What attracts women to abusive guys insomuch that they are willing to either tolerate or ignore their negative aspects...

They just want a bit of the good and bad boy . In all honesty they are just stupid as fuck .
They like the violence its manly and is attractive for them . Some are just fucked up though. Woman just want a strong Hand leading them .
I practice what I call based abuse or mental abuse .
Woman just want that .

Look like I said they are stupid as fuck . Woman ain't shit

Like you idiots don't lust after 10/10 super cunts. Get real. At least my motives are better than getting your ugly cocks wet.

Nope never I like my 5-8/10 average nice girl from next door . And you sound petty as fuck dumb cunt .
Ugly cock keked (look at pic woman.exe stops working yes its me )

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Hey you arrogant asshole, your moles look like pieces of shit stuck to you.

>yes its me

the arrogance is actually pretty funny

Thanks if my body ever gets blown up they see my shit and know its me :)
And thanks for the compliment
That's the spirit

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I think that perhaps women lack a "center". They rarely develop an inner sense of self, or if they do it's on an extremely childish (read: selfish) level. I think most women are attracted not to abuse or violence, necessarily, they're attracted to an inner sense of direction, which often gets lumped into one big trait called "confidence". Women don't know what they want, and they'd rather be in an abusive situation as long as the man seems to know what he's doing in life vs. a comfortable environment where they're expected to be a truly equal partner. Saying this as a woman btw, inb4 misogyny.

Very good explanation actually your an Ehrenmann(frau) Weib . But this sums it up pretty good I'd say

Have you even read any posts here?

Men here lack souls, they don't even have a center and you're projecting about being childish. Guys here post frogs and memes.

Instinctual need for a violent mate in order to protect them.

t. woman lacking a center

Don't speak German, no idea what you just called me.

I've been on Jow Forums since before Jow Forums was created. I'm familiar with the archetypical user, but I've also gotten to know a lot of them on a more personal level than just anonymous shitposting. Very few of them are really men, they're just boys and a lot of them have been so battered down by life that they've all but given up. The older I get and the closer I get to motherhood, the more sympathy I feel for them. A lot of them just want love, or some kind of softness and warmth.

As for frog memes, at least the boys are making OC. What are the women doing? Taking selfies and falling for low quality trolls.

Heh. Wife is washing dishes right now

based and redpilled.

I do agree with much of your positing, and I reckon it can be expanded upon.

I'm unsure of whether or not this is conscious or unconscious, but most women seem to thrive on discipline, the emotional distance of a man (resultant of a lack of investment in that regard, coupled with a disregard for the consequences of his actions), and a sheer display of confidence in self. It's no surprise, due to a number of factors, that a girl lacking an authority figure in her life wanders astray morally. It's no surprise that a girl in a relationship with a man (or boy, relatively speaking) who treats her like the most important thing in the world will inevitably lose her.

It's obvious to me, based on so many facts, so many things, that though one may argue that perhaps women are inferior, or that they are naturally desired to be submissive for evolution's sake, that it is a natural role for men to uphold to be the caretaker, to be principled, to have a strong plan and, most undoubtedly importantly, to be a leader.

I think you're confusing a guy being ugly for emotional depth.

An honorary woman (Ehrenfrau) its something positive

I think that broadly speaking, what you wrote is true. That's the advice I would give my boys, don't be afraid to lead, be unwavering in your sense of purpose. But my gripe is really with modern society. Girls aren't given good examples of what a woman should be. Women don't have to be morally weak, nor do I think they're inherently inferior. Women may tend to be more emotionally volatile in general but I think they're also more emotionally resilient than men. It seems to me that the average man wants the praise and love of one woman, and when they get burned it takes them a lot longer to get back up. Both are fragile in different ways.

I think women in past generations understood this; my grandma always told me it was important for a woman to thank her husband for doing little stupid shit that needed to be done anyway. I didn't understand what she meant until I moved past my mid-20s. I started practicing/demonstrating gratitude and it's kind of shocking what difference that makes.

A lot of them aren't ugly, they just think they are.

But I think you're confusing my sympathy for some kind of submissive, male deference shit. I don't think there's much emotional depth there, that's why I call them boys. There's a lot of anger and resentment, and a lot of them are afraid to even try because their futures seem inevitable (even if it's not).

And furthermore I think you're confusing my acceptance of general observances for something else. If you don't like what's been written then change yourself. If you see valid criticism and it bothers you, ask yourself why instead of immediately going on the offensive. Then make a motherfucking change ya dumb betch.

Outside of obvious stuff like looks and sense of direction; mostly due cultural factors.

Women are taught to worship men, tolerate shitty behaviour against them as normal and look for positives, so some get absorbed into the brainwashing and see it as their purpose to fix some asshole. Additionally there is the flow of a relationship.

An abusive partner is rarely abusive 24/7, often they do have a nice phase which feels even more rewarding after one of the abusive episodes. Compare it to other entertainment, say a TV show like GoT, most of the episodes are full of shit happening to the characters yet people keep watching for the few bright spots.

Lol women have more freedom than ever and they're still shacking up with abusive men despite literally everyone in their life telling them broken bones aren't worth the price of good sex, but they don't care because violence is attractive to women.

>women have more freedom than ever
Legally maybe, culturally not that much has changed, specially if we talk about backwards shitholes in the first world like Murica.

>despite literally everyone in their life
Most people falling for an abusive partner are isolated already, majority of the rest will eventually get isolated by the partner.

>broken bones aren't worth the price of good sex
Both are pretty rare in abusive relationshits.

>because violence is attractive to women.
What do you consider attractive about violence?

>Women are taught to worship men
Lol, that's why they reject and ghost nice guys like me, right? Go kill yourself, worthless cunt. I hope you end up chopped to pieces by one of the assholes you date. Bet reading this gets your bleeding axe wound dripping wet already.

>emotionally resilient
In a way, I suppose. In the forgiving sense I would reckon, not insomuch as being able to bear a large burden, but the ability to willingly forget. It's a special ability, something that is echoed in a general inability to take accountability unless absolutely forced to by some outside force.

MEN, user. Even most abusive shitheads have some sort of redeeming trait unlike beta orbiters.

>culturally not that much has changed, specially if we talk about backwards shitholes in the first world like Murica.
Okay, move to a very progressive country such as germany or sweden and watch yourself get raped by a pack of migrants.

Or perhaps move to a more regressive country in ooga-boogaland (Africa) and get beheaded by terrorists and have your corpse raped.

America is an absolutely backwards country, simply the worst.

>watch yourself get raped by a pack of migrants.
Way less likely than in Burgerstan.
>ooga-boogaland
Bretty sure I specified the first world.

Yeah, nothing about this post could point to why women reject and ghost you.
Good thing you clarified you think you are a nice guy, otherwise you would seem horrible.

They're men too. What are you even trying to do here? "hur durr beta orbiters aren't men XD"

yes, but neither does germany or sweden qualify as first world these days either.

>way less likely
Kek, okay

no, they're just repressed little beta-boys.

No idea. So many women act like they spot and avoid abusive men like the plague and say they want to find a guy who treats them right. Fast forward a bit and all you’ll hear about it is the abuse they suffered at the hands of someone everyone knew was a cunt but just happened to slip by the infallible red flag detectors women claim to have. They’ll get no sympathy from me when they come for advice or help. Make fun of “white knights” and then go looking for them when they’re broken and want someone to prop them up and be an emotion tampon. It’s fucking pathetic. I feel the same way towards my guy friends who thought they could make things work with crazy strumpets and surprise surprises it goes down in flames.
The effort some people go through to make things work with anyone who’d treat them lesser than equal can rarely even be explained by the victims themselves. I don’t buy the “they were completely different in the beginning” spiel. Only met one guy in my life that was able to mask the absolute psycho he was behind closed doors, but other than that rare case it’s easy to spot that shit in someone. However, I know for damn sure sane intelligent women don’t go for that or at the very least get out right when they see it. No one with any self respect would put up with that shit, so avoid women who’ve been in abusive relationships at all costs. They truly are damaged goods (pun intended).

Beta orbiters don't register as men. They are somewhere between children and sentient rabid dogs.

>women being awful as usual
Just another fun day on Jow Forums - Feminism and Normalfags

If women were attracted to abusive guys how come incels don't get girls? They are the most abusive of them all.

>incels being retarded as usual
How can we get them off this site? They have been an invading cancer ever since they got kicked off reddit.

Go back to whatever Hell you came from, bitch.

the fuck is your problem

Jesus you’re a retard. Not even defending the “nice guy” user, but don’t encourage the idea that being an abusive pos is more appealing than being a beta orbiter. Not that the latter is good at all, but you’re reinforcing negative attitudes about how they should be treating women. The reality is that there’s this perfect place in the middle called being a “good person”. Of course it’s Jow Forums so everything is one extreme or another, but it’s so far from reality. I think a beta orbiter generally has way more potential for growing into a better person. I never hear about abusive or manipulative people changing their ways and if they do it’s only a temporary act to reel their toy back in.

He's an incel. He has low intelligence and is likely underaged.

Men can lower the cuckoldry risk by beating their women. Women want sons who avoid getting cucked.

I’m confused. How can incels be abusive to the people they’re afraid to even approach? Did the definition of incel change while I’ve been away or something?

>but don’t encourage the idea that being an abusive pos is more appealing than being a beta orbiter
How is stating a fact encouraging anything? Saying that nazis who actually go to demonstrations with tiki torches are more attractive than nazis who sit in their basements jerking off to their blacked folder, isn't a statement in support of nazism.

>you’re reinforcing negative attitudes about how they should be treating women
By pointing out how shitty thing A isn't as unappealing as shitty thing B? Come on.

>The reality is that there’s this perfect place in the middle called being a “good person”.
Which isn't the fucking topic. OP asked how shitty people can still find people attracted to them. We're not discussing what makes someone a better partner but how shitty partners get theirs.

>I think a beta orbiter generally has way more potential for growing into a better person
Sure but for one it's not the topic, and more important the "nice guy user" is clearly beyond that and closer to inceldom, which obviously isn't an inescapable pit either but beyond unlikely anytime soon for him.

They tend to harass non incels. Going by the bizarre logic that abusive behaviour is attractive, surely women harassed by incels actually wanted to date them?

Incels rage all day long on the internet about wanting to rape and murder women, how is that not being abusive?

In the women's eyes, incels are abusive just based on the fact that they dare to criticize the hypergamous behaviour of modern women. Women are perfect pussyflowers, you hear that?

>saying mean things is abusive

Nice digits wasted on such a retarded post. Incels are abusive because they angrily shout how rape should be legal and how they want to shoot up a school.

>hypergamous behaviour of modern women
Explain in your own words what that word salad is supposed to mean.

pic unrelated

starting this off im only 15, and still have a lot to figure out emotionally but I've had this on my mind a lot.

I'm not really happy in life, but I don't feel depressed. the things I used to love doing (videogames, skateboarding, etc) are still fun and feel fulfilling like they were before, but no matter what I do, I feel completely emotionless.

I have a good circle of friends, I have no trauma or abuse in my personal history, I live in an upper middle-class family, there is absolutely nothing in my life that would warrant any depression.

but no matter what i do im not really happy, and feelings of happiness are very temporary

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it's because you lack direction; you lack goals. You have no ambition. It's honestly no surprise you feel the way you do.

Are you a girl?

Means that women are incapable of love and loyalty, and are always looking to trade up from their current partner.

So you are using words without even knowing what they mean. You also are unaware that modern women have less sex than previous generations. In other words literally everything you said is wrong. Think about it for a minute, everything you know about women comes from memes of basement-dwelling incels who have never even talked to a girl. Why do you think they would know shit?

Strength. They see someone willing to use force to deal with problems, and especially to a person who's already emotionally damaged, that provides a sense of security, however misguided. The abusers also tend to have an external aura of decisiveness, which is again a magnet for someone seeking security.

>Women are taught to worship men
fucking kek
That's pure nonsense.
To the old-style religious conservatives, "worship" would only ever be applicable to male heads-of-household, not men in general, and then it's not the best term to use. You'd also need your parent's approval to get married, in the case of these """backwards""" cultures, and the parents would not be thrilled to hand over their daughter to an abusive, directionless fuckhead. That's something that fathers have wished they could resolve with a firearm for decades, even centuries--when their daughters pick complete goobers to fool around with instead of someone respectable.

The only thing you can possibly argue is that women (in only the most conservative communities, almost none of which are in the West) are encouraged to deal with 'minor' abuse from spouses, because breaking up a marriage is seen as worse. That's not the case in the West as a whole, where the first fucking thing women are told to do, if they don't like any aspect of their marriage, is to divorce. It's entirely the opposite of what you say.

>You also are unaware that modern women have less sex than previous generations.
This is a statistical blip if you compare it to any generation before the boomers, where waiting until marriage was still the expected norm.
The decrease from the degeneracy of the 90s is minuscule, and it's still common across Western countries for average partner counts to be in the double digits.

Don't bother calling me an incel, I want nothing to do with those who claim their lack of fornication is "involuntary". Your point is simply flawed.

>waiting until marriage was still the expected norm
You should not get your knowledge of social history from a bunch of basement-dwelling incels on Jow Forums.

And if you do nothing but blindly repeat incel mantras then expect to get called an incel.

>why can't I just be rude to people and they love me back?????
The intelligence of a woman everyone.

That's what incels do dumbass

>why can't I just rage about wanting to rape and murder women and they love me back????
The intelligence of an incel everyone.

dude, you are so fucking delusional it's unbelievable.

You blew up on this guy calling him a bitch and to return to hell for literally nothing.

You're riding on so many fucking assumptions it astonishes me at your absolute lack of mental aptitude

>call everyone an incel and that they need to leave
>>>BUT HE WAS LITERALLY DOING NOTHING????
Normalfags have the intelligence of an ant. It's a good thing we keep them from having any money.

Say what? You are a NEET of low intelligence with zero power.

If I'm low intelligence that must make you legally retarded.

>How is stating a fact encouraging anything
Because it’s not a fact at all. Abusive men in particular are considered the lowest of the low especially amongst men. Call it a white knight mentality all you want but those kind of guys are just as, if not more, weak and cowardly than these basement dwellers you hate, and where I was raised they’d get their fucking ass handed to them by any man with integrity who took notice of their behavior.

>We're not discussing what makes someone a better partner but how shitty partners get theirs
Yeah well I’m drunk and moreso just trying to call bullshit on your assessment of abusers being more appealing. The fact that they’re abusive isn’t what made them appealing. They put themselves out there like regular men do and slowly unload that shit after finding a weak person who eventually only sticks around out of fear, or most commonly, children with that person. Basement dwelling depressives might not be sexually appealing, but the fact that they don’t ruin lives makes them a lot more appealing as a person.

>By pointing out how shitty thing A isn't as unappealing as shitty thing B
Honestly this thread is fucked. Straight up telling incels, who love to have their ideas of women enjoying being treated like garage confirmed, that abusers are more appealing is just feeding the flames of their fucked up ideas. Their entire ideology is so flimsy and ridiculous that it falls apart when they actually meet women that aren’t just roleplaying dudes on Internet forums. But go ahead and tell them how horrible they are while at the same time confirming their stupid shit. I can’t be the only one seeing the hypocrisy here.

What makes you think you are smart, when you can't even get a job or a gf?

you are an incel and you need to leave, because you write like some obsessed teenage-fag

Lol the whole "nice guys are the worst meme" is literally a confirmation that being an abuser is more appealing as long as you're attractive. Like actually dissect the whole "nice guys are just assholes in disguise" shit and it's just confirmation that women don't give a shit.

Who needs a gf when I have money and hookers?

Why don't you leave? Reddit is a great place for normalniggers like you.

I hate to break it to you, but I'm not a normalfag, and I just think you're retarded

>You should not get your knowledge of social history from a bunch of basement-dwelling incels on Jow Forums
Blow it out your ass, retard. You can see the CDC data yourself, where even AFTER the sexual """revolution""", in the 1970s, a quarter of women only had sex after marriage, and another 40% only had sex with their spouse. If you spent one one-hundredth the amount of time searching this topic rather than exploring your own colon, you would see that modern sexual amorality is a complete aberration.

>if you do nothing but blindly repeat incel mantras
What are you talking about, you blithering idiot? The only thing I did was say that some evidence which the incels use is factual. It has nothing to do with the conclusions to be drawn, not that it would make you any less infantile for throwing out pointless and inaccurate labels to anyone who dares disagree with you.

I am not "involuntarily" celibate, I don't know how to get it through your thick skull. Call me what you will, that doesn't make me any less right in saying that the past few generations of people (not just women) have been far more degenerate than their forebears. Don't pretend that, even if I were an "incel", you aren't full of shit.

How do you have money when you're not smart enough to get a job?

>To the old-style religious conservatives
I don't mean extremes like these, and sure "worship" was exaggerated for artistic purposes but even outside of conservative circles, women are usually presented as accessories to men. The wife, the girlfriend, the girl of the group. The assistant/secretary if she's extra respected. People value typical male roles more, people see males as more complex characters, and pay more attention to male opinions, even somewhat progressive newspapers generally use male experts when they need soundbites outside of topic like feminism.

Generally it's pretty subtle IR and is hard to notice since we're taught how normal it is, but media offers a simplified mirror; and basically every popular story has an active male and some passive female in the background. And sure, it's 2k19, so she's allowed to have her moments but generally only as a part of some males narrative.

>an abusive, directionless fuckhead
Most abusers don't present themselves like Cletus from the trailer park.

>where the first fucking thing women are told to do, if they don't like any aspect of their marriage
On some feminist forum maybe. In more mainstream spaces, it has to be blatant to be even acknowledged. They are constantly expected to pander to male insecurities with their choice of clothing, friends and activities. Plus obviously crap like doing most of the chores.

Link to that CDC data. The actual data, not incel meme graphs.

I was smart enough to not get a job.

>giving up requires intelligence
lol okay there genius, don't get too out of hand with your massive brains.
Wouldn't want you to out-compete Einstein or something

>thinking you're smart because you're selling your most valuable resource, time, for a pittance

currently you're selling your most valuable resource, time, for nothing but emotional gratification.

I don't reckon you're making a man of yourself by doing so though.

Yeah, I get to enjoy myself and make money sitting on my ass doing nothing, and you get to work for a boss you hate and serve me. Thanks, but no thanks, I'll pass on that life.

Your crypto will crash and then you will be poor and unemployable. Not very smart of you.

he's talking about welfare checks and being a leech on society

>Abusive men in particular are considered the lowest of the low especially amongst men.
If they are physical abusers or overly blatant psychological abusers; if they keep it low, it's generally perfectly accepted.
The guy who's trying to rape some drunk chick is going to get called out by somewhat normal people, the guy bitching about "sexy selfies" not so much.

>The fact that they’re abusive isn’t what made them appealing.
No one is saying that.

>but the fact that they don’t ruin lives makes them a lot more appealing as a person.
You have to actually do something for that. Even ruining lives takes some effort. Something they can't be assed with. It's not like their integrity causes them to be less shitty people.

>Honestly this thread is fucked.
The topic is actually pretty interesting. Incels will manage to turn any idea to something that supports their delusion; you can have a "best dildo thread" and they will bitch about how women prefer dildos over them.

>women enjoying being treated like garage
Which once again was never suggested. Only why women tend to tolerate it in some cases. Which is just pure facts: Some women are in abusive relationships. It doesn't suggest that women seek these out for anyone with half a brain. And AFAIK it's generally a lot more common with women, hence it doesn't hurt to explore the WHYs. If some brainlet leaves with the conclusion that he needs to be even more abusive, it's not the fault of the topic.

>welfare
>being a leech
Maximum kekus.

>"nice guys are the worst meme" is literally a confirmation that being an abuser is more appealing as long as you're attractive
But that’s not true. The “nice guy” shit is just calling out guys who act like they’re different from fuckbois and then go full 180 when they get turned down and revealing that they were putting on an act just like the assholes they claim to be so different from. It is fucked that a decent portion of women nowadays are suspicious of any act of decency shown to them as possibly just being a charade to get them into bed. Used to be common knowledge that normal guys don’t really play games like that but these days women are told to suspect men of possibly being manwhores, rapists, or murders in the early stages. They love to mock incels for being dumb and bigoted, but the same amount if not more women hold just as many unwarranted biases towards men.

It's hardly unwarranted though, is it? "Nice guys" are painfully common and a girl who never experienced one, is likely to fall for the shit, which is bound to affect how she views men who display similar traits in the future. If she isn't too stupid, she'll learn how to tell them apart from genuine people either way.

The direct data is here:
cdc.gov/nchs/nsfg/nsfg_cycle1.htm
(downloadable data file, click accept for the terms of privacy)
If anyone can figure out how to read the .dat and .asc files, I'd be quite appreciative, but from indirect sources you can see the same thing.

For example:
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1802108/
This gives a very good overview of recent trends--keep in mind that when it says "X% of adults had premarital sex by age Y", it's referring to those adults who did not yet marry by that age. It's not saying that ALL adults are fornicating--just those who could still potentially have premarital sex; for example, it means that if you are unmarried at 40, you're exceedingly unlikely to have waited until marriage. Not that all 40-year-olds fornicated, regardless of when they married.

The most pertinent quote is
>" The figure and table show a trend from the 1950s through the 1990s toward a higher proportion experiencing premarital sex: 48% of the cohort who turned 15 from 1954 to 1963 had done so by exact age 20, while 65% of the 1964–73 cohort, 72% of the 1974–83 cohort, and 76% of the 1984–93 cohort had done so. For the 1994–2003 cohort, 74% had had premarital sex by exact age 20, a figure between that of the 1974–83 and 1984–93 cohorts. The difference between the first cohort and subsequent ones was larger than later differences."
>trend from the 1950s through the 1990s toward a higher proportion experiencing premarital sex
I.e. what I said initially.

Oh, well if you're talking about social roles, then it's just obvious. Men have a broader array of capabilities. While they can and should be upright with respect to families, they have greater potential in other uses as the muscle of society. That's totally different from 'worshipping' men, though, and that really threw me off.

I don't see what this has to do with encouraging women to tolerate abuse, however. If we're going off of cultural tropes, the exact opposite can also be found in abundance, with stuff like the 'damsel in distress'. Passive agents, like you said, but the implication is still that their current state wouldn't be desirable.

The big driver there is that in the 1950s people also got married far quicker. Waiting for years for sex is a modern invention.

What the fuck do you think an abusive relationship is? Being neglectful or a little controlling isn’t healthy, but it’s not abuse. My experiences with abusive relationships was never bullshit like not letting their partner post lewd pics or making them cut contact with male friends, it was some hellish shit that truely lived up to the word abuse. That shit doesn’t happen on the front lawn and rarely leaves a battered face unless it’s a drunkard or junkie who doesn’t care. The word appealing is the exact opposite word to describe that shit, so either you bitches are using abuse as a blanket term for any dysfunctional and/or relationship behaviors, or you don’t know what you’re talking about. Even the craziest kinky laydees I know would fuck a fat basement dweller verses living with a man who fucks with their mental well-being while making them fear for their safety. Go volunteer at a women’s shelter and it should give you a decent idea of how appealing an abuser is as a partner.

> also got married far quicker.
Not really. The baby boom aside (where it dipped almost to 20), Western marriages have historically been in the range of 20-27 for the woman, depending on demographic and economic factors (i.e. cities had relatively higher ages than rural farms). It's currently 27-29, iirc.
There's a shift, yes, but it is greatly overshadowed by the willingness of people to fornicate--waiting until your mid-20s to marry and have sex was nothing out of the ordinary, even at the height of the baby boom.

For more information on this, you can search "Western European Marriage Pattern", which is basically the case for the US as well, it being a genetically European nation until recently.

> genetically European nation until recently.
Whatever helps Amerimutts sleep I guess

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Memes aside, we were. We were at minimum 80% white until a few decades after Hart-Celler.

Ah yes the "because I said so" source

I'm fuckin' white!
My grandparents were from Argentina!

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