Why do people claim that all success is only due to hard work and how do you deal with this hypocrisy?
For example, say you have an athlete who works hard to be good in what he's doing. If you took a random person and had them spend the same amount of time working out and training, would they get the same results success? Absolutely not. This applies to pretty much everything, people always try to focus only on their individual merit ignoring the many ways in which they were just lucky and/or had a good starting position. And they also tend to tell all the people who have less success than them, that it's just because they are lazy and/or they didn't work hard enough.
How do you deal with this on a day to day basis? Do you just call everyone out on their bullshit? For example then someone claims they have success with women because of their charisma, do you call them out on being tall and attractive? Not to say they don't have charisma,but it's not what separates the successful from the unsuccessful.
To put it in a different way. Hard work is necessary, but not sufficient. Therefore not the most important and not the decisive factor.
I focus on my strengths based on what I was born with and what skills I have and take pride in them while avoiding my weaknesses being exploited. It doesn't matter bro. Just live your life.
Isaiah Perry
Too long didn’t read
Nathan Jackson
The thing is, you assume hard work only requires the physical steps. But sometimes you have to manipulate people, strengthen your resolve or your appearence, believe firmly and strong, but most of all with a realistic aproach in something in order to get it done. And not give up.
Still, When you desire only the result, you start taking shortcuts...and when you start taking shortcuts, you might lose sight of the the importance of the journey that alters you mentally for the long-term. Eventually you'll lose your motivation too.
Nicholas Garcia
Well it does matter. You are judged on a daily basis by others.
That woman you try to approach who will end up going out with the guy with his own place, ignoring that unlike him you didn't inherit it. Which would be fine by itself, if you also weren't considered lazy and incapable for this circumstance out of your control.
Please do not get hung up on the example too much, but you do get my point?
>And not give up. And you do realize that even the not giving up is heavily influenced by your starting position?
Hell just look over at Jow Forums. You have guys there who have been turned down hundreds, thousands of times. They're not giving up. What does that get them?
The rest of your post I really do not get.
Ryder Walker
Yeah sure I get it life isn't fair because people start at different points in the race. You can either sit there and whine about it or you can acknowledge the disadvantage and make the most of your effort and time to further yourself. Go to a country where USD are enough to cover a paycheck and you feel less disadvantaged. If you're the Chad winner, then be a philanthropist.
Asher Green
You are missing the point. I know this. All of this.
What I was asking is how do you deal with people IRL who function according to this myth? Because I have the tendency to call them out on their bullshit, which usually gets them pretty mad.
All the cute girls growing up in upper middle class families who talk about all their hard work and good attitudes. You no shit you got good attitude living in a god damn bubble.
Henry Hill
Its a way to deal with the feelings of guilt over them being successful and most people not.
tl;dr is: >waaaah life is unfair gimme everything for free, now give me validation for my edgy opinions and tell me how smart I am
Dylan Johnson
Life is fucked up, but if we want to be happy, we must try. Trying and accomplishing at least a few things out of a dozen will make you proud nontheless. You might still not be where you want to be afterwards, but you'll be someone that has perseverance, a trait that has alot of worth on its own. Once that ball starts rolling, good things will come more often.
That's why i said the end result doesn't matter. The journey that shapes you does.
Asher Murphy
The end result does matter though.
The end result could be the well-paying job you don't get. The girl who ends up marrying someone else. The cancer that eats you alive.
What you are saying makes sense, of course it does! But not in the practical sense.
Zachary Nguyen
>To put it in a different way. Hard work is necessary, but not sufficient.
You also have to be smart about it. You work hard for something that is attainable and you will be successful. Like you said not everyone can just train and become an athlete but those people could become successful in other venues.
Charles Anderson
Once again. Missing the point.
When an athlete starts ripping into you that you are not an as good as him just because you didn't work hard enough? It happens quite a lot. Not this specific scenario, obviously. But in general.
What do you do then? Accept that even though it's not true? Or start arguing and be seen like a sore loser envious loser who is hated by everyone?
Colton Richardson
If you're at the bottom of a trashcan as opposed to say, near the top of it, spending hard work to climb higher is still better than not bothering at all in the first place.
Sure, you probably won't reach the top but it's gonna stink a fuck-ton less, unless you enjoy eating shit and complaining like it'll change anything.
Life isn't fair, but we play the cards we're dealt.
Colton Perez
Why does everyone keep answering a question I did not ask?
I'm not arguing whether the world is unfair or not. Or whether it's better to work hard than do nothing at all.
What I am asking is how to deal with situations in which people try to pretend they got their success ONLY through their hard work. Ignoring the good starting position (for example) that they've had.
Jayden Collins
This started as a philosophical discussion but quickly turned into a "baww women don't like me because I wasn't born tall"
of course, because on 4 chan, everything is a thinly vieled disguise for their rants and not any real advice threads or discussion threads
Joseph Walker
God you're embittered. Work on that user, the road you're on now won't make you better in anyway.
Isaac Howard
As it so happens, what you mentioned is a good example.
But it's not the only thing, obviously.
You either didn't read the thread or are retarded. Possibly both.
Jose Bell
I'm embittered but I'm right.
Anthony Brown
>projecting so hard I could screen endgame on it
Andrew Reyes
You're not though. Luck is a thing, but hard work can also make people hugely successful, and has. You're acting like it's all completely down to factors beyond your control, and it isn't. That's a literal coping mechanism
Oliver Kelly
Yeah, keep using the green text. That will make you seem less retarded.
If you missed the point this hard, you might as well not respond.
Xavier Cruz
No.
Hard work is important. And in many cases necessary. But you can choose to work hard or not. Which is what makes hard work less of a limiting factor. Since you have control over it.
But in the end, if you have two people. Both working hard but one starting with a shitty position and the other with a good position, then yeah. The one with the good position will have better results. And he will attribute these better results JUST to his hard work. Ignoring the good starting position.
That's what my question was about. How to respond to such people IRL.
Mason Lewis
>how to deal with situations in which people try to pretend they got their success ONLY through their hard work
They're either unaware or they want to feel like they're above other people. Either way it's a waste of time to think or be jealous of other peoples' success. You can say 'that's nice.' or something else equally snippy if you want to punish them for daring to try anything in life or you can focus on your own success.
Get your room in order before you start criticising others.
Connor Green
The fuck do you mean get my room in order.
Also, what you said is a non-advice really.
Owen Gomez
You asked a non-question. You want to stop them feeling successful? You want to hurt them/shut them down and make them realise they're just 'lucky'?
The fuck do you mean 'deal with' people pretending they got their success ONLY through hard work?
You sound like someone who's got an issue or 3, and the advice is to deal with yourself first and not waste your time thinking about other people's success, it clearly hasn't done you any favours.
Michael Davis
Stop caring? so what if they falsely believe they deserve more credit than they get? It's not your problem. Dont waste energy being frustrated with people being wrong. its so absolutely pointless. practially; respond minimally or not at all. its not worth explaining that other people are wrong unless you get concrete benefit from it.
Chase Nelson
>You want to hurt them/shut them down and make them realise they're just 'lucky'? Yes. I want them to stop pretending they are better than me JUST because they worked hard. I want them to acknowledge just how lucky they got. And when I meet someone who is better than me despite starting off worse? Kudos to them, but they're nothing but an anomaly.
It is my problem. The problem isn't just their false belief. The problem is that they are in fact more successful. And everything that comes with it.
Daniel Lewis
>absolutely SEETHING
Tough shit, there's nothing you can say that will suddenly pop a person's inflated ego. If they're unaware of their unearned advantages the most you'll get is some more consideration and humility, in which case they weren't a bad person in the first place, and it was still a gigantic waste of your time.
Either way, you going >REEEEEE isn't improving anything, least of all yourself.
Alexander Hernandez
They usually are aware though. But they try to play them down and focus on their hard work. To protect their egos I guess?
Nathan Rivera
Call them out on their bullshit, if bullshit is what they bring to you. Be confident about it, but a little playfull as well, like you just don't care.
Landon Peterson
well I mean there is luck but you REALLY don't want to rely on that. Most celebrities were just lucky morons but not everyone can be a celebrity. They are like the 1%.
If you put zero effort into life you're far more likely to end up on the 10% or whatever homless list. They're all people who didnt work hard or lost their minds to drugs.
Work hard and stay in the middle. Luck can make you a millionaire but it can also take everything away or kill you with a much higher rate.
Ayden Fisher
Because hard work will give you some kind of success. You might not be Enstein but you can be a decent engineer which is a lot better than just working at mcdonalds for the rest of your life and half assing even that job
>protect their egos >normal, well-adjusted people I doubt it, more likely because they realise that hard work's the only thing that makes the difference in the end, no matter what advantages you start off with. I've had friends come from shitty family backgrounds and education earn a level of success I'd never imagined, because they were willing to put in more work and set their goals higher.
I think everyone else in the thread realises you're not going to listen, but getting angry about this fact of life isn't hurting anyone but you.
Move on.
Jaxon Ross
>I doubt it, more likely because they realise that hard work's the only thing that makes the difference in the end, no matter what advantages you start off with. That is simply not true though. Is it?
Carter King
Maybe for some, not for others; no one on the planet thinks the exact same way.
Project your assumptions onto the world if you want, and tear down people for this perceived 'injustice', but it won't make you happy in the end.
Everyone else warned you.
Noah Jenkins
So what separates them? The ones for which this is true and the ones for which it's not?
Benjamin Jones
Get to know them and find out, people are rarely simple.
Maybe some of them think they're the hottest shit and will do anything to protect that image because they had a shitty upbringing. Maybe some just want to do better and are happy to acknowledge they've got advantages and realise they don't have to be assholes. There could be a million reasons why people pretend, and even more for people who decide to be honest.
Xavier Kelly
Well, you do have a point there.
But this is not just something that concerns individuals. The hard work myth is prevalent in society. Fatalism is condemned and frowned upon (especially in the west). This is not just a matter of a couple assholes. Everyone promotes this narrative.
Joshua Lee
I understand Fatalism; why play the game if it's rigged and the odds are already stacked?
Problem with the concept is, life isn't a simple game where you win or lose; those parameters are only set by you.
Getting angry how other people are playing is like taking your eyes off the road while you're driving. Sure, maybe their car is nicer and driving way faster, but you'll fuck up yourself and others if you're not paying attention and crash.
Focus on a goal you can manage and work towards it, anything else is irrelevant.
Brayden Long
Well. That's bullshit as far as I am concerned.
But thanks anyways.
Camden Powell
Suit yourself, if you want to make yourself miserable on purpose you're free to do so, just don't say nobody warned you.
Michael Walker
>How do you deal with this on a day to day basis? >Do you just call everyone out on their bullshit? First off, you're right. Richfag here, can validate your assertion.
But you need to learn how to disagree with people maturely. I think that's what you're really asking here. You know something that many other people don't know. That means you have a chance to help them; so if you view it as "calling them out" you can never help them. Instead, try to show them your thoughts and feel OK if they don't understand. You did your part and you were a good friend for trying your best, but you can't win them all. But one day, you're going to bump into a kid.... you will never expect this.. you'll never see it coming, it will just happen... but you'll bump into a kid one day who'll tell you that "Hard work makes wealth". And then you'll disagree calmly, maturely, and with the spirit of a loving leader. You will blow the mind of this kid. His whole world could change from your very words. He might grow up with a new spirit, and end up becoming rich and it was all because of you.
So while most people have self-interest in keeping their heads in the sand (really, who wants to be told that all their hard work was perhaps in vain). The few people that actually receive your thoughts is what makes it all worthwhile.
So don't get yourself too fussed over idiots. There's no cure for stupidity, and even if you did win an argument, they'll probably go back to their old ways very soon. Just be good to everyone, regardless, because you never know when that person comes along and really needs to hear what you have to say. You can never predict it. Just be good to everyone.
Christian Anderson
>Luck is a thing Richfag here, it's not. There is absolutely no such thing as luck.
None of my rich friends think so either.
Luck is a concept, invented by poor people to rationalize their failures.
>hard work can also make people hugely successful An appeal to luck. Touches nothing in OP's post.
Slaves work hard.
I missed this bit somehow: >the many ways in which they were just lucky and/or had a good starting position. For every man that ever got "lucky", there were 99 others who got lucky and blew their shots. But you never hear about those. The vast majority of millionaires are not lucky, they absolutely don't believe in luck, and those are the ones you should focus on.
Hard work doesn't make a man rich, but neither does luck. Rich is just a mindset. It's the process in which you tackle everything in everyday.
Zachary Gonzalez
With so much dick you consume, it is no wonder that you're a loser
Daniel Harris
How did you get rich?
Joseph Williams
I have to leave for a meeting now, so I can't explain too much. But it was from many different things. I started from absolutely nothing and learned my first investment. Just mutual funds. I used the money I saved from my salary. Then I started getting creative and did other things, and trying new things, following my ideas.
At one point in 2015 I was making money from 6 different sources, all small but 5 of them were passive. Together it made a nice life and let me travel. I continued doing stuff like this until I saved up a big nest egg.
Now I make money mostly as a return on my investments.
I also take a salary right now. So between the two, I'm doing OK.
there was a lot of losses and failures all throughout. My life is not perfect nor beautiful. I once lost 227k USD in ONE DAY in 2017 and it kills me to this day when I think about it. But you just pick up and keep going.
To learn more about the mindset that I'm talking about, read the book "think and grow rich" by Napoleon Hill. Of the many things that helped me get here, that one book helped me far more than anything else. Read it with an open mind. Twice if you have to.
Dylan Morales
>rich fuck >born with parents who give a fuck about him, give him proper nutrition, clothe him well, encourage him socially and academically, educate him, and give him proper medical care >poorfag >if you manage to survive an abusive, neglectful childhood with the minimum of psychological disorders and physical deficiencies from it, you're doing pretty well >have these two people compete with each other and call it a "fair game" richfaggots have no understanding what other people go to. you have absolutely no fucking idea. Screw you. Just fuck all of you. If you went through what I did, your weak ass WOULD HAVE BEEN DEAD "luck doesn't exist" my left nut. screw you. only solace is richfucks grow up to be little babies with no tolerance for discomfort or stress and no cleverness or resourcefulness. I hope you all die, I mean it, I hope your woman is raped by a hobo and you are beheaded by cartels. Fuck you.
Nolan Scott
You're right.
I'm probably a luckfag in comparison to you, since I don't come from africa or something. I do come from eastern europe and even here if I compare my life, my conditions with some of the people living in their nice cozy bubbles.
Once I had a boss come over at work. A big shot. He made us watch a video labeled "people are amazing" which was like one of these typical montages of retards doing trendy things with a go-pro on their heads. All the time I was thinking that he doesn't really know people, otherwise he wouldn't have said such a moronic thing.
But what can you do, he lives in his bubble. He has never been severely beaten, burned, waterboarded or anything similar. I have. And so I know that people are NOT amazing.
And also I know that hard work and good attitude means jack fucking shit.
Jacob Roberts
ok I'll bite >poorfag yep, grew up as such >if you manage to survive an abusive, neglectful childhood Yes, abusive mother, done everything in the book, isolated me for years. > with the minimum of psychological disorders Perhaps severe autism, could not function properly at age 18. >and physical deficiencies from it I guess none. But I think most people aren't debilitated growing up. >, you're doing pretty well thx >have these two people compete with each other and call it a "fair game" I was the SECOND person in your example. If you looked at my life, and tried to predict my success, you probably wouldn't!! I have NOTHING going for me. I was probably the most unlucky person in the world.
But hello now I'm 27 and rich hi :)
like I said earlier in this thread: POOR PEOPLE USE "LUCK" AS AN EXCUSE TO RATIONALIZE THEIR FAILURES
If you want to stay poor, then keep on truckin my man. But if you actually want to stop being poor and make something of yourself, then drop this victim mentality.
Justin Cox
It's more related to enterprise than hard work. People willingly cede freedoms because it absolves them of responsibility. So, if you're a meat cutter instead of your boss, who orders the meat, sets the prices, and sets the central displays, you can shit off regularly without possibly losing your income.
Cooper Watson
Hard work is part of it, but it doesn't beat smart work. Two guys, same weight, similar bone structure. Estimated 1RM on a deadlift is 500lb for each and both are trying to raise it by 50lbs. One does intense 1RM tests once a week and disregards his health and level of physical/adrenal fatigue. The other dude organizes himself and makes a proper Powerlifting program. Does 3x5 rep scheme, takes proper deloads every 4 weeks, only tests his 1RM once a month and regulates his training based on how he feels. One worked harder than other, but I'm willing to bet the second athlete will experience more strength gains than the first athlete.
I had the suspicion, but if you fully admit it, all the easier; You're jealous.
Still, from what I have read from your posts i think you would agree with the following premises: 1 The world is unfair: Real succes can't come from 'only' hard work. 2 Some people will not recognize that their succes comes from innate talent
So again, my question is, if you in fact accept that these statements are true, how is it a problem for you? If you say, > The problem is that they are in fact more successful. I dont think you fully accepted premise one: namely that the world is unfair. If you come to accept this and embrace the fact that some people are just better off, while there's nothing you can do about this, you'll be happier.
tldr the world sucks. Its only a problem if you make it out to be a problem
Jaxon Lee
Why the hell do you care and are bothered so much about what other people, especially total strangers, think.
Oliver Gutierrez
I think the manner in which you do it is most important. Going "sure but it doesn't hurt either that you're tall and easy on the eyes" when someone mentions charisma is different from sourly trying to correct them that they won the genetic lottery.
Most of the time I just let it go. It is innately human like you pointed out. I most actively correct it when people sell others short because of it, not when they give themselves too much credit.
Christopher Williams
Because hard work isn't about being the best. It's about fulfilling your own potential. To live life to the fullest. I know I'll never run 100m in less than 10s. But I still run. Because running is better than not running.
