Grill friendzoned me but still wants to spend time with me and asks if I care about her and shit...

That's a good point but I'd hope if she wanted to be a good friend she'd be in favor of me trying to find a good girl. All my other friends are super supportive if I go approach some girl irl

>friendzoned
There's no such thing as a "friend zone", you didn't make the cut, she doesn't see you as someone she can be romantically involved with.
>baawww she touches my hand and she probably fingered herself that week and I ate a sandwich so I effectively ate her pussy, we also hanged out a lot without me ever telling her how I felt but this worked before and we'd date but it didn't work with her and we aren't dating but I've been friend zoned
I didn't even give your post my full concentration but that's the gist I got from skimming it
>should I feel wrong about chatting to women that isn't this woman who isn't interested in me?
Only if you are socially retarded.
If she doesn't want you, don't bother with her unless you're happy to be friends with her (that's all your relationship is after all), there's no point thinking the time you invested in her will get you anywhere because it hasn't, she isn't a machine you put le nice guy coins into and get a blowjob in return, she doesn't want you, she let you down gently.
>I absolutely know I can pull chics when I want
get a fucking grip, if you could actually pull chicks when you want you wouldn't be crying over this girl not wanting you.

>Should I feel wrong about hitting on other chics if I'm with her?
Uh fuck no. You don't owe any girl anything unless you've mutually agreed on being a in a committed, exclusive relationship.

God I hate SJW feminists. Why are dumbfucks like you so quick to demonize people like OP for no reason at all?

I bet she wants to fuck dude she just wants you to work for it.

Touching you and holding your hand? Bro. Even if there's that 10% chance she does not want to fuck it's your civic duty to show her that behavior like that rouses men's hearts and loins--this is how they learn. If you let that roll she'll be someone's wife one day thinking she can do that with her friends.

If you start hitting on girls in front of her you'll prolly end up in the "we might fuck when we get drunk" zone, but the guy who said to just hang out with her and find a new target on your own time gave the best advice if you don't want to press on this girl.

>there is no such thing as the friendzone
>you just didn't make the cut
>she doesn't want to be romantically involved
Are you being deliberately obtuse? That's exactly what the friend zone is.

SJW feminists get weird about the term "friend zone." Apparently acknowledging that people sometimes aren't romantically attracted to people is offensive, and a simple acknowledgment of that fact means you're entitled and full of hate... or something.

Just cut off contact. She's using you as a dopamine farm. Chicks aren't bros OP.

I'm in a similar situation except she acts like a very sincere and true friend. This is incredibly rare especially from women I've known. After I told her my feelings and she turned me down, we had a period of a couple of weeks without talking but now we are closer than ever. If she is a truly good friend no reason to cut her off. Itll sound weird but it's fun going out with my friend and having people look at us like we are a couple. Makes me feel good about myself and gives me some hope.

Women want men to not be entitled yet lose their shit when a guy turns them down and bitch and cry endlessly about the ones who fuck and chuck them. Pretty sad honestly.

Cuz they have to invalidate young impressionable men they see as weak, as a means of bringing them under their thumb. Makingthem a simp/schlub/chump/etc.

Yes, that poster is. Because if they obfuscate their own self awareness, there's no way to ever "win" against them or somesuch bullshit.

Even if you already don't believe you are owed anything (let alone sex) by women, apparently by not joining their chorus "Woe as victimhood!" whenever some gal is being a bitch and brings it on herself...you are still entitled, and are (insert predictable feminazi responses and insults on cue) because you're not "woke".

Just let her down gently and keep ignoring her. If she makes point of getting back in contact, I'd say she's either in want of your D and is reevaluating, OR, far more likely it's her shit testing you because she's already seen you as romantically noncompatible so...get her out of your life now before she takes to sabotaging you.

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Dude this answer is genuine as fuck. I wish I wasn't busy I'm gonna come back to this thread

The Cuckening: The first chapter

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Hit on her best friend while YOU tell her you still want to be friends

at this level of friendzone i'd bet she's a petty bitch
>her mind
"no user, you're my back up beta orbiter for after I can find new chads and tyrones, you're not allowed to talk to other girls"

Seriously though, op isn't even being the "nice guy". He's not complaining about it and is in fact actually considerate enough that he thinks he might be hurting her feelings for pursuing other girls. You're a good guy op not one of those shitty "nice guys".

They can't survive without desperate beta orbiters to feed their ego and pockets. The term friendzone is the word that slowly but surely breaks the spell they have over them.

Congrats. Put a quarter in your ass you played yourself. I fucking guarantee somewhere along the relationship she will suggest an open relationship knowing damn well it's waaaay easier for chicks to pickup on guys than for guys on girls.

Take this advice and see what happens

Is having a 'backup man' really that horrible of a thing? It's just for our peace of mind, so that we know we have another route to happiness available to us, and that it isn't the end of the world if our boyfriend leaves us. Just because you have a Plan B doesn't mean you're not committed to Plan A. If things work out with the current boyfriend, great! I'll be faithful to him forever and we'll live together happily ever after. If not, I have a means of minimizing the heartbreak.

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It's not really up to you to decide if it is or isn't. It's up to the dude you're keeping around.

in terms of how you should personally think about it. maybe your worth the friend you're keeping around atm but after you spent all of your beautiful years looking for someone better you could not be worth him anymore. Are you willing to take that chance? are you willing to risk falling into the alpha widow mindset?

I think some people might equate 'backup man' with 'having an affair.' I'm entirely faithful in relationships, but I would be lying if I said it doesn't feel nice to know that options do exist if things don't work out in my current relationship.

I was referring to the backup man. If he's fine with the whole idea and the man you got is fine with it then it'll work out perfectly. It'll put a slightly unneeded strain on both of these relationships though. Probably anyway, at least in my experience and the experiences of those around me it seems that way. It's not the thing that people break up over but it makes other things worse.

Well, technically, every guy that has feelings for me is a 'backup option.' I don't have just Plan A or Plan B; I probably have all the way up to a Plan Z.

I don't deliberately lead guys on or try to sustain/water their feelings, though. I just treat them like a regular friend, and only occasionally give any consideration to the fact that they technically represent an additional option. I don't see things ever falling through with my boyfriend, so it's not something I really need to think about, even if on a vague, abstract level I think it's nice that I have some options as opposed to none.

It's not really spite.. it's you doing your thing which you are entitled to. She's made her choice and she's been clear.
What the other user is getting at, is that you'll be doing your thing, but also you run a chance of spurring some feels in her and making her rethink it.
If she does, bonus for you. If she doesn't, then fuck her, man. You can't swear an oath of celibacy and give up what you want (a GF) because you have feels for some chick who won't be that for you.

That's reasonable. A lot of the "friendzone" talk is primarily aimed at guys that can't handle it and for guys that are being taken advantage of or are throwing time and money at a problem time and money wont fix. Being friends and there being a potential for a future relationship is pretty much ok when the guy isn't doing nothing and waiting for you and when you're not treating him as an emotional crutch at crazy hours of the night and for too many hours of the day. I can be friends with a girl but i'm not answering her drunk texts/calls unless I'm already up and doing stuff and i'm not going out of my way to help her every week on a moments notice. That's the kind of thing were trying to prevent when talking about the friendzone.

This is some serious truth op. This kind of situation is the true players base. Ladies will open up to you faster and more frequently because you're with her and when she sees this she'll probably start to want you. It's basically a win win.

Thank you, I do care about her. She's my friend first off. She just gives me so much indication physically and verbally too that she wants more but she says otherwise idek if she's just hard to get maybe

Some girls are just affectionate. Sometimes I have surges of affection and nuzzle my male friends, or kiss them on the forehead or cheek, or wrap my arms around them for a few minutes (or longer, one time I cuddled this one guy during the entire duration of a movie), but that doesn't mean any romantic feelings are present.

Take her at her word. Like Ive said, she told you what she wants. If you doing other things hurts her, that's her responsibility, not yours.
It's not as heartless as it seems, bro.
And yeah, you can't stop your entire romantic life because you're scared to hurt someone who, if it does hurt her, completely made her own bed.

On the side of things to express my opinion: "we wouldn't be good for each other" is pretty damn foolish if she means it and isn't letting you down east. Love isn't a checklist you can structure and analyse and predict. It's a sub conscious chemistry. it works or it doesn't regardless of what you'd figure. That's just my feels on what she said.

Would it be senseless to give myself a deadline? Like what If I tell myself I'll accept this sortve friendzone relationship for like another couple weeks or so and feel out how our dates go. Cause a lot of the time it genuinely feels like I'm on a date with her

We have future plans for stuff constantly and she always wants to know when we will hangout again idk so much gf type stuff. Like I've had gfs it feels like I'm with my gf when I'm with her.

Idk this is so stupid idk girls don't ever treat me like she does unless they really want me in their life

>Like Ive said, she told you what she wants. If you doing other things hurts her, that's her responsibility, not yours.
It's not as heartless as it seems, bro.
And yeah, you can't stop your entire romantic life because you're scared to hurt someone who, if it does hurt her, completely made her own bed.

This right here.

FWIW to add my 2cents...I've had stumblings. Friend of mine involved me in something he had no business involving me in...I thought it was just a casual backyard grill get together. Naive.

He pulls a F'n'run a week later. He's a neanderthal and a shit talker but he had the social intelligence to pull it off and leave my contact info for when she could not get in contact with him (wouldn't pick up the phone).

I had to learn the hard way the goody-good crap of yesteryear isn't valid and it never was. I later grew a pair, beat the ever-loving shit outta him. Wouldn't you know it, he can play the emotion card so well that he got her back in bed a few times sometime later while she snorted crack (and took it in the), and got her to give me a nasty phone call. And then he left again. Only this time I told her to get lost each time she called. When she wouldn't fuck off after about the third time, and insisted it "wasn't like that", I tested it out asking for a date--she never called back.

Dude meanwhile burned all his bridges and got chased outta town, and I think another friend and he were 'closet bumping' if you catch my drift. Always did seem like he went both ways. *shrugs*

I digress... Point is, this happened because I missed the cues. She says one thing but does another, attraction isn't logical. Like user says it's subconscious chemistry.

Later I learned form tomboys and viking princesses (reviled because they "give away the secrets") that basically an orbiter gets no respect. A "nice" guy is creepy in all the bad ways. While a genuine guy is different from "nice" , this is fuck-all to do with attraction.

>Would it be senseless to give myself a deadline? Like what If I tell myself I'll accept this sortve friendzone relationship for like another couple weeks or so and feel out how our dates go.

It's sensible. 'Cept I'd cut off maybe a little sooner like 10 days to make it two weekends or something. Then if it hits the 'deadline', just walk away and never look back.

Don't be a 'toy'. A hot commodity is always in demand and on the move. Like good opportunity, it's never available for long. This is the opposite of the available 'nice' guy.

Kinda this

I hate blanketing people and assuming I know what they're thinking but one thing I noticed about some women (and experienced) is some of them like to have their cake and eat it, too.

You're providing her with her emotional needs of a relationship. Something women are more into than men. And you're doing it without a commitment. She's happy and emotionally fulfilled, heck, might even have strong feelings for you. But she's getting what she wants and remains free. She might not even realise she's doing this.

That makes sense. I kinda want to try this deadline thing. I'm young I do have some time to waste on a pointless girl but I won't waste much time. Few weeks sounds good.

I think I actually exited this thread more level headed. This board is blessed with actually having based anons who just want to share life experience and advice btw

Am I the only one who thinks the hatred against Nice Guys is overblown? They're treated like outright bad people, and that's a bit much. I'm not a Nice Guy - I've always been pretty gracious about being turned down, and don't feel particularly 'entitled' to a relationship (even if I do desire one) - but what they're 'guilty' of comes down to resenting people who don't deserve it. I've had plenty of misplaced anger myself towards people for different reasons, so what would make me (or anyone else who isn't a saint) better than a Nice Guy?

This was pretty based to read.

Though, I know just from being self aware that I'm neither a creep or nice guy. I just don't fit those categories. I have boundaries, and I don't let people walk over me, nor do I ever be awkward I don't even know how to be awkward anymore. I'm super good at making others feel comfortable, always consider people's feelings.

I just seriously have hit what feels like a fork in the road and I'm just waiting for a divine sign or something to give me more of a push in a proper direction

It's really up to you man. I don't think you're prepared for this emotionally though and she doesn't have appropriate boundaries. How often are you guys hanging out because friends don't hang out all the fucking time unless they both got nothing going on all the time (which is something you should fix if its the case for you) and they live like, right next to each other. I don't even hang with my buddies but like 1x a week maybe.

People don't hate nice guys. They love nice guys. Even women do.
>I'm not a nice guy
Then maybe you'll have the perspective and probably have seen this, too. No nice guy claims to be a nice guy. They're just themselves.
The moment some dude says "rar women, I'm a nice guy" they probably aren't nice at all. They're filled with anger bitterness and resentment, have a vapid world view, are highly judgemental, and think because theyre extra nice to women they deserve someone to just fall in their lap.
They refuse to see themselves for who they are, work on themselves, or take accountability for themselves, and hey want to blame others for their failures citing the fact they're "nice" (probably based on a few cherry picked memories) means they don't deserve to be treated poorly. And not just women, people can see right through that shit.

Tl;Dr when you're talking about people hating on "nice guys", they're using the term ironically, because the dude probably isn't nice at all.

I think she's pretty self aware of what she's doing. But I'm also super self aware. And extremely honest. I can't be much more honest with her because I don't even know myself if I want a relationship with her. She just seemed like a girl who was giving me indications of wanting me in her life. Maybe I just wanna hangout with her more.

Well I'm glad we could help level your head, but honestly you seem pretty centered.
I'm confident you'll figure it out. All will be well.

We've been hanging out like 1-3x per week for the past maybe 1-2months.

We aren't just sitting around talking though we are normally doing something active like a sport or working out but we have gone to a party as each other's plus 1 and we've gone to get lunch, she's come over to my work and brought me food, we've gotten ice cream together, shit she even pays a lot of the time like most of the time

It feels so odd but good to have a conversation with someone whose not just calling me a profanity or retarded on Jow Forums. I've appreciated you and the other anons so much.

I used to be involved with some degenerates. I'm just so emotionally aloof that I let those people fuck themselves over and don't give em help even on the first run. I'll still have contact with them occasionally but it's mostly just the dude that's my friend and the degenerate is the older sister I dated for a minute with no commitment. He's nothing great either but he doesn't fuck you over unless you're talking about living there and him taking your drugs, booze, and food just to feed and fuck himself up. Never lived there so I never had to worry about it. That shits fucking hilarious though you know those people are gonna have mostly shit lives.

I know the origin of the term and the implied meaning behind it, yeah. I just... I'm not sure if being a "Nice Guy" makes someone worse than the average person. I might not be a Nice Guy, but I can be excessively vicious whenever I feel attacked or bullied and speak to people in a way that nobody should ever speak to others, and I have trouble growing attached to people (childhood blah de blah) and thus have difficulty sometimes with feeling love or empathy (which does play a role in the fact that I've never been guilty of being a Nice Guy - I'm pretty detached and don't have strong feelings towards most people anyway).

For that matter, is being a Nice Guy worse than constantly talking down to your wife, as certain family members of mine are guilty of? Is it worse than rejecting someone for being gay, as my grandfather did to one of his grandchildren? Is it worse than the COUNTLESS cases of group bullying I've seen both online and offline throughout my entire life, often aimed at perfectly nice people who mind their own business and are guilty of nothing worse than being awkward or fat or some other similarly trivial thing?

I dunno. Being a Nice Guy just seems like fairly routine levels of shittiness, honestly. I can say without a doubt that I'm better than a serial killer or a rapist, but I don't know if I would say that I'm an all-around better person than a Nice Guy. I have my own faults and my own skeletons.

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>I hate blanketing people and assuming I know what they're thinking but one thing I noticed about some women (and experienced) is some of them like to have their cake and eat it, too.
> (brevity) She might not even realise she's doing this

Now I think you're starting to catch on.

>Few weeks sounds good.

NO. You're missing the point. You gotta be on the MOVE. "The one that got away". You want her to bemoan losing out on you--if you stick around too long and she's toying you, just the *opposite* will happen.
I tend to agree with Then you understand the necessity for social refinement: Don't be oblivious, yet don't be overly sensitive. Just on the ball.

>I just seriously have hit what feels like a fork in the road and I'm just waiting for a divine sign or something to give me more of a push in a proper direction

Then let me be that for you. There's an old chinese saying: "To allow fate to decide is to invite defeat." Sun Tzu in the Art of War I think. Decisiveness (thoughtful) is an attractive masculine trait btw.

Look...I've posted on adv. I'm a damaged soul who was sexually abused as a kid. Missed social development. Learned late. You don't wanna end up like me, banging broads in a cat house in your 30s, working physically active job 6-7d/wk and trying to find time to take better care b/c you missed the window while it was upon you and you were stewing.

>No worse than anyone else
Oh I agree there. And it's the bullying that probably leads there.
I used to have a bit of "nice guy" think when I was much younger and it's because I was a target through school.
Pretty much realised later in with maturity I was as bad as everyone else, but I ended up the outside one so I lashed out that way because I was pretty nice to people (trying to get their acceptance probably).

Off topicish but I really enjoy Buddhist wisdom sometimes. Particularly the true nature of people. No ones nice or awful. We're just reactive to our environments. We all care about someone, love someone, are charitable, do our best; and we can all be giant ass fucks and get carried away with a crowd, negative feeling or behaviour.
We're just a weird animal.

Yeah. That's another thing. Can't really help someone if they don't care in the first place.
"All the drugs in this world won't save her from herself." Marylin Manson, coma white.

Just don't get conceited. We're all just that one bad thing away from something happening to us.

We're giant hairless rats with pretty lights to play with. Rats have opposable thumb nubs too.

Well man, you could just be cool if your heart can handle it which basically requires you to look at her as not relationship material. If you're in love with her it probably won't work for you to be friends with her like that but if you're alpha then she's probably gonna be a future fuckbuddy even though I would say you should just find god and not fuck around with that premarital sex bullshit. She's just trying to butter you up as her back up man while you should be buttering her up as a fuck buddy after she realizes she ain't landing some 666 guy.

Or, find god, do gods work, receive gods blessings.

I do this. I want to be a good servant of god. I pray to him that I be good and treat others well. And I truly believe I can be good though I know I have flaws that can be improved. Living for God helps me cope with life for sure.

That is based. The old Chinese saying. I admire things like that and traits of masculinity. I don't aim to be indecisive at all. But even knowing that she probably just wants to friendzone me I'll give it 10days like the other user said. 10days seems good. After then I'll have no problem moving on. I'll find a girl who will want me.

You sound like a genuine nice guy, no capitals.

>I'll give it 10days like the other user said. 10days seems good.

That was me as well. Point being you're playing it regardless if you want to or not, regardless if you're aware or not. Strike the iron while it's hot, or pitch it.

Thanks user for talking to me about this in gonna pray for you