ok, so I spend some time looking at r9k BS like PUA, MGTOW, lookism, blackpill and such garbage.
All I could get from this was that humans are basically polygamous and hypegamous.
The other things are just that women prefer males that are good looking, tall, rich, inteligente and other shit they see at alpha males (so called Chad meme).
Ok, this seem like the most rational approach to r9k BS. The other shit simply reeks of incel butthurt they're not chad.
So, what can I do after this? So what if humans aren't biologically monogamous but they're deep down polygamous and hypergamous?
>humans aren't biologically monogamous but they're deep down polygamous and hypergamous? Wtf are you talking about? Humans evolved to be monogamous. nature.com/articles/srep32472 But just because we evolved to be a certain way, doesn’t mean we have to act that way. Humans are intelligent enough to decide to do what they want and not be slaves to muh evolution, hence the diverse sociocultural attitudes on relationships across the world
Aiden Thompson
most cultures in history weren't monogamous.
Half of the world is still polygamous.
Aiden Johnson
Keyword is cultures. Humans evolved biologically to be monogamous, but we became smart enough to develop complicated societies and have diverse views on monogamy/polygamy. Do what you want, but don’t let yourself be swayed by the “muh nature” argument.
Isaac Cook
well just look at nature if you want to understand humans. compare tournament species with pair bonding species. also notice how the females in nature are going for good genes and resources. this is scientific fact.
Wyatt Ortiz
monogamy is mostly a western invention, is not even a majority view among all civilizations on history.
also even in the west, people still glorify things like casanova and james bond, who are polygamous.
Josiah Long
So you’re just going to ignore studies like that say that humans evolved to be monogamous? You do realize there’s a distinction between biological evolution and and cultural evolution?
Leo Butler
monogamy evolved culturally on humans to stop things like spread of STD, but humans aren't monogamous, but serial monogamous.
otherwise humans wouldn't cheat or get new partners after their couple died, or wouldn't divorce.
the fact that 1/4 of all fathers raise kid that aren't genetically his kid unaware, is evidence women aren't monogamous.
Jose White
We’ll just keep going in circles with this. The point is it doesn’t matter whether humans are intrinsically monogamous or polygamous or whatever. We are intelligent and aware enough to decide for ourselves what we should be. Do YOU want to be monogamous or polygamous? You have the ability to decide for yourself instead of saying “well humans are supposed to be X because biology, guess I’m forved to do X forever”
James Bell
still very skeptical about that because we still have many mechanism leftover from our very promiscuous past.
Jace Allen
monogamy doesn't provide more benefits than other social arragement.
is not particularly superior to polygamy, and mormons clearly shows that you can have a society with low crime and clearly functional with polygamous families.
Arabs are also polygamous and Indians use arranged marriages.
Michael Turner
That’s the danger of falling for the evolutionary biology meme. We assume a certain human behavior is purely biologically driven and then develop tunnel vision and ignore that the truth is way more complicated.
Hunter Cooper
You didn’t answer what you personally wanted though. I’m starting to suspect that you don’t really have any need for advice, and just want to argue.
Luke Bailey
I think your problem is that you think humans are too civilized. I bet if you remove the cultural part of monogamy humans will default to a more polygamous state. humans require religion and government to keep them together.
Dylan Ross
>I bet if you remove the cultural part of monogamy humans will default to a more polygamous state Call me when you perform that experiment >humans require religion and government to keep them together. [citation needed]
Cameron Garcia
I just want to talk about r9k BS.
I think we can agree a lot of shit like divorces and cheating are because humans aren't 100% monogamous, the Chad meme comes from hypergamy.
So far so good, but like I said, monogamy started from abrahamic religions to ensure a certain way of marriage, which is a good optimal arragement for society, if you keep women from trying to pick up who they marry to.
It seems clear that all the sexual liberation was mostly a return to a more primitive status for humans.
I literally read an economy thesis about hypergamy bro.
Tinder is what humans seek biologically.
John Mitchell
One of the biggest flaws of incel thinking is that they, despite being dateless virgins, know exactly what women like in a man. Furthermore they think all women have the same exact taste in men. Which happens to be a tall muscular guy, which is what gay men like, not women. Many incels are closeted.
>monogamy started from abrahamic religions to ensure a certain way of marriage, which is a good optimal arragement for society I hate to keep referring back to that Nature article from earlier in the thread, but it claims that monogamy developed as an evolutionary, not cultural, strategy. Monogamy was optimal to ensure that human babies got the care they needed, since one devoted parent wasn’t enough. Its entirely possible that as humans got better at abstract thought that they chose to be more polygamous because pleasure is better. And this is interesting and all, but what does it offer in terms of practical knowledge? Being a detached academic observer only gets you so far.
Grayson White
How do you explain Islamic societies or 19th century Mormonism that made polygamy legal and moral?
Luke Williams
like I said, it seems a protective manouver over STD, since monogamous towns would suffer less from spreading STD in ancient times.
At least that's what I've read.
Of course humans are monogamous, but is more a serial monogamy that last a couple years to a decade.
Dylan Mitchell
>PUA
This is a mix. It really depends what the source is. "PUA" gets a lot of shit, but the context and time in which it arose WAS one of massive female choice, where the internet was coming into being and men who would otherwise have had no chance were sharing ideas online - many of those ideas were bullshit made up to sell ebooks or other content, but I don't see a problem with guys living within a certain context of female elevation and choice attempting to gain some power in that situation, it's natural.
>MGTOW
MGTOW is a healthy response (and I'd argue ultimate 'dialectical' end) to MRA shit. It's pretty simple. As the internet took off, men were suddenly able to share experiences, insecurities, fears, etc relating to their experiences of women and the legal system. This led to red pilling - males raised in contexts of female elevation and privilege and institutionalised misandry had been taught to repress awareness of these things, and this was mental torture for most of them. So many men became 'red pilled' and more aware of men's issues, leading to the MRA movement - but most of these men still believed women collectively and society would somehow respond to MRA complaints, when in reality most women dismiss male complains, and these complains can't easily be expressing in the mainstream without ridicule, so most won't try and most give up - MGTOW is an attempt to maintain this consciousness of male issues, without being reduced to a "systems debugger" for a gynocentric society.
>lookism
Justified to a huge degree. Looks ARE the fundamental issue here, even when it comes to gynocentrism. The only issue is that those who focus a lot on this are often self-pitying types and a lot of autists who end up acting as if looks are 100% of the issue in all relationships, all the time.
cont...
Daniel Mitchell
...cont
>Blackpill
This was a garbage term made up by an r9k tripfag who most robots at the time didn't even like. He forced himself as a meme, did gather a small following but not the majority of r9k, in fact most of r9k at the time only adopted the blackpill term ironically, but the widespread ironic use apparently morphed into people using it seriously (these were mostly incels, who took over the board, and ruined r9k culture).
Now a general comment. You have to be aware that most of this 'men's movement' stuff is outside of the mainstream. Mainstream society and the MSM have no interest in ever representing these things accurately, and the gynocentric nature of society mean that generally very few men ever actually advocate on behalf of these movements. So while most of these ideas have a lot of legitimacy in origin - they're prone to corruption, over-simplification, to morons appropriating the ideas and mixing it with their own ideology, etc. None of this is ever really rigorously established in any scientific way, either - because society simply doesn't tolerate any real investigation of these issues. Try going on any academic paper website and searching for a term like "women and girls", you'll find hundreds of millions of articles from around the world focusing on women and girls as a unique class, try the same thing with men and boys, or simple men, and you find practically nothing sympathetic to them. This is the nature of society and it always will be, so if you want decent insight into these issues, you have to search it out and constantly be critical in evaluating claims.
cont...
Adam Davis
...cont
Most of the graphs and stats you see on hypergamy, polygamy, or even monogamy come from questionable sources, with very limited data, and they're often being pushed by dodgy politically-motivated parties.
As I see it, r9k from 2010 to 2015 or so was wonderful, because the focus was on "intellectual" 'misogyny', that is there were a bunch of sensitive, introverted males, motivated by a desire for love and companionship struggling to maintain a consciousness of things that the mainstream rejects, while also attempting (but often failing) to reject poisonous claims by the "manosphere", which was often more interested in stoking male fear of women to make a buck from clicks, or just for attention, that in presenting the truth. r9k was eventually destroyed by normies and "incels" who are basically soulless NPC types and nothing like the true r9k crowd.
Dominic Thompson
Not even mentioning the outright made up bullshit articles that incels accept as fact.
Aiden Torres
>humans want to be around and fuck other attractive humans, the more the better
What’s your question?
Easton Torres
That was another major shift with r9k as the incels became a larger demographic. It went from actual discussion of personal experiences coupled with various sources of data, especially MRA stuff which was often at least somewhat decently researched... to basically reposting cuck roleplay and\or betrayal revenge stories from reddit and tabloid clickbait articles from The Mirror about how every second woman wants to cheat on you.
People who identify as incel are generally to be avoided.
