Sexual rejection from partner

I don‘t know. I have never been on her blog.
Imm aware that you might be sceptical because she‘s how she is. But despite this, she actually knows what she‘s talking about.
Look, either read it or don‘t. Worst that can happen is that you know better what you don‘t think about how female sexuality works. Best that can happen is that both you and her learn a thing and can improve your sex life. I know it helped me and my husband a great deal.

So basically she allows sex only when she is ovulating. Good to know.

Want very practical advice? Instead of coming home like normal, go to cinema or gym or something so you arrive home with ~3 hours delay so she notices it. And if she will ask you where have you been, say you had emergency at work or brush her off. Do this randomly like twice per week.

She will either think you are cheating and start sexing you more or worse: she wont care one bit. That will tell you its time to break up. Because at that point you arent lovers, but just roommates.

Btw why havent you tried what the reddit post suggested? Just bend her over the kitchen table and do her.

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My scepticism only comes from her being singled-out among other researchers as being useful, but I've not heard why. For example, people called the other 2 I linked to "bullshit" but no one said the same about Nagoski. The difference is, the people I liked are writing for a public audience who could easily disagree with them, while Nagoski's advice is contained in a book (which biases the response, people who are more likely to agree with her to begin with will buy the book, and then be more likely to find it useful). I'd rather something that used existing tropes/terms, and can therefore be easily compared to existing/competing theories, instead of something so self-enclosed.

I haven't noticed me being any more or less successful during her ovulation, but I would need to measure it more accurately to really confirm that. Instead, I think I'm more successful following Day 5.

>Btw why havent you tried what the reddit post suggested? Just bend her over the kitchen table and do her.
Sometimes insistence works, I remember it working before sleeping once or twice. But I would guess trying that would just make her say "no", and why would I keep trying if she says that? That's a turn-off.

>Want very practical advice? Instead of coming home like normal, go to cinema or gym or something so you arrive home with ~3 hours delay so she notices it. And if she will ask you where have you been, say you had emergency at work or brush her off. Do this randomly like twice per week.
If I have to pretend I'm cheating to get basic intimacy with my partner then it's not worth it. Sounds dysfunctional, and I hope not all women need to be put on edge like that just to be faithful.

I can see why you‘d be sceptic.
Ofc you can also just keep to actual research papers. But sometimes it helps if someone strings those findings together and offers practical advice on how to use it irl.
I‘m definitely not the one who said the links you posted are bullshit. They aren‘t. They are only bullshit because all they do is spread frustration. The state the issue and why it exists, but not how to handle it in long term relationships.
Nagoski‘s book is rather easily comprehendable. Ofc there‘s more scientific literature that basically says the same. But honestly, her‘s is more entertaining. And if i can chose between a boring and an entertaining book giving me the same informations, my choice is obvious.
I‘d rec you other books but the ones i‘ve read are from german or swiss sources. Idk if they exist in english.

>pretend i am cheating
Think of it more like relationship diagnosis. Xray gives you cancer if you have it every day, yet doctors use it all the time to determine things. Try it.

Have you seen the newest avengers movie? Its complete bullshit for zoomers, but still worth to try to see how dead relationship you have.

This is really shit advice. Sorry user. I can‘t just say nothing and risk op falling for this pile of crap.

Dunno user. OP is older proper adult stuck in relationship which makes them miserable. I think he is capable of making his own observations and decisions.

Well I guess I don't have anything to lose by reading it. Still kind of depressing that I have to consider this kind of research and changing my behaviour just to make her like me the way I naturally like her. I want to give it a try, but at the same time why do it at all of I'm not worthy of her attention to begin with? I would be better off alone in that case. Part of the reason I'm willing to try all this is giving her the benefit of the doubt, that she would actually be mature enough to break-up if she's actually not attracted to me. And since she hasn't done so yet, I may as well research and see what I can do to solve it.

Well, you‘ll see.
The most mental changes would have to happen with her. All you‘d need is to understand how female arousal even works to not put obstacles in the way of her desiring sex with you. This really isn‘t about you not being good enough. In my opinion, the biggest issue is that the big consent on female sexuality is that it‘s supposed to work like male sexuality and if it doesn't, it‘s broken and needs to get fixed. You can't imagine the years pf pain i‘ve cause myself by buying into that. Feeling broken took away all the joy i could have experienced with sex. This is what i want your gf to know, so she can start actually enjoying sex again, especially sex with you.

>All you‘d need is to understand how female arousal even works to not put obstacles in the way of her desiring sex with you.
>This really isn‘t about you not being good enough.
These sound in contradiction to me. The same way whenever she has a legit contextual excuse for the rejection all I can think is that such excuses would fall away if I was more desirable.

This is part of the issue. She knows you take the rejections personally and that they hurt you like hell.
This puts huge pressure on her. Either she to jumps your dick or inflict immense emotional suffering on you. Those are her only options. By far the best way to kill any kind of sexual desire is to pressure someone to desire you. Now she‘s really shit out of luck. The pressure basically makes her never want sex, yet she can‘t reject you without hurting you. The options now are to disrespect herself and fuck you despite not feeling it or not fuck you and hurt you badly by doing so. What is she supposed to do in such a situation?

Is there any part of the book you'd think would be good specifically, before I read it linearly?

It‘s been a while. Let me check the index. But i think it would be good to read it linearly because it builds upon previous chapters. There‘s a tl;dr at the end of every chapter. Maybe i could screenshot those and post some.

Well I managed to get it, so I'll just read it back to front if the sections aren't independent of each other.

Here's a simple answer, but you need to be patient
Just stop initiating sex. Initiate other stuff instead, like outings (physically demanding stuff like some sports, running, or hiking is good), shows, dinner date, etc. And don't try to initiate afterwards, either -- the date/outing is for its own sake, it's not a transaction.
You'll find out pretty quick if the problem is that you're just not really friends anymore

Too bad, i have the german version...
Briefly going over it, i do rec to read linearly. I couldn‘t dismiss a single chapter as not relevant in some way to your issue.
It‘s just one book. I‘m sure you wasted time less productively than reading something that might help bring your sex life back on track.

I haven't initiated for more than a month, and don't plan to until I have some resolution in place (some way it can be fixed, or just leaving). I don't want rejection, or for her to do it just because I want to. So it could be the end of that, since she never initiates herself.

Yeah, doesn't seem too long either.

Good luck. I hope you find one or two things worth considering.
I‘m pretty proud of you for not just walking away or giving up but search for a solution instead. That alone puts you way ahead of most couples.

Well it may seem stupid but unless something in the book changes my mind, I don't plan on showing her it or referencing it explicitly. The situation already makes me feel lacking, and I don't want to bring up an external solution because it would feel like "here's this thing I found that will help us because I suck naturally". As I said it may sound stupid, and nothing she's said puts me at fault, but her behaviour matters more than her words to me. My instinct is that if I wasn't at fault on some level, there would be some spontaneity to her, she's never ever
complimented (sexually or non-sexually) me for example, she doesn't know how to or it doesn't occur. But I guess you're still be right that even being willing to try this myself creates a much better chance of solving the problem.

And what else have you initiated?

Nothing more than usual, it's not like sex was "replacing" anything when it was barely there to begin with. She doesn't like outings generally but I still take her shopping, or we do other activities like watching TV shows, etc. I don't think there has ever been a "transactional" dynamic for us because again it is not regular enough and it never occurred to me to try to "buy" such basic intimacy.

>shopping
>watching TV shows
So you guys don't actually do much together at all then?
She's just kind of a roommate that you only wish would put out more often?

Yes, ofc. Read it first and then decide.
There is also a big chance that the sexual issues stem from other areas of the relationship. Meaning that if something else is not working the way it should, it will in most cases seep into the sexuality of a couple. The fact you say she never compliments you in non-sexual ways actually implies that.
There‘s only so much you can do to improve a relationship if it‘s only you trying to solve something. Some stuff is the areas you need to work on yourself, some are the areas she needs to work on and finally there are the areas you both need to work on together. The areas you separately need to tend to are the basis. Without them, trying to fix the areas you both can contribute to is like trying to polish a turd.
For example: if she has intimacy issues, you two can work on your relationship till you‘re steaming. It won‘t solve anything since the root of the issue is with her. She would first have to adress this individual issue before you can move on to the shared responsibilities. In my opinion, this fact is what makes relationships so god damn hard. There might be areas YOU know desperately need to be worked on, but you can‘t progress because your partner has some underlying issues that make it impossible. As long as your partner isn‘t ready, able and willing to fix or even acknowledge those areas, you‘re pretty much done for.
It is highly frustrating to gently try to guide your partner in the right direction to work on their individual issue so you can finally start growing as a couple and them resisting. I really hope your gf is mature and brave enough to face her individual issues so you two can progress past this chaos with your sex life.

We do informal/hobby things together. I don't think either of us have a desire to do formal/romantic stuff (candle-lit dinner at a restaurant, horror movie at the cinema whose selection sucks compared to what you have at home, etc) just for the sake of it. And the idea of hanging out with a roommate just because they are my roommate also sounds odd to me, why would I want to hang out with a stranger? I don't get your distinction here.

That does sound like what the bigger problem will be, actually. She has insecurity issues more generally and as much as I've tried I don't think she wants to fix that area at this point in her life. Maybe that is related, maybe not. I'll see.

After this thread, i‘m aware on your views on random self help books, but i‘m still going to leave you a rec. maybe you can give it a read too and if it reasonates with you, encourage your gf to read it. It might make it a lot easier for both of you to eliminate some of the underlying individual issues making your relationship a lot harder than necessary.
This book sounds cheesy at first, but it‘s actually an obligatory reading material to get a degree in psychology in switzerland.
Pic related

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You're an incel, though. Why are you bringing up this sex talk?

Well I got hold of this too, I'll see if I like it. I'm enjoying Emily's humour so far.

I can't be sure either way of whether it's my fault. So there's no point in giving up at this stage.

Look at this incel trying to discredit him being called out on other threads. He thinks that by spamming "incel incel" everywhere he will dilute it and people will stop pointing out what he is. There truly no creature more pathetic.

Her main excuse is "stress" by the way.

>I get rejected the vast majority of the time I initiate, so now I've stopped.
fuck, me too. I'm so glad to hear I'm not alone.

Which is not an excuse, it‘s a reason.
Stress very predictably kills a wan‘s libido.
Think about it this way:
Biologically speaking, it only makes dense for a woman to crave sex when the environment is right to have a baby. Being stressed is a clear signal for the female body that right now it would probably be a shit idea to get pregnant, thus the libido is shut down. Contrary to males who, in stressful situations, enter into „need to spread my seed“ mode. It made sense when you had to go to war and didn‘t know if you‘ll ever return. That‘s why couples going trough stressful times often end up having a lot of arguments about mismatched sexual appetites.

Dude, Psychology Today is not a reputable source. I've just read two alinea's and have already found some simplifications. For example, viagra definitely does NOT impact mental arousal for men, although there is a back and forth between physical and mental arousal. Basically, it is easier to mentally get in the mood - for men AND women - when you already are in the mood physically, but they are not exactly the same and if a man has 0 mental libido all viagra will do is enable him to fuck physically. Viagra in fact can help a little with female desire because women also experience increased blood flow to the crotch/clitoris when aroused. This is just not always the case depending on the origin of their issues with arousal.

It is also imo ridiculous to question the nature/purpose of male jealousy [if women don't stray as often as men] when realistically speaking a single slip up by a woman in ten years of loyalty can result in raising a child that's not yours. Not saying women necessarily experience less desire than men, I don't think they do, but this logic of "men are very jealous so women must be very inclined to cheat" is ridiculously short-sighted.

There is still a LOT unknown about human conception and the idea of sperm competition in humans is controversial, there is no clear conclusion unlike the article suggests. Furthermore, courtship and physical attraction are already designed to meet the same goal (show who has the best genes). Hell, the very idea that women like x thing at y point in their cycle and y point at x has long been contested; psyarxiv.com/nyba6/

Not even going into the rest of your entertainment psychology sources but I hope this gives you an idea. It is not necessarily 100% wrong but one-sided and scandalized. People read these articles for entertainment, to confirm hopes or fears, not to (primarily) gain factual knowledge.

As for why libido drops over time - there are many life circumstances that can impact desire like confidence (pregnancy/weight gain/aging), health and sickness, overall mood/depression, amount of energy.

However assuming this is not the case, and without knowing about YOUR relationship, what a lot of couples do is have a honeymoon phase where they are horny just looking into each other's eyes, fucking each other's brains out because they're so lust-filled and in love, and four years later when they are used to each other and know every detail of the other person's body they subconsciously still try to have sex this way and want to be hit with desire out of nowhere. It doesn't work like that. First of all when you are infatuated and just looking into your lover's face is like a drug it doesn't take a lot for sex to be good. That same sex that is great three months in can definitely be disappointing three years later. Many men do not fuck in a way that is most effective for the average woman. The "standard" sex consists of short-lived foreplay, penetration as soon as the woman is wet enough to put it in, and then thrusting to finish, often fast. Now I'm not saying this applies to you OP, I am merely pointing it out because this is the male porn fantasy focused on what feels best to men and consciously or subconsciously watching that shit for years tends to shape what you find normal in the bedroom. Many women do not come regularly, or at all, and again when you are high on life just being touched by your partner that doesn't matter. It does when time passes.

Another thing is that you need more "foreforeplay" as you are together longer. At the start simply being into each other, period, and being able to touch each other is hotter than anything ever. Five years down the line that's same old same old. What's exciting is the exact ways you know to turn each other on, the mental aspect.

Sly touches throughout the day, a dirty whisper in public, a romantic note, going out dressed to kill, those are the kind of things that ignite the real passion more than just seeing your partner undress at some point.

It is also quite possible - and I don't mean that accusingly - that the way you approach your partner is counter-productive. It is really hard to feel starved for sex and affection and not get a little pushy, but people don't like to be pushed. If you are trying to watch a show and I keep going "user do you want chocolate? are you sure? I have great chocolate you should taste it - oh but you haven't tasted this one yet so.. yeah sure watch it but you can eat at the same time right? maybe if you smell it do you want it?" And first thing in the morning I ask if you changed your mind about the chocolate, and when later you say "hey user I was thinking I could use..." I go "CHOCOLATE?" how long do you think it would take you to never feel like eating chocolate again? Because you don't associate it with a taste or pleasure but with pressure, guilt, letting your lover down, feeling annoyed because you feel pushed and don't want to feel pushed and resent me for pushing yet you also feel guilty towards me for needing to push.

Basically, it's going to be hard for her to keep track of her own libido if she feels it's a drop in the ocean compared to yours. If you want something REALLY BADLY and she likes it just enough, yeah, sure, it can feel like in comparison she doesn't like it at all, even if that's not true. These patterns are usually very deeply ingrained (esp if your bedroom has been bad for a long time) and it can take a third party (like a relationship therapist) to start sorting through things and break some of these patterns.

>Have you seen the newest avengers movie? Its complete bullshit for zoomers, but still worth to try to see how dead relationship you have.
idgi

By calling it an excuse I didn't mean it wasn't legit, was just the first word that occurred to me. Reason is a better way of putting it.

Didn't realize it is sensationalist. I guess I can't trust anything besides actual abstracts then...

She comes almost every time but I would like to vary it up, if I felt confident enough to. She doesn't seem to want extended periods of just being together with any distractions (e.g. phones) though.

>Sly touches throughout the day, a dirty whisper in public, a romantic note, going out dressed to kill, those are the kind of things that ignite the real passion more than just seeing your partner undress at some point.
At this point I don't have the confidence to do those. I'm used to her not wanting physical contact at all besides massaging. Those things sound ridiculous if I were to do them, there's nothing that suggests I'm desirable, wouldn't it be repulsive to do any of that?

Good point about resentment being counter productive. I try not to show any anger about it, I'm more just sad now anyways.

>At this point I don't have the confidence to do those.

And you blame her? STOP BEING PATHETIC.

Where did I blame her? If I did, it was unintentional.

If I need to be confident to get the full girlfriend experience then I'd rather be rejected in the first place and not be in limbo. Should my reaction to rejection to be to become more confident? My natural reaction is the opposite. Faking it sounds distasteful to me, isn't it worse to be a loser but pretending you're not, rather than just accepting it?

Close to asexual gf with horny and sad bf reporting in.

>>My story:
Relationship started 10 years ago, it was lovely and we had sex multiple time a day ..until I got seriously ill, got operated, had to quit my education and got depressed for many years, could not find a job and struggled financially. Due to physical problems, I could only do a few positions and slowly sex became a chore, repeatable and this is where the rejections started to kick in. It ruined both of us.
I remember he convinced me to let him pleasure me, and I cried throughout the whole thing, and forced myself to orgasm just to get it over with - he didn't know I was crying through it, otherwise he would have stopped. I didn't want him to find out how broken I was.

I finally got a job last year, and I am trying to turn my life around. I slowly noticed my old self return. I think financial stress and depression was the main reason I turned out like this.
I am still not perfectly functional on that part, but at least it's improving. I really want to save my relationship.

I don't think he would have wanted you to hide the crying. You were dealt shitty luck but you're still trying so hard. Probably many heterosexual women don't even try as hard to make it work.

If you don't mind, what was the frequency like? For me (OP) it's not so much about the lack of sex as the relentless rejections that have no context beyond whatever the current reason is (sex), and the complete lack of compliments or physical closeness to make up for it. I also find it hard to understand why one wouldn't do one-sided sexual relief for the other person even if you personally aren't in the mood, I've never been low libido enough to imagine that but I do selfless stuff that's comparable and doesn't seem a big deal to me.

>current reason is (sex)
(*stress)

Yes he would have liked to know, however I cared for him to not loose complete hope. We've both been struggling a lot to make things work, and we are somewhat on the right tracks, after almost 8 miserable years of downhill battle...
Before my illness, sex was not a worry at all, but after my illness it slowly turned out to fill 90% of our life together.
At it's lowest the frequency has been me pleasuring him in various ways around once per week, him pleasuring me once per 2-3 months. Right now it's minimum 3-4 times a week me pleasuring him, while he pleasures me 1-3 times a week. I masturbated 3 times this weekend, which tops what I've done for a very long while.

We have always had physical closeness and complimented each other, otherwise this relationship wouldn't be worth it for us to try to save. We both struggle to sleep without the other being in the same room.

The reasons why I rejected, used to be mainly because it was like a chore to do, that I did not want to do. It had become very boring, tedious, almost negative if not directly negative.

At least now when I reject, it's because I have to sleep and work the following day. I don't reject if I'm not in the mood anymore. I spent 12 hours a day out, due to long transportation time. I just don't reject as much as I used to, and when I do I have a good reason. This kinda uplifts me emotionally, if it makes any sense.

Getting ill, quitting my education and living like a neet took it's toll on me personally, bad financial situation and the sex stuff just broke me down even further. The relationship had it's worst turn last year, because all these problems also affected him and he couldn't do anything to change it. Finally got a shit job, which helped my finances, got some stability in my life, and I started connecting sex with something positive again. I see hope now and that affects him and the relationship.

Aaaand speaking of work, I need sleep now. I hope this thread is alive tomorrow, I'll save a link and check it out then.

Goodnight OP, I really hope you the best.
The lack of sex can crumble and cripple a relationship. It really makes me sad that you are in this situation.

That's trivial. She's supposed to say no with a legitimate excuse, and make it up by initiating or suggesting something as soon as she feels ok with it. That's how any considerate adult would handle it.

I feel the fact she never compliments you or does physical affection is more important than the sex. I'd feel fucking devastated if that was missing.

>I get rejected the vast majority of the time I initiate
my question to you is, has it always been like this or was she willing at first but then at some point started rejecting your advances?
>What do you think I should do?
Contingent on your answer to my first question you have a few options
If she was like this from the beginning, I mean I don't know what else to say to you other than you should have known better, why stay with someone who isn't on the same page with you when it comes to your sex life? If this is the case you should cut your losses, she's not going through anything temporary or fixable that's killing her sex drive, there's nothing you can do about that and you should find a new girl who better suits your needs.

If this started happening at a point in the relationship then I suppose you could try to get her counseling, talk to her about what's going on and make it clear how it makes you feel when she rejects you when she used to come on to your advances all the time.
Your other option here is to break up with her, I mean you have to ask yourself, "Can my self esteem handle this sexual rejection?" Is it worth that to you? Keep in mind even if she is going through something that is killing her sex drive, there's still a good chance her working through that is going to kill your relationship anyway.

I noticed she does initiate hugging if I've been withdrawn at all. Otherwise I think even my minimal physical contact sates her, and any more is stifling.

I think it's steadily got worse over the years. I remember it first being a problem in maybe year 2 but not as bad (and probably my expectations were higher then).

Is it unpleasant in any way to pleasure him when you're not in the mood yourself? My gf has never wanted to do anything if she isn't, and her acting reluctantly is a turn-off for me so I stopped insisting on it. Your frequency and closeness despite severe illness makes my more mundane situation feel laughable, though I suppose it would vary regardless. Still, makes me question how much my gf likes me, and why she would even want to be in the relationship if not (we're largely equal on most terms, if any cynics here are about to say it's about gold-digging or whatever, and it would be out of character too). Maybe she just has more hangups about closeness than average.

Im adding my vote to bullshit. Even trying to understand your sexual feelings is bullshit. You can't concentrate because no sex? What a fucking vagina. No wonder you can't get any... i say with the utmost respect in your own interest.

It's not the sex, it's how it makes me question the relationship itself. It makes me comb over everything else that seems lacking from her. I'm usually quite stoic and I don't think my reaction is so hysterical when you consider how long we've been together, it is very distracting to even consider she might never have actually desired me much in all those years (and even more distracting in that I can't even be sure either way, I have no closure on it). I feel and invest a lot into the relationship, so the idea that it may not be mutual is maddening.

Different user, but you should probably have a heart to heart talk with her and see where she is in regards towards sex, you, and this relationship. Best possibility is she’s just stressed about life. Make it clear how you’re feeling and even ask if she’s just not into you anymore, and listen to her. Ending the relationship on a high note is miles better than finding out she’s getting dick elsewhere or a through sudden break up.

Also do other women or gay men ever hit on you, do you still have IT?

My whole mouth, throat and teeth are small meanwhile his genitals are a truck load. It is painful for me to give oral to him. The pain works positively when I am in the mood, and negatively when I am not in the mood.
To top that off, my depression lead me to gain weight, although I lost like 30kg, I still have 15-20kg more to loose before getting "normal", I get back ache from sex, if it lasts more than 30min (normal sex for us is 40min-1½hour).

Have you tried to talk to your girlfriend, to see if she wants to be in a relationship with you? Or have any intentions of getting some closeness or sex with you? What is her intention with the relationship and it's future, other than not being single?

The only reason me and my bf lasted this long, is because of the closeness we have, despite the sex part. If we lost that, we'd just be good friends, might as well break up and go find closeness with others.

Today when I got home from work, he had made us food, and told me not to do the dishes, because he wants me to conserve energy to have sex later. I am not in the mood, but I agreed. He did his effort, it's time I show mine. It feels stupid and like baby steps, but at least it's progressing.

>that statement

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Unintentionally had a talk since she could sense my negativity. Got a lot of reassurance about negative false beliefs I had (e.g. that any physical contact from me was overbearing). Didn't want to bring up sex since I was already so comforted by this. The physical contact gave me instant stress relief, was nice. The problem re: closeness in general is that she never has urges to initiate it but apparently she doesn't mind receiving it like I thought. I'm going to try and make this kind of contact regular, rather than just me massaging her all the time. Maybe the problem was her constantly feeling content and not sensing (obviously) that I lacked anything similar. I'll just very slowly try to improve the situation on this basis. I feel kind of retarded, insular, pathetic about not trusting her decision to be with me, but I can try to lessen this in the future.

Have sex

Based

You shouldn't feel those things about not trusting her, it's only natural if your relationship has all those lacks. You should however ask her more questions in the future. She can't read your mind, like you can't read hers.
Try to ask her what she wants the future to look like, for the two of you.

I really wish you the best future possible with your gf.
And I really need to kick my own ass to work now x_X didn't get much sleep due to sex, but it was worth it.