How do I talk to women? Especially the ones I like

This is some real projection. You seem upset about something.

I see her every day but I can't think of what to say and I listen to what she says to those around me. I've said a few words to her, does that count?

>I can't think of what to say
How about a simple “hey how’s it going”? I know it sounds crazy and counterintuitive, but trust me it works every time when I want to start a conversation

I am upset. I’m a defeated man. Two of the women I cared for most in my life are whores. I spent years being a good guy and I got ditched. I’m giving OP the only advice I know how to give. I m defeated and I’m lonely and I’m miserable

Wear the mask

>They want the guy that they envision in their minds.

This guy gets it. Quintessentially based and redpilled

Thanks man. I have a good amount of experience with millennial costal women. I know their nature.

I’m not op but my threads keep getting ignored when I post here and the issue I’m having is similar to OPs:
I feel very tense around women. I think I understand where this anxiety is coming from. I am inexperienced with women, have had one gf and she was a super easy turbo thot. I cannot make eye contact or even look towards women. Feel like I’m in fight or flight when I do. I’m anxious because I’m insecure but I’m also insecure because I’m anxious and insecure, if that makes sense. I am so fucking close to getting on Prozac just to break the initial issues to get experience and learn to socialize with and date women. I can’t even get a fucking job like this because if a semi attractive female manager talks to me I have full blown panic attacks (this has happened at my last three part time jobs, causing me to quit out of embarrassment). I’m 23, and as I get older this gets worse. After 19 it’s not seen as cute to be shy with girls, it’s creepy and weird.

I don’t even have to be attracted to them which is the part that fucking gets me, I’m like this with my mom and sister too. Actually the only person I don’t feel totally nervous around is my father but that’s only because I live with him, even then I can’t make eye contact with him either. Jesus fuck I want to die

Also, I am beyond redpilled at this point. Definitely blackpilled now. Not sure if I will be able to reverse what has happened

Just to to them, mate. No trick, no posturing, no fake persona. Talk to them like a person.

Before you dope yourself, go to a doctor. Panic attacks are no joke.

I'm op and I feel the same but I've never even had a gf, but I'm 19 so I don't know if it's that bad yet.

Small steps are really important

Try and keep eye contract, listen to what they're saying to create conversation, smile, have an open posture this shows you're listening and confident

I’m already in therapy. Have had very minor improvement, what I’d consider significant only because it’s the first improvement at all in the last three years. He recommended prozac last time I saw him and that was after 2 months of working with him. But I haven’t told him any of what I said in that post. I’m too insecure to tell him that shit, or anyone except strangers on an Azerbaijani frog breeding forum, although I’d like to tell him. I also can’t make eye contact with him.

At 19 so long as you’re lean or take care of yourself you can pull it off as cute shyness with some girls still. Beyond that and it’s fucking over man.

Trust your therapist. Or search for a new one if this one doesn't work for you.

You've seen improvment because you are trying something. Don't give up, don't lie or hide stuff from them. Good luck man.

I know this might seem combative but I don't FEEL confident, I feel like a nervous wreck and I can't look people in the eyes, I always have to look away. I don't know what to do to fix this

Have you had an actual panic attack? This is not about being shy, we are talking about a condition here.

I don't know, I feel cold sweat and red faced and I bite my tongue and breathe deep? The cold sweat is when I know I'm really uncomfortable, I get it on my legs and back and it feels like someone just doused me in ice water

Why don't you feel confident?

I realized more to it dude. The reason I am so nervous with other people (men and women and family) is because I’m a 23 year old neet drop out and I know it’s pathetic. If I didn’t go absolute panic mode I would have quit jobs or dropped out(I had near weekly panic attacks in my last semester, couldn’t stop staring out the corner of my eyes at the girl next to me like some kind of creepy virgin rapist).

Fuck my goddamn ego I’m taking the pills

I can't diagnose you over the internet. Get a doctor. A therapist would be a good first step if you think you are having panic attacks.

> If I didn’t go absolute panic mode I would have quit jobs or dropped out

Didn't you quit three jobs already? Didn't you drop out of school too?

That's a hard question. I guess part of it is I just feel super low self esteem all the time. When I interact with people, I'm always thinking about how they see me, what judgements they are passing silently, and what they must think of me, and I can't help but feel like nobody cares about me.

You have told me the "how", not the "why".

Why do you have low self esteem? Why do you think people judge you? Why do you think no one cares?

Typo. Wouldn’t** have quit the jobs and dropped out. Idk if being depressed comes with anxiety or if my anxiety also made me depressed but part of the reason for those choices was depression, not just being humiliated

Oh, ok. I wanted to make sure.

About your problem, well, only an expert can say if you are depressed or what. Follow their instructions.

But all the pills in the world won't give you a job. That's up to you. So if they diagnose some pills, take them, and keep working. You've seen the improvement. You know it's not a lie.

If you cant talk to girls first, talk to guys. Not in a romantic way but normally.

Heres the trick, talk to women just as you talk to guys, just try to be a bit more fluent, eloquent and throw in some compliments from time to time.
Good things to compliment:
>Nails
>Hair
>Makeup(act as if you know what youre talking about, say she has good eye lipstick or some shit, if she likes you even just a bit she will start talking about how thats "eyeliner" and wont shut up about makeup for about 5mins)
>Dressing

Now you need to pass this mental block, which is the fact that you have a fear of getting rejected, saying something wrong or whatever.
>Thats for fucking betas
>YOU are not a beta
Think about her as any other girl, or if you have trouble with that, think about her as any other guy friend. If you can be friendly around her, and see her a lot, eventually magic will happen, however its up to you to actually initiate the relationship.
She wont tell you that she likes you, you need to be discreet and come straight up to her and tell her how you feel. If she actually likes you back, you wont be able to fuck this up, trust me i had horrible confessions and they still work, if you need proof i can write some down.

>TIPS!
Tell stories! If you can tell funny stories, there will never be awkward silence. Your goal however is to have a conversation, so keep the stories short and make sure she can continue a conversation after you end it, or that its a funny one so that she laughs.
Tell jokes! If she has the same sense of humor that you have, you hit a jackpot. You can always tell some jokes or in worse case scenario, show her some good memes and then continue a discussion from there.
Dont forget, you arent aiming to get in her pants(yet). Act as if you are a friend to her, but show some affection(touching, flirty comments) so that you dont come off as a surprise when you confess.

Can you look people in the eyes while conversing with them without looking away? Thats the first step to confidence. If you cant i suggest practising on ASMR videos, at one point i couldnt look at qts in the eyes at all and was a whiny little bitch, but by first looking the asmr girls straight into eyes, and then later IRL qts, i grew more confident

>talk to women just as you talk to guys, just try to be a bit more fluent, eloquent and throw in some compliments from time to time.

You contradict yourself and fuel OP's fears. You don't need to do better to talk to women. You just need to do it.

Either they like you, or they don't. There's nothing to it. But trying to be more fluent or eloquent is just telling yourself to be fake.

I guess because I'm not a good person. I'm no douche bag that actively tries to piss people off, but I don't remember ever caring deeply for someone else. I have no talents and no work ethic or motivation, I kind of just exist. I'm really terrible and toxic and honestly most women should probably avoid me

You MUSTN'T habe a gf before you have learned how to care about yourself and how to love yourself. Life is rarely a movie. People have shit on their own and will avoid anything having a shit aura.

OOOOH Girls just wanna have FUUU-UUUUUN.

That's why many (not all) of thfm fall for jerks: they slways do different shit and learned early in life how to get out of trouble. They know how to trick people snd play charming and innocent. They reveal their true faces afterwards and then the girl gets pain in her ass either leaving him or still being in love when they habe daddy issues.

You don't.
Unless you're a Chad. But if you are on this board, asking this question, you aren't.
So, unless you wanna get a harassment lawsuit, don't talk to females, ever.

Crap I can't even do asmr girls. I usually listen to goodnightmoon asmr before going to bed on my phone but something just feels so wrong about looking her in the face I drop the brightness down to low and set the phone face down on my bedside table while listening to her

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>I guess because I'm not a good person.

What are you doing to improve?

A whole lot of nothing. I'm not happy with myself at all but I lazy and disheartened whenever I think of starting something like lifting or learning an instrument or learning to draw and all I can think about is how I'll never really be better than average

>just be yourself. Women like that shit.

Nah, no meme response from some insecureincel but you might be yourself if you have a chad face, falling out hair, a nice body or being 150cm in size, but many people have a lack of character. Being yourself is only good if you're happy with yourself and OP isn't sinxe he lacks coinfidence. Be yourself but be the best version of yourself. Be a stoicist: Accept the "flaws" you cant change and wear them like an armor and change the things you can change if necessary since "Just be yourself" and "I love the taste of plaque on my unbrushed teeth" might not hand in hand that well regarding dating.

Lol. Same with me. But for me it’s just that I don’t want to look at some dumb whore who is whispering to make a living. Just think about all the tinder cock those asmr bitches suck.

>whenever I think of starting something like lifting or learning an instrument or learning to draw

How does any of that make you a good person?

By that i meant, dont say "ayyo nigga where da whyte women at" but something more normal.
Didnt mean to be fake or try hard to talk to them, just to make sure you dont say anything you wouldnt want to say next to your mom, at least before you know her a bit. But compliments are mandatory, or else she wont view you much more than a friend
(Also theres a bit of a difference between saying fluent in my language and english, idk how to translate it differently)
You gotta start training mate, i was in the same situation. But im a bit more of a drunk so i solved it in the most retarded fashion possible
>I went to the city square and started handing out chocolates to all the cute girls i could find
>tried to look them in the eyes and smile when i gave them the chocolate
>When asked why i said because they are pretty

Ive never been shy again in my life after that, and yes it was very cringe and it hurt my heart every time i gave a qt a piece of chocolate and told her that its her reward "for being pretty"
k i l l m e p l z

>Being yourself is only good if you're happy with yourself and OP isn't sinxe he lacks coinfidence.

You are telling OP he needs to be better. That's the kind of thing that takes away someone's confidence. You don't know OP. Can tyou say he is not good enough to date?

Holy shit you’re an absolute madman. I’m the other shy poster and I’m considering trying your chocolate method. I always enjoy to go all out when I can

K. You're a self sabotaging faggot. One of the biggest Strongman ever, Savickas, started with weightlifting with 24 and broke several lithuanian records some years later. Was he thinking "man i'll never suceed when I just started with 24"?

And wtf is this shit? Playing an instrument is about passion and fun and not about getting rich or shit. Im almost 22, work with fl studio since i'm 15 and my music still sounds like dogshit but i still come back, i still make music, i still upload demo tracks to a gay soundcloud nobody's listening to because i enjoy music and want to share my creativity and love the feeling of knowing that I've created something that at least moves me no matter if nothing else around me moves. I taught this shit myself and I'm most likely my only fan since my music's abstract and has bad quality but in the and of the day I can say "I made something and i'm grateful that i can". and when there's something many humans do avoid its some undying no life faggots with no genuine interests and passions that don't see their posdibilities in the 1st world.

Screw getting a gf, get a hobby. If you want zo start making music on your pc download fl studio 10 from Mega idk.

I think I would be a happier and better person if I had a productive hobby, rather than endlessly browsing the internet. Productive people seem happy, or at least content, and I look up to them and they seem like good people

>Productive people seem happy, or at least content, and I look up to them and they seem like good people

Good people are good, not productive. If you want to be good, learning to draw is not the solution.

Please dont remind me...
I mean now that i think about it, it was quite a fun experience, and i learned a lot from it such as:
>Some women are just bitches and will ignore you or call you a creep
>Some are really nice
>Some are as shy as you are, and this seems to be the most common type

The chocolate that was left was given to the girls and little children that were in the same bus as me when i was going home, it actually became quite natural at that point and i felt as if i could talk to anyone.
Tbh after making all those girls smile that day, i dont think i ever again thought that i should be scared of looking at them, you might miss those qts smiles you know?

1st i said "if it's necessary" and 2nd he's to much of a hobby victim to get a hobby assuming he's . He builds/destroys his own coinfidencd by comparing himself to others.

You're not happy online since every experience in here is useless, easily earned and contains an overflow of useless data.

> Heres the trick, talk to women just as you talk to guys, just try to be a bit more fluent, eloquent and throw in some compliments from time to time.

Where does it say "if it's necessary"? Dude, come on.

> He builds/destroys his own coinfidencd by comparing himself to others.

And you are telling him to be better. Don't you get it? Druggies get girlfriends. It's not a test you need to pass, all you need to do is try. Go out, meet people, and try. That's all there's to it.