possible.
If he's good, he gets better money, according to how much he has done. If he's really smart as well, he gets to be manager.
Check the machines, check the film, labels, check your team, their needs, communication with higher ups as well, meeting orders date by date. He gets missions to be done for today, and he decides which person should do which job.
You have separate team responsible for controlling weight of the products. Everything needs to have proper weight, not too much - loss for factory - and definitely not too small - client will just simply get angry and say ,,gtfo".
Separate team for quality checks. Guys check if everything is rejected properly. If product meets standards in laboratory. Workers care to produce as much as possible, these are guys to stop them in the tracks if they are going too crazy and quality falls down. (cont.)
ok go live like a nomad in the forest than if it's so desirable
lol the answer to that would be that they fucking shouldn't run a business. they should not bother themselves with profits and market competition
they should just fucking live. if they need houses then they built them, if they want meat then they raise cattle, if they want cloth then they make it. non of this is "business". its just life, its an end in itself
>people get to enjoy the results of their activity in a way unmediated by capital. what they do is directly theirs. it is COMMON to all
A great system for ant robots.
well, Uncle ted tried that. guess what, he saw that the forest around him was disappearing to make profit. he went to war after that.
what we need is a revolution, not me going off to the forest
>HOW THE FUCK ARE MEANS OF PRODUCTION STOLEN?
Communists used to justify this idea that everything was stolen with the labor theory of value. If you try to pin them down on it, however, they'll tell you they don't believe in it anymore so I don't know what they use to justify it now. Probably nothing.
>outside capitalism there would be no budget, no profit and no spending.
There will always be budget and spending as that is a function of the fact that resources over a period of time are limited and will always be limited. To the extent that any production has to take place, then resources must be directed into those line of industry that are necessary in order to produce the planned output.
This is spending. This is budgeting.
There may be not profit, however, if it is made impossible for people to buy the result of this production. If people were to simply be given stuff, then there would be no profit to speak of.
>people get to enjoy the results of their activity in a way unmediated by capital. what they do is directly theirs. it is COMMON to all
This makes zero sense.
>As settlers moved into the deliberately vacated lands where the very air they breathed gave them a taste of the recently eliminated freedom, they transformed vast woodlands into enlarged replicas of the hell they had left behind. The enjoyment of trails and forests ceased: the forests were burned; the trails became obstacle courses to be traversed as rapidly as Capital made possible. Joy ceased to be life’s aim; life itself became mere means; its end was profit. The variety of hundreds of cultural forms was reduced to the uniformity of a unique routine: work, save, invest, sell, everyday from sunrise to sunset, and count money after sundown. Every previous activity, and scores of new ones, were transformed from sources of joy to sources of profit. Corn, beans and squash, the “three sisters” respected and loved by the region’s previous inhabitants, became mere commodities for sale at food markets; their sowers and harvesters no longer grew them to enjoy at meals, feasts and festivals, but to sell for profit. Leisurely gardening was replaced by the hard work of farming, trails gave way to rails, walking was superseded by the locomotion of gigantic coal burning furnaces on wheels, canoes were swept aside by floating cities which stopped for no obstacle as they filled the air with burning embers and black smoke. The “three sisters,” along with the rest of their family, were degraded to mere merchandise, as were the trees that became lumber, the animals that became meat, and even the journeys, the songs, the myths and tales of the continent’s new inhabitants.
Cant wait for automation to make their entire argument completely pointless. Also how do they justify the fact that they didn’t make the machines they think they should own? Shouldn’t the workers who make the factory equipment own it all according to their retard logic?
I was broke and now I am wealthy. I started a business with a couple grand and it took off. Stop being a jealous faggot because you can figure out how to make money.
Imagine being this retarded
It's very difficult to speak of ownership with a commie because they don't really have a clear idea of what it is. To them it just means "license to exploit".
>Beard factory
Just about the only thing commies have ever managed to get right. All them niggas got beards that are downright luxurious.
>as long as capitalism exists those cooperatives would have to compete in the market,
So basically communism is less effective and cannot compete with a centralized system.
Another team is technicians. Workers want to do as much as possible, fastest as possible. Quality guys want it nice and cool. Weight check team wants products in proper weight. Technicians are making those dreams come true. Setting up machines, operating them, telling workers to GTFO if they try to speed up too much, explaining to quality guys machine has limits as well and not everything will be nice - rejects will always happen, and making all stuff running smoothly.
You need to storage all the stuff you need for production, and what you produced and want to send out. You need chemicals to clean the place. You need films, packaging, cardboard boxes, pallets, half product, finished product storage, things for transportation; storage space has to be used efficiently, computers controlling it - how much we have, how much we need. We need to put product into truck, and make sure it goes to client ASAP.
What product? What client actually wants? Maybe we can go out with proposition to him as well? Can we do something better in organization? There's always room for improvement, ALWAYS. Another team to make samples. Samples, samples, samples. Client likes it? Okay, so we need to actually implement PRODUCTION. Which machines goes where? How we can use our area efficiently? Where we can put in canteen for our workers to use? Which job is more important, and which one is less important? Safety regulations? There's lot's of stuff to coordinate in healthy, growing company. New products have to be invented, otherwise we will be left behind the markets.
Huh, marketing team. They are buying all the stuff needed, and they find all the smaller clients as well. Negotiate, sell sell sell! Those guys make money! If worker makes great, nice looking product, but nobody buys it, then his job is meaningless. There's no reason for LOADS of teams to exist, if you can't sell it. (cont.)
That argument is fucking retarded anyway, it only would take a group of workers to start another company that makes the same product to have competition, capital has nothing to do there
well good for you then. if you are a private person be a private person. this board is about Politics, "the public thing".
poverty is on the increase, with or without me, the yellow vests in France are a fine testament to that. this has to do with many reasons, in one sentence: Capital lost its dynamic nature in the 70's. from here on out most of us will be broke if were lucky, heavily indebted if were not. sure, so wiz kids will have money and will post pictures of themselves with hookers and fancy cars on Instagram but here we should be referring to our political situation
Workers would not push for a system that sends them to Gulag for not working hard enough. The boss class, and their union Commissar minions would though. Communism was all about industrializing Russia, and destroying the old agrarian system. Who benefits from that? The worker, forced to work with deadly machines, or the bosses? That's why the most vehement Commies are in the Middle Class.
Poverty is on the increase because you faggots want to import the 3rd world here and are letting foreigners depress our wages. If we stopped immigration tomorrow there would be a labor storage, wages will rise and birth rates will soar. But no you fucking faggots have zero concept of economic and operate off muh feels.
>but muh outsourcing
Its called tariffs faggot
>but they would sell to different markets
The US is the only consumer economy in the world that can buy most of the shit people make, don't give me that bullshit.
>in one sentence: Capital lost its dynamic nature in the 70's.
This is at once boomer and western centric.
>In the past, the majority of the world population lived in conditions of extreme poverty.[7][8] According to United Nations estimates, in 2015 roughly 734 million people remained under those conditions.[9] The number had previously been measured as 1.9 billion in 1990, and 1.2 billion in 2008. Despite the significant number of individuals still under the international poverty line, these figures represent significant progress for the international community, as they reflect a decrease of more than one billion people over 15 years.[10]
I’m not a commie but that’s a flawed argument. It’s technically true, but it’s unsound. A millionaire with a bunch of cars has “more to lose” than a homeless person who’s starving. What is the point of this argument?
And after that, you have owners. Every guy has 10-15% shares of factory. They form a team. Everyone wants to make money on it, that sweet cake. They strategize and plan. Where to spend money? What we should actually do with our toys? What's the future? What we are supposed to do to BE the future? Those guys decide. If they fuck up, everyone drowns with them. If they make good decisions, we have more jobs and better paychecks. But it's only possible if company does good job. In Polish, we have saying ,,you can't twirl a good whip out of shit". If workers are not cheating their boss, he is like Gandhi in Civilization game - backed with NUCLEAR WEAPONS.
He goes to clients. He make banquets for them. Invites them to splendid hotels in faraway countries. He shows them the sweet promise of the future.
Look at those beautiful samples. That's the stuff we are making. You want it in your market. It's going to be the best shit you ever had in your shop. Our company is capable of doing this. Everyone wants it. You as well, my bud.
Owners have connections, millions to spare, they invest, and everyone gets money.
Healthy corporation is incarnation of communism done RIGHT. If everything on every step is done properly, working in corporation is actually enjoyable thing. Even if you are on the bottom, you are happy - because you always get money on the time, and you ALWAYS be employed. You have assurance that some guy in upper echelons have done everything, so you can have a part of the cake as well.
Oh, right, commies can spew this stupid shit, because he never put even one cardboard box together in his pathetic life. You will never understand your dream has actually happened in many healthy factories out there.
But the point of the owner is not "how much he has to lose". In functional term, the owner is simply the person responsible for making production decisions. He is not, strictly speaking, non productive. His decisions are rather momentous. A producer who decides to allocate resources in a line of production in which people do not want the good produced will have been terribly non productive, whereas the correct decision will make him extremely productive.
It makes a big difference to all of us of auto maker decide to make what we want instead of producing a bunch of rusty nails nobody would care to buy. This difference in value between a bad and good decision is what the entrepreneur brings to the table of production.
The worker is not responsible for these decisions. Every scenario that involves him always presupposes that he partakes in some production plan someone else has already decided for him. This is true even in communism.
> lived in conditions of extreme poverty
we live in extreme poverty now. capitalism produces poverty, the abundance that it generates is experienced as AN ABUNDANCE OF DISPOSSESSION.
the cave man, our most earlier ancestors were in reality richer then we are.
think about the people that built the Trump Towers, they were dispossessed of their very activity.
the rice farmers in china do not become richer, even if they a surrounded with commodities. they actually grow poorer as capital accumulates.
the only progress is the progress of alienation
>Poor people are found in pre-agrarian and agrarian societies on every continent; if they are not poor enough to be willing to sell their labor when the capitalists arrive, they are impoverished by the activities of the capitalists themselves. The lands of hunters gradually become the "private property" of "owners" who use state violence to restrict the hunters to "reservations" which do not contain enough food to keep them alive. The tools of peasants gradually become available only from the same merchant who generously lends them the money with which to buy the tools, until the peasants' "debts" are so large that they are forced to sell land which neither they nor any of their ancestors had ever bought. The buyers of craftsmen's products gradually become reduced to the merchants who market the products, until the day comes when a merchant decides to house "his craftsmen" under the same roof, and provides them with the instruments which will enable all of them to concentrate their activity on the production of the most profitable items. Independent as well as dependent hunters, peasants and craftsmen, free men as well as slaves, are transformed into hired laborers. Those who previously disposed of their own lives in the face of harsh material conditions cease to dispose of their own lives precisely when they take up the task of modifying their material conditions. Those who were previously conscious creators of their own meager existence become unconscious victims of their own activity even while abolishing the meagerness of their existence. Men who were much but had little now have much but are little.
>capitalism produces poverty
Poverty is what is given. The base state is no production. Poverty, in other words, cannot be produced.
>the cave man, our most earlier ancestors were in reality richer then we are.
That's certainly a view and I doubt anyone using the internet need comment on it.
This is pure unadulterated retardation at its worst.
People with worse technology always get displaced by people with superior technology simply as a function of the fact that the latter can sustain a greater number and usually do. But this is not a function of capitalism. It's a function of your food output.
This is why pre capitalist societies were displaced by other pre capitalist agrarian societies thousands of years ago. The hunter gatherers could not demographically compete with their agrarian counter part.
capitalism is dying, we're sick of this shit. we font want to be "rich". we dont want no more job interviews, the individual, we dont want to start a business.
we want out now.
conveniently ignores this
This is again happening because of replacement migration. If there was no migration the decreasing population would be making alot more and would have more kids.
>we want out now.
I would be more than happy to separate from you lot so that you could experiment in whatever kind of society you'd like. Territory isn't sacred. Borders can be remade. Political unions can be broken.
>conveniently ignores an argument that makes no sense and only exists to make racism against immigrants seem "rational", and whenever anyone on Jow Forums disproves the irrational hatred of minorities with real statistics about immigrant crime, the countries immigrants come from etc. they get 12 joke replies calling them a fag/jew/liberal then the thread dies since retards have no real counter-argument because it was always about justifying racism not protecting labor
yeah wow you sure got him
>>>
if you think capitalism can tolerate an outside apart from itself you are mistaken, Capital is a very jealous God. this is why the buffaloes were exterminated, Capital cant tolerate people who dont sell their activity to him, Capitalism is domination. its the most totalitarian movement that has ever existed
there will be no border between it and and "the others" that it will recognize. this can only end in a global civil war. a total war. this war is now under way
Really if you noticed I said it was because of wage depression of unending flow of immigration is why poverty rises. Yet you resort to name calling instead of actually addressing the argument. Contrary to most of your beliefs, the third world is not very educated and when they come here are usually burdens. The H1B workers regularly depress wages as they are willing to work for cheaper than the native workers.
Still waiting for your counter to this and this
>Capital is a very jealous God. this is why the buffaloes were exterminated
I personally support buffalo communism.
But as we both know there is a variety of regimes that have existed in the world since 1917 ranging from "no real communism" to social democrat Sweden to quasi socialist France to Maoist China. The American empire can't stop it all and when it collapse you'll be able to have your whatever.
>1 post by this ID
>make your own internet
>make your own oil platform
>make your own monopolies
Oh wait... we're at that point of "capitalism", fast, press the reset button.
If you're over 25 and still an "anarchist" you should be in a mental ward before you hurt somebody
>Capital is a very jealous God
*jews are very jealous
really and if you think that pic related levels of wage depression are caused by something like 30% increase in the number of immigrants or that getting rid of immigrants is a legitimate strategy to protect labor rights and restore wages to 1965 ratio than you should put a plastic bag over your head and breath deeply for several minutes. thanks.
Think of debt as the easy way to buy your own means of production. It's almost free money waiting for them to start their own business. The problem is the average "worker" is incompetent at that. They will just squander it and fail to compete with the big brains. So they need to use the power of the state to mandate it instead, because they were born average and are envious of others wealth. Communism was born out of greed and envy, and everyone who pushes it does so out of greed and envy whether they know it or not.
I'll take the bait.
So imagine I'm a business owner that employs two people sitting in their offices and doing data entry. I'm doing meetings all day and organizing and planning expansion, doing the HR stuff and making salescalls.
To what percentage/share of the company (give me a number) are the two workers who work for me entitled in your communist worldview?
>we want out now.
what exactly do you claim? If you don't claim anything set up a godfundme and we'll fund you a one way ticket to Somalia
To further compond on it. If there are more jobs than labor, the workers can demand more money. If you have an unending flow of desperate workers who will undercut the worker who wants more then you see wages stagnant. That is what happens when you constantly import people from poor countries as 20k a year is better than what they had before. While the average Joe worker wants 40k-60k for the same labor. In a closed system, those jobs that no one wants to do will be the highest paid positions. We saw that with the disruption of immigration farm workers where farms had to increase wages and native born people did the work.
Somehow ignores the 1965 immigration act which drastically increased immigration to the country. The data correlates to that act passes and a significant enough of immigrants to pour in to depress wages.
And yes a labor storage will increase wages. Just cut the tap off and deport all the immigrants on welfare and you find a society who is growing wealthier, having more kids and a decrease in state spending.
>THERE IS NOTHING STOPPING WORKERS FROM BUYING OR MAKING THEIR OWN MEANS OF PRODUCTION
The lack of capital. They only way for them to get capital is to confiscate yours (by peoples courts)
You are genuinely the most stupid person on Jow Forums right now and THAT says something. You never amounted to anything great in your life and it shows how badly you want to get it by CHEATING your way to this level of success. Go back to school, get a good job and report back in 5 years. I barely wonder why I go here instead of my home board. Enjoy my OC comfy background picture.
or you work and save it.
R E S E T A S A P
An owners current production capacity is dependent on his workers.
Without them he can not produce at the same capacity.
You only own what you create.
Good one
Thats what I did.
>The lack of capital.
programming languages are free. all you need is a laptop and a place in a public library nowadays. stop looking for excuses and move your ass, Slavoj.
>They only way for them to get capital is to confiscate yours
that's not correct. If you want learn to code I'll pay you 10$ per hour to build apps for me.
No capital needed. Meanwhile you'll be trying different business ideas and the 17th business idea might succeed. to scale it you'll go to the bank and get a business loan.
It's simple but not easy but if you keep your victim mindset it'll eat you from inside
K I L L A L L C O M M I E S A S A P
By having no social life and eating garbage that will shorten your lifespan?
the stinky commies thinks it's a joke because he looks like pic related and nobody wants a stinky 40yr old faggot with a gender studies degree
I know C++, MIPS assembly, python, C, Java, and i say you are a turd that is so disconnected from reality that cant understand that pushing shitty code on propiertary middlewears and platforms aint getting you nowhere
S O O N, B O O T L I C K E R
your life isn't worth anything scum. kys
by inciting a revolution you're shortening the lifespan of you and your filthy family
T H I S
Nope. I just learned skills that paid me starting at 60k. Made it to a 100k, had an idea and made it happen and all the sudden started to make alot. Stopped my job and been doing it full time and had to hire people to help recently. So yeah its totally possible. I am 29 btw.
Don't argue with losers like
>@207643120
Don't give them any more attention then they deserve. Let them starve in real life and in attention. There's better ways to spend an afternoon.
>The data correlates to that act passes and a significant enough of immigrants to pour in to depress wages.
no it doesn't. Show me the formula where wages since the 1970s are determined primarily by the number of immigrants coming to the country. In fact, the graph show wages going up in the late 90's early 2000s the exact same time when levels of immigration from Mexico were increasing a lot because of NAFTA.
How are immigrant workers who make 20k a year threatening the pay of a middle-class steel or auto worker in Ohio who now has no job or union benefits? The segment that has lost the most wealth since the 1970s is the middle class, people with solid union and government jobs which could never have been replaced by an illegal immigrant in the first place because of strict regulations.
>In a closed system, those jobs that no one wants to do will be the highest paid positions
lmao yes I remember back in the 1940s when garbage men made more than wall st. CEOs. I can't even touch on the level of idiocy and lack of understanding you display here. You cite no statistics, no graphs, no actual numbers can be provided to support your argument. You just don't like immigrants (or have been told they are bad) and are working backwards from that conclusion trying to find reasons to make your dislike seem rational.
I could give examples all day for why your claim doesn't make sense, but it doesn't even matter, since your goal is just to make immigrants=bad, it has nothing to do with actually protecting labor. If you actually cared about labor rights you would be a leftist, not a generic conservative apologist.
This is a bit antiquated. Marxism is pipe dream for idealists of the industrial revolution.
I am not inciting a revolution. But the neets soon are. And it will be not pretty. Do you think all that outcast and depressed people that opt out of job market will stay like this forever? When Yang betrays them, it will be hell on earth
And you are all day away form home and your gf eats nigger cock
>marxism
>idealist
Here is the immigration chart. As you see we had added 30 Million new legal immigrants since 1965. This is not including the approx 11 million - 30 million illegals.
>90s
A new technological innovation that only natives knew how to at the time so wages rose.
>How are immigrant workers who make 20k a year threatening the pay of a middle-class steel or auto worker in Ohio who now has no job or union benefits?
Unions lost their power as there were more immigrant scabs that would take their position than native workers willing refuse to work.
>lmao yes I remember back in the 1940s when garbage men made more than wall st. CEOs.
Where I live garbage men made more than I did as a software engineer. Also many union workers make more than average CEOs in New Yorker. The harbor masters make about 500/hr. We also never had a completely closed system before.