The Imperial Truth

>The Imperial Truth is an atheist, rationalist ideology
>atheist, rationalist
Uhhh user that's from 30k

>from the knowledge of the chaos gods, it has nothing to do with progress. If it did, he wouldn't allow the mechanicus cult to worship the dragon, a c'tan star shard that the emperor himself imprisoned on Mars.

I know but im talking about the basic ideological side not the deeper lore side.

>yfw original Imperial Truth is returning to 40k with Firstborn of the Emperor

The logo is Masonic

self worship and not believing in a higher power usually leads to self destruction, because you have nothing to keep you in check. It happened when humanity developed AI and started to play God. The metal men sent the Imperium back to the dark ages.

it's not it's the two headed eagle, one that's blind to the past and keeps moving forward and the other one that's looking at the future. I has nothing to do with the roman eagle.

>blind to the past and keeps moving forward
Sounds like Democrats

no that's completely opposite of the democrat ideology since they always bring shit like colonialism and slavery as a current day problem. Trust me, if we didn't waste endless amounts of resources on third world shitholes in africa, central and south america and would have united under a single banner we would be able to challenge and probably go past the last frontier of space years ago.

> It happened when humanity developed AI and started to play God. The metal men sent the Imperium back to the dark ages.

TIP forbids the creation of self aware A.I.

that was before Big E revealed himself to the world. I used it as example.

Humans need religion whether you want to admit it or not. Life is not warhammer...

pre-Big E mankind wasn't the Imperium and did not operate under TIP. I dont think there is even any accurate lore on pre-Big E mankind's ideology.

>t.Guillistein

TIP is the religion, the god mankind worships is the concept of "becoming the dominant species in the milky way.

>Gold Men
>Stone Men
>Iron Men

I've read a few interpretations, but what if Stone Men were golem-constructs powered through energy directly channeled to rock formations
instead of just the heavy-duty/mass-producing caste of AI servants?

It failed. Do you want to fail?

The blind (armoured) one is facing the future.

Just embrace Papa Nurgle. It's all going to come to an end in any case. At least he actually gives a shit about you.

read the lexicanum wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Aquila

The symbol predates Masonry. It's a "sun and storms" icon representing the royal priesthoods of the Hittites. It has been used basically by everyone. The Masons use it to iconographically represent Jew worship (i.e. Look east for your origin and truth) which is basically the meaning of all Masonic symbols.

The libtards already embraced slaanesh

Read "The Suicide of the West" by James Burnham.

He completely dismantles the theory that a atheist and rationalist ideology could be used to support and sustain society.

fuck my bad you were right, my dyslexia fucked me on this one

>During the times before the Horus Heresy, the two headed eagle was blind-folded on one side, and the other had eyes. The backward facing sighted side represented looking back into the past, while the forward facing blinded eagle was looking into the future. The blinded side also looks more armoured than the sighted one, representing that, although the future is unforeseen, the blinded side is better prepared learning from the mistakes of the past

>After the Heresy, and the rise of the Imperial Cult took hold, the Aquila changed to represent the union of the Adeptus Terra and Adeptus Mechanicus

Neither of which back your claim. The "blind to the past, looking towards the future" line comes from youtube wannabe loremasters who read the shit-tier headcanon 40k wiki.

Look what gooble recommended to me.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_of_the_West

When the imperial truth was first brought up it was an edgy counterbalance to fundie Christianity. Society has gone through its Richard Dawkins phase and barfed it up.

Ironically the historic "Nergal" is basically the God of the Imperial Truth. He's a precursor and another version of Apollo. Among his various powers Apollo is the God of health and so strikes his enemies by withdrawing that health, hence he is also a plague god.

Likewise he is a god of sobriety, art, and science. As healer he is pharmakon, and hence he is responsible for removing from society the pharmakos to heal it. Pharmakos being a toxin in the body of the polis in the form of a mortal agent. A poisoner, a witch, a sorcerer. As enemies of the god of art and aesthetics these people can often be identified by appearance. Mutants with kinky hair and hook noses probably.

Right, and Khorne cares for honour and Tzeentch is all about knowledge and self betterment.
"But cult leader/god loves you!"

I have already started following it.
There have been great men, Christ for example, who used superstision to guide mankind.
I have an incling that there is a guide along this path, perhaps the Emperor himself or maybe a being with greater understanding of the universe, but not a god to worship as an cheerleader.
And if there is none of this, then that is fine too.

>the God of the Imperial Truth
The god of atheism?

>I have an incling that there is a guide along this path, perhaps the Emperor himself or maybe a being with greater understanding of the universe, but not a god to worship as an cheerleader.
>And if there is none of this, then that is fine too.

I agree

They use you and toss you aside when they are finished. Even they can't stop inevitability. Nurgle will walk with everyone hand in hand into oblivion and wait for the new dawn.

Fuck no, because the Imperial Truth was wrong on every account. Emps thought he could defeat Chaos by quelling mythology and belief, but could not understand that Chaos was powered by emotion, and the fear, confidence, ans arrogance his "Truth"created fueled the Chaos Gods more than any religion thus far. Ironically, the Imperial Cult, technically started by Lorgar, has been humanity's shield and sword against Chaos ever since the Horus Heresy ended.

He's wrong because he doesn't understand what religion is. Most people today belong to the Cult of TV. No one is saying every single person in society is supposed to just figure everything out on their own and never receive any cultural wisdom. Art is religion. Now that Christians are not dissematers of symbols and symbol meaning to the masses it is a dead religion of ruralite pagans waiting for the end, which is coming.

Christian theology never incorporated the "how" of spreading a religion which was known by Jews as well Greek and Roman pagan converts. Judaism does teach the "how" so Christians aren't even really involved in this spiritual warfare. Their religion teaches them basically to not engage. Which is why the pagans of classical times viewed it as an 'atheistic' religion. It doesn't contain the social technology to compete with other cults. Except of course at that time any educated person wouldn't not know imbuing Christianity with the pagan tradition, which has now died out.

Yes in a sense he is a god of atheism. More appropriately he's an enemy of debased superstition and charlatans.

>atheist
>living god emperor
atheists are second to vegans on the shit for brains chart.

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>Fuck no, because the Imperial Truth was wrong on every account.
> Emps thought he could defeat Chaos by quelling mythology and belief, but could not understand that Chaos was powered by emotion,

this is implying TIP is wrong in regards to 40k lore, I am talking about TIP in its most basic form and how it could possibly be applied to the real world

bump

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>progress
sounds bad

what ?

Fuck off Lorgar

You sound like a boomer.

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In The talon of horus they sit around drinking adrenochrome and looking beyond the vail.

EMBRACE THE CALL OF CHAOS BROTHERS

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No. The Imperia Truth has alreayd been tried by aetheists, and it's resulted in Science becoming a Faith -- the human brain is wired for Faith, for Religion, but because we are concious beings we can choose to reject Faith/Religion. Unfortunately, that then leaves us with a gaping hole in our psyche that needs to be filled to maintain balance, and the closest thing on hand for it is Science.

This is where the modern phenomina of Science "worshippers" comes from, people trying to fill the hole they've carved into themselves.

I was never aware of this but I’ve held this same thought. That the future religion would be of objective science no matter how uncomfortable the truth. An acknowledgement of the universe to change the universe. I think as we start adopting new types of transhumanist technology, such as gene editing, we will gradually shift towards such a universal belief system

Faggot ancient book worshipper. I think YOU can’t give it up

Why is it HEResy? Why not hisesy?

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Wait I got it. Its because women are always wrong? Right, so heresy is the logical conclusion.
OK, disregard the question.

>values of reason, science and secular progress.
none of those concepts convey any sort of value

If science wasn’t subverted I’d be inclined to disagree with you. Still, progress is being made through the practice

>The Imperial Truth is an atheist
And you've lost me.

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All hail the god emperor of mankind

>t. fedorafags with 1000+ hours in a stupid game

The god emperor is human my nig

so you agree that science can be used to convey any sort of values through the subjective reasoning of people? So how could such an ideology ever flourish? all it would lead to is people making up science just like they're doing today with "gender studies"

So are you a zombie worshipper or do you think some guy in the cloud claps to create thunder?

I was just reading the last church. Great short story. Ultimately the emperors folly was not realizing mankind will always need something greater to believe in. That and being a shit dad.

>The Imperial Truth is an atheist, rationalist ideology defined by the values of reason, science and secular progress.
Yes because that has never been tried before...

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Worshiping materialism is what got is to clown world in the first place.
Turns out people do a shit job creating meaningful values that aren't traditional.

Here's the funny thing.
>Emperor hates religion
>kills off his son's legion because he was religious
>son literally goes mad and sows the seeds that tear dad's plans to shreds in the future
>Emperor still thinks religion is gay
>Literal gods send his own legions to ransack his own capital
>Emperor has to sit on his throne forever because he hated religion
>literally gets called God Emperor from then
>religion ends up the only thing that holds his decadent Empire intact
What this mean?

Better to have faith in something crazy than none at all, which at the end is far crazier.

But the imperial truth is bullshit. The emperor lied about the chaos gods ( thus setting the stage for Hirus to fall) he lied about psykers ( The entire Magus affair could have been prevented with one conversation) in fact the emperor is actually the souls of Shamans who knew Chaos ate the souls of the dead.
The Imperial Truth was a lie

It's a cruel irony, that's for sure.

Then again, the answer would be no. The Imperial Truth only works when humanity has reached its peak, you can't discover new tech and advancements when reason becomes the only metric. It only worked for the Emperor because he unified humanity only AFTER we had lost our ridiculous level of tech during the Dark Age of Tech, so all the work of "discovering" new things has already been done. Without belief in other powers, creativity, and mystery, we wouldn't have art, writings, and anything that makes us human really.

The entertainment industry already follows the Imperial Truth, where everything is dictated by logic; in that the "formulas" for a successful movie have already been discovered, and every new movie must adhere to these formulas to get a good ROI, as they have been proven time and time again to work.

>Some guy in the clouds
Ok kid, I can tell you've put a lot of thought into this.

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Well that’s the downfall of the ideology. Bad science can be guided to support any narrative you want. The soft sciences anyway. But if this wasn’t the case, I think people could learn to worship objective reality. To understand the universe so they can be closer to the universe. Everything is connected concept. And the proof of worshipping science is obvious through the manifesting utility it brings forth. Coming up with a cure to an illness can be seen as the holy mother universe (whatever you want to call it) blessing us with her knowledge which we received through our persistence worship (practice of science)

THIS

Its now the opposite.

I view religion as a tool. If the circumstance was appropriate for Christianity, I would advocate for it. I think it is possible that the worship of objectivity (atheism) could provide more utility these days. Problem is people are not inclined to do so, at least yet, so in that fundamental sense, it fails

It's more akin to karma, than irony.

I’m referring to paganism and have read novels on it. Have you? Believing this is as stupid as I made it sound, although it is interesting to study

In this case it's because Horus was a bitch

Yeah but the Imperium in Warhammer is not racist.

It was, read your lore more faggot.

>I view religion as a tool
And that's where you stop.
You try to subjugate the thing that is out to subjugate your very being.
Your problem with religion is not that it in itself is not genuine enough, but that those who claim to follow it are not genuine in following it.
In the end, your argument would fall to the fault of human nature itself, which Christianity has always spoken about as something to be fought against for something higher, which is found in the morals set by God.

This shit is as cringy as making a jedi religion.
And I say this as a fan of W40K games and books.

I'd say it's both. Lorgar was a faggot, though.

I've read it and it didn't work.

Yeah but it was atheist. Then later after the Heresy it was replaced with the worship of the God Emperor.

But was he a faggot and was there a chance he could have been made not to be one?
In the end, he was right, it was religion that overtook reason and did what reason should do, but couldn't.

Like I said.
It didn't work.

I believe Christianity has utility. It helps people. And provides a good guideline for being and those values reflect the history of white people. I respect it without believing. I understand why people fight to believe in it, as that it sort of a requirement for people to get use out of it. We are likely evolved to be highly defensive about such beliefs. But when looking at it objectively, it’s a tool used to provide benefit at the individual-level and group-level

neither faggot.
>worship objective reality
this is something only a logical person could ever say. The thing is, unless you want to genocide 90% of the population this can't ever happen. The large majority of people worship anything based on feelings
ask muslims or Christians why they believe, almost never do they have a rational argument for it. Not because there aren't any for their beliefs, but because the large majority falls for appeals to emotion.
>Coming up with a cure to an illness can be seen as the holy mother universe (whatever you want to call it) blessing us with her knowledge which we received through our persistence worship (practice of science)
You mean God inspiring a person to take the right action to cure a disease? Because it kinda sounds like your ideology ends up in a Christian morality and a rational outlook on the world, which is literally just the entire period of the renaissance up until the modern era

In the grim darkness of the far future, even the Emperor gets in trouble.

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I get what you're saying, but humans, fundamentally, will never, ever, be objective beings and they cannot look at the world through the lense of objectivity. Your own arguments show that. You think that in tje future it might be possible for humans to worship objectivity, but that is solely a possibility because you are capable of doing so, because you look through the lense of your subjectivity and then through the lense of objectivity, you cannot see that other humans are in fact completely incapable of looking through the lense of objectivity.

People were literally sacrificing humans to the 4 princes of Hell, and you want to discuss the pros/cons of a fictional pseudo-philosophy based on a board game?

Wake up, child. Wake the fuck up.

It's probably closest to Agnostic Deism, with Manifest Destiny sprinkled in there for the white kids that still play board games. But I digress, what are we doing about the people that are literally worshiping Satan, Lucifer, Belial, and Leviathan?

Anyone think this shit is real?
Anyone think this shit is NOT real?

These people are in our face with it, but we keep buying movie tickets and going to concert shows.
urbanpeek.com/2011/10/30/naomi-campbells-eye-of-horus-house-by-luis-de-garrido/

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Well I pretty much agree with everything you just said. I doubt the world would adopt such a belief at this time. But I do think the divine intervention idea obfuscates and thus possibly isn’t as effective as the focused practice of science, but I do appreciate you pointing out the morality aspect, which is something that isn’t core to atheist belief to that is a negative for atheism. But ya you Christianity might be effective enough on its own and people are inclined to believe it already

Chaos seems to be the only ones having fun with it.

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