Did anyone ever give a rebuttal to this old post?

>but dont try to tell me people here really have tried for "years and years" instead of giving up and finding excuses not to, like "its too late now" etc.
I'll halfway meet you here and say most anons near wizardry are/were probably stuck in a dead-end job and lacking direction. It's very difficult to be motivated when there's nothing and no-one to be motivated by. Where are supposed to looked at that point?

>like "its too late now" etc.
You cannot tell me that you're not starting at a fucking HUGE disadvantage as a grown-ass wizard lacking in all life experiences? Funny thing is I'm pretty sure many wizards have an idea of a direction now, that's not really applicable now in this part of their lives.

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I just don't know what to say to it. There's so many things wrong with it and I just can't be bothered to rebuke it because as you can see
people aren't interested in a rebuttal anyway. It's just a false flag, and if I bothered I'm sure I'd see it become a Matroyshka of justifications and side steppings.

The fact is most people become aware around 10 or 11 or so that you're not just gonna get handouts from life or from people.

The OP of that post does not seem to possess this understanding.

Most Jow Forumsicers are peak normalfags, you should ask this question elsewhere

>sunk cost fallacy on depression
We didn't say it's easy, we said it's worth it. See, this is why nobody fucking bothers rebuking it because you guys want so desperately to be exempt of your responsibilities to yourself as an independent being.

It's not about 'where you look.' It's about recognizing necessity for what it is and providing to meet its demands.

Most people don't want to read a wall of text rant so you will not get a rebuttal. Can you give a tl;dr?

>IT'S NOT MY FAULT, WE LIVE IN A SOCIETY AND THAT SOCIETY SHOULD BEND FOR ME, REEEEEEEEE

>The fact is most people become aware around 10 or 11 or so that you're not just gonna get handouts from life or from people.
Who's asking for a handout? Why is wanting to be part of society and not to be shunned "asking for a handout"?

The post is more about being frustrated with the state of things, both of you need to stop projecting
Its a good wall of text once you smooth out the rough edges and think for yourself, not just blindly agreeing or disagreeing with what user had to say

Still waiting for that tl;dr. If you're not going to give one I will assume is right.

call me a s o y faggot but i'm a little afraid to read all of this, i think i'll be sucked right in and absorb everything

>life sucks as a social outcast and if you don't course correct while you still have time (teens-twenties), it will continue sucking forever.

>s o y
Go away zoomer, you made losers and wizards especially reviled these days.

Nothing wrong with it, the point is that him being unable to dance is the fault of him doing nothing to learn it

Bitch stfu

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You could be fucked at any time, once you become self aware, that's when it ends. This is how you see basedbois and fatasses who are still somewhat successful in life, it's because they lack the self awareness. Also, here comes the ''have sex'' comments by the retards of this board, beware

At what point did it become his fault of not learning to "dance"?

What retarded bullshit.

How so?

The question is what did he do to learn how to dance? You learn it like any other skillset by doing it repeatedly.

You can learn the side step in your room in front of the screen in 5 minutes. Then maybe another step in another 5 minutes. If you have that down you dance as well as 70% of peple. When he says he never learned it that just tells me he never did anything to learn it and I have no sympathy for that

>When he says he never learned it that just tells me he never did anything to learn it and I have no sympathy for that
How can you assume that? I mean, let's move away from the "dance" analogy and speak clearly, most people attempt to integrate themselves into some sort of social group early in their lives and if you're shunned or bullied you're going to withdraw, especially if there's no other group to fall into. And then you're just defensive and withdrawn when an opportunity does arrive because you can't tell the difference.

Alright you got me

Because?

assuming you're a special kind of broken person and most people are normies is inherently egocentric. you're assuming that you're a special butterfly of tragedy when you're statistically more likely to be an average person. people don't understand that actually being dysfunctional socially means you can't even go to the store or do small talk. there's a vast difference between social anxiety and actually not being socially functional.

I honestly only skimmed this but the whole incel mindset that seems to be in that post, and is very frequent on Jow Forums is a combination of anxiety and depression that makes their worldview jaded. It's mostly bs but easier to refute on a case by case basis. Like most people here can't get a date because they are so afraid of rejection that they don't try, and that reinforces their negative views, and then once they DO try they've put so much emphasis on the whole thing that when they get do get rejected it solidifies everything and makes their internal dialogue so much worse. They think what they tell themselves is true but it's so wrong, and now they feel they have actual real life evidence supporting it when it's just supporting the fact that they haven't done shit.

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>assuming you're a special kind of broken person and most people are normies is inherently egocentric.
Maybe.

>you're assuming that you're a special butterfly of tragedy when you're statistically more likely to be an average person.
When you're a wizard with no social life I don't think that means you're part of the herd.

>I honestly only skimmed this but the whole incel mindset that seems to be in that post
>incel
Read the whole thing, the post is from way before the incel thing and from when we were foreveralones. I mean, it's not like the rest of Jow Forums where a bunch of teens complain about little problems that are easily solved with a little time and effort on their part. It's about anons who reached their 30s without having lived anything remotely what could be called a life. How do you fix something like that?

either way you've only got one option and that's to claw your way up or die
it's your choice either way and justifying it isn't gonna change things

>When you're a wizard with no social life I don't think that means you're part of the herd.

Yeah it does because you’re not the first person in society ever to be alone, many people experience rejection or isolation for a long time and become depressed as a result of that. I said it was an incel mindset because it is and to point out how this type of philosophy is so commonly relatable to depressed internet anons that there’s entire cultures made out of it.

>I mean, it's not like the rest of Jow Forums where a bunch of teens complain about little problems that are easily solved with a little time and effort on their part.

Most of Jow Forums is depressed and lost young adults, talking about this exact type of shit. I’d say it’s skewed more towards the 20s than the teens.

>It's about anons who reached their 30s without having lived anything remotely what could be called a life. How do you fix something like that?

You fix it by going through therapy and deciding to be better, which this post quickly skips over even though it’s included as advice that isn’t helpful because it actually IS helpful. Most people on here have never really even gone through or heard of cbt and it’s very effective at correcting a lot of the base cognitive distortions that people with depression are controlled by. Easily half of the posts in the catalog are textbook cases of some cognitive distortion.

This post wrongly assumes that because you’ve faced rejection before you’re doomed to face it again in the future no matter what you do. Yes, isolation causes mental anguish even in small doses. Experiencing that for many years causes an extreme amount of mental damage to someone, but that doesn’t mean they can’t recover.

It’s akin to saying an obese person can never lose weight because being fat is all they’ve ever known. Sure it would have been a lot easier to start ten years ago, but that doesn’t mean it’s not possible today.

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I see a person who chooses to self victimize and masturbate to their own philosophies and false dichotomy. There is a lot of all or nothing thinking in that post and too much self-defeatism that really dissuades anyone from bothering to form a rebuttal because the point of doing so is to change ones mind. This person is very clearly entrenched in their position and requires the help of a good therapist or support network.

What this person wants is validation for their suffering and nobody can or should give that to them. They need to break down the areas of their life that they're unhappy with and change their way of thinking. They need to look for small successes and lessons from failures. They need to build themselves up and trust in their own ability. When others see that, they'll form a support network and it'll snowball.

This person is someone who is afraid to try because they've experienced biting failure after failure with nothing to show for it and they're convinced they belong on the bottom. Lots of anons have been there and lots of anons have escaped from it. But you need to try and be willing to continue to fail and hurt. It's when you stop and ruminate like that man that you lose.

Here's a kitten if you managed to make it this far.

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basically the rebuttal is: you make the world you live in. The user that wrote the post very plainly makes tons of choices which isolate himself, and there is a clear refusal of both action and mindset for taking any steps which might get the user out of his predicament of not having friends. Your social perceptions are out of whack and you view things in a distorted way from most of society, I would say, which makes things harder for you than most.

But you wallow in self-pity and because you have built your ego around how much harder you have it, having it hard is part of your identity, and so you do nothing to make your life easier or learn how to adjust your behavior so as to communicate with the rest of the world more smoothly. People give up on you as a lost cause because you refuse to help yourself, you see that as further abandonment and proof that you were right, which confirms that you don't have to change what you're doing. This is a negative spiral and it reinforces itself.

Instead, work backwards, conceptually. You DO have to change what you're doing. You were wrong. It's not further abandonment; they were willing to be your friends, you just need to communicate better, and try to adjust how you approach interactions with people, life won't be hard, and you can be confident.

This string of self loathing can be picked apart, but the part that always gets me is the post about losing weight. Genetics have fuck all to do with anything. Stop eating trash, do some basic calisthenics, fry some eggs, and count your calories. If you put effort into yourself, and then put effort into interacting with people, you WILL get a 'return on investment'.

Don't matter now. If you're 30+ now you must have noticed how shit (and fake) the world is getting in TYOOL 2019.

Taking in your posts but:
>It's not further abandonment; they were willing to be your friends
Who do you mean by they?

You're a teenager though.

You get exactly what you want. If you are friendless it's because you want to be. The vast majority of our desires are unknown even to ourselves. We enjoy the masochism of some situations so we deliberately create them and live in them in order to experience it. The only possible route to anything is to accept the way things are because whatever happens you desired it.

>You get exactly what you want
Er... no. That's not how it works.

>You get exactly what you want.
wat

Yep everything that happens to us is exactly what we desire, even bad things. We enjoy negative emotions deep down.

Meh. Sounds like bullshit.

I don't think people desire to be a social outcast, at least not in the early part of their lives.

Every action you take is because you wanted to take it. How you feel about your life is merely your thoughts about it but your thoughts aren't what you are. It isn't possible to do something we don't want to do, otherwise we wouldn't do it.

Social outcast is a made up concept. Your life situation is exactly what you want. The rest is how your mind interprets it through thought patterns but this is mindless chatter and not what's real.

>Social outcast is a made up concept.
You're full of shit.

No you are, your mind is. What i'm saying is absolutely the case.

When a fucking anime discussion forum became part of the political landscape you know something is especially wrong with the world today.

Judging by your shitty and cringey attitude, they're right. At least in your case

>calisthenics
The what now?

Self-aware of the hand you've been given?

Not to devalue anything that's been said, but man that's a lot of shit to read for something that's only going to result in a fruitless internet fight.

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It's a nature vs nurture argument.

The poster is, to an extreme, on the side of nature. Meaning your environment has full effect over you, and you don't have free-will.

But if you don't believe in fate, or at least, if you believe you have free will, agency, and self-determination, then his argument falls completely apart.

It's hard to either "prove" or "disprove", because it's a philosophical argument rendered in a rational way. You're not going to find a rational rebuttal (nor rational support) because it's all abstract.

But just like the first movie Matrix, it's better to believe you have free will. Because if you do AND if you're right, then you can live a higher life. But if you do AND you believe you don't, then you're stuck in the matrix forever.

So personally, I believe I have the "divine spark", free will, agency, whatever you want to call it. Because like Neo said "I don't like to believe that I'm not in control of my own life."

Inversely, the appeal of submitting to the nature argument is that you can safely give up and live for pleasure, live for yourself. When you can't control anything, then what's the point? Just eat cheetos and play video games.

I think most successful people are like me and Neo, and most failures are like the poster.

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That deterministic worldview is misguided when you take into consideration things outside of peoples control..looks, financial standing, health issues (aside from ones related to exercise), mental health or disability etc. If you are what your mind is, and your mind is defective then how is it your choice to be in a less than ideal situation?

There are too many factors to simply assume most people want to self-flagellate all the time. The majority want to be happy or at least content.

Better than the threads that litter Jow Forums now.

>There are too many factors to simply assume most people want to self-flagellate all the time. The majority want to be happy or at least content.
I guess with self-harm (both mental and physical) is like reasserting some control of your life, where you can decide where and when to harm yourself rather than being at the whim of life.

>Bitter cope: The post

That is about 85-90% bullshit. It's even contradictory at several points.

Because if everything fails when you try with 1000 different people, the common factor is *you*.

>I'll halfway meet you here and say most anons near wizardry are/were probably stuck in a dead-end job and lacking direction. It's very difficult to be motivated when there's nothing and no-one to be motivated by. Where are supposed to looked at that point?
That's a pretty big thing. No one has an automatic motivation. You have to lift yourself up and find it yourself, no one will do it for you. You ask "what is the point", but you have to ask yourself what do you want the point to be, and then go from there.

>people have to help me!
>people have to be nice!
>things have to lend to my success!
>things have to be palatable to me!
>bla bla bla! me me me!

Not saying it's you but the guy who posted the OP's wall of text isn't just terminally self-obsessed, he's probably clinically unwell with a condition that keeps him that way.

This is what we mean when we say 'get help.' No, there's no 'instant cure' for their types but fuck, Jow Forums is possibly the worst thing you COULD do for yourself.

The problem is it's a bunch of people who demonstrably don't help themselves, claim that they DO help themselves, directly engage in self-destructive habits despite being warned not to and then somehow, someway, manage to find the gall to blame the rest of the world.

If it's so fuckin' bad then just leave, man. None of us asked you to be here. The world owes you nothing; anything you don't make for yourself is given to you on gracious loan.
Sooner or later in this life, you have to be ready to stand alone. I don't understand all this codependency and so I can't wrap my head around an answer really.

The guy in OP's post is basically just mad that he doesn't have a girlfriend and doesn't do well socially.

It's such a weird fad. Even a virgin like myself will be called an incel despite trying to improve my situation. No wonder people give up altogether when you're supposed to please the same ones who mock you for never sticking it in a hole.

>The guy in OP's post is basically just mad that he doesn't have a girlfriend and doesn't do well socially.

No, he's mad that he didn't have the same starting position/support group as others did and he's mad that no one is acknowledging that.
(The guy clearly understands his tendency for self-sabotage since he uses "Notes From Underground" as the OP image.)

>The world owes you nothing;
>anything you don't make for yourself is given to you on gracious loan.
>Sooner or later in this life, you have to be ready to stand alone. I don't understand all this codependency and so I can't wrap my head around an answer really.
I feel like you're the sort of person that attributes all his successes solely down to himself and no one else, as if your world experiences and the people around you didn't shape you.

Tell me if I'm wrong.

>1000 different people
I wouldn't really say the chavs and thugs that I grew up around as a "1000 different people". I only started meeting different people waaaay after.

>Tell me if I'm wrong
You are, but that's a strawman and you should feel ashamed for trying to derail it.

I'm going to paraphrase it like this. If everyone in the world thought and acted like him instead of, again paraphrase and euphemisms present, "sucking it up," he wouldn't have a fucking internet to bitch about it on.
The argument is too long-winded to put onto Jow Forums. It would require a serious debate, a preface, two sides intent on uncovering a truth rather than asserting their correction, and most likely a bottle of expensive drink. That's just the nature of the discussion, it delves into truths of things and matters of the heart.

But this guy's just bitching to bitch. The rebuttal is simple: nobody likes that attitude, not even himself. He's sabotaging himself and if that's the case then he's just trying to use that to doomsay about everyone's position in life when in reality, his could be gratuitously better if he'd just stop propagating all the worst parts of it and of himself.
The rebuttal is that his life is undeniably shittier because of his approach to it, and he basically suggests that his approach is superior.

The whole thing reeks of codependency. And, of course, of a guy who puts sex with a woman magnitudes higher than most other things.

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Bump

You get called an incel if you act like an incel. Incels are maybe 0.001% of male virgins.

and yet based on how the term is thrown around these days you'd think it was half of all men.

I only really hear it on the internet.

Incels just concentrate on Jow Forums. They are a loud vocal minority. Since they don't have jobs or anything intelligent to do they post their autistic rage all day long and make it seem like there are more of them than actually are. Same goes for gays and trannies.

>The whole thing reeks of codependency.
Kinda need another person to be codependent.

The rebuttal is that his life is undeniably shittier because of his approach to it, and he basically suggests that his approach is superior.
I think he's suggesting that his earlier life has permanently shaped his future into a miserable one, which isn't a great way to go about things but I still feel you're not acknowledging that his earlier life was not completely in his control and formed his current attitude. At least admit that.

>You are, but that's a strawman and you should feel ashamed for trying to derail it.
>The whole thing reeks of codependency.

There's still this streak of "I made it on my own" in your post. Why use the word codependent? Most people have a support group to rely on whether they realize it or not.

>need another person to be a simpering lily that constantly banks on the validation and recognition of others
Codependency. Don't need others for validation.
I'll work in reverse,
>made it on your own
I'm not here to exchange stories. I know how it goes every time so here, I'll answer me for you: "user, just because bad shit happened to you, you can't be harsh on others."
Life gets so much worse, man. So much worse. But hey, I'm just a faggot who relied on support groups to get everywhere he went, right? Therapy and the whole nine yards, cushy fuckin ride.

It's irrelevant. We're not talking about me, we're talking about the OP of that post and how, beneath all his faggotry, he's still just about getting a girlfriend and having friends who ignore or embellish upon his flaws for his sake. Nowhere in there do I see a suggestion that he should be the change he wants to see, and be radiant and kind even if he's doing it alone.
I don't know what to tell you guys anymore, ahah. The guy is clearly coming from a position of personal vitriol. The whole thing is just a diatribe about everyone and everything else besides him. And even then, he's not being tactful or constructive. It's basically just blaming the Boogeyman.

I don't know, user. I had to get my shit made fun of by fucking teachers in school, and I wizened up. I got beat up, jumped, had virtually no dating experience in school (I held a girls hand once, fucking CHAD THORCOCK over here!!!!!!), spent most of my time on the internet and away from people and somehow I managed not to fucking write walls of text that can be TL;DR'd with, "You need to endure more and bitch less."

It's this idea that (You) guys, or even just that OP, have had it so fucking hard and the only evidence of having it hard is having an absolute 0/10 personality over it.

If we want to trade tales then we can, but A) you first and B) DON'T fucking tell me I can't judge others by it when that OP can off his.

Bump