>Whatever happens, the Tory party is destined to become the Brexit party. But that means a more overt working class-middle class alliance [...]. That means: market-friendly but social democratic in economics, broadly liberal in politics and somewhat conservative in social and cultural matters. ... >But a low immigration, high-ish public spending party that throws money at universal credit, builds more social housing and nationalises social care (to save middle class people having to sell their houses) would be a potentially popular British version of Christian Democracy, speaking for the suburbs, smaller towns and countryside. ... >Meanwhile, the more socially liberal voting bloc based in London, the metropolitan centres and university towns will be divided between some version of the old Blair/Cameron status quo – a Chuka Ummuna/Nick Boles double act – and the new model Labour party which will be aggressively “woke” socially and statist in economics.
>Curiously, this leaves little room for the old Thatcherites who occupy the free market, low tax, pro-business but socially traditionalist corner of the graph, what one might call the golf-club voters. They might have to vote for the Nigel Farage party. The other disenfranchised group is young people who are militant about sex and race equality but don’t like a big state and high taxes. ... >A new grand constitutional settlement, including greater representation for English voters and a reconsideration of PR-type voting systems, would hasten bottom up reform but does not seem imminent.
>Yet it seems pretty obvious that our two party, first-past-the-post system belongs to an earlier age. Continental PR systems are appropriate for a more fluid age with a more diverse and less class-conscious electorate.
>Whatever happens, the Tory party is destined to become the Brexit party While I doubt that -- the British public has rejected past attempts to reform the election system, despite it has produced hideously unfair results, like UKIP 15% - 1 MP (-1) and SNP 5% and 50 MPs.
Lucas Lee
either that or they die all their voters are pro-brexit, so either they go full-brexit or nige will become the new tory
Nathan Baker
They can be a Brexit party on paper, but trash the whole thing. By your standards, the clownshow should have been dumped ages ago. Parties like the Tories (Labour, too) and Angela Merkel's party rely on boomer voters who can't handle the idea of voting different. That allows them to stay around for some time and, under the present election system, scaremonger people into voting for them with the threat of a Labour MP. As far as Farage is concerned, he dumped UKIP for no serious reason at all and now splits the vote - that's deadly under a FPTP system.
Henry Cox
they've already lost almost 1/4 of their votes in one year no brexit = no tories, they just didnt notice yet
Sebastian Edwards
I frankly hope so, but I expect that the remaining voters aren't that flexible, especially if PM BoJo throws a huge lip-service show on TV.
Isaiah Evans
> PR
I wish people would fuck off with this. We'll never have a government right of Blair ever again if we go PR because every establishment party can just form outlandish coalitions to keep upstarts out of power.
scotland has more representation than they deserve, and the SNP won almost all of scotland imagine if a "California party" got 30-40% in most of california and won every single district there, while another party got 15-20% in every other state but lost every election to republicans or dems with 30% each that's how
Leo Garcia
Imagine the US WTA system with districts (constituencies) but multiple parties. If a party just wins enough districts (SNP in Scotland) it gets the MPs, whereas parties that perform well in the overall popular vote can fail to pick up seats because they're a minority in virtually every district.
That is a fair point, but didn't stop Austria, Denmark and Italy swinging significantly to the right, whereas in your case teh doors are closed.
Xavier Russell
> whereas in your case teh doors are closed.
They're not closed, there is just a high threshold for change. It has happened before. Liberals were wiped out after WW2 by Labour. Most recent example was the SNP completely wiping Labour out in Scotland. The brexit betrayal will be one of those wipeout events for the Tories, and we'll hopefully have a proper right wing party replacing them. I don't want some ridiculous situation where UKIP win 49% of the vote and are kept out of government by a coalition between practically everyone else.
Mason Jones
The fact that people vote stupid doesn't mean the system is bad. WTA systems enforce a certain level of centrism. The compromise that happens during coalitions under PR occurs earlier like in the primary stage (see Trump who got compromised with Pence early on). If you're truly a radical, you're unelectable and out. Farage is a great orator and fought like a tiger, yet he was never elected MP despite running in districts where he polled well. The US for example could have a genuine nationalist and libertarian party in Congress, yet is stuck with centrist Rhinos and libs. FPTP/WTA is an outdated system where a candidate is supposed to represent a location, yet modern politics doesn't work that way.
Sebastian Robinson
>I don't want some ridiculous situation where UKIP win 49% of the vote and are kept out of government by a coalition between practically everyone else. Such a coalition would be more unstable than the current confidence & supply arrangement, and you can win your own majority with like 43% of the vote under PR if you have a threshold for parties to enter parliament. As the current situation and the Cameron coalition government showed, you can still fail to form a singe-party government under FPTP. So there's no point other than it's unfair.
Chase Stewart
By the way, the EU Parliament is elected with PR, and it's telling that UKIP made it into it, whereas Farage's many attempts to enter the HoC failed.
Luis Myers
this fptp is retarded
Jackson Sanders
> you can still fail to form a singe-party government under FPTP.
You can but that is generally rare. The massive demographic shift is fucking with the system since muds all vote Labour.
> So there's no point other than it's unfair.
Depends on how you look at it. In PR the country would effectively be ruled by London. In FPTP every region gets representation. With the way the country has diverged through demographic replacement, London may as well be another country.
Don't you use PR in Germany? How is AfD coping with it?
>Don't you use PR in Germany? How is AfD coping with it? Germany has a bloated mixed system where every district gets a directly elected MP. I could run, if I win I'm in the Bundestag. But the total distribution of seats is awarded based on states and PR. To answer your other question: If the 2017 election had been fought only based on FPTP, Merkel's party would have won virtually every seat and AfD 3 in Saxony, and two of these directly elected MPs have since then left the party. Due to PR, AfD won almost a hundred seats.
>UKIP should represent constituencies they didn’t win a majority in Fucking brainlet
Jose Hill
I stated later that that a FPTP system is built to represent a certain area and that this model is outdated due to devolution and the HoC debating matters of national and international relevance. A popular vote/PR election would of course not be meant to represent a limited geographic area, Einstein.
>they didn’t win a majority in And this is garbage because you don't have a run-off like France. You can represent a constituency with 30 or even 20 pc of the vote if it's split enough. Oh yeah it has no gridlock now and represents the people well!
Chase Long
>he thinks Merseyside has devolved powers Fucking mong
Matthew Gray
>HURR DURR YOU DIDNT GET A MAJORITY Lol, so I guess Brexit didn’t get a majority either because it was only voted for by 37% of the electorate?
Justin Thompson
>if it’s different it’s better Fucking Hummelchen
Nolan Ward
He thinks the MP for Merseyside is there to represent Merseyside's interests, and not a random party hack.
Jackson Sanders
>he blames the people who are elected and not the people who elected them You’re not very bright, are you kid?
Nolan Russell
You have a total meltdown and are *very* triggered. Inbred much? Drunken boomer? Or did you saw someone "misgendering" a person on Twitter?
I defeated your argument that your MPs represent majorities; you can't argue back.
Asher Brown
>collapses into adhoms devoid of argument Emotionally invested much? I’ve done a number on you
Thomas Robinson
this with fptp germany would be a fucking one-party state
Owen Mitchell
>HURR DURR UKIP GET DA BIG NUMBER Y DEY NO KING YET?!?!?
Caleb Miller
in rotterham less than 30% of the people voted and a plurality of those guaranteed no punishment for the mass rape of children
how's that local representation working out for you?
So Britain is being forced to leave the EU because of a minority as well? Right?
Aiden Gonzalez
Are you very angry because your gf left you? Or because you never had one?
Jeremiah King
>only people with >51% of the vote can get elected Nice LARP brainlet
Dylan Robinson
Why are you so mad that I’ve had sex?
Kayden Brown
>So Britain is being forced to leave the EU because of a minority as well? Right? For someone who calls everyone who disagrees with him an idiot, you seem to forget that the referendum was non-binding, and that you were the one who claimed that MPs represent majorities. Bad morning, gramps.
Hudson Baker
Everything is non binding you stupid brincel,
Charles Morales
With a goat it seems. It's telling that everyone in this thread can talk like an adult whereas you're sounding like a raging lunatic from Pakistan.
Josiah Bailey
The Magna Carta too, I suppose, goatfucker.
Jason Adams
Why do you keep bringing up having sex with goats and your favourite Keane albums?
Isaiah Harris
Parliament can’t be bound you nonce
Owen Smith
Check me dabbing on these retarded virgins
Jeremiah Anderson
Why are you so mad about a non-issue (it's not as if anything is going to change because of a statement here) and talk like a mongoloid child? Man, life in the UK must suck. Look at how angry that dude is. Perhaps someone terrorized him with a spoon.
That's why you have even less rights than the rest of Europe.
Austin Nguyen
You must be at least 18 years old to post here. but you're probably 81, newfag.
Ayden Reyes
Why don’t you meet me at the Albert docks and I’ll kick your teeth in you fucking nonce cunt
Luis Torres
Lmfao so you admit you’re a virgin and you can’t afford Chinese food
Blake Bailey
What do you think about Margareth Thatcher? A lot of Britons seem to despise her?
>and I’ll kick your teeth Teeth are a very sensible issue in your country? Btw, why are you always repeating the same phrases? Are you a bot?
Jaxson Hill
Listen here you fucking papist Austro-Bavarishit cunt! You wear white socks you mincing nonce
Gabriel Morgan
mohammad, you're drunk
Ian Morales
Well, I actually highly respect Lady Thatcher, and I'd like to point out to you that she once said:
"You only start to insult others when you have lost the political argument."
So I enjoy an intellectual battle, sadly you showed up unarmed and, as the Iron lady pointed out, lost from the very beginning.
That said, because English is your 4th or 5th language you haven't read the rules and we'll see where your bad trolling and flames get you. Have a nice happy day (probably not).
Justin Cruz
He is, but he has no right to embarrass the UK. Blue arrow next to the post number.
Jackson Campbell
What a boring post
Adrian Sullivan
anyway, do you think the german system is better than the irish one or the one where you vote in a district and for a list, but independently?
