Tl;dr GF unhappy that I never want to get married

that's called common law marriage, we don't have that in the UK

Not him but many marriages are ending badly these days

>pre-nups don't exist
Explain yourselves

Looking up any statistics on marriage os terrifying. No one in their right mind should involve documentation and government in a relationship.

Pre-nup is mostly only an american thing. In the US you have to go through lawyers to file for divorce. In more developed countries this is not a thing. You want a divorce, all you have to do is to print out the papers youself. Fill it out and send it in to the local government. Even if one of the parties do not agree, they don’t have any right to your income or wealth. If one refuse to sign, the divorce go through anyways after some time has passed.
And yes, child support and custody is still a thing. But hardly ever done in court. Also automatic where no parties are scammed out of their money.
In reality, getting married is low stake in most places on earth. In the US it can ruin your life.

It took me awhile to get it through my head my ex was never going to marry me. It hurt so much for him to reject me like that but after trying to speak openly about this two times I left him and so happy now I did.

Girls please do not cling to these guys who never commit and especially after they tell you openly there is no happily ever after for the relationship.

That's why you give her the wedding ring.

>never commit

What's the difference between a relationship and a marriage? A piece of paper from the government is the only thing. Someone who will cheat in a relationship will do it in a marriage

It's a man-made ideal, and means you're going to put the effort in to make it work long term. And makes you seem respectable to others.

commitment is more than sexual fidelity. You become partners in all things and decisions made in support of the partnership. When a guy refuses to sign on the dotted line he's never fully in.

But then you give a typical male answer so you don't understand real commitment.

If she makes you sign a dotted line she'll never be all in because you've incentivised her to divorce with the promise of free shit

Marriage was created by men. With this attitude towards women you are literally setting yourself up to fail at marriage and fulfilling intimate relationships in general.

>tell her marriage doesn't change how I feel about her

I think you have to understand that the whole idea of being with one person as a life partner until the day you die is a fundamentally romantic notion that requires romantic - not rational - thinking to be viable. (I'm using the word "romantic" in the philosophical sense here, as in the idealist romanticism of 19th century literature). And hear me when I say this, just because the institution of modern marriage may be fundamentally irrational, that is NOT the same as being unreasonable or unrealistic. It just means that it can be practical without necessarily being logical.

You talk about insurance. Marriage isn't supposed to change the way you feel about her; it's supposed to be the insurance for when life/time changes how you feel about her, which it inevitably will. Your feelings aren't constant and they aren't a commitment. Marriage is. And someone who dabbles in the idea of being with someone for life without the emotional maturity to understand the precariousness of their emotions and the willingness to reify a relationship with more than just their word isn't going to instill confidence in their significant other. In essence, if you're the kind of person who is likely to actually be with someone forever, you're also the type of person who doesn't need some coy "let's take it day by day" clause in the beginning.

I think she's arguing her point like a woman, but her point is reasonable. She's onto you, OP.

If not only my aunt hadn't spent her whole life effectively but not legally married to a great man and gone through some real hardships like cancer side by side happily without some piece of paper from the state

If a piece of paper is so insignificant then why not get it? Oh because it does mean something after all and it scares you.

>YOU NEED TO SIGN A PAPER TO PROVE YOU REALLY LOVE ME
this is so irrational it's hilarious

>I love you so much I would do anything EXCEPT sign the dotted line that says I will love you forever

>Marriage isn't supposed to change the way you feel about her; it's supposed to be the insurance for when life/time changes how you feel about her, which it inevitably will

So in other words, it's supposed to trap you when you want out.

Congratulations, monogamy is pointless now. Why do you hate sluts again? Its not like anything lasts forever so who cares if they are unable to actually commit.

>trap you

No, it's supposed to REMIND you of the commitment you made "for better or worse" when things are tough and you're finding it convenient to ignore that promise.

this is the equivalent of
>put that you're in a relationship on your Facebook page or you don't really love me
youtu.be/yWVoqpXfiPA

You're not signing the paper to prove you love them, you're signing the paper to prove that you see that love as something that is unconditional.

If its so pointless and insignificant to you but means a lot to her, why not do it?

and THAT'S not irrational?
i never said it was insignificant, it definitely comes with a whole lotta legal shit I'm trying to avoid

Nah, it makes sense from a protect your virginity position(not that women are doing this but hear me out) Think about it. Its all so stupid. You spend thousands on a fucking rock and wedding, all to essentially carry on life as you were except now you are announcing to the world "OK. WE ARE GOING TO BE HAVING SEX NOW. IT ISN'T WIERD BECAUSE WE WENT THRU THIS STRANGE RITUAL OUR FAMILIES WITNESSED"

What man would do all of this unless he was seriously committed to that roasty? That is how you know your virginity isn't going to be wasted back then.

You compared signing a marriage certificate to the relationship status of a fucking facebook page. That tells me you think it is pretty insignificant.

>and THAT'S not irrational?

Have already covered this point in-depth. Go re-read and read it closely.

>virginity
yeah nah
i was comparing the silly notion of announcing my love publicly = real commitment
ok cool, so it is pretty irrational

Because if she decides to leave me I don't want to end up losing everything and killing myself later like my uncle did

Then don't suck like he did

Right, because a marriage breaking down is always the man's fault...

>i was comparing the silly notion of announcing my love publicly = real commitment
If you are really committed then naturally your love will be announced publicly and you shouldn't find it strange or scary to announce it

You akready have anxiety over your future with her, you already have distrust to her loyalty. You shouldn't be in a serious relationship if you can not trust your partner fully.

You're clearly letting childhood trauma govern your life. Your uncle is an isolated case. His situation is unquestionably more reflective of him as a person and not of marriage as an institution. You need to realize that it's legitimately unhealthy to think "IF I GET MARRIED I'LL END UP LOSING EVERYTHING AND KILLING MYSELF."

Now THAT is irrational.

But if she chooses to be a housewife/gf as a career (which it is if your husband/bf has a lot of money) you won't be developing any other useful skills and you'll at least want some level of job security and the equivalent of a pension plan, that's why we have alimony and so on. I don't necesssarily support alimony and I think it doesn't fairly apply to a lot of cases but I understand why it exists, and I understand why she would be insistent on getting some assurances.

>isolated case
>divorce rate in Europe and USA is over 50%

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not necessarily
can't i just love unconditionally without the government/family/friends approval?

Don't be retarded just to argue. He's very clearly referring to the fact that his uncle killed himself, not the divorce.

Have you considered that he's trying to help you understand it? Also, the english invented common law, seems obvious that 'common law marriage' would be an english thing.

I honestly don't get how losing half of everything you own is that big of a problem, if it amounts to anything then you were rich to start with and probably have a high salary, and now your expenses are way lower. Lots of Americans ould just lose half of their debt in that situation lol

Are you saying their awareness will effect your relationship? Why do you think that if so? If you are loving unconditionally, then marriage shouldn't be a problem at all. Unless you actually AREN'T loving unconditionally and think their/your loyalty and love will one day vanish and they leave you.

>Have you considered that he's trying to help you understand it?
No, he was not trying to help me understand it with that condescending tone.
>Also, the english invented common law, seems obvious that 'common law marriage' would be an english thing.
I didnt know that. Just because it's english doesnt mean everyone around the globe knows it.

Unconditional love is not real bro, its a stupid concept. Are you saying you would love someone even if they cheat and betray you? Never love without conditions.

no, i just think it's pointless
also this user has a point

If you think I have a point then you understand why marriage is a thing. Its a condition and you should never love without conditions.

I was right were you are. You will lose her if you keep this up. At some point you have to show her she is worth the risk, thats all she is asking for. Talk to her, plan the marriage but also divide your assets. Thats the best of both worlds. If you truly love this woman, dont let her go over this. You'll regret it. Im speaking from experience.

>no, i just think it's pointless
see

If I hire a Butler to do my cooking and cleaning but he quits, I shouldn't have to keep paying for work I'm not receiving

>you won't be developing any other useful skills
Actually yes, I did develop useful skills and continue to refine them. I learned how to cook by working in a restaurant, I got better by doing it at home everyday, I learned how to clean by working with a very strict maid service and , I learned how to sew on my own and could easily become a tailor, I could easily be the best nanny you ever hired because I am experienced with children. I will sometimes do these kinds of jobs on the side if I want to treat my family to Disney world or some shit and offset the financial burden from my husbands bank account. Now, these aren't doctor or lawyer, but get high enough up in these work fields(and trust me, it really takes no effort to start up a nanny or cleaning business. now when you are seriously hustling in these industries it gets serious, but starting out is actually as easy as craigslist adds and word of mouth) and you will be very well off, and at the very least have job security independent from your spouse. All it is is a matter of putting yourself back into the work force, which is much easier for women to get into with employment gaps than men.

I may never make as much as my husband, that is for damn sure, but I would be well off should something happen to him or our marriage is forced to end over something like cheating, drug abuse, ect. Women are coddled in the work field. Even if we never make as much as the men business will always have a demand for our faces alone. It really is easy mode.

You're not very bright

Okay dishwasher

I am just saying, women have it easy even in lower class work fields. The world coddles us, there is simply no denying it.

I mean, if she wants to get married she wants to get married. If you haven't been able to talk her out of it by now I doubt you ever will.

>>always been open about my belief
This is all that matters. She can't date you on the presumption that you'll change. That's stupid and absurd.

No different from those dumb bitches who date complete loser "bad boys" because they think they can 'fix' them. Responsible don't start with relationships with people they're fundamentally incompatible with.

>says I'm banking on it to fail
Also this is a manipulation tactic. When you put money in your saving account, are you banking on getting fired? When you buy life insurance, are you betting that you're going to die? And so on.

Call her out on these two points of stupidity.

>She's not talking to me any more
But on second hand, if you also entered the relationship knowing that she wants to get married one day... then you need to listen to her feelings. Get to the core of why she wants this. Feel what she feels. Understand her fears. Listen to her. Even if she's being completely bitch, you should still try to listen to her and show her that you love her and care. Explain that it's not a personal attack on her, that it's from watching people burn when you're little and you're scared. Put it in words she can understand.

She really shouldn't marry you if those are your honest feelings. I can't see anything good about you other than your money and if she sees you the same way, she can't love you either.

Tldr op: She doesn't love you

At least I'm not a faggot

Marriage only allows for the possibility of divorce which turns a previously symbiotic relationship into a parasitic one. It allows the woman to be a leech feeding off of your money after divorce. I'm in full agreement with the OP, marriage is a foolish choice and not required to carry on a relationship. If it bothers her this much she clearly doesn't share your values and you should dump her. She's never going to stop with this marriage nagging and if you roll over and give in to her you're taking on a risk that you never needed to take.

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oh the government approval will definitely affect the relationship with all the legal stuff it comes with

It's not being about in the right or in the wrong. Both of you simply have difference expectations from life and their partner. And boy, both of you suck at communicating.

And that would be? Not counting the divorce risk, but what exactly would government do to a healthy happy marriages to make it a legal burden? It only becomes a burden if you divorce.

>Not counting the divorce risk
lol... it's a 50% risk
you share all your possessions with another person and there's 50/50 chance of losing it all...

>imagine not getting math nor divorce law

So your only legal burden is from divorce? Great! You shouldn't marry someone or consider your relationship serious if you can not trust them to remain loyal until the end. Marriage isn't what destroyed that couple, a lack of loyalty and love did and it would have happened certificate or not.

And then no one acknowledged the only correct user itt ever again.

how do you even know your partner won't leave you? seems delusional
english isn't my first language sorry

Do you actually trust your GF? You must not if you think she is going to turn you into your uncle. Maybe revaluate your feelings for her. Its ok to realize you don't fully love and trust someone. Really contemplate how much risk she is worth to you.

>how do you even know your partner won't leave you?
If there is any doubt you are not ready for marriage. Simple. Now you realize the divorce rate is the way it is is because most couples are simply doomed from the start, not because a piece of paper doomed them. Actually achieving life long love and loyalty is rare amongst humans. This is why most people shouldn't get married, they are not capable to be life long partners no matter how they try to force it.

If you don't want to get married, don't. Simple as that.

yeeaah i'm back to my main point that it is irrational af
who the fuck trusts a partner like that in 2019?

It only works out for a lucky few. The chances of both of you remaining loyal to each other until you are dead is a romantic fantasy most could never hope to achieve.

Bro. I'm been reading this thread. This is what you need to do. See a therapist or some sort of professional shrink to explore your past a bit. You suffered some big losses.
Next thing you need to do is speak with a barrister or whatever your lawyers are called, find the best one who specializes in divorce and speak with him about what the typical consequences are and what you can do to protect your assets both legally and even not so legally (maybe a Swiss account?). At least talk with an actual expert so you don't make life altering decisions based on the tragic things you witnessed.
Gather all the best info you can before you decide whether to leave your girl or not.

Is she religious?
Have you tried marrying her without signing the legal papers? Having a church wedding and being married in the eyes of God but not the state.