Religious with hate in my heart

I appreciate what you are trying to do, I genuinely do, but I’m far to past being influenced by internet posts. I know I’m sinful for my beliefs, and I honestly wish I could forget them. I want to live a good life and be saved but I can’t let go of these thoughts

I don’t think they’re bad people I just hate them because they are here. I have friends in Mexico who I can talk and laugh with but I guess I’m selfish in not sharing something I believe belongs to a certain racial and cultural group. Yes this country was founded by many different types of people but the dominant beliefs it was built on was European ideals with a European dominated society that lasted up until some time ago. However I can’t be influenced by posts at this point, if you have some good reading material to provide I would take a look.

Forget to link your post but the second half refers to what you said

No worries dude. I'd give a work on Henry Clay's foreign policies while he was Speaker for the House a try. That'll give you some context for how the founders and early politicians viewed the subject, which might help. They totally believe black people were biologically sub-human, but that doesn't seem to be your issue. your issue seems to be "right to land" and they were MUCH more accommodating in that respect. The United States of America, originally in the late 1700s / early 1800s, was THE place to go for immigration because we accepted everyone. We were all about FUCK EUROPE and we wanted to make a society where all the people who agreed that FUCK EUROPE could live together and make our own way in the world.

This whole "No one is allowed to come to America because it belongs to the people who are already here" is a sentiment as new as the 1960s because of a HUGE lashback to Lyndon Johnson's (but really JFKs) Civil Rights, and subsequently Voting Rights, acts.

I mean obviously right?
>"No one is allowed to come to America because it belongs to the people who are already here"
That would mean WE should all go home and give it back to the native Americans. Accepting all immigrants is the OG American culture.

Honestly just give up. It would take some kind of miracle epiphany for you to stop believing these things. Either accept you are going to be this hateful person forever, or seek therapy that might be able to open you up and discover WHY you cling so strongly to these beliefs.

Alright I’ll save it and take a look, if I can learn that my views are wrong that could help. I am open to new ideas, I only care for the truth. I will read aspects of his foreign policy and see how I digest it. I have one life and I don’t wanna ruin it from being hateful.

>I only care for the truth
>I have one life and I don’t wanna ruin it from being hateful
The "truth" is that we're all just biological organisms, and ALL biological organisms have evolved to really only care about 2 things:
>Procreating
>Surviving long enough to do so

Anything past that, and you're talking about human concepts of morality. Good v Bad and all that. If you just care about the science, then no human is really any different than any other human fundamentally. Behavior is just a function of culture and upbringing combined with that underlying constant of biology.

If you're talking about who has the "right" to be somewhere, there isn't going to be an objective truth, because a concept of "right" is completely fabricated and man made. You have to sorta decide for yourself what you consider important factors in determining how you live and how you interact with other people.

My personal motto is:
>Everyone should be chill

And that's it. Just be chill. Black dude eating at the same restaurant as you? Well that doesn't effect your food, just be chill man. Mexican dude moves into the house across from you? Doesn't effect your house at all, just be chill. That sort of stuff.

The problem with hate and racism is that it's really hard to not be hypocritical without working with baloney axioms like "Whites are just better because they are". There are no metrics you can pull that cleanly and unambiguously demonstrate that, so you have to either rely on the same sort of "faith" that religion does and believe whites are just better because sky magic from the sky wizard, or you have to cherry-pick examples and ignore context, which makes one just look like an ass hole.

If you're interested in truth and not being hateful, that's the largest first step you can make. I think you'll get there dude. I'll check this thread throughout the day if you feel like chatting.

OP it's not an easy thing to get rid of.
Look man, I'll honest with you, I'm Hispanic. Born and raised in the US from immigrant parents (Illegals that became residents thanks to Regan), grew up loving this place, worked hard and bought me my own little patch of America. That doesn't mean I hate my culture, but my brand of it is not wholly Mexican-American (which to be honest, I'm not a fan of hyphens since I have little to no alliance to Mexico.) The people I care about are those that simply want America to stay America. Which means I'm at odds with those that come here and for some reason feel like it's their right to speak whatever language they know.
I'm also upset by the endless immigration. It bother me a little when I call a number and get "push 1 for spanish" or whatever.

And while I also agree with these two that it's all just par for the course, I'm not cool with how the government seems to give more help and handouts to immigrants and just continues to tax lawful citizens.
It bugs me that they almost feel entitled to never learn English, or even worse somehow instill a sense of arrogance in their kids.
This is where you get the 1st/2nd gen Hispanics that act like America is shit. My question for them is "Why did your folks come here then if it sucks?"

Nothing wrong with being proud of your background, your roots. That also includes white people, which I find funny that for some reason you can't really celebrate? (make Oktoberfest or something into a holiday like Cinco de Mayo or Saint Patricks.) I just wish they would teach their kids that they have it much better here, that America is ripe with opportunity. This place is beautiful, and it's a shame they do nothing but spit and burn the flag.
Where was I going with all this? I get you man, it's tiresome.
At least for me, my issue (which some will call me a self-hating Hispanic for) is that people come from other places and bring those places with them.

ps. Nothing wrong with cultures, bringing parts from others into your own and whatnot.
I smile when I see white families bust open a pinata. Or my gf enjoying Tres Leches (wet cake basically). Do I get angry and yell appropriation? Nah, I like me a good fucking bratwurst with sauerkraut. Enjoy some homemade corned beef and cabbage.
But you don't see me flying a mexican flag or berating other fellow Americans for America taking what used to be mexico, etc etc.

I just want the America to stay the place I grew up in. Eagles, guns, burgers, hot dogs, illegal fireworks and all.

It's the outsider bait and switch.
They come in and say "let us be a part of you, we're just like you."
Then they turn around and say "how dare you expect us to act like you, this is part of who I am."
Happened with homos, happened with the black community, its happening with immigrants.
They want their cake and to eat it too, and white people enable it.

Also OP, there's no reason to be ashamed of "hatred," especially when you see what you grew up with change so drastically. Its what I ask my brother all the time when he says I'm an "Alex Jones conspiracy nut" for disliking that every sign where I live now has Spanish prominently. Do you really think white culture is so worthless and terrible that its okay for it to be washed away with the only people fighting for it being essentially gulag'd without being allowed to put up a fight? Now, I don't advocate for violence on Mexicans. Those people are innocent, mostly, after all. But I would say move away from God. It's a Jewish religion and they most devout of them have done nothing to help this country except sell our military to Israel.

We do celebrate our background. Have you ever been to a St. Patrick's day parade? Columbus Day? Fuck, we HAVE Oktoberfest celebrations.

.
I can agree with you. This is why I find it a waste to shoot up the mosques and things like that.
When people snap and do that they are only removing the symptom. They need to go after the people letting this happen. The ones that made it lawful to force schools to teach spanish or whatever other classes in a language other than English. The ones that find it find okay to bring in muslim refugees and place them all in the same spot instead of isolating them and making them assimilate. Now you have them taking over communities and slowly bringing sharia and shit to America.
The people that come here and don't assimilate, yes they are a problem, but it won't end until the cause is removed or at least changed.
Not advocating for violence :^) Honk Honk CIA/DHS/FBI Honk honk, just that you can't let the Senators and representatives (many how hold dual citizenship with israel, bigthink.piff) continue to push these things on to the people.

If it makes you feel better, I think you're an Alex Jones conspiracy nut for reasons that have nothing to do with signs having Spanish on them.

Well the entire country just spent two years believing that Putin and Trump conspired together to hack the election so I'm in good company then.

I'm just really tired of the whole thing. Just like any other immigrant, if you shoot a politician, 3 more will pop up. I think I'll just wait for either space travel or collapse and go innawoods, build a cabin far from any kind of society and just have no one bother me and I don't bother them. I am an INTP after all, me and other people just can't get along. I'm meant to be alone.

>happened with the black community
thats a good one

If you want to be closer to "god," read the actual fucking bible. Your racism probably has more foundation than your religious beliefs and they are two different things. Didn't Moses marry an ethiopian? Im not endorsing god or non whit people but your thinking doesn't make sense. If god made lucifer and Hitler, what makes you think that you are special?

First guy you quoted right about your second part, but:

>I'm not cool with how the government seems to give more help and handouts to immigrants and just continues to tax lawful citizens.
Immigrants here often have no established support system. It makes sense that the government would help them get established. I don't see any problem with this since it logically follows. Taxing lawful citizens isn't really a concern, taxes are good.

>It bugs me that they almost feel entitled to never learn English
I mean that IS the american tradition. You had polish people immigrating here and establishing whole town in Michigan and Pennsylvania that spoke nothing but Polish. Same thing with Germans, Italians, Spanish... There is nothing special about English when you live in a multicultural country like the USA (I mean the original languages here were all native american, and anything other than that is just a bunch of europeans bullying their way around).

>it's a shame they do nothing but spit and burn the flag.
This begins to sound like some projecting. You make it sound like everyone does that and that's simply untrue. You can't really begin to be rational about your approach to immigrants and their willingness to adopt a new culture if you can't be truthful about the facts. Remember there are 330 million people in this country. 33 million people having a flag burning demonstration would still only be 1%. It's simply not that prevalent (and not even limited to immigrants. Tons of white southerners burn the american flag and fly the confederate one because they're sour cry-babies holding on to a war that ended 150+ years ago).

Look deeper into the bible user. There's a big difference between hate and justice.

Jesus loved everyone, but he kicked some people's asses (literally) and he told some people what was up. He did it for the greater good of mankind and he actually loved the people whose asses he was kicking. Sometimes love means serving someone up some justice. Because after time has passed they see why the were served some justice and repent and turn to good ways.

A lot of your feelings are justified.

I'm a christian. While many immigrants come to America and bring wonderful things, the cultural norm today is to come here, shit on America and just recreate your homeland once you get here. Asians and Hispanics don't really do this, but middle easterners do and they need to learn some damn respect.

Trump is mostly right about attitudes today. Embrace conflict do not run from it.

>the cultural norm today is to come here, shit on America and just recreate your homeland once you get here
That has always been the cultural norm for this country. Polish settlements recreated the culture of poland. Irish settlements recreated the irish culture. No one gave a shit about the culture that was already here (native american) and just steam rolled it.

Why should anyone immigrating today do any differently?

(This is exactly what I mentioned about not being able to defend these stances without being hypocritical)

Yeah and people were racist against the Poles and the Irish too (for good reason). No one believes in your "stand down and just die" approach.

Hate the sin, not the sinner. Did Jesus love the money-changers when he violently drove them out of the temple?

So do you want to end up like the Native Americans, then?

There's nothing sinful about them. Look up the tower of Babylon.

The biggest thing to remember is keep your associations as granular as possible. Do you *actually* hate these immigrants for their skin color? Or their culture? Could it be that they're acting entitled or not willing to adapt, and that's what you have a problem with?

My dad was an immigrant, and he was a noble, good father. Who had the respect of his community. He understood "when in rome" in a way that immigrants today don't. Yet when I see other immigrants, even from the same part of the world, I'm ashamed of the association. Because they're being jerks, and I don't want that to reflect on me.

What I'm getting at is that it may not be immigrants you have an issue with, but just the particularly bad ones. The ones unwilling to adapt, and/or are rude and entitled. The solution is exposure. Find some people of other skin colors that are neat to be around. I used this to get over my hangups with gay people. The flamboyant ones are annoying and I don't hang out with them - and wouldn't if they were straight honestly. Chill ones, I dig them - because at that point I'd get along with them regardless.

Also, as corny as it sounds, the fact that you want to improve is a good starting point. Good luck user.

Research does show that so-called multiculturalism and mass immigration reduces social cohesion, trust between neighbors, and community basically into nothing. It's natural to look at people who do not look like you and distrust them; it's instinct. It's even natural to be angry when your home becomes something else, because of powers greater than those that exist there decided it necessary, and saddened that it is lost; some part of you feeling that it is an invasion and resenting the new comers. Now, that's not to say you cannot move past that, if you genuinely desire to; you just have to reign in your feelings of distrust until you've gotten to know them on an individual level (or learned to tolerate them, but I wouldn't claim that tolerance is a Christian value like most American protestants would; any fool and coward can learn to tolerate something, but righteousness requires that you stand up to evil wherever you find it).

It's worth remembering that the new comers--and they may share a faith, but most African branches of major religions have gone full crazy town; entertaining, but not where you'd go to find spiritual enlightenment--are not at fault. They were offered a better life, and like any sane person, they took it. Your anger and rage and hatred should be directed at the people who encourage unnatural states of being--multiculturalism, diversity, etc--and perpetuate mass immigration (in American politics that's basically everyone in government).

It's okay to be wary of people who don't look like you or people you don't know--especially if you've noticed trends--but you should always endeavor to treat everyone as individuals. Get to know them, as individuals, but still be informed of trends associated with certain groups so you know how to guard yourself and yours. It's just survival, not really hatred.

I couldn't get as far as reading this thread as I wanted to before I had to respond to a couple things:

...

Jesus Christ, mate. Get off the "evil white man" narrative because all peoples have done horrible things to one another. Slavery is not an evil unique to white people--the only thing unique about slavery and white people is that we ENDED it--and the only reason we're still dealing with it in America is because we didn't sterilize them like slave owners in central and southern America did. Hell, it's worth mentioning that those poor slaves were first enslaved by rival tribes or Arabs and that New World slave ships just pulled into port and bought them at market!

Throughout history we have stories of Country A invading, conquering, and colonizing Country B. By modern standards that isn't ever the right thing to do, but in a historical context white Americans have won that land and the resources within it by right of conquest. Modern standards pretend that we are not all selfish, vicious animals out for resources to make OUR people stronger than THEIR people--and further pretend that humanitarian concerns and the quality of life of peoples they neither know or care about, are of the upmost importance--but all that really is is self-righteous virtue pandering to feel like we're so much better than the uncivilized barbarians that came before us. If you want to go back in history and figure out which piece of land first belonged to which people you'll be at it for a long, long time.

Oh, and by the definition set by the United Nations white people are being subject to a genocide. To pretend otherwise is intellectual dishonesty at best. The survival of the fittest argument doesn't reply in this context, either. But my post is too long, so later.

This reminds me of that comic about using travel to be rid of hatred in nationalistic nations vs hatred in multicultural countries of peace and love and understanding.

JFC, I had to retype this post so I probably missed a point I had to begin with.

Okay, no. It does not make sense to import immigrants who NEED government support to get on their feet--legitimately desperate refugees are one thing, but lawful immigrants? Hell no--because, depending on the kind of legal immigrant, they should already have a job, a spouse, or a university dorm lined up. Illegal immigrants aren't worth mentioning, either, because they're a notorious drain on social resources and don't pay their fair share of taxes (but sure do some of enjoy getting those fat refund checks).

Sure, it's the natural desire of people to stay who they already are--historically immigrants wanted a better life, not to give up who they were as a people; just as modern Americans can see their way of life slipping away and don't want to give it up; it's fucking natural--but, given sufficient time, almost all those communities integrate fairly well (most of them can speak English, and many of them fly the American flag). It's part of why we should put what amounts to a full stop on all incoming immigration in order to allow for our newer immigrants time to assimilate--and I'm talking decades here; it'll take generations before the damage done by "lol let's take a million immigrants a year!" is mended; that policy is in no way, shape, or form, sustainable--restore some social cohesion and sense of community trust, and to weather the automation bomb waiting for us on the horizon.

But, oh no! We need cheap labor and a larger tax base to pay for our aging, working population that couldn't be arsed to reproduce at replacement rates!

Oh, and there's enough illegal immigrants who do fly the flags of their native countries--though some long-standing immigrants do, too, but not in quite the same militant way--and burn the American flag for it to be a valid talking point. That's not to say they all do, but enough do.

I like you user.

Don't OP, let your hate fuel you, let your hate grow stronger in you, the day of the rope is near!
The mighty American crusaders will make the degenerates and leftists pay!

Jesus loved everyone as long as they were human.
Spics and niggers are nothing more than wolves with sheep clothing, they are not human, they are cattle to be prevented from going wild.

>stand down and just die
Acting as if someone said something they didn't and then getting fired up about it is the battle-cry of the frothing retard.

>pay their fair share of taxes (but sure do some of enjoy getting those fat refund checks).
It sounds much more like you're talking about Amazon dot com, desu (unless you're actually just naive and don't know who is benefiting from tax breaks these days).

>Americans can see their way of life slipping away
I find this an odd statement. You realize that Originally people came to amerca because land was basically free? You could come from a shit hole slum in Europe, claim 400 acres of frontier for yourself, and become a huge successful farmer. That was the allure of America. (though it was some bullshit. In around, I think, 1740 what is now New York State was owned by THREE british aristocrats, their property being about 2.3 million acres each).

Point is, the Frontier was officially recognized as "gone" by the US census in 1890. The "American" way of life died then, not now. Of course you had the Baby Boomers in the 1950s exploit the fuck out of the post war economy and cook up this dream of the white picket fence suburban house and 3 kids. That was a New America that's also now dead (because the boomers liked it so much they decided they should be able to keep their wealth and let future generations wither).

Point is, here in 2019 the American Way Of Life isn't fading, it's gone bucko. You've always been too late, and it's not the brown kids that did it, it's your rich white boomer overlords.

>we should put what amounts to a full stop on all incoming immigration in order to allow for our newer immigrants time to assimilate

Not how that works. Pic related. Our immigration levels are comparatively lower than they've ever been with the except of the post world war 2 isolationist dip.

>We need cheap labor and a larger tax base to pay for our aging
Yup, boomers benefit from cheap labor. They work to ensure illegal immigrants can stay here, but also tell you to hate them so that they can never get out of being poor.

You sound 100% like a boomer drone.

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comic?

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stop being a faggot

OP I highly recommend this book. I think it will give you clarity on what identity and 'belonging' can really mean to one person, and other people.

In fact, anyone who is 'alt-right' or highly ethnic nationalist should read this.

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... By "some" I was referring to the small number of illegal aliens who filed and were awarded large tax refund checks, it was largely intended as a throw-away comment, but go ahead and move those goalposts as if large corporations had anything to do with the previous conversation (and I'm the kind of person that would like to smash Amazon and every other oligopoly into tiny pieces, so don't start).

A lot of Americans won't agree with you that their way of life is already dead and gone (and I'll admit to being one of them), but I'll agree with you that boomers caused a lot of the damage. It's not over until it's over, and it's not over yet.

Okay? That doesn't mean mass immigration is a fundamentally good idea; it's not. Social cohesion is still a mess however you spin the story; if we absolutely must continue to import immigrants--and I don't believe that we should, at the very least the lurking automation crisis is reason enough to hold back, especially regarding low-skill labor imports--they should be immigrants that share fundamental values with the host/founding population.

>implying you couldn't tell that was sarcasm.

user, pls. I thought you were smarter than that.

Yeah, it's based off that quote. I grabbed the edit I'm referring to:

I'll add it to my list, though I'm not quite an ethnic nationalist.

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>small number of illegal aliens who filed and were awarded large tax refund checks
>small number
that was my only point dude. Anyone who complains about taxes and benefits needs to aim their discussion at large monopolies over illegal immigrants to be consistent with their complaint. It's a MASSIVELY larger problem there.

>It's not over until it's over, and it's not over yet.
Maybe I wasn't clear. It's not that "it's over". It's that the idea of what it means to have "The American Dream" changes. Referencing the past is meaningless because THOSE dreams are dead. You can't come from foreign poverty and just take 400+ acres and be successful anymore. You can't just walk out of one job and into another at a 20% raise every 18 months and live the suburban dream anymore (like the boomers could). We in 2019 have different goals and different dreams that are MUCH more stifled than generations before us and that's all you have to keep in mind. A lot of people look at boomer life, or some amorphous dream where you can go from poor to rich with nothing but hard work, and see that it doesn't work anymore today and blame immigrants. It's TRUE that those things don't work anymore today, but it's a lie that it's because of immigrants. It's because in the 1950s a CEO made on average 18-20x his lowest employees wage. Now in 2019 the average CEO makes 350x his lowest employee's wage. Your opportunity at wealth is gone, and it's because of the fags at the top of Coca-Cola Corp or Amazon or Chevron or any other major corporation. They're your villains in this piece. It's just hard for people to stomach that because they're all white men, and that's what young conservatives HOPE they can grow up to be (but lol they can't. Rich people hate poor people more than they hate brown people. You'll never join the club).

cont.

cont.

>Social cohesion is still a mess however you
Yeah, my point was that it was -always- a mess. That your European ancestors didn't get along until the scary brown folks came. They came, they shit all over the cultures that were already here, and they took over enforcing their own. If you're afraid that islamic or latin immigrants are going to do this... what right do you have to complain? You're only where you are because your grand dad did EXACTLY what they're doing (hyperbole of course.. it was like your great great great great grand dad). White americans have no logically consistent leg to stand on in regards this. The actions that got them here are the same that immigrants are taking now, we're just on the other side of the coin this time.

If we don't like it, aw shit maybe we should have listened when those native americans called us all faggots for literally annexing their land.

The problem with this whole argument is it works until the counterpoint is "yeah you know what, we kicked those Injuns out good-- maybe the rest of em would like some of that sweet action."

As an outsider to your argument, my question is how many bodies the non-whites want to see before they acquiesce that they're shitting up the country.

>my question is how many bodies the non-whites want to see before they acquiesce that they're shitting up the country.
This is huge flaw in your reasoning. Is it really non whites that are "shitting up the country" Are they behind 4 decades of stagnate wages? Are they behind rising cost of higher education? Are they behind the opioid crisis, and america's shitty healthcare system. Are they causing america's never ending wars and absurdly huge military budget while our infrastructure crumbles? Your fighting with other working class and poor people while the rich and laughing all the way to the bank.

>my question is how many bodies the non-whites want to see before they acquiesce that they're shitting up the country.
There is no limit. We didn't have a limit. We GENOCIDED a whole god damn people. Like you think WW2 holocaust was bad? Shit was barely 8 digits of deaths. We slaughtered an entire CONTINENT of people because we wanted to keep our cool European cultures. What makes you think anyone would be any different? Literally any accusation you can level at immigrants not adopting the culture of the land they're moving into is hypocritical 10 fold when you look at European immigrants to early americans.

We're just mad that we're not on the immigrating side this time. It's the most childish version of "it's ok when Nintendo does it" (to steal a meme from /v/). It's ok when Europeans move in and shit all over everyone, but try to move in to a place with white people and shit all over them? Oh god, no that's off limits. THAT'S abhorrent. But it's ok when we do it :^)

The counter argument is this: So lets say mexican people are moving into your area and supplanting a formerly majority european population: Why don't you just learn spanish and start eating mexican food? That's just as viable a solution as them learning english and eating McDonalds.

100% correct.

If you’re in the us then most immigrants are Hispanic
Hispanics are whites mixed with natives
Natives are most closely related to Europeans
so basically Hispanics are mostly white

>Natives are most closely related to Europeans
About as wrong as you could possibly be. Native Americans are descended either from Polynesians or East/North Asians / Mongolians (from the land bridge that spanned Russia/Alaska).

You're right that they're basically half or more Spanish though. Now a days.

>moving the goalposts
Will this kind of waxing and waning historical really help when Mexicans are being blown the fuck out because people like you justify away the agreement they sign when they come to the USA?

Look, do what you want, fag. I don't care. It's you, your apologists and your sympathy case that gets blown the fuck out when push comes to shove.
Justify whatever you want. All I asked is how many dead blacks and Mexicans it takes before you guys swallow your moron pride and just fucking ASSIMILATE.
>don't want to assimilate!

Gee whiz maybe go to A DIFFERENT FUCKEN COUNTRY THEN YOU RETARD APE

You're projecting an awful lot of nonsense onto me, user. Take a deep breath and lets continue this conversation like adults.

Now, the bigger issue with illegal immigrants--and we have no idea how many there are; there was a Yale study that came out last year, I think, whose most conservative estimate was ~22 million, and we've heard estimates ranging between 10 and 30 million for years; we might have a better idea after the next US Census--is that they strain and overwhelm social services (police, fire, utilities, benefits, etc). Generally speaking, the only taxes they pay are sales taxes on various goods; however you look at up to 30 million "residents" not paying their fair share of taxes is a big problem.

You've also drawn away from that point to nitpick about the tiny minority of illegal aliens who actually file taxes--I was bitching about them scamming the system and getting massive refunds--which is, again, intellectually dishonest. Yes, major corporations, monopolies, and oligopolies are a huge problem; so are a lot of other things regarding the state of our country. That doesn't mean our grievances about specific problems aren't legitimate--such as illegals being a drain on our country's resources--even without touching on an adjacent but not exactly relevant issue (such as Amazon and friends).

user, just because I have have issues with illegal immigrants/mass migration/multiculturalism doesn't mean I have brown people or blame immigrants. As I told OP earlier in the thread, it's largely not their fault--they were offered a chance at a better life, and like any sane person, they took it--and it's wiser to hate the policy maker than the individual right in front of you. I can, however, resent them as a symptom of what this country is becoming.

Americans, however, are people with defiance in their hearts, fire in their bellies, and steel in their spines...

1/2

; each of us live and breathe Revolution (especially those of us with an understanding of our Founder's ideals and philosophies). By and large we do not like being told what to do or what to think (though those megacorporations are awfully good at trying); we are stubborn, obnoxiously patriotic (and I love it), and cling to common sense like a drowning man holds onto a raft (admittedly, that isn't something that shows up in large cities much). It is these people who make up America, and I have nothing but faith in them.

That doesn't mean things are all good--and the crony corporatism that's taken over the corpse of American capitalism is evil, you'll get no argument from me on that, but you've seem to taken an awfully socialist/marxist bent on that; again, the blame lays with the elite and their policy-making lapdogs--but so long as those people exist the fight lives on. Maybe the American dream as we new it is dead, but that only means we can tear down the crumbling remains of the new one and build something better.

And, user, if social cohesion was always a mess why is it measurably worse now? European immigrants of old might have all hated each other, but they built communities that shared a fundamental system of values in a way current immigrants don't really. Again, it's not wrong to want to preserve the way of life you grew up knowing, just as it's not wrong to resent (and even fear/distrust) immigrants that don't share your values or are stereotypically dangerous (I mean, there was a NYT, I think, article a month or so back about how pretty much every lady illegal that was smuggled across the border was viciously raped; but yeah, "walls are evil lmao" and "you're a racist troglodyte if you see a problem here.")

2/3 (reeeeeeeee)

Ultimately the blame lies, again, with the elite and the policy makers. Our own government working to replace the existing people, demographically speaking, is hardly the same thing as a largely unified--and yes, America was colonized by various powers; we know--power buying/conquering land for itself.

3/3...

Like human life matters to those people.

user, whatever social problems you want to site don't really explain the 13% of the population is responsible for 50% of the violent crime (and if you break that 13% down into just black men that's closer to 6%) statistic.

Yes, we agree that there are problems. A lot of it boils down to the established elite, poor government policy, a collapse of social cohesion, family values, and community.

I'll come back to the rest of that in a minute.

So retarded I'm not even sure where to start, except maybe: Go back and actually read the thread? No immigrants have ever wanted to assimilate, least of all your European ancestors. Why would you ever think latin immigrants would be the exception? Straight sound like you've a sub-50 IQ.

I don't think we should actually be arguing. We're hammering on a lot of the same points. I'm just trying to point out some dissonance.

>Illegal immigrants strain the system
The objective truth is that yes, this happens. They do strain the system, but you HAVE to put that in context. Why is the system so limited that a number of immigrants that come out to even the MOST inflated numbers are less than 1% of the country manage to strain it? What are the REAL problems here?
>Those services are under funded.
because
>Amazon paying $0 in taxes ALONE. That ONE company, is a greater loss of revenue for public services that 10x what ever single immigrant, legal or illegal, would generate if they all paid their taxes.

You're right that this country is under seige financially, but it's from the guys at the top, not the bottom. You're complaining about the 1 drop of brown in the bucket of white. There is NO way to justify that without eventually falling back on "well the guys at the top are white so they're ok".

Another analogy would be: You're worried about whether or not you should change the oil in your car when both axles are snapped in half. That oil change isn't going to get your car running.

> if social cohesion was always a mess why is it measurably worse now?
From a historical perspective, it's not. It's really really not.

> but they built communities that shared a fundamental system of values.
They didn't. That's what I'm trying to tell you. Read about how Irish immigrants were treated in New York and Chicago. Read about how Spanish Immigrants were treated in Florida, or French in Michigan or Main. We went to ACTUAL WAR with their home countries
1/?

(You)
>Ultimately the blame lies, again, with the elite and the policy makers.
Yeah, exactly. This is the biggest point and we seem to agree on it. Like... look at the overall wealth generated by this country. If split evenly among every. single. american. Young, old, man, woman, and you're looking at being able to provide north of $400,000 a year to every single person. I don't know about you but that's WAY more money than I make. If we ACTUALLY focused on internal improvements, there is no reason at all we couldn't provide basic services for all immigrants AND let you and your family live the comfiest life you could imagine.

The greatest trick this country has pulled, is letting the Koch Brothers fuck us all in the ass as they whisper into your ear "The brown guys are at fault".

Dude, we've already been over this: all peoples throughout history have done horrible things. That is not unique to white people, get off the "evil white man" narrative already, because it's dead wrong.

Have white people done horrible things in history? Of course, but so has every other racial and ethnic group in existence. Before Europeans came along the Natives warred among themselves and slaughtered each other--as any people does when they believe themselves alone in the world--and after the Europeans came it was a mixture of purchasing land for beads and silly trinkets--Natives can claim they were scammed all they want, but this really stems from a misunderstanding; European settlers had a concept of property, including land; Natives largely believed that it was impossible to own land and thus saw no issue with "selling it" to the "silly paleskins"--which was followed by accidental, as Europeans really just wanted to trade and didn't really know enough about germs to figure out why certain supplies might be dangerous, epidemics which later became intentional, which followed by war over land/resources/way of life, which then culminated in Andrew Jackson being Andrew Jackson and getting fed up with the entire thing and frog marching them West. (We could even touch on more modern injustices done to Natives, such as reservations being on such infertile land, the drug and alcohol epidemic fucking them up, and forced/non-consensual sterilization).

Is what we did to them wrong by today's standards? Of course. War is often cruel and we fight it to preserve ourselves and our people, our way of life, and to gain resources and land. Is what happened to the Natives equivalent to what is happening to white Americans now? No, and I've already said why.

Blacks were on track to assimilate semi-well--considering they're blacks--until drugs, rap music, and the race riots of the 60's cleared out almost all of the jobs in the inner cities. You could unironically blame glowniggers if you wanted to.

You're pretty cool for a guy I disagree on a lot of the nuance with.

I did see a headline--might have been a video title, on second thought--the other day trying to debunk the "Amazon pays no taxes" claim, but I haven't had a chance to look into it (I'll see if I can find it and get back to you). I'd really like to see a 15% corporate tax with no loopholes; 15% is low enough most companies won't really mind paying it, and a lack of loopholes would ensure shady bullshit, like what's going on with Amazon, doesn't happen.

Now, I've never said it's okay because the elite are white--a lot of them are Jews, anyway, and I'm a Jow Forumstard enough to make that distinction--because what they're doing is wrong. Now, don't get me wrong, I don't want to punish success--as a lot of boomer-tier conservatives claim whenever someone touches on the topic--and I don't believe all rich people are inherently evil. A lot of them are; such as Zuckerberg and the rest of Silicone Valley; the people who own the 5/6 companies who own 90% of the media Americans consume; etc. The problem is that a lot of these elite--and the banks and globalists that back them--try to disenfranchise the people, destroy their family structures, socially engineer them, destroy their senses of community, flood drugs into their neighborhoods, crush and restrict their livelihoods, and so on it goes. It's no wonder a lot of Jow Forums believes that these globalist elites are trying to create a rootless mud race to enslave.

I'm not even certain the Koch Brothers are even relevant--there were a lot of campaign ads talking about them during the Midterms, but that's about it--the way Soros-and-friends are. But eh, evil billionaires; a dime a dozen.

Yep, it was a video.

Have some Crowder pretending to be Bernie (I haven't watched the whole thing yet, just some of the intro):

youtube.com/watch?v=k6yd9sMYhoM

>all peoples throughout history have done horrible things
>get off the "evil white man" narrative already, because it's dead wrong.
No, it's dead right. Every group clutches to their own culture. Very few groups have done so with as much success, and as much genocide along the way, as Western European cultures.

>Before Europeans came along the Natives warred among themselves and slaughtered each other
>Natives can claim they were scammed all they want, but this really stems from a misunderstanding
>Europeans really just wanted to trade and didn't really know enough about germs to figure out why certain supplies might be dangerous

Oh nvm. This is the most pathetic historical revisionism I have seen in quite some time.

Native Americans had "skirmishes" by European standards. Europeans came in, with wildly superior military technology and systematically genocided an entire continent. At no point was it a "war" by European standards. Even the worst single battles were literally jokes. The WORST single battle lost by europeans involved:
>632 soldiers killed or captured
As opposed to:
>By 1691, the population of indigenous Americans had declined by 90-95 percent, or by around 130 million people.

Incomparable. You either are possessed by the deepest racism at the cost of any critical thinking ability, OR, you've been done a grave disservice by being so poorly educated. I'm not sure which, but until you go read some history, you really can't contribute to this conversation.

>About as wrong as you could possibly be
R and Q are both descendants of P

>R and Q are both descendants of P
Ok, I yield. We're all more or less Africans.

>I'd really like to see a 15% corporate tax with no loopholes
Oh you and me both, man. I'd crank it WAY higher than that though. Capitalism as we understand it in amerca (in it's legal sense) was formulated, as a system, before the industrial revolution. A man earned what he made and if you made a better thing you earned more. Then the big beast of AUTOMATION came along and a man no longer earned what he made. He earned what the machines he owned made. That was the beginning of a vicious downward spiral of corporate domination. There's actually a great book called... shit let me go fetch it... (pic related).

It was originally published in 1893 (right after the frontier was officially considered "gone") and it goes into predicting what's going to happen economically. How when people can't just move west and make their own farm (which prevented wage stagnation. Companies couldn't under pay you if you could always just threaten to leave and claim 400 acres of land in the West), that incorporated mega-businesses would eventually monopolize industry, use money to corrupt government, and created a wildly imbalanced economic state in the nation that was never ready to run out of free land.

Dude basically called the home run from 100 years in the past.

1/2

Attached: Frontier.jpg (353x559, 59K)

2/2

>it's no wonder a lot of Jow Forums believes that these globalist elites are trying to create a rootless mud race to enslave.
Yeah basically, except the final nail in the coffin is that they've convinced their target "slave mud race" (poor conservative whites) into believing that brown people are the reason they're poor.

A lot of what you're saying is grounded in truth and is totally understandable. I think it's merely a fruitless endeavor to currently blame immigrants. It's like... you're stuck in a room, starving, and there is one apple on the floor. You and a Mexican dude are told only one of you gets the apple and to kill the other guy.

A lot of poor whites will have the reaction of:
>Fuck that mexican dude! I'm not gonna let him take the apple when I'M HUNGRY
instead of:
>Fuck the morally bankrupt billionaire piece of shit that put us in this room.

Well, that's the American public education system for you. I'll freely admit that this isn't a period of history I've really researched (I know the gist, and I've paraphrased it poorly here) and really need to get around to.

I've been more concerned with philosophy and economic theory than history lately--though I do have a book on Jackson somewhere, but considering the title it's more about what a badass he is than about all the awful shit he did--so, eh.

Oh the American Education system is literally trash. I agree with you 100%.

Andrew Jackson might be the most polarizing political figure in our history. I would HIGHLY recommend you read that book, but upon the stipulation that you ALSO read pic related.

Henry Clay was Jackson's greatest political rival and they were basically polar opposites and both had egregious flaws.

While Jackson said:
>Working class americans are the most important group. Fuck private money interfering with government
(This is good), he also said:
>Anyone who isn't white can literally be skinned alive and I don't give a shit. Kill em all
(This is bad).

Clay was the opposite and championed positive relations with the Latin America colonies that were striving for their own independence (just like the USA achieved from Britain), a BEVY of Internal Improvements that would benefit the country at large... buuuuuuuuut he was also a big believer in
>Oh it's not a conflict of interest if I'm Speaker for the House and am in control of a committee deliberating bills that effect banks of which I am on the board of directors.

The Clay book actually does a good job of going into why Jackson's balancing of the budget (something he gets a lot of praise for in generally uneducated circles) was actually at a GRAVE cost to foreign relations that cost us tremendously in both the war of 1812 AND for being wildly under prepared for the tensions that gave rise to the Civil War.

They're both fascinating political figures, but it's pretty hard to land anywhere other than
"Andrew Jackson is a huge piece of shit" unless you share the rather colossal White Pride racism.

Attached: HC.jpg (333x499, 29K)

>the war of 1812
(to be clear, 1812 was before Jackson, but it was those proto-policies in regards to tariffs that Jackson expanded into generally Jacksonian Economic policies)

Huh, I'll add it to my list (and secretly long for intuitive anti-trust legislation in the meantime).

I can't help but think you're mischaracterizing a lot of poor, white conservatives. Yes, a lot of the people who hit all of those notches are white trash--and these white trash types would definitely put their immediate self-interest over their long-term interest; nor would they approach the situation, locked in a room with a Mexican, with wisdom--but there's a certain folk wisdom and moral character found in a lot of these people.

Also, the reason Jow Forums calls it a "rootless mud race" is because they sincerely believe the globalist elite is pushing white genocide--which they've managed to convince me is occurring according to UN definitions--because they fear white people. Conservative whites--especially very conservative whites--are the only white people who reproduce at or above the replacement level, cling to the places they are born, and are more likely to own arms. By pushing interbreeding and further disenfranchising whites Jow Forums believes that globalists will lower the standard IQ, create a soulless, rootless population that is easy to control for purposes of slave labor. That's essentially the theory I was referencing there.

To further emphasize how bad it was, I was in high school during No Child Left Behind (but out before Common Core, so thank God for that), in... Arizona, which was ranked 48th in Education at the time.

Clay sounds like a corrupt douchenozzle, but I'll give him a read. The Jackson book I have is pic related.

Attached: 3147367.jpg (299x450, 45K)

I mean, you're not exactly wrong in regards to globalists and what they want but white supremacists and "alt-right" types can't seem to grasp a very important detail: "The globalists" aren't one specific group and a great many of them are Republican. Yet, these whites vote Republican anyway even though conservatives are literally being paid by corporate lobbyists to keep all the poors in line, and that INCLUDES the pale ones.

>but there's a certain folk wisdom and moral character found

So full disclaimer, I was born in California which "discredits me" to a lot of heart landers because "west coast onions boys" or whatever. My wife is from rural Illinois however, and I've actually loved my time traveling around small town mid-west america because I get to see an American culture that's not like what I grew up with, and a lot of those people ARE good, intelligent people. Way more than they get credit for over here on the west coast.

Personally, if we're going to get into personal philosophies, I think people don't focus enough on actual problems. Like "these immigrants are taking my jobs!" isn't a complaint about jobs, it's a complaint about means. Why do you even want that job? So you can provide for your family? So you can give yourself a sense of identity and purpose? Generally we as a culture are too "big picture". It's hash tag culture and I loath the imprecise language that gets us in trouble. It's the whole reason people get into a tizzy about "black lives matter". People can only respond with "uhhh all lives matter you lib cuck" because "black lives matter" isn't a clear message. It's trying to say "in a system where some lives are considered important and others unimportant, we should try and not lose sight of the ones that get forgotten or brushed aside". I don't want to get into a BLM argument, but that's an example of what I mean. People get worked up about some outward facing problem and don't always analyze WHY that problem exists in the first place.

I'm a software engineer by trade and it's SO often the problem where you get stuck trying to fix something on like... step 8 in a sequence, and you realize the real problem was actually way up on step 2. Our country has fundamental architecture flaws and they manifest in visible real world ways that aren't really reflective of their optimal solutions.

As I said waaaay up top
>Everyone should be chill

>Clay sounds like a corrupt douchenozzle
That's sorta the point. Well... sorta. Clay was very "American" by today's standards.
>I put myself in a position where I'm on a board of directors of a bank primed to give me FAT pay checks, AND I'm the Speaker of the House in control of forming committees to make laws governing aforementioned bank. Don't you wish you were as smart as me, loser?

He's incredibly capitalistic in that sense. However he also had a HUGE focus on internal improvements (roads, dams, public services) and support for impoverished people. He loved America and embodied the idea that every human had a natural right to freedom.

Jackson embodied America in a very different way. Every single statement he made was given the silent caveat of "as long as you're white", but that aside, he was very hands off. "I'll kill every single one of these blacks / indians / spaniards / french and then you'll have all this frontier to make of yourself what you will, for better or for worse".

In that sense, as long as you were white, Jackson believed in equal opportunity. Everyone should be able to go out and make a farm out of the infinity land (lol) to the west. Clay was more practical in that he believed we should all take care of each other (and skim a bit off the top if you're so smart and handsome and clever as he was) and construct the strongest, wealthiest, most idyllic nation in the world.

They both had positives and negatives. I fall into the Clay camp more often than I fall into the Jackson camp, but their major flaws are both pretty unpalatable:
>Kill all non-whites
vs
>Let private wealth run rampant through govenment

Fascinating politicians the both of them, however (though as a legislator Clay was unquestionably superior, he just didn't know how to become _popular_ while doing so, which is why he was never able to actually beat Jackson in national elections).

That problem is caused and explained mostly by our voting system. Everyone is so caught up in their own lives, and civic duty has become essentially meaningless in this day an age, that they generally don't bother going through the specific, finicky primary process to choose a more suitable candidate. It's genuinely easier for most people just to go with the most well known figure on the ballot.

I'll post a couple videos about the problems with FPTP and what I wish we replaced it with (at least for electing the House of Representatives):

youtube.com/watch?v=s7tWHJfhiyo

youtube.com/watch?v=QT0I-sdoSXU

For the Senate I'd actually like to see the state legislatures nominate/elect a Senator, so a Senator was actually representing the State as they're meant to.

A more proportional system among the House would break the two-party choke hold--which is probably part of why our voter turn out is always so low; why vote when your voice isn't going to matter at the ballot box?--and push us towards more healthy politics.

Now I want to get into a BLM argument just to be a cheeky cunt (or at least point out black on black crime and black abortion rates, but I digress).

It also doesn't help that most of our legislatures just try to slap a band aid on a problem--especially in today's era of soundbite politics--without digging for the root cause (or even supporting or solving the problems they claim to care most about, but that's just politicians being politicians). It's a mess.

Clay proving that shitskins have been the sledgehammer of big capital for millenia. Then a hundred years later when slavery is over, poor whites get blamed for it.

Also this dude, Jesus Christ.
>Rich people you aren't related to did some really bad things in the past, so now you gotta live in squalor and eventually get killed to make up for it because your skin kind of looks like them. And don't talk back about it, or we'll make life even worse for you.
And people wonder why there's a renewed interest in National Socialism.
I gotta get out of this country man.

>Clay proving that shitskins have been the sledgehammer of big capital for millenia.
What? What do you mean by "sledgehammer of big capital"?

>It also doesn't help that most of our legislatures just try to slap a band aid on a problem
Yuuuuup. Certainly has NOTHING to do with the fact that statistically the fastest way in this country to become a millionaire is to get elected to public office.

I am not a conservative voter, and agree with the rest of the world in their evaluation of Trump's qualification for office, but that "drain the swamp" slogan WAS spot on (if only that had any intention of actually doing that). Federal politics is FUCKED because of the sheer magnitude of how many politicians are bought and paid for by corporations. I mean, you realize that like... Trademark laws are straight written by Disney? If you want to have a bad time, look up the history of trademark and public domain laws. Look at when they come up, when they're modified, and how much lobby money Disney put into the politicians that wrote and promoted those changes. It's fucking nauseating. There is a ton wrong with this country and I personally don't think there is any more responsible starting point for blame than the incestuous relationship between corporate and political America.

WHITES ARE GOING EXTINCT REEEE
>aaaaaa

There is a difference between immigrating and conquering.

>dispelling racism
I think you mean proving racism. Literally every non-white country is a shit hole with a thin veneer of tourism polish in the popular areas. Every new country I go to I hope to be pleasantly surprised, and every new country further disappoints.

Just look at the curve it is starting to level out in 2010. These things are never accurate.

Not the guy you were arguing with

>Very few groups have done this with such success
I sense resentment in this. Do you resent the west for being among the most successful?
What about the Chinese?
>or genocide
The Arabs would like to have a word with you. Same for the Mongols and various other Turkic peoples. Or rather, their victims would. Not saying that the Europeans dundu nuffin wrong, but saying that they’re the worst is incorrect

>at no point was it a “war” by European standards
The various Indian wars may not have been European style wars, but they were nonetheless wars, ones that were rarely won easily.
Also, comparing the casualties of a single battle to total population decline, which was largely caused by disease (which in turn was largely spread unintentionally) is a false equivalence if I have ever seen one.

I mean, I've traveled to the Philippines, Ireland, Italy, Turkey, Argentina, and Tahiti and all of those places are rich with culture with wonderful people, wonderful history, and wonderful food and music.

I'm not sure what else you want, but if you're THAT staunchly a bigot, I'm not sure what can salvage you.

I don't know your religion, but I am guessing it is some form of Christian, right? Quick answer, this world is not our true home. We are clearly in the End Times and all of the demographic shifts won't really matter in the long run anyway. Keep focused on the news in the Middle East and regarding Israel. It appears that we are close to the fulfillment of prophecies like Ezekiel 38 and Isaiah 17 at some point in our lives. Second Coming seems on the horizon. Your true brothers and sisters are those who share your faith as a Christian, not someone with the same ethnic background. Remember, if you were in an old time Communist gulag, it would be white atheists killing you because your faith transcends your race. Pray for God to not just give you a love for others because it is politically correct to do so, pray for God to open your eyes to the reality of the times we are in and how close we are to His return. God might bring you a spouse or significant other of another race too and that tends to change your whole perspective of people as a whole when you fall in love. God bless OP and keep focused on the Kingdom and not our temporary time on this fleeting world.

For your information, the true “white ethostate” alt right hate the Republican Party. You seem to be under the impression that they support them.

>I sense resentment in this
That's projection. Genocide is never good, but Europeans committing it is no worse than anyone else committing it. I mean look at the history of Cambodia and you'll find some seriously heinous shit. But it IS undeniable that western Europe has been the most successful. There is a reason european languages are spoken more places in the world than any other language.

>but saying that they’re the worst is incorrect
I don't know how to answer that other than "false". There has been more genocide at the hands of European cultures than any other area. Remember you have to lump _all_ European cultures together (spanish, protugese, french, english, swiss and so on). Genocide is not a European specific problem though, you're totally correct on that.

>they were nonetheless wars
I guess if you're not familiar with US history, you might think this. They were difficult because of the Native American style of confrontation, NOT because the European settlers were ever at any threat of actually _losing_ them. Europeans vastly outnumber, out armed, and out supplied the Native Americans in almost all but the earliest confrontations. They were only drawn out because "God damn it, we really have to scour every one of these hills and valleys on horseback looking for these damn savages to shoot? UGH!"

Pretending these were wars fought by even sides is hysterically ignorant.

>is a false equivalence if I have ever seen one.
It was to make a point, but I guess that doesn't matter when:
>(which in turn was largely spread unintentionally)
You're just outright lying about the above / have no idea at all what you're talking about. The weaponization of diseases against native americans is INCREDIBLY well documented. You would literally have had to not read anything past highschool US history to not know this.

Though I guess that explains a lot about your post.

Not him, but you ever stray very far from the tourist areas? Not to mention that all of the counties on this list are fairly nice ones. Incidentally that is evidence against his statement, as Turkey is most certainly not white (and neither is the Philippines), but I digress.
Not to mention, you don’t know what countries he’s been to. I doubt that visiting a place like the Congo is likely to change any minds.

Have you been anywhere outside tourist areas in Philippines, Turkey, Tahiti, Argentina? Your list of countries sounds like an instathot's bucket list, jumping from resort to guided tour. Very friendly people, always wanting to separate you from your tourism dollars.

Music and food doesn't mean anything if the people never accomplished anything past that.

>I doubt that visiting a place like the Congo
Yeah I mean I have no idea what the Congo is like. Traveling through africa, given how fucked ALL of those countries are politically, seems sketchy for sure. I've also no doubt that you could find some chill as fuck little villages though, and that was my point.

As for:
>but you ever stray very far from the tourist areas?
Yeah, I lived for 6 months on Cebu island about a hour south of Bogo (largest city near us).
In Italy, I was in Civita di Bagnoregio for about 2 months staying with a family there.
In Ireland I was on the Dingle Peninsula for about a month, but that's a western european nation so even though Ireland is a little poorer than others, I don't think it's a big surprise that their rural areas are still pretty nice.

I would call all of those areas pretty rural though, and they all had chill as fuck people. Philippines especially was amazing. Kids there free dive for like 6 minutes at a time (I can hold my breath underwater for like 1) and they just trade shit they find. I bought a soda (just a coke I think) one day, and while walking home got stopped by like five 11 year olds who wanted my coke and offered me an octopus... I agreed and ate that thing for dinner. Not a huge fan of octopus but who can hate an area with people that chill?

>Music and food doesn't mean anything if the people never accomplished anything past that.
I mean, it's enough to consider the people not worth hating? Are you saying that any country that doesn't have a space program should be considered a waste of space? I mean I'd take the Philippines or Tahiti over going to Russia or something. Russia seems way sketchier to me, but that's because of the current political climate, not because Russians are inherently any more terrible than we are.

Hate? I just consider them inferior. They can sit in their hovels and eat rats and dirt pies, but they are certainly not my equal.

Cool, kids in some bumfuck village in the Philippines can hold their breath for 6 minutes. Clearly these are accomplished people. Do you not see the outsized value of an octopus over a can of mass produced soda?

And your selection of countries reinforces my point - you refuse to go to places you're not comfortable with, because you're afraid your worldview will be broken. Go to Russia. Go to Africa.

>that’s projection
Not sure where you’re getting that from
Not did I every deny that European cultures were very successful.

>you’re not very familiar with US history if you think this
Never did I claim that the sides were even. Stop strawmaning.
And to claim that they weren’t wars is ridiculous. The fighting went back and forth, and the Europeans were pushed back from time to time. They were quite often at risk of losing territory because they did lose territory. They usually took it back fairly quickly, but that doesn’t change the fact that they list it.
>Europeans vastly outnumbered...
Yes, that’s correct in the grand scheme of things, but only rarely did the Europeans apply their full strength to the conflict. Usually, the Europeans were tactically outnumbered, and it was their side that dealt with supply problems more often.
>”they were only drawn out because...”
Firstly, your statement reeks of bias.
Secondly, those tactics do not make the situation not a war. The Natives chose the ideal strategy for their situation and it shows.

>well documented
Yes, it is well documented, but the earliest recorded instance if it occurring (that I can find) was more than half a century AFTER the timeframe you cited.

You seem to have a penchant for calling everyone who disagree with you ignorant. Maybe, if you want to convince people, not insulting them is a good start.

>because you're afraid your worldview will be broken. Go to Russia. Go to Africa.
There is a large difference between "going somewhere unsafe" and "going somewhere to expose yourself to other countries. Telling a South Korean person "expand your horizons and go to North Korea you fucking pussy", or telling a Chinese Person in WW2 "Just go to Japan, expand your world view" is an extremely retarded sentiment.

>Cool, kids in some bumfuck village in the Philippines can hold their breath for 6 minutes.
>but they are certainly not my equal.
What? What are YOUR accomplishments, because I'm pretty sure you weren't the one who developed the automobile or modern computers. You're deliberately taking European accomplishments (note: not YOUR accompishments, you're more likely than not relatively worthless as an individual) out of context.

People from those cultures and countries that go through esteemed educational programs perform just as well as europeans that do. It's not the people, it's the resources available to those people that is creating that divide.

>And to claim that they weren’t wars is ridiculous
I guess this comes down to the fact that I don't consider the New England Patriots gearing up against a single paralyzed 5th grader to be "An NFL Football Game". The sides were relatively that equal.

If you consider that sporting, then we can leave it at that.

>Maybe, if you want to convince people, not insulting them is a good start.
I have been very receptive to people who aren't hostile when confronted with facts. We both know Jow Forums isn't the optimal forum for actually changing minds. You hate brown people and I don't. We're both going to leave this conversation exactly how we came into it. Most I can hope is that some of the earlier folks in this thread actually go and read some of the works I recommended.

>the earliest recorded instance if it occurring (that I can find) was more than half a century AFTER the timeframe you cited.
There are easily accessible primary sources (letters) originating during the colonial era. I have a few books around here about colonial (pre-revolution) america...

The only one I seem to be able to find at the moment is... pic related. It doesn't go into native americans a ton (other than citing primary sources that celebrate all the "empty" land to the west, and that one could even make extra money while settling it by selling the scalps of bears, wolves, and -natives-). Still a decent read though, even if it gets dry in the middle with all the specifics about Joe Random's Glass Factory in Pennsylvania. You can just aim for the beginning and the end of most chapters for the interesting overview bits.

Attached: CC.jpg (802x600, 95K)

Anyone with two brain cells to rub together can probably figure out a whole animal is worth more than a can of soda.
>but they're so chill lmao smoke some weed d00d

GG equating Russia to DPRK, I think we're done here. You're clinically retarded.

>resources
lmao Africa is full of resources, and none of them figured out how to extract value from it.

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Your hypothetical scenario may not be “an NFL football game”, but it’s still a football game. The fight doesn’t have to be fair to it to be a fight, and the Amerindians were no pushovers. They fought hard, they fought smart, and they made the conquest of them a most difficult one.
Was World War II not a war because Germany was almost guaranteed to lose in the long run?

>accusing me of racism
Funny how you project that on to me. I have not said one thing that would lead you to believe that, unless you’re falling to your own preconceived notions.

>there are easily accessible primary sources...
And the one you provided does not appear to have any evidence to back up your claim. A cursory google search for documented instances of intentional spread of disease to the Amerindians returns examples from the mid 1700s onwards. None from earlier.