Plato - The Republic

Would it bother you if I ask any physical proof or information from his biography.

what path did you choose?

Reactionary definitely the best one

What makes reactionary so sexy?

Libertarian Right.
I don't disregard the other two, I value freedom over tradition

It is a must read

"In order that rulers may be willing to rule, they must be paid in one of three modes of payment: money, or honor, or a penalty for refusing..

Good men do not wish to be openly demanding payment for governing and so to get the name of hirelings, nor by secretly helping themselves out of the public revenues to get the name of thieves. And not being ambitious they do not care about honor. Wherefore necessity must be laid upon them, and they must be induced to serve from the fear of punishment. And this, as I imagine, is the reason why the forwardness to take office, instead of waiting to be compelled, has been deemed dishonorable” -Socrates, Plato’s Republic, 380BC

if you don't have a philosophy degree, you are fucked, essentially.
STEMfags BTFO LMAO

Evola, Tolkien. De Maistre, Guenon and KACZYYYYNSKI

Plato is a must-read. You're not going to instantly reach enlightenment by reading his books but he'll get you started on knowing what exactly is up.

If anyone is in college, I recommend getting at least a minor in philosophy with a focus on the classics and early-modern theorists. You'll be set for political discourse.

...

In my school, they have something call TOK (Theory of Knowledge) and all 11th grade students must attend to the class. I am not very sure if it deal with ancient philosophers and early-modern theorists. What should I expect if the class is dumbed down?

Plato should be banned so no gypsies can get enlightened.
>Allan Bloom
t. Jew. Totally pol approved.

He classifies people based on some bullshit metal types categories, like gold people are meant to be rulers, silver people are meant to be nobility etc. I mean sure, you could have something like that, but the idea that people cannot evolve from one category to another is just ridiculous.
And he has them living in segregated groups, based on those classifications. How do you even manage some degree of social mobility? There doesn't seem to be any in Plato's scheme of things.

Also, he is wrong about philosophers being great as rulers. Most intellectuals suck when it comes to leading people, they've got their heads too stuck up their asses to be able to focus on what is most important, which is managing relations of power. Intellectuals are just so bad at managing power relations.

This is just two points on which Plato got it so wrong. You definetely need people who are experienced to fill in the roles of rulers. The problem is that very often those who have the acumen to manage power relations don't have equal mental abilities to steer society in a constructive and thriving direction.

So that's why neither his model nor the current democratic model work.

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His father too, Bloom is a common name among kikes.

Wow you're still a kid. Nice to know young ones are getting interested in politics and shit. If its dumbed down you still get a start and a rudimentary reading list so go ahead and give it a try.
This.

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Then where should we start instead to get the real shit of enlightenment.

The republic makes some good points about the causes for the collapses of democracies.

- giving equal rights to foriegn immigrants and freed slaves as those given to natural born as citizens leads to societal degradation and foriegn influence

- giving voting power to people who only recieve from taxes and never contribute leads to more and more voting to recieve more free handouts which can bankrupt the country

- politician are worse than a king because they can avoid taking responsibility for their corruption and bad policies which can lead to continual lines of corruption where no one is ever held accountable for the destruction of society

Agree as fuck!

Why would you even question this lol

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allan_Bloom

While sure you'll need to have read Plato eventually so you can properly see when philosophers are responding, usually disparagingly, to Plato you really dont need to start with the most laughable metaphysics theory in the western canon (which is totally what inspires his slightly better politics).

Hobbes is probably the most interesting and still relevant introduction to political philosophy.

I don't fucking know. This guy basically says who I am:

How is Mein Kampf not included?

whoever makes these are dumb as fuck
>animal farm on the same tier as Leviathan

Just finished it. Thought it was very interesting.

I didn’t realize the political discussion was more of a vehicle for the philosophy concepts.

Amazing how much more sense he does than modern philosophers.

According to Jow Forumsack's Journey, his work on the Leviathan is Tier 1. That's assuming, of course, you agree with that infographic. So, yea, maybe it's a better start.

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>He classifies people based on some bullshit metal types categories, like gold people are meant to be rulers, silver people are meant to be nobility etc.
I think this was just assigning classes to people, idk why he used metels but let's just give him the benafit of the doubt and say it made sense in the context of 400 BC

>he is wrong about philosophers being great as rulers. Most intellectuals suck when it comes to leading people, they've got their heads too stuck up their asses to be able to focus on what is most important, which is managing relations of power.
Ah but he does address this actually, The thing with people who's main thing is managing relations of power, their lives get quite bad quite quick. When a leader is more worried his own military and staff than the well being of his nation, generally the quality of life in that nation goes down quite a bit. A philosopher should be ruler but it doesn't mean he would be a complete tyrant, he would have a staff and (like the cheif of staff in the USA) could have a staff member who is responsible to checking on the powers and giving reports to the Philosopher king on the situation and advise him on what he should do. A wise philosopher king would not rule alone and without advice of others as no man knows everything.

I'm not defending plato here though, Alot of his ideas are flawed (especially in todays context) but the 2 things which did stick pretty well is the idea democracy is bad and that a Ruler should be a philosopher (not like a Philosophy majoy but an actual philosopher) because then you would get a government which is being ran off the beliefs which are based in improving society and the nation as a whole. Most nations and rulers are simply orginizations which exist to preserve power structures which exist in those nations. People who are powerful and wealthy in those nations generally have quite a bit of say if not direct rule over the governments.

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aren't there any romanian tranlation to Plato?

Spinoza...ewww.

I am wonder how many year you taking English class

"know thine enemy"

You're asking a lot from Gypsies to care about philosophy. How many caipirinha did you have today?

I can ask the same question about your Spanish Class, you malignant fuck

Thanks user. I'm going to read a bunch of them. I really liked pewdiepies book review on Plato, now i have a guide.

It’s worth the read. Bloom’s translation is fine. But in terms of critique, Rosen offers a better reading than Bloom on a lot of stuff. Don’t read the dialogue as a tract for a ‘real’ city. Socrates wants to go home after Bk IV. Republic is first and foremost a discussion of the good life, how politics comes to be, and what it’s limits are. Don’t let these brainlets tell you otherwise.

t. Philosophy PhD student who focuses on Plato

people say it was one of the first books with explicitly fascist ideas. I believe they called artsy types degenerates in the book unless I'm misremembering it, it has been a while.

That tier system is pants on head retarded.
Meditations is incredibly easy to read and digest. And Leviathan was and has always been crap.

>I am wonder if it's Jow Forums approved.
No. It's pure communism precursor. The guy was a boot-licking cuck and a suicidal loser.

You won't get life advice from losers, are you?

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> falling into the trap of ideology
i.e. list creator is a fool.

you need to go back to cripplechan faggot

There is just one thing to do, and that is to challenge the current world order and become a superman or die trying.

Only fools follow a "path", i.e. an ideology. Ideology is by definition dogmatic and therefore another form of religion.
True knowledge comes from being pragmatic.

>2000 years before communism
>is a commie book
you have to have perspective or you'll just be like this dumb faggot

I don't think you should worry too much about translation. You will want to read the Republic more than once so you can choose some other translation later if you'd like. Just start reading the one you got now. When in doubt pick the "Hackett" editions though.

If you haven't read any Plato before I would recommend you start with the "Trial and Death of Socrates" books first though. Which are Euthyphro, Apology, Crito and Phaedo. They're short and really good introduction to Plato and philosophy in general.

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Decent advice

he only wanted this for guardians and rulers

>How many caipirinha did you have today?
You may think i am bullshiting you, but i dont drink.
When i asked about romanian translation, is that some people of iron legion were into philosophy, maybe they could provide a more based translation than an english speaking kike.

>precursor
Learn English you dumb mutt

He said commie precursor, illiterate.

True, true, yet where I live a library is kinda far.

Yes, there is a very good translation made by Andrei Cornea (a joo) and edited by Constantin Noica.

>lolbertarian education

Lolbertarian see communists behind every corner. Plato was simply idealizing the Spartan life, where kids were separated from their families and trained as warriors to fight wars.

You're a moron.

>I am wonder if it's Jow Forums approved.
Yes, yes it is

>idealizing the Spartan life

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>KJV bible
yuck.

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If babby tier has stuff like 1984 and Animal Farm (not bad, just low tier), then I'd also add the first 4 Dune books.
It's still babby tier to put fiction on the same plane as non fiction, but there's some really good shit in those books, especially God Emperor of Dune.

Very pragmatic, I like that mindset.

Shit, forgot the image

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Meh, religion is something you have to understand and learn, in order to perceive people's beliefs and institution.

You guys are missing the point. The political system was mainly being discussed in comparison to an individual, with different forms of government in parallel with corresponding personality types. Reading it like a literal political treatise is missing the main message, which is a demonstration of the form of justice.

The joke's on you tho... this clown world has turned everything upside down. So the original intent of that text was to signify the importance of us, the infamous 4chans, to have as much sexy time as possible.

Remember kids, we wuz chads in ancient times.

>Plato was simply idealizing the Spartan life, where kids were separated from their families and trained as warriors to fight wars.
this is the problem with idealism, Plato idea of State totally substituting family nucleus, also the idea of women being a class property [class cuckery, so to speak], is anoying things on Plato.
But his use of logics and socratic dialetics to organize concepts are timeless achievements of western civilization.
Sad to know that.
If there's no other option, could be used.
I always try to find translations that were made before 1945[for obvious reasons], or some bilingual translation that HAVE the original language.
For those who are good with german, there's plenty material on philosophy at >>>archive.org/

>whoever makes these are dumb as fuck
you know you can make one yourself

>Plato was simply idealizing the Spartan life
Spartans were authoritarian commie losers. Also uncivilized savages.

>wew lad
Elite commissioned the same works from Machiavelli centuries later. The results allowed them to cherry pick what they wanted.
Plato for the republic and Machiavelli for the prince. To see what we could have become, read the republic by Machiavelli and the prince by Plato

>Spartans were authoritarian commie losers. Also uncivilized savages
now your obvious baiting became obvious

point is i'm pretty certain whoever made this hasn't actually read the books because some of them are retarded/poorly written right wing manifestos like "for my legionaries" while some of them are incredibly difficult texts that take a lifetime to master like Being and Time

So fucking what, brainlet?

And lest not forget Ride the Tiger without any other Evola's works, Decline of the West as if you can understand Spengler without the previous 200 years of philosophy, March of the Titans the LARP, and not to forget fucking Machiavelli.

Plato is generally pretty redpilled but a society modeled exactly after the one in the republic is repugnant, disgusting and an affront to human nature. It's natural for man to desire his own belongings and family and any political system that denies or goes against that is downright retarded

he's laying out a spirituality-based Aryan hierarchical structure, with the castes of society mirroring the functions of the living organism and the spirit. this is more or less the society that the Vedas lay out as well (in theory)

>the society that the Vedas lay out
based and comparativepilled

Who cares?
Jow Forums approves the bible, ie a jewish brainwashing tool.

That's great but it doesn't address my point, that's not a just society or one that I think anyone would like to live in

>pol/ approved.
the greatest apology for capitalism ever written

don't knock it til you've tried it ;)

Read Saul Bellow's Ravelstein, which was about Bloom. And then read what the editors and Bellow decided to remove. Bloom was not only gay, but into young black boys.

Alright, if you like being cucked by the state, not having a family or any material posessions if you're not a peasant then go for it. I for one can handle a society where there's more loyalties than just to the (((state)))

>The main thing we got from the republic is that a Philosopher should be ruler of a nation and democracy is a farse. So in fundamentals The republic is based, the rest is commie shit but we can't blame plato since he could only theorize such a society.

yup see pic

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Read Aristotle's Politics, its a more or less direct response to the Republic, and addresses many of the problems within the Republic. This doesn't mean I didn't like the Republic, the myth of Er still speaks to me, on level very few things have.

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you're missing the point entirely. The state is a divine institution in Plato's world, and the class system allows every person to fulfill their proper role. This will make life meaningful and just- as opposed to a system where everyone is "free" but no one is fulfilled. "Freedom" to dildo your ass is replaced with freedom to pursue the Good. That's the whole point.

>the republic is pro commie
He was making fun of utopians

Don't read Bloom's translation, read Sachs

Republic is great. I suggest trying a "soft reading" of the text. A lot of the text about political systems can also be read as a kind of allegory for psychological states (i.e. rule by a philosopher=rule of reason vs democracy=rule by desires). You can also read the various societies described by Plato as a precursor to the concepts of the reptilian, mammalian, and neomammalian parts of the brain.
A lot of people get caught up in reading the text too literally. This is more of a philosophical exercise done by Plato.

I forgot to add: If you want to read about Plato's more practical beliefs when organizing a society, I suggest reading Laws.

>Absolute meme tier philosophy that not even Plato believed in later life.

It was a start, and all the alternatives are worse. Aristotelian realism can't cope with uninstantiated universals, conceptualists can't explain the unreasonable effectiveness of mathematics, nominalists are just larping.

The way to fix Plato's metaphysics is to take from his late work (Timaeus) and apply Whitehead (the last philosopher of worth, you should be proud britbongs)

Ya it definitely shouldn't be someone's first philosophical read. I would recommend shorter more relaxed reads, perhaps "The Symposium" by Plato or maybe something like the "Enchiridion" by Epictetus.

>Sparta was an elitist oligarchy.
>Sparta had a primitive form of eugenics
>Class society like in the commie Brave New World
>Highly Feminist
>No private property
>No economic freedom
>Authoritarian shithole
>No culture

Bbbut muh rupublic....

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>eugenics

I fail to see how thats a bad thing.

>democracy is a farse
fundamental concept of the
>alt right
>Jow Forums
>moldbug
>peter "I no longer believe democracy and freedom are compatible" Thiel
>Hoppe
>Carlyle
Compatible with
>Dark Enlightenment
>Land
>Accelerationism
this is our ideology, the ideology of the alt right and Jow Forums. If you disagree you are a social justice warrior, a shill, a journalist and a normie.

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How can you retards think that the city in speech in Republic is a blueprint for an actual city? Like maybe Laws, but Republic? Brainlets flood this board