/CG/Christian General - The Memorial of Christ Edition

If God looked around and everything was good, why did he then determine later some things were unclean? Such as pigs, and lobsters, and foreskins? If blood is sacred, and to be poured out to him, why are there animals like vampire bats, mosquitoes, and blood flukes that live entirely off blood? Did they suck plant juices first, and after the flood God changed their natures to feed off blood? If the flood inundated the entire planet, how did cave paintings survive? On what creative day did God create AIDS and Ebola? If God made them, why? They serve no purpose other than to kill. So didn't God either presuppose Ademic sin, or made some harmless virus that mutated to a deadly disease agent, proving evolution? Those were some of mine.

Why did God create the sword, something responsible for bloodshed? Right after A and E were banned from Eden an angel guarded Eden with a sword.

Why do we find writing and language thousands of years before the Tower of Babel? Why do we find them thousands of years before Adam and Eve existed according to the Bible?

Why is it ok to give breastfeed babies but not take a leukocyte infusion? Why is it ok to drink cow's milk if white blood cells are "not for Christians?"

How did Satan being ousted from heaven in October 1914 have anything to do with WWI which was full blown by August?

How did diseases affect dinosaurs if imperfection didn't begin until Adam and Eve?

Why is it just for a nice single mother struggling to feed her kids to face death at Armageddon for an eternity but a thief or abusive individual gets resurrected if he died the day before?

How did Abraham know that it was God speaking to him when asked to sacrifice his son Isaac, since God condemned child sacrifice?

Jesus said no one knows the day or the hour, so why have JWs set so many dates about the end times?

Why is the New World Translation the only bible translation that contains the term "grand master?" (Hosea 12:14 - once with a capital "M," Malachi 1:6 - twice)?

>If the Sovereign issue states that Satan is now in control of earth, why did Jehovah keep on messing with SATANS world? (flood, killed all Satans people. Tower of babel, etc etc)

>flood

The flood was needed because Satan's demons were filling the earth with their abominations of hybrids, nephilim. Half-human, half-angel demigods which would be the source of gods in the future afterwards. Their interference prevented mankind from progressing ON ITS OWN. So the flood was to wipe the earth of those abominations and human followers.

>killed all of Satan's people

Because they were human sacrificing and child sacrificing. True, other cultures did it but those cultures were making it NORMAL so he did it to prevent it from spreading out as A NORM.

>Tower of Babel

The original command to Adam and Eve HAD TO BE FULFILLED. "Spread to all the earth." Nimrod was keeping people from doing that. He was opposing God directly and his fulfillment. So to make his command fulfilled he forced everyone on Earth to speak different languages to make everyone spread out PEACEFULLY without violence or threats from the Babylonians at that time. Also, it prevented humanity from working together too much so they could have invented nukes and pollution WITHIN a century of the Tower of Babel, thus they wouldn't destroy each other too quickly.

Why is it that members of the Governing body made a consiencie matter into an enforced doctrine, in regards to personal grooming?

Why does the Governing Body withhold new doctrine and or literature as a surprise event ?

Would jesus have withheld information and released it at a later time?

Why do you call it "the truth" when referring to the JWs, as if there could be no other opinion?

Why can you be disfwllowshipped for disagreeing with the doctrine?

How old is mankind?

When telling others about the JWs, do you find yourself sugar coating things or flat out leaving things out, why or why not?

Do you really feel safe expressing different views with fellow JWs or even to the elders?

It is often stated that the JWs don't choose people who go to paradise, but that you need to comment in the meetings and go to service to pass on into paradise. Why then, are disfellowshipped people not allowed to do these things?

Is the Governing body indirectly choosing them?

What is the biblical foundation for dressing formally to the meetings and re proving or withholding privileges from those who don't?

Why are pedophilia and past mistakes held against other religions but not the JWs?

Read the BITE Cult model, and compare it to the JWs.

So, depending on what you use for a cubit, the Ark is about 450 feet long, 75 wide, and 45 tall, right? I work best in SI, so lets do a bit of conversion: that's 137.16 by 22.86 by 13.716 metres, right? For ease of calculation, let's call it 140 x 23 x 14. This gives you 45080 m3. One cubic metre of pure water is one metric tonne. Salt water is a bit more dense. Be nice, add another thousand tonnes or so... Ye Arke displaces 46,000 tonnes (101.4 M[illion] lbs). Maybe 46,400 (102.3 M) at max. And I'm being generous. (The reader who knows something about ship-building will also spot a certain minor problem with the above figures. No creationist has ever seen it... in part 'cause if it's corrected, things get worse for Ye Arke.)

Problem 1:

The sheer size. HMS Victory, still preserved at Portsmouth, was 57 m long on the gundeck. HMS Victoria, the last full-rigged 1st rate ship of the line to serve as flag of the Channel Fleet, built in 1859, was 75 m long on the gundeck. And she had a steel frame because the British Royal Navy had found that building wooden ships much bigger than 69 m (225 ft) long was not a good idea because they tended to sag or to hog on being launched. That is, they tended to bend: their bows and sterns tended to stick up out of the water at an angle (that's sagging) - or to bend the other way, the bows and sterns supported by waves but the midships sections out of the water (or at least not as well supported) (that's hogging). Either way their keels tended to crack under the strain.

Even with steel frames, wooden ships bigger than 250 ft (75 m) long tended to hog or sag. Don't take my word for it, look it up for yourself. One possible source: The Wooden Fighting Ship In the Royal Navy, 897-1860, EHH Archibald, Blandford Press, London. Sorry, my copy was published back before ISBNs. Edward Archibald was at the time of writing the curator of the Royal Naval Museum, Portsmouth, England. Or build a wooden boat 250 feet long and see what happens.

>Didnt Satan already Proove he couldnt rule the world?

Yes, but God's prophecy for "the seed" had to be fulfilled so God could properly humiliate and then execute Satan.

>I mean God killed every one because it became to bad? why not end it there? Didnt that show he cant rule and its the end now?

Yes, but God needed to bring in "the seed" to humiliate Satan and then execute him AS AN EXAMPLE to the INVISIBLE world(angels).

>why can you use blood fractions comming from people donating blood?

That's a conscious choice. You bring up good points.

>If Jehovah doenst tempt people with bad things, why did he tempt Abraham to kill his son?

He didn't tempt Abraham he COMMANDED Abraham to sacrifice his son.

>Deuteronomy 21:18-21 Why would a loving God tell parents to Kill their Children for being disobedient?

Because disobeying God fearing/worshipping parents is disobeying God himself which is a blasphemy and crime worthy of execution.

>Then if I was born in that time and I was a disobedient child and I got Stoned to death, I would not get a resurrection. BUT now, since im alive now and if I am a disobedient child, ill ask for forgiveness and be forgiven. How is that loving or make any sense that my everlasting life is dependant on what era I am born in?

Because back then there were VISIBLE miracles available to the Israelite to see and interact with which made disobeying parents, priest, Moses, and prophets INEXCUSABLE. Even after the days of Moses prophets were performing miracles so it was INEXCUSABLE to be disobedient.

>Those in Gehenna/Lake of Fire are destroyed permanently.
>No resurrection for them.

So finally out of this fucking cycle?
Not to sound like a total edgelord but how would I go about reaching that "Gehenna"?

Slow down cowboy, you won't convince him through the internet and you just sound like a nutjob.

Problem 2
Even though it's too big to work, Ye Arke is too small to do its job. Noah was at sea for a year. The Bible explicitly states that he carried food for himself, his family, and the animals. Where did he put it?

Woodmorappe wrote a book called Noah's Ark: A Feasibility Study, published by the Institute for Creation Research, El Cajon, California, (the ICR is not merely creationist; it requires that all who work there take an oath that they feel that the Bible is inerrant, as demonstrated on their web site). In it he calculates that Noah's ark carried 5.5 million kg by weight of animals. I disagree with this figure, as it's much too low, but for purposes of argument I'll use it.

He also estimates that each animal, on average, ate 1/30th of its body weight per day. Ye Arke was at sea for over a year, according to Gen 7 and 8. I'll just use one year to keep things simple and to give Woody as much slack as possible. Wouldn't want anyone to say that I was railroading him.

5.5 million kilos is 5,500 tonnes. Divide by 30 for how much they ate on a day, multiply by 365 for a year... 66,917. Hmm. 67 thousand tonnes of food, by Woody's own figures. But if you remember, we calculated that Ye Arke could displace a max of 46,000 tonnes, or 46,400 if we were being generous. And that included the mass of the boat itself, and the animals. (Archimedes' Principle) Looks like you need at least two Arkes just to carry the food.

So where's the mention of the Great Barge Fleet in the Bible? I once tried to work out just how big an Arke would have had to have been to carry the assorted animals and their food and have space for proper cages and exercise areas so that the animals' muscles don't atrophy... After I got to 900000 tonnes displacement and still hadn't accounted for all the good stuff, I stopped. That's three times the size of a supertanker. Or nine times the size of a nuclear aircraft carrier. There's simply no way that a wooden vessel could ever be that big

Problem 3:

In order to get the mass of the animals down, Woody pared things down. He tried to define 'kind' so as to have, say, one pair of cat-like whatevers, and have all present day cats, from house cats to lions, descendants of that pair. Nice... except that doing it that way requires evolution on a scale so massive and rapid that no evolutionary biologist would dare suggest it. And Woody does that with all animals... It's the only way he could get them to fit.

Problem 4:

Even after he pares down the list (he posits 15,754 'kinds') he still has a problem. In order for there to be physically enough space inside Ye Arke, Woody uses the median to work out the size of cages. He says that if you have hippos, elephants, rats, and dogs, you can use the median size animal and build cages for them, and they'll all fit. The median size, according to Woody, is that of a sheep. Using that, he can shoehorn enough cages into Ye Arke to hold his 15,754 kinds... but only just. And the cages would be sized so that an animal in it would be able to stand up, but not move about... which means it gets no exercise, and its muscles will atrophy. And it won't live to see the end of the voyage. Unfortunately, Woodmorappe can't think of any other way to fit them all in.

[spoiler]Problem 5:

Remember that 67,000 tonnes of food? What goes in must come out... Noah and his crew (all eight of them) are gonna be kinda busy moving that 67,000 tonnes in one end, and removing the whatever amount of tonnes of waste products out the other. Each member of the crew would have about 2,000 'kinds' of animals to feed every day... and remember, some of those, the clean ones, would be in sevens, and the others in pairs. Let's see. 15,754 'kinds' divided by 8 people is a tad over 1,969 'kinds' per person. Number of seconds/day is 86,400.

Noah & Co. had 43.875 seconds per 'kind' per day if they worked continously 24/7 for the year they were at sea to feed and clean 'em. Must've been trailing bloody Cherenkov radiation as they ran about the boat, or at least sonic booms. And, of course, if there were more 'kinds' than Woody's 15,754, Noah & Co. would have had less time per 'kind', while if there were less 'kinds', the hyperevolution problem would be worse.[/spoiler]

>Have lions always eaten meat? Will they eat meat in the Paradise? Then why do they have sharp teeth and claws? What about maggots? Or Vultures? Are they also going to become Vegetarian?

We don't know yet how that will work.

>Why did God create the sword, something responsible for bloodshed? Right after A and E were banned from Eden an angel guarded Eden with a sword.

God didn't create a sword. This is just how Moses described a FORCE FIELD to his people because nobody was scientifically literate to understand a particle field which could stop a physical object.

>Why do we find writing and language thousands of years before the Tower of Babel? Why do we find them thousands of years before Adam and Eve existed according to the Bible?

That's just done on purposely to discredit the Bible. It's also why the Bible is accused of being written AFTER prophecies happen because historians won't allow the possibility of prophecies because they don't want to give divine credit.

Problem 6:

Ye Floode itself. It covered the 'high hills and mountains'. Hmm... Some creationists say that there was massive amounts of mountain building post-Floode, which is why Everest, for example, is as tall as it is. For the purposes of argument, I'll take 'em at their word. How tall were the 'high hills and mountains', though? 100 feet? 1000 feet? 2000 feet? Well, they'd better have been less than 250 feet (75 m), 'cause if you put that much water above coral reefs, the reefs die. (You can check it for yourself.) Every coral reef in the world should be dead... unless Noah carried a few corals with him on Ye Arke, which gives him some extra problems. And which is not supported by the Bible, anyway.

It's easy to work out how much water would be required for a Floode that size. Now, divide the hypothetical height of the mountains by 24 hours and then by 40 days, and you see how much fell per hour in the 40 days and 40 nights... and that's one hell of a lot of water, even if you restrict it to 250 ft extra. I've been in hurricanes. They didn't dump anywhere near that kind of water. Not even within three orders of magnitude. No way a wooden boat's gonna survive that. None. I won't bother go into varves, sandstones, and salt domes...

Problem 7:

Plants. Not only would Noah have had to carry food for all the animals (and, if predators such as tigers were then carnivores, this would include extra animals to furnish food for said predators, while if they were vegetarians, this would require extra fodder and an explanation as to when and why they changed...) but he's gonna have to carry all the various plants as well. All of them. Land plants don't care for major floods, and would all die. Fresh-water plants don't like too much salt, and would all die. Marine plants don't like too little salt and would all die. Estuary plants, who don't care about the salt content, do care about water pressure... and would all die long before the corals (see above) would. After Ye Floode would come Ye Dust Storm, as the wind dries up the mud and blows away the topsoil because there's no ground cover left to preserve it, it's all dead in Ye Floode.

>more worship muh Jew god threads

Attached: CB073A3C-0678-4DEC-A3CC-82C50F218E52.png (730x844, 137K)

Problem 8:

Aquatic life. Gen 7-8 simply does not mention aquatic life, animals or plant. Perhaps fish don't have 'the breath of life', as they don't breathe air, but whales and seals and such do. Did Noah carry whales and seals on Ye Arke, too, and if so were they clean or unclean? (Whales are descended from hooved, cud-chewing animals, and even still have multiple-chambered stomachs, and so should be 'clean'; that's seven of 'em... Seals are dog-likes, so they might be 'unclean'.)

The vast majority of marine animals don't like it if there's too little salt, or too much water pressure, or both; a Floode that could reach above Everest would kill them all. And some marine life loves pressure, and die if there's too little, which creates a different problem (We'll touch upon that later). The vast majority of fresh-water animals don't like it if there's too much salt, and are far less pressure-resistant than marine life (how deep can you go in a lake, anyway?). So Ye Floode would kill them, too.

Worse, the Bible expressly states that all creatures not on board Ye Arke died in Ye Floode. Noah now has to have large aquaria on his wooden barge... I'm kinda curious as to how Noah kept the pressure on the tanks containing the deep-ocean life, so that they wouldn't die from decompression. And how he kept the seven whales happy. Let's see... a tank big enough to hold seven whales, so that they could swim around and use their baleen plates to sift out the plankton. And another tank to grow more plankton for 'em, as seven whales are gonna eat a lot of plankton. Unless, of course, the whales can be convinced to eat hay... I can see it now. No teeth, but eating hay. And, of course, the toothed whales would have to be kept away from the fish tanks, and if the dolphins include a killer whale or two, away from the other whales and the seals... And there had better not be any leopard seals in the seals, for similar reasons. How big is this barge again?

Problem 9:

Disease/parasites. Tapeworm, HIV, leprosy, etc. - they're all living creatures too. If they were not on Ye Arke, they died. Some of them require a living host. Which one or ones of Noah's crew carried herpes, which hookworm, which Ebola? How about ticks, fleas, lice?

Problem 10:

Latent heat of vapourisation. Do you know how much heat water releases when it turns from vapour to liquid? Ever have a steam burn? Consider:

When 1 gram of steam condenses to 1 gram of liquid water at 20 degrees Celsius, it releases 2454 joules of energy.

1 m3 of water is 1,000,000 grams.

The surface of the Earth is 510,072,000 km2 or 510,072,000,000,000 m2 (or, more scientifically written: 5.10*1014 m2.

Thus, if we drop a measly metre of water a day at an average temperature of 20 C (68 F), the amount of energy released is:

2454 joules/g * 1,000,000 g/m3 * 5.10*1014 m3 per day = 1.25*1024 joules per day. That is 2.991*108 megatonnes/day; more than 14 billion nuclear bombs as powerful as those dropped on Nagasaki. Now consider we're doing this every day, for forty days. The pentagon would envy such an arsenal.

Put another way, for every m of water level increase, we have to release 2.454 billion joules/m2 . At a rate of 1 m/day, this comes to 2.454 billion joules/day/m2 or a radiance of 28.4 kilowatts/m2 - roughly 21 times the brightness of the sun! Result: The atmosphere rapidly turns into incandescent plasma incinerating Noah and Ye Arke. Nothing survives, the oceans boil and the land is baked into pottery.

There's more, but this has gotten too long already. Run the calcs for yourself. It's not difficult to do. It's simple. Anyone who takes Ye Arke seriously either hasn't done the math or can't add.

>So finally out of this fucking cycle?

Correct, death is OBLIVION, or nothingness.

>Not to sound like a total edgelord but how would I go about reaching that "Gehenna"?

Willfully acknowledge and reject Christ and his current human representatives trying to reach you.

Attached: 9918d237ca1d1a2702dcfa515b6ab7e9--jw-ministry-public-witnessing.jpg (578x960, 110K)

For Noah's Flood the Jehovah's Witness's give a date of 2370 BCE.

But If this Flood that covered the entire earth really happened, Tell us why the Egyptians have NO record of it. They were building the pyramids at the time of the flood and we have records from them of their kings. Unas is one king who came to power in 2375 BCE and he was King until 2345 BCE when his Son In Law Teti Succeeded him and was King until 2333 BCE They have records of temples they built, Census's of Livestock, Records of the Nile Flooding it's banks, Births, deaths and marriages. But NO record of a global flood. You would think that if the Egyptians were outdoors building the Pyramids they would have at least noticed a global flood, Wouldn't you? But they just kept on with their society and never took notice of it. Maybe the ancient Egyptians had gills and could breathe underwater??

We don't even need to go into the many reasons why a Global flood is impossible, just the fact that the Egyptians have an unbroken verified history spanning the time the flood supposedly happened is enough to show the Noahic flood is a fairy tale. And if that doesn't work, Ask them about the Antarctic Ice Cap.

>Slow down cowboy, you won't convince him through the internet and you just sound like a nutjob.

Let him bump the thread for us.

Attached: DivineNameThroughoutHistory.jpg (1800x890, 277K)

People put out stuff like this where they welcome everyone and yet I never feel particularly welcome by other Christians. Just kind of...tolerated. I'm a Christian but I've felt so strange lately. Like God is calling me someplace else, to do something else. Not to leave Christianity, mind you, but to just pull up stakes and start somewhere new. I can't tell if it's Him talking or just my own hubris and dissatisfaction with some of the choices I've made. I never felt regret until very recently.

Attached: 1456445378688.jpg (1208x280, 103K)

Since the Jehovah's Witness organization currently rejects most of the teachings of its founder Charles Taze Russell (who was president of the organization from 1879-1916), and since they also reject "Judge" Joseph Franklin Rutherford, who succeeded Russell as president from 1916 - 1942, how can we be sure that in 25 more years, Jehovah's Witnesses won't also reject the current president, Milton G. Henschel (1992 - present), as they did Russell and Rutherford?

What kind of confidence can anyone have in an organization that rejected its founder and first two presidents for the first 63 years of its existence? This represents about 53% of the time they have existed!

The Watchtower Society teaches that the 144,000 of Revelation 7:4 is to be taken literally. If chapter 7 of Revelation is to be taken literally, where then does the Bible say that the 144,000 will come from? (See Revelation 7:5-8).

If the soul is the body, why does Jesus make a distinction between the body and the soul in Matthew 10:28?

What is the meaning of Revelation 14:9-11, which says, "... If anyone worships the beast ... he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone ... And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever ...". Where could "anyone" be "tormented ... for ever and ever"?

If there are 144,000 spirit anointed people who have a heavenly hope, and a great crowd of people who have another hope of everlasting life on paradise earth, why does Paul say that there is only ONE hope (Ephesians 4:4), instead of two?

Then come try out us. You have nothing to lose.

Attached: 928516_785642311469041_1567290287_n.jpg (640x640, 136K)

We are told to be witnesses in the New Testament, but not once are we referred to as Jehovah’s Witnesses. Why be called a name "given to you by God," only to change it three more times?

If God gave the JW's the name they now have, were the names they had before wrong?

If they had the wrong names before, what makes them so sure that they have the right name now?

How much does that speak to their credibility?

Zion’s Watchtower society 1884

The People’s Pulpit Association 1909

The International Bible Student’s Association 1914

Jehovah’s Witnesses 1931

Why were they without a name that they believe was divinely given to them for sixty years? Russell never came up with “Jehovah’s Witnesses,” it was a title that he never used or intended to.

Why is it that the teachings of Russell have slowly disappeared? As the founder of this group, shouldn’t he be a cornerstone for what is being taught?

Why isn’t anyone held accountable for the prophecies being spoken?

Why would I want to join a church that was born of lies and confusion? "For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints." I Corinthians 14:33

The Watchtower has the right to make these prophecies (all false so far), but when they claim to God’s only voice on earth, their integrity is destroyed. Why should I believe them, when they have such a bad track record? Lies and suppression of facts are common in politics and business, but one expects to find honesty in those who claim to be speaking for God.

When the organization wrote prophecies in the Watchtower magazine that failed, they use the terminology of "new light" to explain it away.

The concept of New light is taken from Proverbs 4:18

“But the path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day.”

Typical of the JW's almost complete lack of Bible knowledge, this verse is not speaking about prophecy or direct revelation from God, but the righteous man's increasing ability to live a holier life with age and experience.

New Light should not contradict Old Light, but it often does with Jehovah's Witnesses.

The fact that Jehovah's Witnesses actually swallow this "New Light" explanation from the organization when prophecies fail is the ultimate testimony of their blind faith in false human organizations.

We invite all new Jehovah's Witness converts to closely decide for themselves if "New light" adds to "Old Light" or flatly contradicts it.

Will the men of Sodom be resurrected?

Yes

Watchtower 7/18/1879 p. 8

No

Watchtower 6/1/1952 p. 338

Yes

Watchtower78/1/1965 p. 47g

No

Watchtower7 6/1/1988 p. 31

Yes

Live Forever (old edition ) p. 179

No

Live Forever (new edition ) p. 179

Yes

Insight, volume 2, p. 985

No

Revelation book, p. 273

Keep the thread bumped. I'll be right back.

The BITE Model describes the specific methods that cults use to recruit and maintain control over people. “BITE” stands for Behavior, Information, Thought, and Emotional control.

Behavior Control
Promote dependence and obedience
Modify behavior with rewards and punishments
Dictate where and with whom you live
Restrict or control sexuality
Control clothing and hairstyle
Regulate what and how much you eat and drink
Deprive you of seven to nine hours of sleep
Exploit you financially
Restrict leisure time and activities
Require you to seek permission for major decisions
Information Control
Deliberately withhold and distort information
Forbid you from speaking with ex-members and critics
Discourage access to non-cult sources of information
Divide information into Insider vs. Outsider doctrine
Generate and use propaganda extensively
Use information gained in confession sessions against you
Gaslight to make you doubt your own memory
Require you to report thoughts, feelings, & activities to superiors
Encourage you to spy and report on others’ “misconduct”
Thought Control
Instill Black vs. White, Us vs. Them, & Good vs. Evil thinking
Change your identity, possibly even your name
Use loaded language and cliches to stop complex thought
Induce hypnotic or trance states to indoctrinate
Teach thought-stopping techniques to prevent critical thoughts
Allow only positive thoughts
Use excessive meditation, singing, prayer, & chanting to block thoughts
Reject rational analysis, critical thinking, & doubt
Emotional Control
Instill irrational fears (phobias) of questioning or leaving the group
Label some emotions as evil, worldly, sinful, or wrong
Teach emotion-stopping techniques to prevent anger, homesickness
Promote feelings of guilt, shame, & unworthiness
Shower you with praise and attention (“love bombing”)
Threaten your friends and family
Shun you if you disobey or disbelieve
Teach that there is no happiness or peace outside the group

refomatted for clarity

The BITE Model describes the specific methods that cults use to recruit and maintain control over people. “BITE” stands for Behavior, Information, Thought, and Emotional control.

Behavior Control
Promote dependence and obedience
Modify behavior with rewards and punishments
Dictate where and with whom you live
Restrict or control sexuality
Control clothing and hairstyle
Regulate what and how much you eat and drink
Deprive you of seven to nine hours of sleep
Exploit you financially
Restrict leisure time and activities
Require you to seek permission for major decisions

===

Information Control
Deliberately withhold and distort information
Forbid you from speaking with ex-members and critics
Discourage access to non-cult sources of information
Divide information into Insider vs. Outsider doctrine
Generate and use propaganda extensively
Use information gained in confession sessions against you
Gaslight to make you doubt your own memory
Require you to report thoughts, feelings, & activities to superiors
Encourage you to spy and report on others’ “misconduct”

===

Thought Control
Instill Black vs. White, Us vs. Them, & Good vs. Evil thinking
Change your identity, possibly even your name
Use loaded language and cliches to stop complex thought
Induce hypnotic or trance states to indoctrinate
Teach thought-stopping techniques to prevent critical thoughts
Allow only positive thoughts
Use excessive meditation, singing, prayer, & chanting to block thoughts
Reject rational analysis, critical thinking, & doubt

===

Emotional Control
Instill irrational fears (phobias) of questioning or leaving the group
Label some emotions as evil, worldly, sinful, or wrong
Teach emotion-stopping techniques to prevent anger, homesickness
Promote feelings of guilt, shame, & unworthiness
Shower you with praise and attention (“love bombing”)
Threaten your friends and family
Shun you if you disobey or disbelieve
Teach that there is no happiness or peace outside the group

>JW
lol no thanks

Behavior Control - Dictate where, how, and with whom the member lives and associates or isolates

Jehovah’s Witnesses are known for isolating themselves from the outside world, even family members, despite the fact that they don’t live on compounds or in secluded communes. JWs do not associate or make friends with non-JWs and are prohibited from associating with those who have officially left the religion, including family.

While they may have limited association with family who never were Jehovah’s Witnesses, the key word here is “limited.” They may attend a cousin’s wedding or see her new baby, but won’t go out to dinner with that cousin regularly or have her over on the weekends.

Isolation can also happen within the congregations; in this post I bring out how even teens are encouraged to avoid active members who they feel are not doing enough or living up to vague, man-made standards of conduct.

3. When, how and with whom the member has sex

As with many other Christian religions, Jehovah’s Witnesses do not allow their members to have sex before marriage or outside of marriage. This includes sexual behavior such as “manipulation of the genitals” and oral or anal sex. (Keep Yourselves in God’s Love, pp. 97-109)

Oral and anal sex are also prohibited between married persons; these were referred to as “perverted acts” in the March 15, 1983, Watchtower. The True Peace book referred to these as “homosexual forms of intercourse.” (Note the important point here; while most Christian religions forbid sex outside of marriage, Jehovah’s Witnesses dictate details of sexual relations between married persons.)

Pornography is also off-limits to all members, including adults and married couples. Masturbation is also prohibited

7. Financial exploitation, manipulation or dependence

Jehovah’s Witnesses claim that they are different from other religions because they don’t pass a collection plate, however, their magazines often feature outright cash grabs and the begging for slave labor to build their Kingdom Halls, assembly halls, and branch offices; see this post and this post. These buildings remain the property of the Watchtower Society, even though they’re paid for and built by the rank-and-file members.

Their asking for donations could be called exploitation when you consider the December 15, 2013, Watchtower, which said:

“In one very poor country in Africa, some brothers mark off a small section of their garden and use the funds from the sale of the produce from that section to support the Kingdom work. In that same country, a building project was scheduled for a much-needed Kingdom Hall. The local brothers and sisters wanted to assist. However, the project was to be undertaken in the middle of their planting season. Still determined to have a share, they worked on the Kingdom Hall project during the day and then planted their crops in the evening.”

This is despite the hundreds of millions of dollars the Watchtower Society has been earning from the sale of their buildings in New York alone (see this news story).

8. Restrict leisure, entertainment, vacation time

Vacation time itself is not necessarily restricted or controlled by Jehovah’s Witnesses, but many activities are, and others include very strong counsel:

Gambling of all sorts is prohibited among Jehovah’s Witnesses, even in small amounts such as when playing poker with friends. (May 15, 1995, and November 1, 2002, Watchtower). Highly competitive sports are also counseled against; even the game of chess was mentioned in a full article in the March 22, 1973, Awake magazine.

The January 15, 2013, Watchtower simplified edition counseled against recreation that might be taking away from time spent in the preaching work and meetings.

The book Questions Young People Ask speaks of “the dark side” of video games, counseled to keep music “in its place,” said, “Don’t take the matter of choosing a movie or a TV program lightly.” It also gave a list of questions to ask if invited to any gathering where dancing would be involved, including, “Who will be going? What kind of reputation do they have? Who is taking responsibility for the event? What supervision will there be? Do my parents approve of my attending the party? What type of dancing will be featured?”

9. Major time spent with group indoctrination and rituals and/or self indoctrination including the Internet

Jehovah’s Witnesses have reduced the time spent at their meetings, but as of this writing, they have a meeting on Sunday morning, then another meeting one night during the week. They are also told to use another night during the week for Family Worship, or a special night set aside for personal or family study. Just a few years back, this second night per week was spent at yet another meeting.

In addition to attending these meetings, members are pressed to study for them beforehand, meaning reading over the materials that will be discussed at that time. (

Jehovah’s Witnesses are also instructed to read their JW material as it’s released; this includes bi-monthly magazines, tracts, books, and other such pieces. They also have two conventions in the year; this number has also been decreased in the past few years, as it was two small conventions and one large convention just a few years back.

The preaching work of Jehovah’s Witnesses, which they call “field service,” is also a major part of their lives. The average amount of time spent by those in the U.S. in this work is just under ten hours every month, but it’s encouraged to do as much as you can. Most Jehovah’s Witnesses go out in this work every Saturday morning for several hours, and during summer months, they may also go out one night during the week in the evening.

Jehovah’s Witnesses are encouraged to “pioneer,” which may include 30 hours of this preaching work in one month, or 750 hours over the course of an entire year. This number, too, has been reduced in the past years; the monthly activity was at one time 60 hours, and the annual hourly requirement for “pioneers” was 1000. (Note; these actual numbers may change, but the point is that they are encouraged to spend as much time in this part of their indoctrination process as possible.)

fuck your jew god fantasy. fucking goyim

12. Rewards and punishments used to modify behaviors, both positive and negative

Jehovah’s Witnesses can receive public or private reproof for a number of behaviors; public reproof involves a public announcement stating, “So-and-so has received counsel and is showing signs of repentance.” Private reproof means meetings with a panel of elders who ask pointed and direct questions about behaviors, and who give counsel and reprimands.

Jehovah’s Witnesses may face certain restrictions if deemed necessary by elders, such as not being allowed to comment during their meetings or handle certain responsibilities in the congregation.

Ricks-father
An elderly JW in the kitchen to avoid eating with his non-JW son.

Perhaps the most stringent form of punishment that Jehovah’s Witnesses employ is the practice of shunning, which extends even to family members and “young ones.” (See the Shunning category of this site.)

This shunning is virtually all-encompassing; JWs will not speak at all to a disfellowshipped or disassociated person, and may even avoid family functions where such ones will be present. While some minimal contact with close family members is allowed, this cannot include socializing and, in most cases, JWs will not even eat with disfellowshipped or disassociated family members; see the photo above.

It’s also outright encouraged that members shun other members in the congregation if they feel these ones are not living up to certain standards of conduct; this behavior is even taught to teens.

13. Discourage individualism, encourage group-think

One of Jehovah’s Witnesses can be disfellowshipped (excommunicated) for believing or teaching anything other than their official doctrine (Shepherd the Flock of God book).

The May 8, 2003, Awake magazine included an article titled, “Does Christian Unity Require Uniformity?” The article mentioned that Christians were and are allowed to make individual choices about many matters, but also stated:

“… loyal Christians would not insist on their personal rights to the detriment of the consciences of others or at the expense of congregation unity. Nor should they claim freedom of action to do something clearly forbidden by God’s Word. (Romans 15:1; 2 Peter 2:1, 19) Love for God should move us to attune our conscience to God’s thinking. This, in turn, will keep us united with fellow believers.”

Note, too, the beliefs Jehovah’s Witnesses have that take away a person’s individualism, including the direction that women all wear skirts and dresses at meetings and when preaching, that men all be clean-shaven, and the prohibitions against sexual matters even between married couples.

15. Instill dependency and obedience

Obedience to the organization is demanded; the November 15, 2013, Watchtower simplified edition said, “At that time [referring to Armageddon or the end of the world], the life-saving direction that we receive from Jehovah’s organization may not appear practical from a human standpoint. All of us must be ready to obey any instructions we may receive, whether these appear sound from a strategic or human standpoint or not.”

Obedience to the elders in each congregation is also expected. The April 1, 2007, Watchtower contained an article about being obedient to the elders, referring to them as “heavenly gifts to the congregation.” It said:

“Our heavenly Shepherds, Jehovah God and Jesus Christ, expect us to be obedient and submissive to the undershepherds whom they have placed in positions of responsibility within the congregation.”

The article also noted that submission was expected even if members do not agree with the elders:

“What, though, if we are not convinced that in a certain case the elders’ direction is the best way of doing things? That is where submission comes into play. It is easy to obey when everything is clear and we agree, but we will show that we are truly submissive if we yield even when we do not personally understand the direction provided.”

The demand for obedience extends to the family, as women are expected to be submissive to their husbands in all matters, even if he is being abusive in any way. As I bring out in this post, men are told that they have the authority to “correct” their wives with “firmness,” even in matters of how she dresses or wears her makeup.

2. Minimize or discourage access to non-cult sources of information, including:
a. Internet, TV, radio, books, articles, newspapers, magazines, other media
b. Critical information
c. Former members
d. Keep members busy so they don’t have time to think and investigate
e. Control through cell phone with texting, calls, internet tracking

Jehovah’s Witnesses are strongly counseled against reading anything that is critical of the religion, referring to websites and other sources of information as “apostate propaganda.” (Watchtower May 1, 2000, and February 15, 2011)

The book, Keep Yourselves in God’s Love, stated:

“You can also absorb that evil spirit through objectionable literature, pornographic or apostate Internet sites, unwholesome entertainment, and highly competitive sports—really, through anyone or anything that conveys the thinking of Satan or his system.” (Bold added for emphasis.)

Former members are also to be strictly avoided by active Jehovah’s Witnesses, even family. When associating with family who were once JWs, biblical discussions are off-limits.

Members are kept constantly busy in their preaching work, consistent study of literature written by the JWs, weekly meetings, assemblies, and the like. From the April 15, 2015 Watchtower simplified edition:

“Read, study, and meditate on God’s Word, the Bible. Keep praying to Jehovah and keep busy serving him. If you do these things, you can trust that Jehovah will help you to endure all your trials now and any that may come in the future.”

>What the fuck is wrong with me?

>Is this "learned helplessness" or no, it is worse than that, I think...

Abuse is a form of control. It is to break you down so much they can control you without you disobeying. It's all done for control, dominance, and to never think of breaking away. God forbid it was also sadism on you as well.

But that's what happened. You can come to Christ and he will help you.

jw.org/finder?wtlocale=E&docid=101993726&srcid=share

jw.org/finder?wtlocale=E&docid=2019400&srcid=share

Jehovah’s Witnesses outright refer to their religion as “the truth.” The March 1, 2002, Watchtower included a full article titled, “How Precious is the Truth to You?”, referring to their religious beliefs and organization.

The “us vs. them” mentality is also abundant among Jehovah’s Witnesses. Anything outside the organization is referred to as “the world”; note the November 15, 2011, Watchtower simplified edition, “Temporary Residents in a Wicked World,” which referred to Christians living in “Satan’s world.”

The book Keep Yourselves in God’s Love, pages 50-61, instructs on “How to Keep Separate From the World.” It states:

“Its influence often begins subtly, perhaps by way of associates who may appear to be good people but, in fact, have no love for Jehovah.”

Use of loaded language and clichés which constrict knowledge, stop critical thoughts and reduce complexities into platitudinous buzz words

The loaded language of Jehovah’s Witnesses is abundant; please visit their website, JW.org, and search for any of these terms to see how they are used. They refer to their religion as “the truth” and anything outside of their religion as “the world.” People who are not JWs are referred to as “worldly.”

Jehovah’s Witnesses often state that we are living in “the last days,” meaning a time when god will soon step in and destroy those who are not Jehovah’s Witnesses. The entire political and economic structure outside of the religion is referred to as “Satan’s system of things” and the paradise they have promised their members is called “the new system.”

The governing body of Jehovah’s Witnesses refers to themselves as “the faithful and discreet slave” and congregants are called “sheep,” with elders and others in authority called “shepherds.” Those who do not listen to Jehovah’s Witnesses are often called “goats,” and when such ones try to refute their teachings, JWs are told that it doesn’t matter if they cannot answer them as they are looking for “honest-hearted ones” who will receive their preaching.

The terms “brighter light” and “new light” are also commonly used to explain why their governing body needs to change their teachings and doctrines. Their teachings and literature are also commonly referred to as “spiritual food.” Other religions are referred to as “Christendom” and are outright called “false.”

Loaded and misleading language is also often used when talking about the positions of husbands and wives in a family. As brought out in this post, a woman who is not submissive to her husband is accused of “competing” with him, leaving no room for a simple equalizing of roles between them.

Why? You have nothing to lose at this point?

Attached: 11179378.jpg (200x287, 27K)

One distinct area where Jehovah’s Witnesses have placed blame on members is their failed prophecies; Jehovah’s Witnesses have made direct statements regarding the end of the world as taking place in 1914, 1925, 1975, and before the end of the 20th century. After this end failed to come, their literature stated outright that the problem was the “inflated” imaginations of members (Watch Tower 1976) and stated that “his own understanding was based on wrong premises” (July 15, 1976, Watchtower).

Fear is a very common theme among Jehovah’s Witnesses and their teachings, even if they try to “candy coat” this fear in various ways. Consider:

The July 15, 2006, Watchtower referred to the “trap of independent thinking,” as applied to questioning the changes in doctrine over the years. The Worship God book decried the “independent” attitude of “the world,” listing it in the same paragraph as “immorality and violence.” The same book also said, “We should not think that we can figure out everything by independent research.”

The December 15, 2013, Watchtower talked about “newspaper headlines, television documentaries, and Internet Web pages” being used to propagate untruths, and said that those who believe them were “gullible.”

Anyone and everyone outside of Jehovah’s Witnesses is referred to as “the world.” The world is often depicted as being controlled by Satan; note what is said in the God’s Love book:

““The world” Jesus mentioned refers to all of mankind who are alienated from God, ruled by Satan, and enslaved to the selfish, prideful spirit that emanates from him.”

I'm from the other thread, looking to not be broken
that said... I've been told JW is uh, well.. it has a bad reputation.
I'm not trying to be totally closed off I am just letting you know that out of all the denominations I know of JW is the one I am most afraid of and least interested in.
Now, that said, I would like to hear your case for it, or... if you'd like to share with me why you think it is the right way or helpful for someone in my situation, I will try to be open minded.

One teaching that I would think would make a group cult-like or abusive is if they feel the organization should come above all else, even the health and safety of its members.

Before their official policy was rewritten in 2010, parents were outright forbidden from calling the police in matters of child sexual assault, so they wouldn’t bring reproach on the organization. Women in abusive marriages are encouraged to stay so that the man gets a “witness” and hopefully converts to the religion.

Children in the religion are strongly encouraged to give up higher education in favor of preaching and missionary work, or unpaid volunteer services at one of their branch offices or headquarters (May, 2010, Kingdom Ministry).

Perhaps one of the most obvious cases of putting the organization above everything else when it comes to being one of Jehovah’s Witnesses is the practice of disfellowshipping, or excommunication, and the all-encompassing shunning that goes along with it. Despite the claim that the religion builds strong family bonds, this practice is based on the flimsiest of scriptural applications and outright misquotes, and yet members will shun even their own children who are still living at home or their elderly parents and grandparents.

When a family member is shunned, their extended family (children, grandchildren) are also typically shunned along with them, even if these ones were never Jehovah’s Witnesses in the first place.

Can you give me a quick rundown on why I should avoid JW?
I had a girlfriend who grew up JW and it left a bad impression.
What do you suggest instead, Scientology? They're all bad...
For someone like me, looking for a place of belonging and a community and structure (but I don't think I want JW, too sketch).. what would you recommend?
Because I honestly just want to be non-denominational Christian the book itself is enough for me, it is the community and having people around me who believe in me, that is what I desire.
Or I need to learn to believe in myself and that is why I am here, I think.

>I've been told JW is uh, well.. it has a bad reputation.

Not surprised. "Doth protest too much." The biggest complainers about us usually have the most to hide about us. Why are you letting other people make up your mind? Why not find out for yourself? I'm here and I can answer your questions. I'm the only one that currently cares at the moment.For crying out loud, of all the religions that just saved you guess what thread I just pulled you out of?! LOL!!>out of all the denominations I know of JW is the one I am most afraid of and least interested in.

Of course you are! That's because we are the truth and you have been conditioned to stay away from us at all cost. That's because nobody wants you to find the truth or speak it. AKA The Emperor's New Clothes.

>if you'd like to share with me why you think it is the right way or helpful for someone in my situation, I will try to be open minded.

Because we are the only ones that use the Bible. That's why. That's what people don't want you to know. We don't follow "Sacred Traditions" or the Man-made doctrines of the other religions. We follow the Bible only. We use the Bible with God's holy spirit as help to help people like you. That's what the enemies don't want you to know.

Attached: Creationbook.jpg (600x600, 85K)

God bless the religious anons making an effort. I get depressed sometimes thinking how much Christianity has been weakened by (((them))).

Jow Forums is truly misguided.

>Because I honestly just want to be non-denominational Christian the book itself is enough for me, it is the community and having people around me who believe in me, that is what I desire.

>(Matthew 7:21) “Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will.

>(2 Timothy 3:5) having a form of godly devotion but proving false to its power; and from these turn away.

The problem is that God doesn't approve of ALL denominations. ONLY ONE! Non-denoms are not approved of by God because they won't teach the Bible nor use it. They want to stay as bland as possible so ANYONE passing by can fit in.

It's hard to say what kind of mental condition OP is in right now, considering he makes these JW threads on Jow Forums he's probably feeling extremely confident in his religion, much like I was 15 years ago.

But I know from personal experience that eventually the defense falls, doubts seep in and you start to dig a little deeper, ask questions and notice signs of cult behaviour. Hope you get out before they take too much from you, OP.

It is by all definitions a cult. I don't use the word lightly, because if it was wrong, I would be laughed at.

I was brought up as a JW for the first 20 years of my life, for that reason I wouldn't recommend any other religion, it left an awful taste in my mouth.

I wouldn't know what to suggest for a place of belonging and community, I've never been to a traditional church before, only to the JW cult. If you did want to try JW just be extremely careful, like I've outlined above, their teachings will mean shunning non believers, worldly people, attending congregation three times a week, etc. until you're left completely lonely and without any enjoyment in life, with less than whatever you have now, it's designed to leave you with nothing to turn to but the religion.

I know you're right... the kind of trauma she went through and the desperation her parents felt, I would not wish that on anyone.
I must be really desperate to even be talking to a JW.
Btw any spook/CIA shit related to JW because a lot of these evangelical denominations are literally feeders for glow in the dark stuff be it domestic abuse within families and stuff, to overseas missionaries, to uh... well I don't want to tell you what I know but lets just say JW is CIA connected I pretty much know, they're getting information from the US State Dept and looking for foreign language speakers/citizens of foreign/hostile nations and trying to convert them and send them back to cause problems.
China, Middle East, Venezuela, etc
I'd love to hear your thoughts on the spook aspect of JW if you are comfortable talking about it. If you are not... just tell me you are not comfortable and I can read between the lines and will assume it is even worse than I suspected.

am I missing something here?

I honestly don't mind this one here's presence. Look at what this person just admitted. They left BUT now have nothing. That's not "The Cult's" fault. That's THERE OWN! Ask him why he found nothing and continues to orbit around his former religion so much?

People all around the world leave religions all the time but find something else. I'm a former Catholic and former dabbler in the occult. Why is it people like me FIND the truth but he doesn't? That's because he LEFT the truth.

The reason EX-JW leave to "nothing" is not because "The Cult" or "The Watchtower" are controlling them. It's because they know the truth and have nowhere else to go. That's why when you ask them for an alternative they have none not even for themselves. It's like a homeless person telling you which stocks not to invest in. What business does a homeless person have advising you?

I don't know anything about the CIA or spook stuff, sorry, I actually haven't heard much about that myself

You really can't see it? OP's pic and right above it.

I must have poorly explained myself. I left the religion and now lead a much richer and happier life.

to be fair I wasn't considering Satanism I just think it is interesting as he breaks people down into clay (allegedly that is the archetype) to mold them in his image
and despite feeling broken and like clay I am very selfless and have no desire to do the satan thing.
I'll think on what you say but, I'm sorry I can't promise anything.
I do have one question where does JW stand on the third temple stuff? All the evangelicals just seem like death cults, from my perspective
satan may just be a reflection of nature while god transcends nature into a more noble existence. would you agree that satan is the god of the natural world (biology, animal kingdom, etc... humans are the only ones that have a connection to God?)

here in the states they literally have addresses of people coming over recently from these countries and they go to your house (not just door to door) and try to recruit and yea even if not CIA they're useful and it is getting to the point where ANY christian missionary working overseas is basically an agent of the military industrial complex whether wittingly or not.

No you did not explain yourself poorly.. you said that JW is like a cult in that they isolate you from non-members and they leave you so dependent and isolated that when you leave, you feel like you will have nothing.

Well thats pretty much it. If my parents were more dedicated to the religion, it would mean they would shun me until I come back to the religion.

Imagine that huh? Losing my parents over a stupid religion.

It makes me sick to imagine, or how sad it is knowing my parents won't accept a blood transfusion that would save their life.

>I do have one question where does JW stand on the third temple stuff?

That would be God's spiritual temple now lead by Christ and his anointed class of Christians going to heaven and ruling along him. That temple has an "inner temple" that only the high priest can enter like in the Israelite days. Only God's annointed class enter into that area. The ancient temple of the Israelites also had an "outer temple" where women, non-Levites, and gentiles could worship. That is where all other Christians on earth are going.

>All the evangelicals just seem like death cults, from my perspective

They are death cults because they promise release of all misery, pain, injustice UPON DEATH. The Bible teaches that death is God's enemy. He doesn't like it. Your solution ISN'T DEATH, it's RESURRECTION! That's what the Bible teaches. That's what the OTHER churches refuse to teach. They won't teach about THE RESURRECTION which is instead just clean up the earth of all pain, injustice, and pollution and bring back to life anyone who died from it. Pic related is what's about to happen.

>would you agree that satan is the god of the natural world (biology, animal kingdom, etc... humans are the only ones that have a connection to God?)

No, Satan is an ACTUAL PERSON. He's a fallen angel who is half responsible for all the pain and misery on earth. He is the true ruler of this planet currently. He is about to be dethroned though.

>you said that JW is like a cult in that they isolate you from non-members

Ironically, that's actually what a Christian is SUPPOSED TO DO. That's Biblical. A person who has decided to become a Christian MUST CUT OFF all ties with non-Christians and counterfeit Christians. That even includes family members if they oppose you. The other churches won't do that nor show that because they would lose converts if they taught that truth.

JW are not capable of isolating you. That's impossible. If you know of Scientology then you know they have bunkers, bases, and locations of isolation all around the country for the purpose of isolating people so they can start the indoctrination without outside influence. If JW had such a system you would know about. You would be able to go to them and see them with binoculars and then get kicked out by "security." We have no such system.

JW choose themselves to cut themselves off from "bad associations" who interfere or oppose becoming Christians and followers of Christ.