Statism is morally unjustifiable. Prove me wrong. Pro tip: you can't.
I don't care about "practicality" or "necessity", I only care about morality and principal. It is my contention that using force and threats of harm to control people, to extort resources and behaviors from people, is always morally evil except in direct self-defense. If you disagree, then provide a MORAL justification for you to be allowed to threaten and force other people into giving you money or obeying your will. Justify, morally, the existence/operation of a terrorist mafia, or as you would call it, a government. Again, "practicality" and "necessity" are invalid responses in this context. I don't care about the consequences, I don't care about the outcomes, I only care about morality and principal.
"Morality" only exists in the context of a civilization.
Civilizations can only exist as a stable entity when there is a state.
Therefore the existence of morality in the world is predicated on stat ism; and thus statism cannot be immoral in itself.
Easton Watson
Somebody is butthurt because he got a ticket today, I can tell.
Jeremiah Perry
You are factually incorrect. Morality has absolutely nothing to do with civilization. Morality is a personal belief about how oneself, and presumably by extension others, should treat people. Morality exists entirely independent of statism.
I would have killed the pig or died trying rather than tolerate being the victim of moral evil. So, no, I have not in fact had any interactions with state-sponsored thugs today, otherwise we would not be having this conversation.
Jackson Nguyen
>I'd attack the police. Yes, please go with that, faggot. I want you to die.
Ryan Reed
And I want to die rather than live one more miserable day in this hellish shithole you morally bankrupt pieces of shit have the nerve to call a "society". The only reason I'm not dead yet is that I'm unable to kill myself, and thus am waiting eagerly for someone else to do it for me.
Nicholas Brown
And, they would be the ones starting it. Trying to rob me at gunpoint.
Noah King
>Morality has absolutely nothing to do with civilization. Brainlet tier thinking. Totally wrong. If there is nobody enforcing ideas of right and wrong, the concept is meaningless.
>Morality is a personal belief about how oneself, and presumably by extension others, should treat people. No it isn't. That's called WANTING something.
Ethan Stewart
You're the brainlet thinking that something only has meaning if it's backed by force.
And as for your second lines, what are you even trying to say?
Why do I get the feeling that this thread is going to be full of braindead retards conflating morality with law? Why do you people seem to think that they are one and the same, or even related? They aren't.
Robert Roberts
I have a believe that you should treat me as your king, and i should treat you as my servant.
Is that morality?
Nolan Martin
>I only care about morality then you serve no purpose nor does any discucion with you, as morality was born in order to serve practical purposes, now those purposes are obsolete and thus morality must change, not the other way around
Not if it isn't shared by enough people to make you an actual king, retard.
Mason Davis
In your opinion, perhaps, but I would disagree. The real trouble, the real problem with this world, is how we go about peacefully coexisting while disagreeing. I don't know what solution would work, but I know that a statist solution is not worth living under. That's why I'm here, fishing for valid responses and alternatives. And why I have responded to you more respectfully.
The purpose I serve is to liberate humanity from evil, or at least do as much toward that end as I can. Statism seems to me to be clearly evil, hence the conversation. I'm looking for flaws in my own position, and possible solutions to the problem of statism.
Finally a serious response! Sadly, I cannot morally justify the use of force in such a way, even if it is necessary. Any ideas on alternatives?
Andrew Brown
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statism >In political science, statism is the belief that the state should control either economic or social policy, or both, to some degree. American economic policy is controlled by market, the private capitalists aka Jews(all companies). American social policy is controlled by market, the private capitalists aka Jews(Hollywood, media, internet sites).
Clearly you OP have no idea what statism means, but you are right cops can do all those things, just that it has nothing to do with statism.
Alexander Murphy
>Finally a serious response! Sadly, I cannot morally justify the use of force in such a way, even if it is necessary. Any ideas on alternatives? Sometimes the result of force is better than not using force. I could give examples but it's obvious and you're being disingenuous. If you've decided "no force" a priori I can't convince you otherwise can I? It's your opinion.
Xavier Barnes
>I would have killed the pig or died trying rather than tolerate being the victim of moral evil Are you excited for your first day of high school this year?
>Statism is morally unjustifiable. Prove me wrong. You have to prove yourself right first, which you couldn't even begin to try to do without claiming that pragmatism is unimportant, which is a self-evidently bankrupt point to attempt to debate in and of itself.
Luke Mitchell
>if you break laws on top of laws you broke, you can get killed, but only if you're resist violently to receiving a traffic violation that was designed to protect innocent people from being run over or otherwise killed in car accidents
Isaac Edwards
Soon you'll realize that order is a sword that cuts both ways, yet, is necessary for the continuity of groups of people. Theres an authoritarian inside of everybody. You're in a phase. Itll pass soon.
Only pacifism is MORAL. But pacifism gets you dead. If you are okay with that, that's cool...but I am not.
Jayden Price
I think cops would be much more brutal in full ancap society. Cops can also be more brutal in totalitarian society, they just aren't irrational like in ancap society. Cops in USA are more closer to ancap model than totalitarian model of system.
We need full scale Mad Max cops going beserk on niggers. Even OP would agree.
Jaxson Young
Ma'am you seem to be in a state of duress because of this slightly darker individual holding you at gunpoint for your purse. I declare that with no money I am unable to have the means to protect you, because you did not want to pay. I cannot detain him as it would be against his rights as a person, surely he would also object to being kidnapped. I am unable to kill him for threatening death on another person because your feelings dictated my actions long ago. Sounds good OP lets do it
Uniroincally if you are looking for the moral viewpoint of having someone be an arbiter of law, look no further than that they protect people more so than they kill at least. Since you only about morality and principals it would morally just for you to kill yourself as your train of thought would lead to a greater loss of life if they were to become mainstream than that of the counter position.
Leo Moore
Morality is the enforcement of order through rules. Had cars existed during biblical times then we'd have stories about how God killed some dude for driving too fast. Short-sighted savages are too dumb to see how we need punishment for taking inconsiderate risk to put a pressure on that risk-taking, because people are all too dumb to properly adjust their behaviour in the face of a known risk.
OP has no idea what morality is, there's no morality outside of religion, and religion is proto-statist.
David Martinez
Considering those cops would be white. You are implying a lot here. Of course in Hollywood nowadays they are white, since white man bad.
Liam Collins
>Justify, morally, the existence/operation of a terrorist mafia, or as you would call it, a government.
I'll give you an amoral and a moral justification. The amoral justification is a government is inevitable. While whether or not we should have a government is a neat topic, it has no relevance to reality. The moral justification is that the government is necessary to enforce the very thing you suggest - people shouldn't be allowed to initiate harm against others. You can't have that without a government.
Jaxson Lee
Self sacrifice is the first step towards civilization. If you prefer being an atomized individual and don't want to participate in society then perhaps you should go live in the jungle
Gabriel Bell
Nobody likes getting a ticket, and most people aren't ballsy enough to call out the racket of ticketing. They pay it because, as OP's pic clearly says, no one wants to die. Make no mistake, vilence will come upon you if you refuse to pay, even if you yourself did not act in any violent or disruptive manner.
Being okay with this fact makes you a cuck to the government, and this is a matter of fact that cannot be debated.
Anthony Allen
>I don't care about "practicality" or "necessity", I only care about morality and principal.
That's silly, though. Excluding practicality and necessity from moral condiderations is just depraved. I recommend that you try to be a better person next week, in some practical way that doesn't involve dicussing politics or having the right opinions.
After you become a good person, then you can try talking about social life.
Camden Reyes
>Ma'am you seem to be in a state of duress because of this slightly darker individual holding you at gunpoint for your purse. I declare that with no money I am unable to have the means to protect you, because you did not want to pay. I cannot detain him as it would be against his rights as a person, surely he would also object to being kidnapped. I am unable to kill him for threatening death on another person because your feelings dictated my actions long ago. >Sounds good OP lets do it
This is why you carry a gun. Who needs the cops when you can kill a rapist or mugger yourself and save society the trouble?
I would agree with you if USA was 99% white. Unfortunately, USA is full of beaners, niggers, poos, Arabs, chinks and New Jerseyans (a mix of the former) who give zero fucks about civilized society until there is a boot firmly up their ass.
Lucas Ortiz
Cop detected. Guess what officer? Shits been popping off in Massachusetts. State troopers got busted stealing overtime and post dating tickets to.cover their tracks. The excuse being used is the quotas that had to be met. Having a quota for theft from civi6should be punishable by public hanging. There's no difference between cops and niggers.
My vision is of an all white "Mad Max" style police force with the single mission of keeping the black man down.
Nicholas Martinez
so people got tickets when they did nothing wrong? or did they get tickets for breaking the law and the cops just fudged the date?
Brody Collins
if you don't like using the state/federal roads and paying fees to use these roads, you are more than welcome to buy your own multi thousand mile long tracts of land and are also welcome to build roads on them to drive vehicles that are unregistered all without having a license
until then pay your fees to your state and shut the fuck up or get off your fat ass and walk
Ryder Butler
Those dreams must be better than dreaming about super sexy obedient women cooking the best food.
Carter Butler
Force is the final arbiter of all authority. The only point to memes like this is to push the dismantling of authority for the advantage of currently less powerful groups.
David Sanchez
>Prove me wrong. Pro tip: you can't. >When you grow up from teenage angst you can discuss this with men
>get ticket doing something dangerous that could've killed someone else >dont pay ticket, most likely around $100 >eventually get a warrant, making LE have to deal with you >go to jail or get in gun fight with cops, die "Violence was done to me" Words cannot describe how pedantic and childish this argument really is. This pseudo- philosophy is quite frankly embarrassing. You dont have the right to do whatever you want, there will always be consequences
>get ticket doing something dangerous that could've killed someone else Driving is at all times dangerous and can kill many someones. You pass within a foot or two of another vehicle at 40+mph, and you think you're safe?
Murder is always the answer. Prove me wrong, pro tip without a gun you can’t.
Justin Gutierrez
"Force is wrong, prove me wrong, except you're can't be force is not wrong"
Force your head through a window OP
Tyler Long
>bends over >drops pants >spreads butt cheeks >begin to push >brrrrrup brap brap >Pause then try again >mrrup brrapprrls is it trying to tell us somthing? Listen closer >butt cheeks beging flapping furiously Mrruh murrals >a look of extreme concentration forms on my face as my ass squeaks out in perfect english "Muh morals"
Brayden Green
>I don't care about the outcomes, I only care about morality and principal. Brainlet detected. It's morally just to commit an immoral action if the result of the immoral action is more desirable than the action. As it turns out I don't give much of a fuck if the state takes action against rapists if it means it will create a stable place to live.
Adam White
What do you say about the state police who pass you doing 85mph to get to their favorite hiding spot to ticket you for doing 75mph just to meet their quota?
That's not an argument. Driving faster than the speed limits can cause terrible accidents that didnt need to happen. The faster you go the worse the impact - and endangers others around you. Alot of accidents are inescapable. They are bound to happen, but that doesnt justify speeding
Chase Green
I've never had a ticket, but I still think it's bullshit since I've been hit by illegals that just run anyway, don't like the idea of being punished for compliance while others drive uninsured, unlicensed and unregistered.
Brayden Jones
They can get in trouble for that just like you
Logan Wright
Just to be clear, you're wanting to punish people for doing anything that could cause harm to others, yes?
Kayden Thompson
They never get in trouble for that. The only reason they got popped for quotas is from a separate investigation. Cops are niggers.
Isaac Hernandez
Well, not just anything. This is one of those things that I believe needs enforcement Yet, they do. Cops do get fired for breaking laws. It sounds like you're angry at a system that isnt working as it should, and not so much systems in general.
Juan Martinez
>muh roads >muh internet >muh NASA >muh safety net >muh labor laws >muh healthcare >muh constitution
B U M P
Gabriel Jones
>can
Lincoln Mitchell
What separates speeding from other things?
Tyler Phillips
I dont not believe in respecting the current biggest threat to our free republic. Do not forget who the enforcers are of the current unconstitutional laws. Red flag laws, high cap mag bans, dui checkpoints are all wildly unconstitutional.
Driving isn’t a right. Obey the law and stop being a nigger
Brandon Foster
>I don't care if literally billions would die in worldwide anarchy, DON'T FUCKING POLICE ME
Chase Wright
i agree to a degree;you're unironically boomer tier if you believe insurance isn't a fucking scam. i believe in insuring a car, but you have to be double digit iq if you think we're getting fair rates. it's bullshit. owning a car will soon be a luxury at this rate.
Jaxon Adams
>They never get in trouble for that You often make hyperbolic false statements that make you look retarded?
Samuel Hill
Wow. Is your father proud of raising such a weak man? Neither of you should feel good about yourselves with this level of statism.
I'm going to let you in on a secret. most road going vehicles(the ones you and I can afford) FAIL crash safety miserably at speeds of over 45mph. As in, vast majority fatal. Once you're going above a certain speed, your reaction time and ability to survive a crash no longer exist. If people knew this fact they probably wouldn't take driving so casually to begin with. If you're traveling down an interstate at normal speed, you are going to fast to react or to likely survive an accident.
Driving is a serious activity that idiots take lightly because they don't understand physics, reaction time, and they get lazy as they drive, day in and day out without much incident. A vehicle moving at 55mph on an interstate has a tremendous kinetic load that WILL be forced into your body and many other things if the vehicle crashes, and that energy is so strong it will likely kill you. So in all honesty, driving at 50, or at 90, are the same thing as far as a wreck goes. You're probably not surviving either, but the wreck at 90 will at least guarantee your death rather than possibly not killing you and just leaving you paralyzed for life like at 50.
If you wanna shit on speeding, tell people it's a gigantic waste of fuel, and thus money.
They do, from time to time. Sure, there is some corruption though. Make your point, I dont care for what you're doing. >Red flag laws, high cap mag bans, dui checkpoints are all wildly unconstitutional. Sure. >Do not forget who the enforcers are of the current unconstitutional laws The point of the thread wasnt the current condition of law enforcement, but the isolated concept OF law enforcement. Besides all that, we are free and this isnt a republic. You are giving off those patriotard boomer vibes I hate so dearly.
Jonathan Reyes
Show me one article of a cop getting in trouble for just speeding in a cruiser. I'll wait.
The United states isnt a Republic? You may want to look some stuff up.
Parker Gray
I don't have a point. I'm trying to learn what you actually believe.
Ethan Gutierrez
belief
Christian White
Okay, so you're really complaining about people getting penalized for speeding, after all that? >If you wanna shit on speeding, tell people it's a gigantic waste of fuel, and thus money. But getting a fat ticket that would cost people money is stupid? Or do I have you all wrong?
Andrew James
Nice argument. Now stop acting like a nigger You think it would make the news? We are reaching levels of retardation I didn’t think possible
Kayden Richardson
Actually driving is NOT a right because too many retarded faggots have proven themselves incapable of properly using a vehicle. But, I'm sure that the lolbertarian notion that a drunk should be able to swerve through the roads legally with a .3 BAC taking out people along the way is a good thing, amirite?
It's a republic in name only. The USA is really governed by a satanic elite that determine elections. I see. Your question was ambiguous, so I wont answer it. I'll tell you though, that I am very authoritarian in my beliefs. I'd ban many things, but yet penalize more effectively than modern society.
Adrian King
living in society implies sacrifices
if those brainlet dont put their seatbelts they might get injured easier and guess whos paying for their care? in europe (unfortunately sometimes its not the person)
so you cansay what you want but without this racketting most people wouldnt put their seatbelts
Ayden Howard
Cops do not get in trouble for speeding. Prove me wrong. Pussy.
That's a stretch from what I said. I like how you jump right into the worst case scenario to try and pull out a "it's for your safety argument" that cops love so much.
If you want speeding to be banned because it unnecessarily increases the risk of harm happening to people, why don't you want all activities that unnecessarily increase the risk of harm happening to people to be banned?
You implied driving is a right and should not be a privilege. Rather than give an actual reason other than MUH OPINION, you dodged it. It's cute when the lolbertarians actually believe everything is a "right" but yet can't actually describe the how or why of it and get pissy when they're exposed. So, please tell me why a person who gets caught driving drunk repeated times should have the right to keep driving. I'm interested in what sort of retard-tier logic will defend your absolutist beliefs.
Blake Diaz
everyone drives all the time, on driver can kill others drivers, and it also affects the economy because thats also what roads are made for, to transport merchandise
Joseph Davis
An investigation after a cop already killed someone. And how did it work out?
"The families received 500 dashcam clips, including footage of an officer on a call racing at 113 mph in a 45 mph zone. He was suspended.
But then the Milford Police Department said that it had accidentally deleted 2,000 other clips"
Yup. You really showed me. These cops are true heros.
I never implied shit. I just mocked you for being a statist.
Brody King
bootlickers deserve rope.
Kevin Ross
>why don't you want all activities that unnecessarily increase the risk of harm happening to people to be banned? Good question. You just simply cant do that. There are too many variables to take into account for such an absolute. It's just not practical to do that, or even think like that. The only I can see working is to take things on a case by case basis. Example: Driving a car in general shouldn't be banned because there are a plethora of benefits to society, that outweigh their negative aspects. However, the misuse of a motor vehicle should be penalized due to the unnecessary injuries, death, and destruction it can cause. There is a difference between what can be avoided, and what (practically) cannot be avoided.
Chase Young
police should only be around to protect and serve, not collect revenue for the state and oppress the people.
Tyler Baker
>defacing the flag That flag is meant to show support for Law enforcement. Also called the Thin Blue Line.
Evan Mitchell
No, you mocked someone else, I made fun of your retarded position, and here we are. So, you DON'T believe driving is a right and should be a privilege? Cool, you're not as retarded as you seemed then!
Carter Hill
You must've, "missed" the part of the article that reported that an officer was FIRED FOR SPEEDING. You made the retarded statement, were proved wrong, and now you must eat your words.
Jaxson Sullivan
false their are also here so people apply the law by the threat of fines people put their seatbelt
Wyatt Hughes
if you think any inconvenience is against your freedom go with your tribe in a secluded forest, to become stronger with alliances you always have to leave some things behind, clearly the speeding tickets are not the problem of our soeciety
Cameron Evans
I've got to be honest, I really dont mind police having their own flag. I do not believe they rate our beautiful American flag. Not with how they treat our constitution. But it definitely help reinforce the "us vs. them" mindset.
