Trying to escape inceldom

>feel worse
Bro. You are a man. You dont need appreciation from anybody to feel well. That is just insecurity / neediness and that is like repellent against women.

You have to love yourself before anybody can love you back.

>therapist made me feel worse
Maybe you need to feel worse before you get to feel better? Maybe your theraphist sucks ass? Why do you think anybody here can decide for you?

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not worth another thread so I'm bumping with my own whine

today I woke up covered in jizz like a fucking horny tween after my 4th day of nofap. to top it off, I dreamt of having sex with my mom
up to this day, I never had interest in sex. I considered myself celibate by my own volition. now I know that changed
I don't want to be a stud. I don't want to drill any random hoe that crosses my path. I want to get laid with someone as clueless and autistic as me that loves and understands me. I don't want a quick release, I've been masturbating for a long time and that doesn't cut it: I want the whole ritual, as corny as it is

how does an insecure momma's boy neet like me manages to fuck?

I like how this is worded, but I feel like it's just a weird way of saying "nobody will care about you until you do things that please them, and people only want you so long as they get things out of you". How do you reconcile with this and officially move past it? Simply "not caring what other people think" is not that easy when people are wired to be socially accepted and cared for, but society denies it to you because of some possibly warped sense of "manning up".

There is no way to deal with it if you're socially-minded. Your only options are 'not care' and live isolated or 'care' and live forever trying to please others.
There is a random lottery-tier chance you encounter a supportive and mutually beneficial group of friends and somehow manage to stay together without much need of outside influences but that's almost certainly not going to happen after college at the latest.

Generally men who can afford to pay for the date have sex.
glassdoor.com/
Also question
>so what do you do for a living
Is probably the second question in literally every single social settings right after
>whats your name?

Stop overthinking, drink alcohol, ask women you see for their phone numbers.
STOP OVERTHINKING. Better yet: stop thinking altogether. Your brain works against you.

>live isolated
Men aren't islands, at least they aren't supposed to be. If I do go the loner path which to be honest, I'm heading down regardless (because nobody wants me)

It's just really, really hard for me to look at myself and say I'm not good enough, but deep down i know I'm not. I've known this for years. We all know what people mean by "loving yourself". They mean, do specific things that make other people find you attractive. The route of "not caring what others think" doesn't work if you're trying to be a NEET. People like people who "care about themselves", if by caring about yourself you mean being in great shape, being positive, uplifting, and always making others feel good. I mean, no shit right? But it also means far less people care for you when you're down. They see you as a car with a check engine light - they'd rather trade you in for something new and shiny than fix what they have. It's in the nature of people, most if not all, to behave in this very selfish, self-serving way.

>STOP OVERTHINKING. Better yet: stop thinking altogether. Your brain works against you.
>just drink and smash
Probably a bad idea for someone like me who's a virgin, I'm pretty sure I'd just get wildly attached to whatever girl I sleep with and mindfuck myself even further into marrying her/getting really deep into it, all the while not even being that happy.

It's only going to get worse, too. The internet, mobile phones and the ridiculous population explosion have created the current situation and they're not getting any less involved.

somebody explain what this means. last I checked, it took two genders to reproduce.

For every man that reproduces, one point four women do. If you can't figure out the next logical step then you're probably not old enough to be here.

Proofs?

given that the other guy said nothing like what you interpreted it as, I have a feeling that you are suffering from some kind of paranoia, coupled with depression. or maybe just depression? The guy just said that you have to love yourself. that is the opposite complete of "do things for others".

and, why is it so alien to people that most people won't do anything for you, if you have not, or will not, do anything for them? other than your parents, and your dog, when was the last time you got anything for free? And, even your parents and your pets get something out of caring for you.

So, you would rather live on charity? waiting for someone to feel pity for you, and be nice? why not earn someone's affection and trust? why not be a person who deserves to be wanted, because that way you don't have to worry about your love being randomly taken away. if you are boring, why should people struggle to entertain you? if you are shabby, why should people drag you out to someplace nice? if you are weird and self centered, why should people put their own desires and aspirations aside, and serve you? you clearly are not doing that, for them

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2833377/
Looks like it's actually 1.3 for Europeans and 1.1 for Asians (who cares about niggers).
History: psmag.com/environment/17-to-1-reproductive-success

This is why that guy said that you need to love yourself. this does two things:
first, why should you love yourself? why love anyone? you need to figure that shit out! are you funny? do you have interesting skills? can you hold interesting conversations, or make people feel calm? What do you do, for yourself, by yourself, that is worthwhile and satisfying? because THAT is what you have to offer someone else. Not bullshit, like what media you consume. watching anime and playing video games is not a personality trait. what do you DO in those games. what do you THINK about those movies. do you collect weird games, or thoughtful movies? Why do you care about what you care about? that is why you can feel proud of yourself, and what you have to offer someone else

>who cares about niggers
and shit like that is why white people are dying, and don't deserve to be saved. Fuck you racist fucks, for eternity

Have you tried a hooker? If not, do that. I know you will roll your eyes or whatever, but it's true. Banging it out a few times will give you confidence, no matter how you paid for it. Get a hot one, it's your money.

lol

so... we are near 1:1 parity? how am I supposed to interpret this? this sounds good, to me. especially given that a lot of places in the Middle East and Africa practice polygamy. it makes sense that more women are reproducing than men. It also makes sense because guys are fucking stupid and destructive, so they get killed more often than women. if a the lover/husband of a childless women dies, she can be alone, for a while. But, if your baby-daddy dies, you kind of need a replacement ASAP. and, a big reason for taking on a woman with kids, is that you have hard evidence that she is capable of popping out one, for you

I love how the only solution to most problems in my life is "get a job", yet I get bounced off from goddamn mcdonalds
fuck me, right?

>Your only options are 'not care' and live isolated or 'care' and live forever trying to please others.
It's attitudes like that that make men kill themselves because they figure "if I'm lonely and not being useful and people aren't affirming me then I might as well end it". Isn't the purpose of friend groups that you have people you like to hang around and shoot the shit with without having the pressure of work or even a romantic relationship?

>Maybe your theraphist sucks ass? Why do you think anybody here can decide for you?
It's good to get an outside opinion to let me know if I'm on the right track or I've gotten stuck in my own head.

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The article is interesting but I don't understand how they can infer a modern breeding ratio from the differences between autosomes and the X chromosome.
Either way the numbers make sense. It's common knowledge that males are a "gamble" when it comes to evolution. The human Y chromosome is the fastest evolving chromosome in the human genome, which shows that throughout our history it's always been more difficult for males to reproduce than females (which is fairly self evident and can be observed in almost any animal species).

My man, 1.01 would be near parity. Even 1.1 means if you have, say, 10,000,000 females who reproduce in a given population. You only have just over 9,000,000 males who do. That's a million males who we can assume would want to reproduce but don't. The "incels".

Not incels, more likely men who die before they can reproduce.

I don't see how "nobody will love you until you love yourself" can be read as anything OTHER than "people don't care about you until you're well off, stable and happy".

>why is it so alien
Because I sometimes want to just do things for people, just to be nice or whatever, and not wanting to expect shit back. So when I get told that relationships are all transactional it throws me for a loop.

>waiting for someone to fee pity for you
I want to be accepted by at least some people, for who I am, flaws and all. i don't want to spend the rest of my leaf constantly "working on myself" because I want to be good enough for anyone to ever care about me, only to wind up dying alone.

For what it's worth, my mom doesn't give a fuck about me or my happiness, neither does the rest of my family. All my pets are dead.

>why not be a person who deserves to be wanted
There's plenty of people I want nothing to do with, that have or have had romantic relationships, good friends, promising job prospects etc. If it was as simple as be a perfect person so you're never rejected again, I'd either already be doing that or I'd kill myself.

the other reason for loving yourself is that you have no guarantee that any relationship will go as you want it, for as long as you want it. if you are relying on another person to give you worth, then you will spend a long time being worthless.

your worth needs to come from within. You are not a gold nugget, valuable as soon as it is dug out of the mud. you need to be polished, cut, and set, like a diamond, to be worth anything. You need to value yourself, while all this is going on. You need to be the one polishing yourself, so you need to believe that it will be worth it, eventually.

and here is the real kick in the gut: you can't shirk the work because EVERYONE ELSE IS DOING THIS. that cute girl, reading the interesting book? it took her years to find the kinds of books she likes, to figure out her personal style, to get the confidence to go out and claim her space in public. that Chad? you think muscles fucking grow from sitting around? Everyone is working on figuring out how to love themselves, and how to offer that best image of themselves to others. So, they are working hard, dealing with frustration and disappointment, learning to be grateful for their wins, and you expect them to just throw all that hard work out the window? to take all that they have made and polished, and give it away to someone who has nothing to offer in return?

>so... we are near 1:1 parity? how am I supposed to interpret this?
If the ratio of reproducing women to reproducing men is 1.4:1, that means that for every 5 men reproducing, there are 7 women reproducing. So assuming a 50/50 split between men and women who could potentially reproduce, about 28% of these men never do. But that doesn’t mean that those men don’t have sex or have relationships. It’s just that they don’t ever have kids.

You're saying 10% of the male population dies in gender unique situations (most likely war) before reproducing? Maybe true in 1400, not true now.

Except half the "work" is shallow, vapid shit like being better looking, having perfect teeth, etc.

And this is what most people I meet put forward. They rarely, if ever, display their real self their personality, their deepest fears and insecurities, their most intense passions, their desires and dreams, their sense of humor. And it sucks because you're forced to relate to people based on how white their teeth are, or how nice their skin looks, or how well fitted their clothes are, not who they actually fucking are. You might as well just get a body pillow at that point.

the reason is because you are ashamed of being behind. you need to realize that a lot of men fall behind because of past instances that were traumatizing that hindered your growth. None the less, you need to stop trying so hard to be the perfect Male and chill. You arent meant to be perfect and the right girl will come to you but you need to relax.

>incels
so... I assume gays don't exist.
and... is it a good thing that every man, on earth, reproduce? Nevermind stopping evolution, dead, I am pretty sure being a father involves a lot more than just dumping a load in a woman. if we are going to cry for incels, can we cry for potential fucked up children of the cruel, inept, insane, and apathetic?

and, anyway, I don't think this ration works like that. is it counting mothers? or children born to mothers? if it were individual moms, then we can assume that either these women are sharing men, or that these dads are dying. women, I assume, would come largely from cultures where men are allowed to have more than one wife.

In that case, don't blame the women. blame the men who force this situation on everybody else. Seriously, one of the factors impacting a nation's stability and prosperity is the number of single guys. Progressives want everyone to get laid, because people in loving relationships are better for the world.

>the right girl will come to you
No, she will not, lol

no, they are in a variety of situations. places like the Middle East forbid people from even dating. a man has to get married, before he can have sex. to do this, he needs a job and his own house. imagine how many people on this board would get laid, if we had to own our own homes, first.

then, there are places like Asia, where there are huge gender imbalances. there just aren't enough women to marry every guy. when you are short several million women, that can skew your reproduction ratios

you only ever meet superficial Instagram models? I don't believe you. You are lying. you don't have conversations with people about what they think about politics, or cultural events, or the Marvel movies? Unless you are jet-setting with 1% elites, you are fucking lying

So... I assume lesbians don't exist.
Look at the numbers again. They're split by region and do not include hypergamous cultures. It even states that in the abstract. This is also COMPARATIVE, so only issues that don't affect both genders will have any influence.

It DOES NOT INCLUDE THE MIDDLE EAST in those numbers, hypergamy is NOT part of the study, and Asia has a LOWER B than Europe does.

this attitude is why it won't happen. when you believe that failure is inevetible, you won't try. you won't believe in an opportunity, when one presents itself. Honestly, if you are this negative, you are probably repelling opportunities. when you are bitter and cynical, who would want to hug and kiss you? what do you have to offer, with this attitude?

Incels will forever be incel, because they cuck themselves. You hate the thing that you want. You pollute the water you try to drink. when you call a girl a "roastie" and insist that she is a robot acting on her genetic programming, denying that she is a human and individual... what girl would want to date you?

unemployment in the US is 3%. if you can't get a job then you really need to start trying

It's not that I don't meet people who care about other things, it's that the people I meet prioritize those things. And it's obvious when somebody is trying to doll up to draw in a mate, vs. actually taking care of themselves. Most of the women i meet have thinly veiled insecurity and deeper issues, but dress decently, and act cocky and aloof, and are able to enjoy casual sexual encounters, but rarely beyond that. Call me judgmental, an incel, or whatever but I think it's not normal for such a massive amount of people to be almost entirely unable to function in a stable, healthy, adult, intimate relationship.

You say people don't shirk the work? I'm skeptical of that. I feel like a lot of folks throw all that well-meaning "work" out the window because they're so bent on being with the most attractive person they can find, and twisting themselves into the shape of a pretzel, and ultimately putting up with all kinds of bullshit like cheating or emotional unavailability. Or is three another reason the cute girl at the coffee shop is dating an asshole that uses her for sex, and doesn't give two shits about her book-reading hobby, because he's hot and reminds her of daddy? The real work IMO involves getting yourself to a place where you don't put up with nonsense from shitty people because you can't establish boundaries. Anyone can artificially enhance themselves by working out, or dressing nice, or performing basic social functions.

yeah... yuck it up. do whatever it takes to distract yourself from your falling birth rates and your members hooking up with other races more and more

>this attitude is why it won't happen.
If the residents of New Orleans in August, 2005 just believed in themselves more and weren't so negative, Hurricane Katrina wouldn't have happened.

Sound extreme? Maybe, but the point is some things are just really shitty and out of your control. Being ugly and unlikable as a result is one of those things. People liking you or not at all is frankly, one of those things.

It's arguable though that the reason this happens is because sexual attraction is not logic, nor based on more "virtuous" things outside of raw physical attraction. Deny it all you want, but that sexual attraction is ultimately the catalyst that makes a relationship happen. The women I've met and related to or at least attempted to have made it very clear that there are certain physical and personality traits they look for that they find most desirable. You're either wanted by women or you're not, and it comes down to specific things you do or don't have. It's not as simple as "working on yourself" or "loving yourself", unless by that you mean be naturally outgoing, charismatic, strong, assertive, and preferably tall and handsome.

I'm not american

how is being well off, stable, and happy a bad thing? and how is this something done to serve anyone else? like, if not for cute girls, you would be content to be destitute, unstable and miserable? seriously?

And, I do get random acts of kindness. but, they are random, done on whims and how much surplus goodwill, money, whatever you have to toss around. Relationships are NOT random kindness. they are OBLIGATIONS. you are not nice to your wife because you feel like it, that day. you are nice because it is your duty. you "love" your partner, even on the days that you don't feel like it, because that is what they do for you. and because that is how relationships last. when you are erratic and capricious, you get fucking dumped. relationships are built on stability. and, not expecting to get shit back is how you get taken advantage of. when you are kind to people, and they treat you like shit, if you continue to be nice, then you are an idiot. what you get back is respect and consideration. kindness given is kindness returned. that is the "transaction". if you don't enforce your price, then you get nothing.

look, i could dress this up in flowerly language, but I don't think in those terms. this is how things work. pretty adjectives are nice, but lets be honest, here. ambiguity is not going to save anyone's life. you want something from life. there are others who have that "something" to give, but they want something, too. trade, or get nothing

It's not a bad thing to be well off, stable or happy. It's hard to pull off when virtually nobody really likes you or respects you.

The funny thing is I don't disagree with what you said about being obligated. But the thing is that every woman I've met has had this mentality of "I'll enjoy this while it benefits me and bounce when it doesn't." I'm 100% serious. Every last one is self serving even my mom. None of them ever actually allow "faults" in a relationship. They feel entitled to perfection. They want to have sex with whoever they want whenever they want and never be judged or face negative consequences in general.

When you decide to get fit, you lift weights, and you get fucking exhausted. if you don't do it right, you are in pain, the next day. it sucks. but, it is worth it. when you see those gains. you learn to associate that discomfort with success. because, that is exactly what it is. everything has a cost, but we only look at it as a "cost" because we are lazy. in reality, working out is not a cost, it is a pathway through to a reward. the risk IS the reward.

so, too, with everything in life. you don't "work on yourself", like it is an effort. it is what you do, every day, because you are what you create. right now, you are being bitter, on the internet. you are creating the future, for yourself, right now.

so, you can blame people, blame genetics, blame God, or you can do something different. You can play useless video games, or you can diversify your media consumption. you can go get exercise. you can try cooking better food for yourself. because effort is the reward. Like, you percieve one coming after the other, because your brain organizes events linearly. But, really, one does not exist without the other. Lift a weight, gain some fitness. that weight cannot be lifted, without some effect on your body. you cannot smile and say something nice to another person, without becoming a little more pleasant to be around.

well, that sucks.

just kidding :) I guess I don't know the economic situation, in your country. Honestly, even in the US, jobs are not available in every town.

If working out was so easy, everyone would be doing it.

I wanna lift weights anyways but not for women. Fuck women. Not even literally.

to be fair, it's bad, but that doesn't mean there's zero chance of getting a job and nobody's hiring
I just don't, despite trying. dunno why. maybe it's my resume? maybe I blow the interviews? who the fuck knows
I'm kinda tired of it honestly. I like being a sedentary good for nothing but trying and failing hard feels like shit. I want money and stuff

this is where it is useful to think about relationships as transactions. each person is a store, and the things on their shelves have different prices. but, the prices are not the same, in each store, for each item. some people put a stupid high price on sex. others don't care about sex, but want affection. some people want material wealth, so on. this is how you get women who are happy to suck the dick of whoever is going to give them Emotional and Financial Stability. But, just those two things, because she doesn't price Respect and Dignity very high. She will put up with being beat and cheated on, because she is getting the things she wants, and is paying for them with Sex.

Obviously, every little interaction can't be broken down, this way, but it is a useful model. Why are people friends? because they are exchanging "things" they want from each other. good conversations, camaraderie, loyalty, exciting times, trust, acceptance. when the transactions are unbalanced, relationships are strained.

you have to set your prices high, to chase off the dirtbags who don't have anything you want. Not too high, but just enough. You also have to ENFORCE those prices. someone isn't paying you enough Loyalty? to the curb, they go. someone doesn't value your Kindness? put the toes to that bitch. Just be sure that you are worth it, to someone else. Most importantly, be sure you are worth it, to yourself

>us

it is just a metaphor. I feel you, I don't work out, like I should. that crap is tiring. Besides, I am satisfied with my body, for right now. And I have never had a girlfriend complain, so I think I am safe with slacking off, for a while.

right now, I am focussing on university. Which is what I will be doing, in a little while. I need to get off, here. I have homework and I need to cook dinner

I get what you're saying. But I'm short balding and ugly so nobody is buying what I'm selling. Please don't try to insist otherwise, I've had enough people pretend to be my friend only to end up being backstabbing assholes. I know that nobody actually likes me. I just know it.

What are the numbers for niggers? Im guessing its way higher than 1.4. They are very matriarchal people.

Chad is impregnating many women is what it means

Have you ever slapped Stacey's ass like that?

Your perception is what reality comes.

I was in a similar position to you OP. Graduated uni as a KHV. Last year, I started turning things around and went on a lot of dates, some of which led to sex. I achieved this by joining a dance club (ballroom dancing). Also I started interacting with people more and it helped me get over the exact same problem that you're having where you can talk to women about business but not casually.

But I have another issue now. I really want to get a girlfriend but can't get a girl to commit. I date them for 2-3 months at a time, but it always falls apart. Sometimes its due to early career stress. Sometimes its due to them being stressed because of the masters programme. Lately I started to wonder whether early 20s is just a bad age for an LTR, or whether I'm missing something that doesn't allow for a relationship to last....

1.4 for West African populations which makes sense. Polygyny is way more popular there than other places, though I'm surprised East Asia isn't more biased given the history of concubinage in the region. Polygyny doesn't necessarily mean that men just don't reproduce, it can also mean that the men that would've gotten married at 25 to 23 year old women instead get married at 35 to 23 year old women, and at that point the cycle perpetuates itself. Even in heavily polygynous societies, the majority of men tend to only have one wife.

I agree. Sometimes I feel bad that Europeans are getting demographically swamped by Africans and Arabs but then I see shit like this and I'm glad it's happening.

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God, I wish that were me.