Is it possible to stop being a nice guy without coming off as rude or aggressive?

There is nothing wrong with being a nice person. What you're missing is confidence. Not cockiness. Confidence.

Know your worth and don't forsake your own needs trying to be nice. Women don't like assholes because they are assholes, they like them because they are confident in themselves and don't pander to others just to be "nice."

Make a v with my fingers and put my tongue through it.
Like a goddamned gentleman.

I know what he meant, that's the point.

If he is actually nice, there's no problem. If he is a "Nice Guy" (which are not nice people, it's a sarcastic name) then becoming a better person won't make him rude. Quite the opposite, "Nice Guys" are pretty rude.

Obviously i just stare at her the whole ride and never say a word

I'd stare back. Maybe you're challenging me to a staring contest. And a man who challenges his woman to outdo him is a major turn-on.
Based and redpilled.

Guys can i have a comment on pic related. After it happening this consistently i just dont understand where i am going wrong..

Attached: SmartSelect_20190313-000352_Mimi.jpg (943x202, 57K)

We need more context, that's not enough.

I asked girls out after talking to them for a while. They said pic related..

Here's a tip:

Calling someone nice is like saying "There's nothing else to say to this person but I have to say something."

When people are genuine they'll call you "sweet" and talk to you more.

You're going to go from awkward quiet guy to awkward asshole and nothing else will change. Be a genuinely sweet person just don't be a pushover.

>I asked girls out after talking to them for a while.

How was the conversation? Were you the kind of guy that think "talking to a girl" is the same as "flirting"? Were you cringy? Creepy?

How did you know these girls? Were you asking out random girls on facebook? Using Tinder?

Judging by the two posts I've seen so far, I can say you are a lazy asshole. You first post uses the words of someone else, and the second is just repeating the first. Talking to you is like talking to a brick wall, even asking you directly for more information doesn't work. Why would a girl want to date such a lazy, closed person?

It means people like you on a friendly level and aren't romantically attracted to you. There is nothing you can do about that. Most people you meet aren't romantically compatible nor have the right chemistry anyway.

Chill dude, the question asked to me was simply " more context" which also is ambigious. My first post doesnt use someone elses words, it is the fucking greentext i posted on here.

I dont ask random girls out, definitely not before actually meeting and knowing them. All those i went out to meet (just to know each other) and i had taken a liking to them, so i invited them out for a date.

Two i met via Jow Forums, another through a project we worked together in summer. The conversations can not have been that bad, because one i spent 4 hours with, the other 6 hours irl. They could have bailed at any time.

I guess i might have been cringey or creepy, but i doubt i would be a objective judge of that.

ever since I became a dick people like me a lot more

If two went out with you, they probably were interested, they just didn't like you. Which is fine, sometimes it happens. better luck next time.

It's just femalespeak for "Leave me alone". These words mean nothing by itself.

care to elaborate?
What did you do to achieve that transformation?

Shame, i dont ask out that many people. I would like to know a woman first. So yeah..

I mean it is not like they stopped talking to me. The main reason i asked them out was me liking their character and looks. And it is not like i am a beta provider to them since well, i only talk to them online at this point.

Don't buy snake oil. Some people like to belive they are a victim because they are nice, but those people are not nice. They are cowards. That's not the same.

Being rude won't help you. Being a person instead of a doormat is what you need.

>Shame, i dont ask out that many people.

Why not?

Like i said, i would like to know the person first. I dont want to ask somebody out just because of their looks i guess?

Which doesnt help me out that much, considering i am not really attractive, so maybe it is the wrong approach..

>i would like to know the person first

So you need to meet more people more often, hang out with them, and you can ask more people out. Pretty simple.

Yeap, but it takes time to change 20 sth year worth of introversion and solitary lifestyle. I am working on it slowly, just might need help a bit.

It is not like i am not fine with dudes or people i am not attracted to, but i seem to drop spaghetti a bit with wome i like..

No one said it would be easy. Do you want to try or do you want to whine?

I am trying it dude, but there is obviously room for improvement so i am here asking for advice.

That's the advice, ask more people out. Some girls already went out with tyou, so you are not horrible-looking.

Simple, learn to say "no" when something bother you, stop compromising to please people:

Someone asks for your help ?
>You have the time and want to help
yes
>You have something else to do or don't like this person
No, I have something else to do

Someone wants to borrow something ?
>You're not using it and don't plan on using it in the near future
Yes
>You need it/plan to use it/can't afford to not have if in case you unexpectedly need it
No, I need it

No, people usually put headphones on because they want to listen to music on their way, not everyone is an asocial that take preventing measures especially to avoid people

in order to stop being a "nice guy" you need to understand what that is.

Every guy should be friendly with girls.
But a "Nice Guy" lacks respect for himself. he lacks respect for his time, his talent, his selfworth, his looks, his charm, his uniquness.

If you start valuing all those things in yourself, not only will you seem and become more confident, but girls will natually see it too.

If they see that you have respect for all those things and value them, they will start respecting and valuing them too.

You won't come off as rude or aggressive, you will come off as confident and in control. A nice guy who knows what he wants and his worth.

Thanks i guess?

I aint the best looking either, hell i asked even soc for rates and they gave me 4 or 5. So yeah i know it wont happen via tinder and i need be more proactive in real life..

Wearing headphones means they’re occupied with something else and don’t want to talk to random strangers if they don’t have to. Don’t be rude and interrupt people like that.

I like these posts

They're not "occupied", they're just waiting to arrive to their destination with "background" music they've already listen 200+ time, they're probably as bored as any other person it this bus/train so human interaction won't bother them (at least from my experience), just be confident and smile.
Imagine you're in the bus and somebody from the opposite sex wants to start a conversation with you, would you take it bad because she/he interrupted that song you can listen to anytime you want ?

Why do you want to stop being a nice guy?

love?
enemy you hate?
don't want to be taken advantage of?

youtube.com/watch?v=OuU18ZyOXvs

Follow this channel

Yes. It's pretty much not being a pushover, as well as not being friendly in the hopes that you'll get something in return

>don't want to be taken advantage of?
this
also want to make girls stop seeing me like an asexual harmless teddy bear

then you're probably better with this advice

>Autism Speaks

is correct. If someone has headphones on, don't bother them. If they drop something, pick it up, show it to them, hand it back and smile then walk away. If they want to talk to you, they'll engage with more than a "thanks".

To summarize:
>Get "Thanks"
Walk away, they're not interested.
>Get "Oh my god thank you! I would have been so screwed if I lost this. I'm going to the show later and they wouldn't let me in without my ID...."
You now have an in, and an established conversation topic, with someone that has demonstrated that they're interested in having a conversation. Ask about the band. Ask about music. Ask how often they go to shows. Share what shows you like going to.

I can't believe this stuff has to be explained in this much detail...

you can be nice without being a pussy. girls actually like that

this is bad for people that actually are autisitic

pretty sure the guy you are responding too actually does have their headphones on for lack of human interaction and are too shy to strike up a conversation themselves. I wonder why Jow Forums don't believe shy people exists or that they don't deserve to be talked to.

except the who point of the thread is him questioning "how"
you have to stop begging the question

I was a -very- shy person growing up. I am very outgoing now. I have insight into both lifestyles. That changes nothing in regards to how you should interact with people, especially women, who have headphones in while walking on the street / on public transit. If you're a shy person:
>1. Get over yourself. You cannot expect people to strike up conversations with you if you're not willing to do the same.
>2. If you DO want people to strike up conversations with you, don't wear headphones that prevent you from hearing what people are saying. They EXPLICITLY communicate "I'm listening to something that's not you" to everyone around them.

but the whole point is that you are automatically assuming that everyone is busy/occupied so how can you strike up a conversation if that's the case?

>everyone [WHO ARE ACTIVELY WEARING AN APPARATUS THAT PREVENT CONVERSATION] is busy/occupied

Fixed that for you.

Are you being deliberately dumb? At this point it's just reading comprehension man. This thread is about how to not be a "Nice Guy TM" and not understanding when people are uninterested in being approached is an extremely common fault that Nice Guys TM have. Are you OP? Do you actually want a comprehensive list of major Nice Guy TM problems and how to avoid them?

neither OP nor just a person that keeps getting told "you can ask out people wherever" when I ask a question upon where do I find people that are actually interested in romance on Jow Forums but then is told "no you can't ask a person out there" 10 seconds afterwards. Or how people should pursue romance without thinking of romance like (or maybe that person was saying that one shouldn't pursue romance at all)

I get it "woman wearing headphones = leave her alone" but where are the places you do pursue romance if you want it?

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What I usually do is pretending I'm hearing what they're listening to and start the conversation on this:
-Hey, are you listening to *insert any song you want*, I love that band
-No, it's *song she's listening to* from *band that made that song*
Now you have a conversation topic, now you can either say you know this band and speak about the songs you like, if you saw them in concert etc, or you can say that you don't know them and she will develop and tell you what genre of music they do and recommend you a few songs she likes.

That's not autism, that's human interaction you should try it sometimes. If you're waiting for her to drop something AND waiting for her to make the first step in the conversation to know if she'd like to speak to you, you will never speak with anybody, no wonder why you're still a virgin

All adult conversation comes out of shared experiences.

Example:
>getting on an airplane to take a vacation in mexico
>Someone sitting next to you on the plane
What do you have in common? You're both going to mexico. So question like: "So, been to mexico before?" are completely appropriate. If you get a "yup" and nothing else, they're not interested. If you get "oh yeah, we went last summer! Usually we vacation in Europe though" That person obviously wants to talk more. Ask about Europe. Say it's your first time in mexico and ask for suggestions on what to do.

Earphones are one of THE most clear signs of "do not talk to me". If you're on that airplane and they're just fussing with the safety pamphlet or something, that's a sign of boredom. They're not really "doing" anything.

It's also important that on an airplane you're going to be sitting next to each other for a while. It's an understood contract that social interaction might happen (unless they throw the headphones in). If they're reading a book you've read, feel free to points out "oh I loved that one!" or something.

location matters a lot. Grocery store? Bus? GYM?? Fuck off. These are places people go to for an explicit purpose and then leave. They're in and out with a goal to accomplish.

If you garden at a public plot though? That's an activity. That's a shared experience. Talk all you want to the person that tends the plot next to yours (or any person with a plot! Just find something rational to break the ice with. Like the fact that they are growing something you want to grow and you'd like to know how they did it).

Bottom line is, if you're some kid with no interests and no hobbies, meeting people IS really challenging. You have to actually make yourself into the type of person others would WANT to talk to by being interesting and having a lot of hobbies that they might be able to relate to.

yet the OPs of the "ask opposite gender" threads keep posting

>Where do I meet people for ?
>Anywhere outside. Or online. Above all, leave your comfort zone.

why are they so retarded?

>Autism defense force

Look, this thread is about how to stop being an autistic Nice Guy and you're either willing to learn or you're not (likely contingent on high deep on the spectrum you are). Earphones, especially on women, are a sign to not engage. That is absolutely a fact.

There are absolutely ways to engage people, but much of it is case-by-case context. A generally safe heuristic is:
>They're doing something recreational for fun
Say, playing on an arcade cabinet. Aforementioned gardening. flying a drone around a park.
This is a person you can engage and ask about their hobby
>They're doing something that's not fun, something they _need_ to do.
This stuff is like: grocery shopping, working out, work commute on public transit.
These people are much more likely to not be receptive. No girl wants to talk to you at the gym. She's hot and sweaty and feels like shit and just wants to be done. Of course there is the SMALL percentage of people that just gym all the time for fun, but that's what a heuristic is: a generally safe assumption that is right most of the time, and the social heuristic for gym goers is "fuck off, I hate this and I just want to not feel terrible for eating ice cream".

There is nothing wrong with
>Anywhere outside. Or online. Above all, leave your comfort zone.
You're misreading that. You MIGHT run into someone that wants to engage you anywhere. But that doesn't mean EVERYONE EVERYWHERE is going to be receptive.
Example:
There are three girls in the park. One is playing with her dog, one has earphones in and is reading a book, and the final one is playing with a hackysack with a stereo playing music.

Earphones is not receptive. Do not even attempt to engage. She has communicated that she's not interested in those around her.

The other two are possibilities.

Approach the sacking girl with the music and ask if she's listening to "band X". She says "yeah" and then turns away.

Alright, you tried to engage and she wasn't interested. Move on.

You tell the girl with the dog that her pet is adorable and ask the breed. She launches into how they got him, and they're not sure what he is, but she's always had dogs and loves them and he's great with people and.... whatever. You're in. She's talking. You made the first move, and was receptive, and a conversation is a go from that point on.

That person you quoted was saying location doesn't matter, but if you're not finding people on a normal basis, then you need to change the things you do.

just about pursuing what you like

if you pursue what you like and are still nice when doing so then it's all good
sometimes if the girl is just not into you it won't matter if you are nice or not, but relationships are all about both parties having fun so if you aren't having fun in you pursuits she's not going to either, just a bunch of awkwardness followed by a break up

nice guys are pathetic in their own right, don't try to use this prescriptive definition that makes them this inhuman concept that is the antithesis to sympathy.
real people have more complex though processes than that.

But location DOES matter

you said
>Grocery store? Bus? GYM?? Fuck off.
I always assumed that was the case but when telling people they say "quit thinking about it so much" but your posts proves they are completely wrong. There are specific places to pursue romance.

Not really. Again, it's about Heuristics. The Grocery Store CAN be a place you meet someone. You reach for the same item at the same time... "oh whoopse, last one! It's ok you can have it", and then RomCom shit ensues. That's not literally impossible, it's just extremely unlikely.

You're better off NOT actively pursuing people at a grocery store because MOST people aren't interested. That doesn't mean it CAN'T happen.

If you want to actively put yourself in scenarios where you're LIKELY to meet people that are receptive, recreation locations are just a much smarter choice. Parks, arcades, book stores, stuff like that.

"Quit thinking so much about it" is in regards to the fire category of location. If it happens at a gym, great. But do not go in expecting to meet people. Just treat everyone the same, be polite, and if you do find yourself clicking then fine.

But thing is you keep telling people to not look at anyone as a romantic interests, be nice to everyone, and always be self-conscious about "does she really want to be around me" 24/7 and then complaining about how people like OP is being a doormat to others

I think these "don't talk to people unless you are 100% sure they are receptive" rules are probably the reason we have so many "nice guys" nowadays

Noone said OP was being a doormat. The Nice Guy TM problem is inappropriate intrusion into people's space, added with an unjustified assumption of entitlement.

"Just be chill to everyone and read the room in regards to who wants to be actively engaged with" is literally the entirety of the answer.

that's the phrase you puts onto OP due to the definition of "nice guy" that was made up as a backlash to the backlash of nice guys

when taking 10 seconds to question OP what he meant was not so much "complaining about personal space" so much as "afraid of not being seen as a romantic option at all even when going out" and probably left the thread when he posted this when he gotten advice from people that wasn't trying to strawman him.

I attacked you because I think your advice is pretty antithetical to his problems saying that the answer is being a token nice guy in a classical sense (that is doing everything to not offend anyone and not put your own self-interests as anything important).

Let me guess, you're subscribed to quite a few pua youtube channels

>left the thread when he posted this when he gotten advice from people that wasn't trying to strawman him.*

forgot to put the post

Fair, actually.

My bad. That's a much rarer problem and I missed that post. Not being a doormat is way simpler. Just... learn how to tell people no. That's literally it. Stand up for yourself.

the fuck is a pua?

>She is doing nothing, she's only waiting for the bus
She's busy, don't speak to her
>She's concentrating on playing a video game or flying a drone
Now you can speak to her

Of course gym or groceries are retarded places to engage conversation but not public transit, I do it all the time and it turns out fine probably because the "social heuristic" for public transit goers is "I'm bored", I'm speaking from experience not from theory

I tell people no all the goddamn time and I've got nothing to show for it.

the argument started because you attacked a person giving advice that may have been a bit faux pas but at least would give OP some confidence to open up to people and think they are also people that want interaction from others and not think they are some puzzles that you have to work out in some way.

in that way 's advice just seems more useful to OP than yours

Now see I disagree with you. is never going to be good advice because he's setting OP up for failure. Trying to engage someone that has headphones in is going to not work 99 times out of 100. So if you're talking about confidence building, OP is fucked if he follows that advice.

All of my advice was spot on accurate in general, but you're right in that I misunderstood the OP's specific problem. If his specific problem is that people ask him to do things he doesn't want to do, but he doesn't have the confidence to say no, then literally standing up for himself will solve that problem. People won't treat him like a doormat if they can't get anything out of him that he doesn't want to give.

How would you reply to a ghost? Anything i can think of is either being an asshole or being a needy bitch.

>How would you reply to a ghost?
Fucking run away man, ain't no one got cause for that.

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it's not setting OP for failure since as you said who knows if that's going to be the case

user was speaking probably as someone that probably usually wears headphones not as a gesture of "fuck off" but as a gesture of "it's a long ass travel, I have nothing better to do, and with headphones I don't have to even use my hands" are you certain that there are no women that have the same thoughts or that those who do are of a minuscule minority.

that's why incels don't think women are people these days. We keep portraying them as people that can't get bored, can't get shy, can't also be pursuing romance but don't know what places to find it etc.

I must be really lucky I guess, because almost everytime I've had at least a good conversation, remember, when you're addressing to someone, you're not trying to get in their pants, you just try to speak with them (at least in the beginning)

>it's not setting OP for failure since as you said who knows if that's going to be the case
Again a fundamental misunderstanding here. I'm 33 years old. I have dozens of female friends and have been in many relationships. Every. Single. One. of these women in my life use headphones as a way to not have to interact with people they don't want to interact with when they're commuting or at the gym or whatever.

Just because you have a 1% chance of success (and a 99% chance of failure) does not mean you're "not being set up to fail".

Why waste your time anyway? There are many approaches, that I detailed earlier, that are far more likely to be successful. At this point, again, you (or OP) are either going to learn from others, or you're going to stubbornly ignore the advice of those that have overcome those very same problems.

It could be that you're simply not autistic, and are subconsciously picking up on other cues that someone isn't trying to isolate themselves. There are a bunch of complimentary information you can garner, from body language to context information (walking down a sidewalk vs sitting at a bench. Bench is far more likely to just be chillin' while walking down a sidewalk could be "just get me from A to B without any creeper bothering me").

Point is "Just talk to them even if they're wearing ear plugs!" is a stupid piece of general advice that won't work for people that struggle at grasping when and how to interact with strangers.

depends
What happened before you were ghosted?

We flirted at a bar.
I answered her ig story and said "Oh, you have both a dog and a cat?"

That's not a ghost. Social media doesn't mean shit. She'll either respond or she won't. If she doesn't, move on.

If she ghosts you, she's not interested. There's nothing else to do but to move on

You're one to talk. They were quizzing OP, man.

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>be nice
>women think I want to fuck them for better or worse

IDK man, some women find any way to demonize men as perverse, creepy idiots. I'm not the least bit affected by terms like Nice Guy or Incel because I think women who "shame" men for being virgins or having difficult dating lives are pretty terrible people.

I try my hardest to look away from her, and if she looks at me, try even harder to suppress the reflex to smile.

[spoiler]I fucking HATE THIS REFLEX. How the FUCK do I make it go away permanently? Smiling makes me look even worse!!

>not public transit
Either eurofag or commie detected

Just shut the fuck up and be nice. I've found that talking too much even when you are doing something noble completely ruins your image.

You don't need to tell people that you're nice. They'll figure it out eventually.

Lol, my dude friends told me i was too nice and i shouldnt be that nice.

If women don't approach you, you are doing something wrong. Stop worrying about girls and they will eventually come to you like a cat.

Lol, i thought it was just me when anons suggested that to me when trying to pet street cats and i likened it to "how to get a gf"..