Is Alcoholics Anonymous a crypto-cult

First of all: these two claims are not exclusive.

It doesn't meet all the criteria to be called a cult, in fact it meets very few and it does seem to get boozers off of their booze, which is a good thing, obviously.
I'm an alcoholic myself but I've only been to two AA meetings, I quit with the help of a different kind of therapy.

My higher power was "myself" and they threw me out

10 years sober btw fuck AA

Nah, I'm an addict. And well aware of what addiction does to your brain chemistry. Ever read up on stuff like how drugs affect the nucleus accumbens?

tl;dr: philosophy or rational thinking won't help you much to get out of true addiction (maybe if you're not too deep down the rabbit hole). The only thing what really helps is to pick up new habits and hobbies, preferably stuff where you learn something new and give your brain the tingle it wants without substance abuse. Personally I discovered origami and papercrafting during my n-th rehab, and it helps me to stay mostly sober. Fuck praying to some higher being to help me, I help myself.

If you scroll up, I didn'T even remember that their program has 12 steps, I said 10...

That's pretty funny

>Believing someone dumb enough to become an alcoholic is capable of "ration, logic and philosophy"
Those are just "fancy big words" to you addict, you front them for others to see in the hope they don't see the truth; that you're a stupid weak addict like all the rest.

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>swallow that 12 step dick harder, cult member
>"10 step" program
Lol ... somebody needs a better sponsor. You DO have a sponsor, don't you, user?

Why was Bill Wilson convinced LSD could cure alcoholism?

ive been to AA a few times, i think it can help some people but its definitely has cult-like qualities despite what some hardcore AA people will tell you.

nice people though

see

There's no reason a crypto-cult can't save millions of lives.

Well 8 and 9 are pretty much the same

I have a feeling these things discreetly set you up for failure...

>The only thing what really helps is to pick up new habits and hobbies, preferably stuff where you learn something new and give your brain the tingle it wants without substance abuse.
>Not rational, logical or philosophical.

i'm going on 5 years sober. didn't really know what sobriety was all about til i started going to AA. didn't really have anywhere else to go, either. i don't go much anymore, but i still check in every few months.

highly unlikely i'd be sober without AA.

i can't think of anything bad to say about my experience with AA. it's an opportunity to follow in the footsteps of people who've solved the problem you aren't sure how to quantify. it's up to you what you do with their solution.

For some its essential. I have a drink problem myself though AA doesn't work for me because I'm not strictly an addict and can control my drinking. My brother though is an honest to god alcoholic who was still in denial last time I saw him. He has lost all control and rationality and it's destroyed who he is as a person. The only thing that could save him now is religion. He'd have to abandon everything and accept the fact he is an addict. AA is spooky for normal people but some are just devastated to the point where they have obviously lost all control and that would be the only way left for him - total abstinence, 12 steps, going to meetings and reading the bible, and I'm not even religious, but that is probably the only way he'd ever get his life remotely together again. Addiction is shit.

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His belief was based on actual clinical trials which were made in the USA. But, from a scientifical point of view, the test group was relatively small, so there has been endless debate if the studies prove something or not.

LSD can be a lifechanging experience, though, and the psychological effects of an intense trip can last many months even after the drug effects wore off (been there, done that). So I think there might be some truth to it.

I think we misunderstood each other, user. Sorry for that.

forgot about the cult thing. it can't be a cult. in a cult there's a leader who has something you cannot obtain. that's why you follow the cult leader.

in aa nobody has anything you can't obtain. the whole point is to obtain what everyone you'd call "the leader" has. the "founders" just put together a way for you to obtain exactly what they had: good quality, potentially long lasting sobriety.

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It's a pseudo religion designed to replace one addiction with another.

Its the doorstep to masonry

Almost quads. Also this.

This is a good description. Most "alcoholics" can stop drinking on their own, but the worst of the worst typically need some kind of spiritual solution. AA is a great thing for the lowest-bottom drunks, but not really necessary or even helpful for anyone else.

t. 6 years sober in AA

Cool if it worked out for you! What did or do you think about their "spiritual" themes? I've heard that they can differ a lot from group to group, my local group likes to pray a lot which is not really my thing. I believe in God, but holding hands with my AA buddies while reciting prayers or poems, nah thanks.

How can your higher power be yourself when you are a fucking worthless drunk? You sound like a cheeky fedora fucker, I could see why they wouldn't want you around.

Why are the Jews attacking AA all of a sudden is it because it's Christian based or is it because it works and they don't want whites to have a program that cures them of their addictions?

Not millions but I could maybe agree that thousands didn't do the stupid, dangerous, or violent things they would have if not sober. My self included. But I don't consider myself one of those guys though you know

>It's a pseudo religion designed to replace one addiction with another.
While I agree with you - the courts currently mandate AA meetings as part of a DUI sentencing. There's a line between church and state in America - the court cannot make you go to church. A pseudo-cult, however ....

I have unique Zoomer perspective.
My parents made me go to an AA meeting one time because they caught me drinking (strict, early Gen X parents, christian family, all that). It was pretty interesting and seems like a decent resource for people with addictions that are trying to better themselves. I'm sure there are some weird chapters, but seems positive, /sig/ IRL

yes.

>it's Christian based
>founded by (((Smith))) and (((Wilson)))

Trinity, motherfucker. The Holy Ghost is in every single being here. He put his words quite well, and you are insulting him because you don't have a clue what he said.

Yeah it was a lesson to me that it exists and is so powerful. Also these cases tend to require intervention because the addict has lost the ability to look after themselves anymore. Plus society generally doesn't understand addiction or how overwhelming it is. AA is the only thing left for many.

Courts can't make you got to AA either, FYI. If you object, they can mandate that you attend a non-spiritual recovery program. There are a number of federal court decisions which say as much.

If that's what he said he wouldn't have been kicked out.

Read the book it is pure Christian philosophy, including evangelism

My experience:
>be youngest person in the group
>attended AA to make it appear that I was addressing my "drinking issue" (got a DUI)
>boomers galore, very few people my age
>attend for like 10 weeks
>boomers drinking coffee like it's their last opportunity ever to drink coffee
>all of them telling stories that made my DUI look like a joke, making me realize I didn't have a problem, just made a poor decision
>finally after weeks of listening to these faggots tell their sob stories, I work up the courage to speak
>boomer faggots more or less scoffing at the details of my story, acting like I'm wasting their time
>realize I am wasting their time and my own by continuing to attend
And I never attended again. If you have a real dependence problem that requires distraction I could see how this shit would work, as it basically forces you to preoccupy your life with "working the steps," which requires you to get a sponsor, invest in a "higher power," attend the meetings, etc. It's basically a time consuming project which forces the individual to invest their time into their bullshit which distracts from the addiction. I felt like it was a cult and didn't want to engage in their boomer fraternity. My advice if you're trying to quit is to wrap yourself up in meaningful projects to keep your mind off alcohol. The boomer fraternity is a farce, at least it was for me. To each his own. Good luck!
>nah, it's decent
>never tried it
Thanks for your shitty input you low IQ faggot

Had to go to some AA meetings as an agreement to get a DIP charge expunged. The people could tell I didn’t belong there but were nice enough. I find it odd that some people feel the need to abdicate their responsibilities to a supernatural oversight, but if it helps someone recover I won’t hold it against them.
Personally think it would be better to empower people through their own self-discipline and willpower, but I understand not everyone is capable of that.

>My higher power was "myself" and they threw me out

No they didn't. AA's Tradition 3 states: "The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking." Thus, no one can "throw you out" of AA. You're telling tales.

>What did or do you think about their "spiritual" themes?

well, i didn't know how bad off i was until i went about 12 hours without drinking and had a grand mal seizure. still kept drinking after that. got put into a padded room. still kept drinking.

i needed help. i obviously did not have the solution on how to quit. the idea that IF there is a god, or even IF there isn't, it sure as fuck isn't me appealed to me.

i'm not going to walk into a hospital with 1000s of people recovering from gunshot wounds and not let the doctors help me because i don't like the color bandaids they're using. they had a solution. i needed one. i could fuck off with my "well, i don't know about this whole 'god' thing." it felt childish and emo/goth highschooler at that point.

i chose my higher power. it wasn't the one the group was using, but it was mine and it made sense to me. i know people who use trees or ghosts or whatever the fuck you want. nobody cares. i wanted to be on the inside looking out. not dying drunk on the outside with my preconceptions killing me.

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>holding hands
I forgot about that, it was this that put me off the most. Creepy as shit.

You tell me

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What book are you referring to? They gave me a 2 page pamphlet listing the 12 steps, then I researched it a bit on the internet.

But yeah, agree about the evangelism, it's one of the last steps, or the last?

instead meditate every day.

take a thc edible daily until the cravings have passed.

also remember your brain edits out the negative memories of your debauches and only leaves the positive ones so each time you feel a desire to (((drink))) clearly visualize the situation of your worst most humiliating (((drunk))) moment and relive how you felt and thought.

>from what I have heard

Learn to read dummy.

It's a fucking cult. I know because I had to attend two of their gay meetings every week for a while after I got a DUI. It has satanic undertones like the concept of God "as you understand it" and the satanic circle of energy at the end of each meeting. They have their own "bible" which they call the Big Book and some groups do Big Book studies and the two founders are basically treated like Messiahs. Also they have those reward chips which are basically a triangle/pyramid inside a circle. Honestly I suggest to stay away from this cult and some of these freaks came up to me asking if I was or wanted to be Twelved Stepped like fucking Jehovah's witnesses. All this aside they do nothing but babble about their shitty sober lives and smell each others farts at meetings and AA had no effect on me.

What I don't like about AA/NA is the whole "hi I'm _____ and I'm an addict/alcoholic." I think continuously putting yourself down like that is bad for your self esteem/self worth.

It can help you stop drinking yourself into a state of eventual utter destruction, which on the whole tends to improve your lot in life.

Human nature being what it is, it's all too easy to displace the addiction to alcohol onto anything else, including the therapeutic process to stop drinking.

>I get my info handed to me second-hand without experiencing it for myself
As mentioned, great contribution to the thread friendo, thanks for sharing

That’s an interesting point. I think there’s value in vocally acknowledging that you suffer from an addiction, but doing it in this manner makes it come across as though you’re making the addiction part of your identity. As opposed to recognizing it as an affliction to be managed and resolved.

Nice, honest rant.

If you go into google scholar and read the literature you will see that treatment programs have a success rate on par with placebo. Would hire a company to build a bridge that has a success rate of placebo? yet these rent seeking parasites have a constant stream of revenue given to them buy state and local courts. Seems like a cult too me.

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It's systemic cult brainwashing. They destroy your ego hook you emotional support so they can rebuild you from the ground up. cult 101

no real input on the 'cult/not a cult', but do you have more of that sexy girl?

Literally every human social institution is a 'crypto-cult'.

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I'm pretty sure I have a problem and attending meetings won't help. I have a shitty life and use alcohol to self medicate. So it's drink or go to the doctor for some happy pills, which I don't want to do, as for all I know, I might want to buy a gun five years down the road and somebody will say, "Naw bro. New laws. You crazy." It's not a driving around like a drunken retard problem. It's more of a drinking my miserable ass to sleep every night problem. I'm working on the my miserable ass problem. I'm thinking the drinking will cure itself. Any thoughts on that? You seem to know a little bit about this.

Brave, but a bit crazy. Alcohol withdrawal can kill you, so going cold turkey is not really a healthy idea. I do it myself every other months, at home, because I'm too ashamed to go into hospital for detox again (I recommend hospitals specialized on that, no niggers, no gunshot wounds, at least over here). And so far I survived it but went through a hole lot of pain and cramps and delirious hallucinations. But it's fucking dangerous. During one of my clinical detox sessions I met a girl/woman who had to be revived 6 times because her heart simply stopped during the seizures. Don't do this alone at home, kids. Not if you're a really really heavy drinker.

You’re engaging in escapism, user. All it’s doing is masking your problems under a haze of dopamine abuse. My advice would be to seek other forms of dopamine release and self-fulfillment.
As much crap as SSRIs and simple “happy pills” get here, they are a proper solution for some people.

What I hate most is how hopeless they make everyone out to be.

You will always be an addict (and must refer to yourself as such), you will always have a problem with drinking, you will never develop self control, you will never be a normal person again without religiously following the steps, you can never "cure" yourself through willpower.

Not to mention that addicts dont stop being degenerate even if they go to meetings, everyone there is a tatted up asshole, ex-con, etc. It's not a healthy place to spend your time.

Up to debate, because I've thought about this a lot. I think many alcoholics are in denial about their addiction (I know my brother is, and he's drinking a lot more than me), and making this part of the introduction mandatory might help with breaking this denial? That's my interpretation at least.

On the other hand, I dislike rituals, so I'm looking for a self-help group without those.

If it works for you that's great. You recognize yourself as weak and worthless and give yourself over to a higher power. That's one of the steps. That absolutely does not work for me. I'll take care of it myself thanks. There is not such thing as 'I can't'. If you need to, get it done and be done with it. That's it. If you can't do that, maybe 12 steps is for you.

Anybody can do that. If you can't, what the fuck use are you anyway? Might be time to check out.

>also remember your brain edits out the negative memories of your debauches and only leaves the positive ones so each time you feel a desire to (((drink))) clearly visualize the situation of your worst most humiliating (((drunk))) moment and relive how you felt and thought.

Iktf, it's the same thing with opiates. No matter how sick you have been, the craving never stops. It's debilitating, even after half a year clean.

I had to go court ordered once. Biggest bunch of pathetic losers I've ever seen, haven't had an alcohol related blackout since, based judge and based sentence.

Substitution therapy works. I can always tell when I'm drinking too hard because I start getting insomnia the first few nights of not drinking.

I just take Benedryl for a week or so. It's depressing, not fun like booze. But it works.

Yes.

Go to a doctor and ask about Naltrexone. Also, Cognitive Behavioral Therapy is supposed to work.

I began working out incessantly to overcome my itch to drink. I was single at the time which was a big problem as I had too much free time on my hands and used alcohol to occupy that time. Once I took on lifting, I invested all that free time into chamging my physical self along with the mental. As they say, idle hands are the devil's workshop. Also, I use supplements like GABA and St. Jon's Wort to help battle depression and anxiety. They do seem to help.

AA works if you want to quit drinking.

I have been to over 3000 aa meetings, I don't go anymore, because I learned just don't drink. You can't control the world, you can only control how you

RESPOND

to that world. I also found some magical medication. Propranolol 10 mg. Stop you from absorbing adrenalin.

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That's insane, you need benzodiazepines at least to alleviate the seizure risk.

The guy who started it originally wanted to treat people with LSD, right? If so, I think its' origins are probably legit

I'm on antabuse now for 7 months. When I get the cravings, mostly in the weekend, I take phenibut. Not fun either but it works. You shouldn't do it more than 3 times a week they say.

Thanks for that. It sounds like I might be on the right track. I lost a shitton of friends after the 2016 election and I just started staying home a lot, eating too much, just being a sad sack. Then the nighttime drinking started, which of course did not help with the weight problem. I've tried changing my schedule to get up early to exercise, and to make myself go to bed early. That has really seemed to help. I'll look into the St. John's Wort. I've heard good things about it working for others, but hadn't spoken to anybody who had actually tried it.

>Pretending like addicts don't tun the world.
What is money addiction? One to many a thousand never enough? Just saying anyone who has addict thinking has a real shot at making serious money when then shift their DOC to financial gain. Normies don't get it, they are content with 9-5 lifestyle and that's ok. With addicts more is always desired, most just find more in the bottle and bag.
Also, the 12 step program could benefit anyone with a desire to improve their life. Only the ignorant mock those who try to improve their quality of life. Hate away though, the opinions others have of me isn't my business nor within my control. If it is out of my hands, it is out of my mind.

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I'm fully aware of that, which is why I NEVER recommend cold turkey to any heavy drinker.

Thing is, I'm poor, and a proper detox in hospital costs around 150€ and I don't want to get more into debt. And my life sucks anyway, so I don't call an ambulance when I reach that state and just try to survive the limbo while drinking tons of water and smoking weed to try keep my heart rate low enough to avoid the really hefty seizures.

They can't mae you go to AA, but they can make you go to IOP, who will then make you go to AA. That way it's the hospital that's making you go, not the state. This is how they get around that loophole in Ohio, at least.

>to that world. I also found some magical medication. Propranolol 10 mg. Stop you from absorbing adrenalin.

doesn't that fuck with your heart?

>doesn't that fuck with your heart?

NO, it protects the heart.

>I do it myself every other months, at home, because I'm too ashamed to go into hospital for detox again

sounds like your method of staying sober isn't working out so well. just remember that when you've had enough of doing it "your way" there will still be an open door for you in rooms across the country. it didn't work for me a few times, either. but sobering up sucks so bad that i don't want to do it again.

good luck, user.

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Iktf, I'm a poor fucker too, and smoking weed to keep your heart rate down seems counterproductive. Why not just go to a doc, explain your problem and ask for a diazepam scrip? It's cheaper than weed, about 4 euros for a box here.

Helped me out. Taught me how to put aside me ego and introspection on a lot of flaws that made me want to drink until I couldn't feel. Is it cultish? Eh, I found some info on YouTube that people dug up on Dr. Bob and how he dabbled in the occult before and after he started the program, and it makes a ton of sense to be honest.

I should also preface this on the fact that I no longer participate in the program.

I had an easier time convincing a nbk virgin to swallow than to leave her 12 step program that was letting her eat too much for the sedentary lifestyle she lived.

Using an SSRI for a few months is no big deal as long as you get off of them relatively quickly.

Dude... I don't want to mock you, but do you even listen to yourself?

> went to 3k+ AA metings
> don't need them anymore because I learned just don't drink
> oh, by the way, I found this new magical drug which helps me with my cravings

So, which one did help you staying sober? AA? Your strong decision? Or your new pharma drug? Geez....

What's your dui story?

>oy vey, don't accept a higher power in the world, it's all about you! Yes, people have been helped by the program, but they're all cultists! In fact, why not just keep doing drugs?

Protip: the drug is the strong delusion.

the hell of modernity is intolerable without substances. everything should be legalized and darwin will weed out the weak.

It's very odd. They replace alcohol dependence with group/sobriety dependence. They obsess over sobriety and meetings in a very unsettling way. They constantly slight themselves by saying they're powerless addicts. I didn't think it was the way to be free from addiction. Went my own way and I couldn't care less about drinking now.

aa is super faggy. only boomers with no willpower would go there. oh poor me wahhh i can't control myself wahhh group hug and tug. fucking fags.