>’The solution is not for the rich western countries to receive all immigrants; but somehow to try to change the situation which creates massive waves of immigration’ >’For example, do you know about South Africa? Its a terrifying situation on the edge of civil war. The only thing that really happened with the end of apartheid is that the old ruling class was joined by a new black ruling class, which is not doing a good job, so they are trying to play the race card.’
This isn’t left or right, this is common sense. I think Zizek is more rational than Petersen.
The real question is "why do asians call poop 'buttmeat'?"
I mean it is like you try to explain to them they are not supposed to eat it.. but they just tell you "what? it's buttmeat!". Then they continue to eat it while looking at you like you're the idiot in the conversation.
Jack Mitchell
It wasn even a fair fight... Rip penis washing advocator
Adrian Lee
The "situation" which creates massive waves of immigration is that they are getting the means to flee their shitholes. As they get more and more money, they leave more and more. Which means that the more we help them, the more they come until their shitholes become good enough for them to stay in, but how long will that takes?
Bentley Barnes
Anti white Peterson got owned by pro white Zizek.
Landon Edwards
Based Zizek.
Brody Diaz
Can u kys mate, i beg of you
Matthew Allen
I got a plan: underwater mines in the Mediterranean
lol at the pic
Austin Garcia
The “new confessions of an economic” hit man goes into why many of these places are shit holes. Granted he is a liberal cuck and fails to attack many of his liberal friends who do the same thing but I digress. They only way to effectively handle this is massive population control. If the local area can’t feed who’s there population needs to stop growing. Then you can attempt to solve the local problems. Currently the population growth is causing starvation which is impacting brain growth. What ever genetic issues they have are being compounded by lack of nutrition in childhood.
Kayden Butler
This is such an asinine point.
The left really can't stomach the fact that some nations are just shitholes and the people there suck enough on average that the nation becomes a shithole and remains as such no matter how much money is thrown at them. He wants to make the case that the west basically needs to subsidize the existence of these people forever. But they fucking leave the second they get the chance. It's the national equivalent of holding the smart kids back because the dumb kids can't keep up and having to dumb everything down because you can only have one class.
Why doesn't the left ever ask itself why it feels all people have a constant political and material obligation to the third world. And give an answer that isn't just "muh racism", fuck heads.
More based gems from Zizek. If only he was a left winger.
Adam Evans
I'll have to listen to this later, but I don't think it's right to frame the South African problem as a problem of the ruling elite. It's a racial problem that the west are unwilling to accept as such, because that would undermine the open society that is the heart of capitalism today.
He's an authentic enough communist to know forced immigration is bad for the workers.
Alexander Stewart
Zizek >anti immigration to white countries >anti lgbtq >anti SJW >anti niggers in South Africa >anti Jewish capitalism
Peterson >clean your room goyim
Levi Bennett
Daily reminder that Zizek is an actual Neo-Reactionary at this point, and more Right Wing than Joe "Agenda 21" Peterson.
jacobitemag.com/2018/05/02/slipping-slavoj/ >Leftists recoil at his name. Academics think he’s made himself into a factory of lazy, watered-down philosophy for bite-sized consumption. Activists think he’s betrayed the left on political correctness and made overtures to fascism. Though still well-known enough to pen frequent op-eds, he no longer commands the influence on the left he once did. His appearances in The Guardian and In These Times seem to have stopped since last year, and now Zizek contributes more regularly to RT. He has, reluctantly, found a new audience — one that shares his taste for shocking provocation and esoteric philosophical arguments against the scolding mantras of political correctness. Zizek has become a neoreactionary philosopher.
Samuel Price
>’The solution is not for the rich western countries to receive all immigrants; but somehow to try to change the situation which creates massive waves of immigration’ >’For example, do you know about South Africa? Its a terrifying situation on the edge of civil war. The only thing that really happened with the end of apartheid is that the old ruling class was joined by a new black ruling class, which is not doing a good job, so they are trying to play the race card.’
The thing is what are immigrants fleeing from and what are they fleeing towards. They want the outcome of capitalism and democracy and the extreme wealth that brings (even to the "poor" in these countries) but they do not want to actually go through the process of implementing that themselves. It's like the kid who wants the cake but doesn't want to go through the process of baking one themselves, they simply want to come and take your cake.
If you look at the history of western nations, we went through IMMENSE amounts of blood, sweat and tears to try all these different ways of organizing and then those ways competing violently against one another until one finally won out (democracy + capitalism) and now we've got these stable and prosperous societies which is the cake at the end of a very long baking process. And the immigrants just want to wade into our countries and take it.
What they need to do is build that same structure where they are, like we did where we are, and that means going through all of the same problems and troubles that we went through, it mights fighting to defend what is yours and what works. If these people do not share the values and all they want is the outcome, then all that happens when we import them is that our country just becomes a 3rd world shithole like theirs is.
There's no patent on democracy and capitalism, you can implement them anywhere.
Elijah Long
To stop immigration yes you have to stop their countries from being shitty, but western-israeli media has spent the last 10+ in branding anything like this as racism. Even now in Africa there are more and more rebel groups who despise western help.
How will you do it then? If you help you are despised, if you don' t do anything you get immigrants.
And don' t forget that in most cases shitty people make shitty goverments, intelligence levels aside. African leaders are among the most corrupt world wide.
Oliver Morris
>I think Zizek is more rational than Petersen. you didn't have to watch a 2 hour debate to know that. a few youtube videos of each of them would have told you.
Bentley Jenkins
> Even now in Africa there are more and more rebel groups who despise western help.
And Chinese "help", too.
Easton Hall
Zizek is perhaps right in theory, but the problem is in practice. His ideas will be torn apart before they ever get a chance to be executed because the people willing to enact it are some of the worst incompetent scum humanity has to offer. Zizek will be sent to the gulag by his own followers on the second day.
Elijah Perez
There was no such migration from the middle east in the 60s, back when there was genuine hope for development and political culture there. Wars, fundamentalism, have destroyed the region
David Morgan
Zizek >literally everything at the same time >but covered in spit
Michael Ortiz
Peterson shows what a hack he is "Ive read the communist manifesto once when I was 18, and once to prepare for the debate." Well, it shows. He lacks even the most base understanding of Marxist ideas (or even classical economics in tot). "The capitalist adds value through his work as manager" he dictates smugly, not even realizing that by this he admits they do not add any value as _capitalists_. And so on, it's a fucking embarrassment.
I dont know when Peterson went sjw (I dont follow him) but man he sounded like a jew last night.
Gabriel Richardson
We live in a global economy, you may not like it, but even shithole countries have important roles in global supply chains. What would we do without cobalt from the congo
Mason Martin
NAZBOL *sniffles* GANG ARICHE
Kevin Lee
There was no debate about Marxism idiot. Zizek conceded Marxism is an failed and evil Jewish ideology.
Blake Wilson
The thing is we dont need Africans to take resources from Africa lol, if Africans were dead or would actually be less complicated getting cobalt from the Congo.
Chase Ortiz
He was right about the communist manifesto being poorly written though
Benjamin James
>I dont know when Peterson went sjw From the start? All of his mewling about Bill C-16 and pronouns was a manufactured controversy to propel him in the spotlight as some level headed, TradCon intellectual when in reality he's a Left-Liberal stooge that doesn't hold any actual right wing positons IRL. He's managed by the CAA Hollywood talent agency, and is a speaking guest at the Trilateral Commission.
He's a Globalist stooge
Ethan Johnson
If theres one thing you should gather from zizek it's that there is no coherent they here. The ruling class in south Africa is distinct from the rest of the population and its they who cannot pull things off because they are busy pursuing their own gain. Yes, often the historical oppression narrative is used as a crutch and a shield from criticism, but there is no essential black African nature which prevents economic and political development. Senegal has managed its politics very well because it actually had a history of self rule even in colonial times, Ethiopia has been one of the fastest growing economies for the past dozen years or so
Nathan Myers
True, which Marx and Engels admitted in the various reprints. The communist manifesto is a polemic, written before Marx had fully developed his ideas, not a foundational text of Marxism.
Nolan Watson
Just like Lenin! How poetic!
Chase Gutierrez
Peterson is not a match for Zizek's very deep thought, that's why Jordan can never win that. Nothing against Peterson, I love them both. The truth is that very few people are gifted with such deep philosophical thinking like Zizek. Also he's like Peterson said "a character" and a pop culture star of our times.
Ryder Cox
If Africans were dead the cost of getting that cobalt would skyrocket because of the lower labor supply and higher levels of development in the places actually supplying the labor.
Daniel Rivera
>but somehow to try to change the situation which creates massive waves of immigration’
What creates the waves of immigration are traitor ''leaders''
Isaiah Martin
they are both absolute mouth-breathing naive little children compared to me, I could demolish both of them with a simple "why?" question
Carter Diaz
Peterstain is a shit debater and should stop trying to present himself as the voice for the right or conservatism since he is neither and doing a shit job.
Some of those countries have democracy and capitalism, and it shit on them, corperations rape their land and pay them nothing, while shipping the profits to rich fucks in America, they need national socialism.
Angel Lee
stability of a white government filled with white people building white infrastructure that would attract investment would over a decade or two lower extraction costs.
The main detriment to it being colonized by whites is whites instituting Environmental regulations for cobalt mining.
Adam Hughes
Sure I agree there's more nuance to the groups and yes in many cases you have either dictators or ruling classes. But my point was that overthrowing them and establishing democracy is the path to getting what the west has because we had to go through the same thing ourselves, we had to fight dictators inside our own borders, we had to use violence to overthrow the bad elements inside our communities and it's through that process of essentially competition of ideas and values that the victor emerges successful. And in that paintful process what you're doing is culling all the bad values in that society.
We can't just have these people flood across europe and set up camp in our contries if they do not share the same values as us because if the day ever comes where we have to defend our values again they aren't going to be fighting beside us, they're cowards who sooner flee struggle rather than face it head on and we don't want that in our nations.
It's no surprise that it's the left wing that this appeals to because they're so temperamentally high in trait Neuroticism and high in trait Agreeableness specifically the Compassion aspect. And it's this that has gone out of control, they want to eliminate the suffering, so it's all "refugees welcome" but it's pathological because they want to avoid the suffering so much that they don't even want these people to learn the lessons that help learn to protect themselves but also to prosper by themselves.
So I say let them fight it out in their own countries, if they dont like being ruled the way they are then overthrow the damn place and install democracy and capitalism and then you can work for what the west has in the same way that we had to work for what we have (and should never forget that).
Noah Russell
The real reason behind the massive immigration is not war but internet. All of them poor people in their poor shitholes in Africa have smartphones with facebook and instagram installed and follow cute slavic girls, rich western guys etc. and realize how miserable their lives are. You don't know how poor you are until you meet a rich guy.
>Zizek is anti immigration. Not for the reasons you are against it.
Matthew Carter
>class theory Nah, he's still retarded
Ryan Davis
Grow up and geta job commie faggot
Julian Adams
You're living in a fantasy land. American corporations extract already, there is no incentive to genocide besides your dumb fantasies
Sebastian Anderson
Based and prisonerpilled
John Davis
>I'm-Too-Old-To-Give-A-Shit-Anymore-Man vs Zionist shill #44012933
A truly riveting debate.
Asher Collins
Hail Zizek
James Brown
Rofl
Cooper Hughes
Yes they need to cultivate their own political culture and economic development but we cannot step aside and wash our hands completely. Look at where the chaos is and it's always wherever the west intervenes:Libya, Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan. The rest of the conflicts are mostly between Christians and muslims.
Eli Robinson
"Hurduuurrggghhh not real capitalism hurr durrr."
Brody Cooper
Hey, you say hes living in a fantasy but you also say niggers perform "labour". Ever go outside?
Camden Wright
Zizek is unironically very high IQ
Jayden Martin
A fundamental aspect of capitalism is the notion of free trade, that's free in the sense that it's free from coercion. If you have large corporations going around forcing people to do stuff then that's not capitalism.
Saying "hurr that's not real capitalism durr durr" is not an argument.
Benjamin Fisher
>but how long will that takes?
forever, since every time one of these people leaves their home countries, that place gets worse
only white people could have come up with this plan..."what if we just looted other countries of everyone who has even half of a brain cell and then employ them as slave labor in our country? surely that will save Honduras"
James Cox
To stop immigration, you have to draw a line and kill anyone who crosses it.
>The only problem these Humans have is that they're lonely, they literally don't have any other problems... trust me, I'm a psychologist and Psychology is a fake science, now let me switch it back to the kulaks...
Carter Walker
>The real question is "why do asians call poop 'buttmeat'?" OOOH YOU SON OF A BITCH!
Jaxson Morales
Here, take your approving sniffle you plebs. >countless arguments *crowd is silent >sniffle sniffle *crowd goes wild
Ayden Green
it's hilarious that discord trannies think zizek is a hero because he beat le lobster man
he literally wants to gas you and the feminists
Caleb Richardson
ur mum is gonna be mewling these testes later tonight
Anthony Morales
Oh, God, more about South Africa.
How many times do I have to post about South African DNA before people realize they aren’t actually white.
Levi Barnes
What does Israel have to do with our border crisis?
Jose Rogers
This debate proved only one thing. Americans are the cancer of the world and should be removed from existence.
This. Unless you say “its because theyre niggers” how could I even see you as a rational human being?
Kayden Flores
This. We should set up machine guns at the border and shoot any beaners why cross.
Charles King
I hope you grow up some day, Jesus christ are you15 years old
Cameron Long
South Africans aren’t white. They all have Indian, Malay and African ancestry. They’d be niggers under United States segregation laws. There’s no reason to care about them.
Lucas Young
Yet you are using American memes and posting on an American site, in English. Post memes from Hungarian TV instead, you know, that famous show.
Caleb Baker
This. Colonialism was a foolish idea. It did nothing to civilize non-white people, especially niggers. And now it’s giving niggers and Arabs an excuse to move to the West.
Isaac Reed
They're filled with shitskin DNA and are somehow white? Sure thing
Zachary King
>but somehow to try to change the situation which creates massive waves of immigration’
Or, you know, just ignore the immigrants/use violence against them
Eli Young
> muh global economy
Literal meme. Happening to be somewhere where there are rare earth minerals does not make you valuable if you contribute nothing other than standing on top of it.
Juan Collins
Confirmed for never organizing labor. Labor, no matter how little you pay it, is always more expensive than an efficient means of organization. That's why European countries moved away from slavery centuries ago. Not because it was the ethical thing to do, but because it was more economically efficient.
Zizek is an anti-communism communist. He praises the idea but criticizes the implementation. He is not the "not real communism !!!" guy he is the "It wont work in a 200 years, we have to rethink" guy Peterson on the other hand is a hack appealing only to incels. No rationality no real ideas, he's just reprhasing the same shallow ideas over and over again. Where Zizek unveils the idea shows you he mehanism of it - Peterson puts another veil and tries to explain the idea over his vision of it(which is shallow and wrong)
>The thing is what are immigrants fleeing from wars caused by the west >and what are they fleeing towards not getting exploded
the fact that they are savages and dont fit in well is something the west should have thought of before deciding to do imperialism
Christian Thompson
Zizek's argument is weird. South Africa became a DOTP in recent history. He's also exaggerating the extent of civil war in South Africa. It takes time for young governments to stabilize. In Russia, after the civil war, it took a while for Lenin, and the communists, to quell counterrevolutionary forces, and to pacify the peasants with land and bread. It takes time to do things that ease the economic conditions of those who are suffering. It doesn't happen overnight. Also, civil war shouldn't necessarily even be seen as bad thing either since no economic system, in existence, was born without violence. The solution to this problem be to end global capitalism. Proletarians, in all nations, must do whatever it takes to abolish currency, classes and borders. It must happen everywhere, spontaneously, through violent revolution. Electoral reforms will never lead to communism because they work to create the welfare capitalism necessary to keep the system from falling apart from crisis.
Nicholas Baker
are you guys retarded? They are basicaly close to being the same man with slighty different views and observation based on their life experiences and thier judgment
