Of course, being the best candidate in 2020 does not mean he will win. He was cheated in 2016 by the DNC, and will face the same issue again, and also may face a 3rd party run to flip the election to Trump. But he has the best ideas. Former Trump supporter in summer 2015. About 18 months ahead of the curve. If Bernie is not cheated by the DNC and there is not a 3rd party run from the Left, he should win. You may try to prove me wrong if you wish. Trump ran on the Sanders platform in 2016 (plus immigration) and defeated both the RNC and DNC. Bernie's platform will necessitate immigration restriction to be sustainable. But we get all of the other good policies of Bernie also. Other than hedge fund billionaires, CEOs, extreme racists and MIC goons, Bernie has the country with him.
Bernie is the best candidate for 2020
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>Vote to have the state take my money and pay for a shit ton of new students to give them free college so they can massively increase the degree holding labor supply and make all of our existing degrees nearly worthless
No. Why the fuck would anyone support this?
Falling for the close the gate boomer lie. Sad.
Thank you, a debate! First off, it is investing in infrastructure. Tuition reduction is a worthy goal, for it frees up spare income from those sectors of the population most likely to spend on cars, consumer durable goods, housing, etc. It is very foolish to support mortgaging the future of the young to support the profits of a small group of student loan companies, and the federal government. The better question is, who would be opposed to a financial transaction tax of transaction tax of $.50 on every $100 of stock transactions a.1% fee on bonds and a .0005% fee on derivatives to reduce tuition at public schools for 50%? What is the economic policy behind enslaving our own young to debt to enrich speculators who contribute nothing to the economy, and in fact, harm it, and dodge on their taxes also? And your taxes support Israel, corporate CEOs and defense contractors as it is, Bernie will not stop this, but as a social democrat will allow a portion of it to go to your community. As far as "free" college, it won't be free just a reduction in tuition, and most of the degrees will be worthless anyways, but those people with worthless degrees will spend their money on other things and that is good for the economy.
>Trump ran on the Sanders platform in 2016
What fucking planet are you from? Holy kek that's nonsensical.
worst campaign slogan since Love Trumps Hate
user brings up the most important opposition point to Bernie - how the billionaires, CEOs, and hedge funds and media oligarchs retain unjust authority is by dividing society into "identity" groups - race, gender, class, age, sexuality, etc. The one "identity" we are not allowed to have is worker vs. owner and debt payer vs. saver. Bernie allows those who work for a living to advocate for their interests as workers, rather than be divided and manipulated by partisan politics, or in the case of Trump, demagoguery. While it is true that the poor will benefit economically, they lose their money to business owners and the middle class over time anyways. What Bernie's policies will do is challenge the stranglehold of the "oppressive, exploitative" classes and their monopoly on political discourse. This benefits all. And also, with more social democratic policies, there will be a bigger and natural push to immigration restriction, and a reduction in foreign wars, as we move beyond the "invade the world, invite the world" of Bush/Reagan and their imitators Clinton and Obama "neoliberals."
I for one welcome commissar Sanders
Thank you! Trump ran on an economically populist campaign that opposed lobbyists, donors, special interests, bad trade deals, disastrous foreign wars, and so forth. Bernie has been saying this for decades, and actually opposed those bad trade deals, the Iraq war, and is not a pawn of lobbyist money in the DNC. The only difference is that Trump added some nativist appeals and he is white rather than Jewish. But other than this, he stole the platform of Sanders, and governed as a neocon George W Bush 3rd term on steroids. George W Bush would not have appointed Bolton and been so crazy on foreign issues.
imagine being this fucking stupid.
He's not a comissar he is a social democrat. If he tries anything radical the military will take him out. We will be governed like Germany or France or Italy or Denmark or any sensible European nation under him. The only difference will be that the military and the financial sector will have slightly less relative privilege - they will still be privileged and powerful but there will be slightly more for the rest of us.
You are right.
Yes, so, if you want a functional country and economy, you have to think in terms of more than 10 second sound bytes, a Twitter one liner, a Tumblr post or Instagram photo, or a funny Vine. Try to consider the issues of Sanders. Do you personally benefit from excess debt, a stagnant economy, tax cuts for the very wealthy, foreign wars, little social safety net, and a tax code the privileges certain parasitic factions above those who work for a living? If not, why do you support these structures that enslave and degrade you?
>he stole the platform of Sanders
I don't recall any part of Trump's platform being "Dude free shit". Not in education or healthcare.
Bernie wants exorbitant taxes and an unfathomable expansion of all welfare programs. Without a commitment on the inverse to completely end all foreign military intervention.
The only thing they have in common is having zero friends in Washington. Bernie only because he's a human charisma vacuum who has in his long tenure absolutely failed to gain ideological fellows. And that strikes me as way more pathetic than Trump who simply wasn't part of that group at all.
If you want to solve the college loan debt situation the solution is to end the Federal Guarantee on student loans and revert to all student loans being dissoluble through traditional bankruptcy.
I don't want more Executive authority, I want less. And Bernie stands for increasing governmental dependency instead of reducing it. And that's an untenable direction to head in given the ineptitude of government and the already upside-down finances of the national government as well as those of the majority of our state governments.
We're broke. And we need to stop spending tax revenue like we aren't. There's no candidate compatible with that platform, but I can assure you that Bernie is the furthest from it at present.
And he's a shitty leader and an even shittier orator/debater.
trump promised healthcare for all, and making america great again. and a lot more. He basically promised anything and everything anyone asked him. He is a conman.
>just give the government more money and it'll fix everything for you
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
The difference being those are homogeneous European nations and we are a multiracial country where equal outcome is preferred over equal opportunity
>trump promised healthcare for all
Nope. His promise was to FIRST reduce operating costs of Medicare to lower its overall budget footprint. THEN as a secondary action after the first was performed was to expand the number of those eligible for it. It wasn't a "for everybody" plan.
Jews burned Notre dame:
nope, he promised not to touch medicare and medicaid and then he promised to cover everyone with great healthcare, the best healthcare.
>trump promised healthcare for all
source for this please bern out shill
>posts tradcon coal burner
fucking gross, go back to r/blacked faggot
>Hindsight is 2020
This is gonna be more obnoxious elite "vote for the right candidate you stupid lower class whites :)" than Hillary right? Also less people should go to college, we need more people in trade programs and protection for blue collar workers
This is good! We are now discussing issues. I'll have to go one by one! First off, Trump does stand for "free shit" just only for the privileged sectors - his tax cuts for corporations have been massive, his refusal to institute a financial transaction tax is almost criminal, and his refusal to subject the defense department to accounting and constant press for increases in the budget in the absence of a hot war is definitely "free shit" but it is all sold under the guise of "security" from "foreigners" and "socialism.' Second, regarding Bernie personally, he is kind of a nerd, but he is a consistent nerd, and thus less likely to be co-opted by various lobbyists and sectors. But he has not gained fellows because his position is oppressed, as American workers and the working class have been oppressed also. Third, in terms of policies, who would oppose legislation to break up the big banks, a financial transaction tax, a higher income tax, a living wage, and so forth? I don't agree with him on everything, but I don't expect Republicans to let him have his way when he gets in. The point is, we need a social democrat activist government to counter the massive inequality we have. And yes, we are bankrupt, because of the crony capitalism and welfarism for those small sectors of the economy that are never held to account. He also supports auditing the Federal Reserve. And the tax rates he proposes were considered "mainstream" before supply-side goon Reagan impoverished everyone but the defense contractors and Wall Street. I support restrictions on access to student loans and also tuition reduction at state schools funded by taxes, and both are practical. With Bernie in charge we will actually debate issues and solve problems. What you call "charisma" is merely "distracting other people so that the elite can continue their plunder" and yes, it is a strength that Bernie can't and won't do this.
God I wish you people were here for the christchurch shooting, scared off the other Democrat shills(I forgot for who though, like it matters).
Nah, Sanders doesn't directly benefit me. Andrew Yang is giving me and everyone a $1000/month, does college better, tackles automation unlike Bernie, UBI > Jobs Guarantee, Democracy Dollars, and more. He's way way better than Sanders. If the country must fall to socialism, then better the asian man trying to give me $1000 for being a citizen with taxes than the jewish man trying to give other people money while not giving me $1000. I don't care about fiscal responsibility anymore. I'm ready for the collapse if it does or does not happen. May as well vote the more comfy collapse.
meme picture isn't a source, try again shareblue retard. Also national healthcare never works, stay mad kike
yes, and trust me, if we emphasize equal outcome, we will be more homogeneous and we will restrict the border. Moreover, the biggest difference is not between workers of different races, but between tiny sectors of predatory capitalism and those who work for a living - including engineers, doctors, professors, scientists, lawyers, all of whom can be considered "working class" because a majority of their income and wealth derives from their labor rather than control of capital. We actually should as a society seek to narrow this gap between the hereditary privilege of accumulated capital or unfair advantages that accrue to multinationals and those who contribute with their labor to society. The difference between profession worker and lower middle class and even bum on welfare pales in comparison to the difference between capital owner and worker.
>Falling for the close the gate boomer lie.
It's not wrong. We already have free education, it's call high school. And a high school diploma doesn't get you shit on the job market, while a bachelor's degree as of today still does give you some priority over applicants without one. Every extra person with a degree competing for jobs is a loss of value for the degree you already have. You act like there's something wrong with the view of things as a competition, but obviously getting a job IS a competition.
And sure, maybe a would be hard left President could also champion approaches to making more opportunities to keep up with the increase in equally credentialed competition, but we have no guarantee for any of that actually happening. When a proposal like comping university for everyone comes up you have to consider how it would impact things if nothing else but that proposal went through to be realistic about it, and it's a fucking awful situation taken on its own without any highly speculative attempts at rationalizing the harm away through imaginary mitigating factors.
>yes, and trust me
Don't trust him, if a retard says this he has no argument
>Posts YANGGANG 1000 DOLLARS! right after my post
> If the country must fall to socialism, then better the asian man trying to give me $1000
How much money do you need you fucking Jew? I guess you can just move to israel
>I'm totally not a communist
>instead of race/religion/gender being central to your identity, make it your class. Join hands with your brothers and sisters, overthrow the bourgeois. Workers of the world unite!
Well, I agree that both fewer people should go to college and that we should promote unionization, the trades, and dignity for workers. But the bigger issue is that workers should conceive of themselves as workers whose class position is similar to other workers, rather than potential employees of oppression who can then lord it over others. Without the promise of the war state or smashing other nations there is literally no reason why any white person with a net worth under a few hundred thousand would vote for Bush or Trump. So, yes, they should recognize their class interests more than their race interests, especially since the oppression of other countries has not gone as planned recenlty.
>Well, I agree
He doesn't
How much is Bernie's campaign paying you per post? 1 cent? 2 cents?
Okay, a Yang shill. So, Yang also opposes unionization and taxing large corporations and he also may oppose a financial transaction tax also. I don't know if he supports auditing the Fed, but my limited take on him is that he is essentially a Silicon valley right winger with some concern for managing potential future economic disruption. I"m all for him entering the debates, but he is a political novice and a one trick pony and does not have the experience to govern, as probably he himself would acknowledge
so let's say tuition is largely cut or subsidized completely, wtf happens to kids who just graduated and have thousands in debt? why tf would hey vote to give people for free what they went into $60k debt for ?
NO COLLUSION
Yang is just a tech fag that wants to seduce the masses with 1000 dollars so you will give up the rest of your labor rights and have literally no power.
>Okay, a Yang shill
Nokay, a bern out shill
Trump still sends billions to his foreign masters in Israel and Saudi Arabia. I may not like the estate tax and immigration policy of the Jewish Communist but by god I don't think he'd suck Saudisraeli dick nearly as much as Dirty Donald. Comrade Sanders has my vote. If cutting off the sand people costs me a little more in taxes I'll gladly fucking pay that.
Lol, I'm not a communist and neither is Bernie! I'm not even a social democrat as Bernie is, I"m a disgruntled Trump supporter. But the point is that collective action is needed to prevent exploitation. If I am offered a job at a hedge fund making a few hundred thousand to maybe $10 million or more per year, I will take it, but until then, I'm jealous and think that they should be taxed because they actually do contribute little to the economy.
student loan foregiveness & benefit to economie
Try to consider my points rather than always ad homenim attacks. I support a German-style system of trade schools, unionization and state support for small and medium size enterprise along with tariffs.
>so let's say tuition is largely cut or subsidized completely, wtf happens to kids who just graduated and have thousands in debt? why tf would hey vote to give people for free what they went into $60k debt for ?
That's a compound problem too because I don't have any debt from back when I got my degree as of today so I'd get fucked by this either way i.e. It'll mean A) I have to support ruining my own degree through taxes to pay for a shit ton of extra equally credentialed competitors in the job market or B) I have to do A still AND I have to pay even more taxes for debt forgiveness on all the degree holders with outstanding college debt.
Honestly if Sanders would come out and say he's not going to give a cent to anyone for college I would vote for him. I hate that proposal so much.
I gets absolutely nothing but thanks for asking! As I have said many times Im a former Trump supporter who predicted his rise in summer 2015. But now that I realize that Trump stole Bernie's platform, I will go for the real thing.
that's the spirt
>Lol, I'm not a communist and neither is Bernie!
Yes you are, yes he is
>Try to consider my points rather than always ad homenim attacks.
>s-stop m-making fun of my retarded idea user you b-bully
Rope yourself commie, no one gives a fuck about your pathetic existance
>I gets absolutely nothing
He gets 1$ per post
Burnie is by no means a man of the people, how many houses is he at now? 3? People vote for people like trump because the very idea of wanting America to be a Christian nation is hate speech, the idea that America wasn't a multicultural society well into the 70's and maybe we're going too far is fair game to doxxing/physial attacks, and that the proud boys got banned from Twitter but not isis accounts. All of these are absolutely great reasons to vote for the guy the elites call the physical return of hitler
This literally reads like the communist manifesto. Why don't you just come out and say to each according to their need from each according to their ability?
I'm not in favor of trust fund babies getting everything handed to them while middle and lower class people have no opportunities to climb the ladder, but Jesus Christ. How about a meritocracy? Where the people who score the highest on the test get the spot. And hard workers are compensated more than fucking slobs who are on drugs.
Oh yeah and nationalistic. This runs counter to your world view though. Humans are interchangeable, race, ethnicity, culture, religion are all interchangeable cogs to you. People are nothing more than workers in an economic system.
ur gay
That is a good point. There would have to be some kind of phased out loan forgivness to those already trapped in the system. My own preference would be for some kind of military or national guard service or public service work for two to four years or so to pay it off. They should not just have it forgiven, and we can use those years of service as a country. But I haven't thought about it too much.
Ummm... Trump supporter in summer of 2015 until sometime after his election. It's okay if you can't read. We are here to help.
finally, an American!
>meritocracy
the rich won't let that happen. We have to take the system from them and reset it.
That's the smartest thing you've said so far
>lol I'm not a communist and neither is Bernie!
X to doubt
>I'm a disgruntled Trump supporter
You 100% are not. You are trying to appear as one to convert people. A disgruntled Trump supporter on Jow Forums is pissed about immigration and foreign policy, and that's really it. Bernie seems fine on the latter and disasterous on the former. Not only that, he would probably persecute nationalists.
>collective action is needed to prevent exploitation
i unironically agree with this, to different ends. I don't hate the wealthy for being wealthy.
>think they should be taxed
Yeah sure. I'm not willing to vote for someone who hates me and wants to replace me with hispanics to do it.
Trump is good against Cultural Marxism, I will give you that. And yes, the media overplayed its hand and handed the victory to him in 2016 by their extremism. However, he has not been the economic populist he promised to be, you should concede this. He has basically turned into a neocon, and why should we have to support miserable economic polices for this?
yang wants to turn you into a slave for 1000 dollars a month
>eat the rich
Are you pretending not to be a communist still? If you would just admit it we could try and have a conversation
jesus christ you are why the middle class will continue to be raped. Please overdose and kill yourself sooner than later so we can make america great again.
Im a capitalist. But i'm also a temporary communist so we can reset the system. Go close to communism, then go more capitalist again. Equalize the system. The rich have raped us for too long, its time to rape them.
Hey I'm a socialist too buddy. *cough*
Okay, this is an argument! I mentioned in an earlier post that I support the German (or Japanese) system for that matter of emphasizing trade schools, support for the working class, unionization, tariffs, immigration restriction, and so on. I don't support mass immigration SO I don't support the warfare-welfare state. Think about what Reagan did to California with is warfare welfare state. Sure, he busted the unions, but with that he destroyed middle class and lower middle class white jobs. Sure, he was "tough" and gave the defense contractors everything and "fought socialism" and gave Wall Street everything but CA is now Democratic and will never be Republican again. Isn't Trump doing this, but to the entire country? If Trump does not support workers to some extent, doesn't support unionization and infrastructure projects, the entire country will go to some form of Blue.
Jow Forums needs to decide which retard we are going to vote for so we can all get on board already...
>we're just going to be communists for a little while
Right
Its either Bernie or Drumpf and Drumof has failed.
fuck you kike
I want Bernie to win the DNC nomination.
Trumps been sitting on his ass for a while now but I'm going to wait until the primary before I even bother with the Democrat party.
You are putting a lot of effort into your posts, honestly even posts I agree with tend to be shit. Why try promoting Burnie on a board of self-admitted Nazis and weirdos? Most shilling is very low effort
>YANGGANG!!! What are going to spend your 1000 on?
I'm not voting for Trump again. He is boring and not doing shit. He is a slave to The Jew too which is good since I am going for accelerationism now but...He isn't doing anything..
I have to vote for a complete retard that will bring utter destruction upon America like Ocasio-Cortez
Amnesty was what turned CA blue and that is exactly what Bernie Sanders will do if he takes office.
Bernie is also a capitalist btw. He just supports healthcare for all and public education that makes a country better and other equalizations that are long over due. Its the only way to save our country. The super rich will destroy it.
I thought his name was Sanders? Who is Hindsight?
You concerns about Bernie are valid. The idea of a $15 minimum wage AND open borders and free college AND universal health care, is more or less insane. But you presume that Bernie will not face opposition to enact this within the DNC and among Republicans. I think that he will and he will not be able to dictate anything. And, he is a social democrat not a Communist and those who support his policies, when they experience the benefits of them, will naturally and successfully vote to restrict immigration.
also bernie is not for open borders.
He truly is
Bernie is the next populist false savior the people will turn to.
They will be disappointed again.
It will be a cold day in hell when congress passes ANY of this.
Especially after the democrats lose both houses in the midterms.
I want a debate. I agree with Bernie on economics as do most if they are honest about it. The problem with Bernie, and this is realistic, is that he will hurt upper middle class whites, channel his "redistributive" anger at them, and do nothing about the Big Banks and the military. That is why I didn't vote for him in 2016. By contrast, Trump and the Republicans need functional members of society to be able to rob and deceive them. On the other hand, at some point, everyone gets tired of being robbed and lied to and decieved by the same group over and over again. That is after all why Trump was elected.
well Reagan did that too
america has not moved left for like 50 years. Its the only logical choice as a last chance to save our country. The right have failed, the middle has failed, tRUMP HAS FAILED.
Fuck Reagan
>The idea of a $15 minimum wage AND open borders and free college AND universal health care, is more or less insane.
Can you link to where Bernie Sanders has suggested “open borders” is what he would implement once he becomes president? I assume he just continues with ops at the border like Obama.
Same for free college, I understand he wants to have tuitions at state public colleges lowered to 0. Those tuitions can be rather low already, a few thousand bucks at the moment.
As to UHC, do people understand that all of Europe uses the Bismark insurance model and only Britain uses the error prone Beverage model that csn be easily exploited?
>Enact comprehensive immigration reform, including a path towards citizenship.
>Expand DACA and DAPA, including providing immediate legal status for young people eligible for the DACA program and developing a humane policy for those seeking asylum.
>Completely reshape and reform our immigration enforcement system, including fundamentally restructuring ICE, an agency Senator Sanders voted against creating.
>End the barbaric practice of family separation and detention of children in cages.
>Dismantle cruel and inhumane deportation programs and detention centers.
>Establish standards for independent oversight of relevant agencies within DHS.
Far cry from build the wall deport them all lmao
user if there is one way to get even the most ardent black pilled
>"trump is a shill"
>"make israel great again"
National socialist purist on Trumps side?
its to run a litteral communist jew for presidency
once that happens pol will flip against him
and once Jow Forums is against you in this day and age you're fucked
>muh 1%
no
Bernie will win, hands down. And that’s a good thing.
The butthurt among Trumpers will be delicious.
Its the right thing to do. The path the gop is on regarding immigrants will never work and it wont last and its only going to create a severe backlash eventually.
>implying he isn't a scam artist and won't do the same thing again this election
imagine the keks when Trump has to hand over the presidency to him. Trump will probably kill himself like Hitler.
They think we're illogical rednecks who don't understand what they're saying.
>no no I swear we're not communists
>literally using Karl Marx talking points
It's actually the popular position among the white working class.
They're just dumb inbred redneck hicks though what do they know. Fucking deplorable am I right?
It is up to Trump whether he wins or loses in 2020 at this point. If he continues to ignore is base and favors Bolton internationally and Javanka domestically, why shouldn't his base want to stick it to him? Will he not accelerate in those directions if he is granted another 4 years? All he has to do is give us occasional crumbs and we will cheer. But he doesn't want to do this. It is sad.
Kill yourself you retard Bernie fag
>cheated
He was a stooge, his whole purpose was to get the free loading parasite class excited for free shit and invested in the 2016 campaign. Hillary was an uncharismatic cunt, a corporate stooge who might as well be a cuckservative republican except she calls blacks niggers behind their backs and everyone knew it, Bernie played the good stooge and ran his "we gotta stop literally Hitler even if it means voting for my opponent" campaign before the primaries were even over. He collected his payment, then went full in on the Russian collusion bullshit like the good dog he is and now right on que for 2020, with the DNC hopefuls looking even less likeable than last time, here comes Boine "free shit and the people you don't like are gonna pay for it!!!!!" Sandals to get you windup voters excited for a fucking repeat ass raping.
>No refunds, goy!
Top lel. Remember when Jill Stein took everyone on the far left's shekels to bring suit for a recount then """unfortunately""" missed all the the filing deadlines?