Why would she be with me when she could be with anyone else?

Even a 5/10 woman will still have a lot of male attention. It's been show that men are less fussy about a woman's appearance. Yeah we might jerk off to Megan Fox or whoever but when it comes to RL we ain't that fussy. Women on the otherhand will only be physically attracted to a standout guy.
>That's not how life works. You don't upgrade people you love like you'd upgrade phones when the next model comes around
That's exactly what happens tho

>That's exactly what happens tho
It's not. Do you think people who stay together for 30 or 40 years do it because no one else ever crossed their path?

>Women on the otherhand will only be physically attracted to a standout guy.
Iunno, my dad's a redhead. On the other hand, he's quite physically fit. My mom basically decided 'this is mine now' and he ran with it because they were both looking for the same thing in a relationship.

That's becoming increasingly rarer nowadays. There is no sanctity or commitment to a relationship anymore. As soon as things get a lil rough or unsatisfactory, people quit and look elsewhere

It's not. People get divorced less than they did 30 years ago, I know plenty of people in long term relationships and stuff.

I don't know.

You're lucky.

Why do some people win the lottery?

This is a fucking terrible universe.

Good jorb mang.

No matter what people want to pretend women will always hold all the cards in relationships, it's just how the dynamic goes. They will always be less invested because they have an easier time bouncing back, and in a relationship the person who is less invested always has the more powerful position.

In what incel cuck fantasy world do you live in where men outnumber women 10 to 1?

>in a relationship the person who is less invested always has the more powerful position.
That's like saying that the person who has less money invested in a business is more powerful. It only works if you assume that the joint venture is doomed to fail- and it usually does as a result, because people aren't willing to sit down and plan what they actually want to accomplish in a relationship. Because that's BOOORING.
Suck it up, you ninny. It's not all roses and champagne. If the other person isn't willing to accept the idea that maybe you need to think through a long-term relationship, they clearly don't care about you as a person in the big sense.

You got a dick?

You ever tried to put your dick in all the people who you wanted to?

Doesn't work so well, does it?

Because people who have what you want to put your dick in control whose dicks are put in them, and yours is either one of them or it's not.

That's not "hold[ing] all the the cards in the relationship" - it's fucking physics.

Whoever is wanted has the more powerful position compared to anyone who wants them.

Life is terrible when you want someone who doesn't want you.

Tell me how not to be in that position, though.

No one is pretending.

>That's like saying that the person who has less money invested in a business is more powerful
Not at all, in fact it's called the principle of least interest and it's a widely accepted sociological concept.
There is also some old research on it who showed how this applies to real relationships, but they're from the 80s so it shows men having more power due to women depending economically on them.
Now women do not need men to make a living (this is a good thing), but due to how sex works it means they now hold most of the power since they can bounce back into another relationship much easier whereas men will want to keep access to consistent sex.

In a world where you never see any women regardless of the activity or location. You start to believe that women aren't real because you only see them on TV or the internet.
I really miss the days where girls were forced to talk to me. Ever since I left highschool, everything has been interested driven, so obviously everything is gender segregated.

I can't fucking convince you to trust other people if you choose to view relationships as a scorecard. Sure, I guess I'm stupid and naive and I expect to be able to take people at their word without being fucked over at the earliest possible convenience. God forbid people actually enjoy being with their partner instead of constantly looking for the next big thing.

she wants to be with you when other girls want to be with you

Why would your employer hire you when they could hire someone else? Why would your friends be friends with you when they could be friends with someone else? See where this rabbit hole goes? This is not about women having a monopoly on relationships. This is all about your crippling fear of not being good enough and being abandoned by people you care about.

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Friends aren't exclusive tho.

>If the other person isn't willing to accept the idea that maybe you need to think through a long-term relationship, they clearly don't care about you as a person in the big sense.

Lol, you cuck - maybe they don't want a long-term relationship. Maybe they just want to have sex with you.

Like, what does "you as a person in the big sense" have to do with "you as a person who wants to fuck"?

You could be the deepest trench of human consciousness this world has ever seen, but still have sex with people who don't even recognize it.

There is no "big sense."

>Friends aren't exclusive tho.
It doesn't really matter. What matters is that instead of focusing on building a lasting, strong connection with the people in his life OP is basing his entire concept of relationships around his fear of abandonment. It also completely lacks any nuanced understanding of relationships. It fails to put any value on the substance of relationships and merely insists that people are only with each other because they haven't found someone better - as if all it takes to destroy years of love and commitment is for a hotter person to come around. Sure, it happens sometimes, but OP is deftly unaware of the inherent value of commitment in relationships and how powerful the bonds between people can be when you actually allow yourself to commit to someone and build a bond with them. Fearing that every relationship could fail any minute is a great way to tank those relationships before they even get started. No normal, well-adjusted person, man or woman, is going to want to stay in a relationship where the bulk of their time is spent convincing their partner that they are good enough. Its exhausting.

>as if all it takes to destroy years of love and commitment is for a hotter person to come around.

Yeah, that's basically true.

They might ask nice, but they want to fuck Chad.

Just let them fuck Chad and die as quietly as you can.

Maybe death is better.

>instead of focusing on building a lasting, strong connection with the people in his life OP is basing his entire concept of relationships around his fear of abandonment
This is all that needs to be said.

OP, reflect on this and you will find answers to all your questions.

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Again, this is not about the actions of the women in your life. This is about the festering anxiety inside of you that constantly worries about being abandoned - the part of you that won't allow you to be happy and convinces you that you will always be betrayed because the idea of truly allowing yourself to love someone then being left behind like a piece of garbage is an excruciating thought. You're scared. You convince yourself that happiness doesn't exist because the thought of having happiness then watching it being taken away is too painful.

So what's the answer?

I don't think you're stupid and naive, I'm just saying these things exist and have influence in relationships. The more invested part always stands to lose more and as such will do more to salvage the relationship

People who think like this worry me. All it says to me is if you thought you had more sexual freedom to choose you'd hop from hot to hotter chick.

I mean this is basically what society drills in our heads. Never settle, go get it, you're worth more yadda yadda. Being complacent and content with what you have is seen as a bad quality so it was only a matter of time before it got applied to relationships too.

Hormones, oxytocin.

You people are psychopaths. You don't just enter a relationship with someone because of the status society puts on their looks. Or normal people don't. You make a connection with someone so good that if someone technically hotter comes along, you don't even flinch.
I genuinely couldn't imagine seeing being happy in my relationship as complacency.

I'm not talking about myself so much as the underlying mindset (though I wish I was a psychopath, life would be easier). Though I do believe your way of thinking is a bit naive. Love is grounded in a lot of things and attraction, status and other stuff do play a big part. It's not this magical thing noone understands.

I bet the guy you're with is pretty attractive in a conventional way or you wouldnt be with him. There are two types of men in this world: those who women like, and those who they don't. Not all women like all the same man, but if you look at a guy and you really like him, there is a strong chance other women do too.

But women have far more sexual options than any man who's not in the top 1%. Anyone who denies this is just a clown.

>Love is grounded in a lot of things and attraction, status and other stuff do play a big part
This is my point, man. You should not be getting with someone simply because of the status you'd get for their looks, you're supposed to be with them because of all the things that make them them. At no point did I say attraction or looks has nothing to do with it.

But people do leave, all the time. None of my good friends from the past decade have stuck around. Most of them bounced because as you said they didnt like my insecurities, which is laughable because I sat and listened to their shit without judging them all the time. So yes, people really are traitorous leeches. It's like that movie The Thing; you never know who among your circle is just another fucking alien parasite.

>But women have far more sexual options than any man who's not in the top 1%
Yeah, and? Is this supposed to be some excuse for viewing relationships like a child and building your entire worldview around your crippling fear of rejection? Grow up, user. Relationships are much more complicated than simply scorecards and society assigned sexual values. That's NPC shit. Go outside and speak to human beings and get this idea out of your head that defeatism is any kind of acceptable approach to your life's issues.

The reason we say looks money and status is because if you're a man and no woman wants you, chances are you have none of those things. Nobody likes to admit it but being ugly boring and poor is not something women want to deal with even if you're a sweet guy or a really good match.

You are simply wrong. Are you a liar or autistically stupid? You have literally zero knowledge about women. You are just parroting incel mantras since you have never actually observed women in real life.

>relationships are more than scorecards and sexual values
Objectively not really, no. This is like saying a car is more than its engine. Yeah that's technically true but you go exactly nowhere without one. Similarly you get nowhere in romance without romantic value.

I think a guy who no women want to be with is an expert on exactly what women *don't* want more than most normies.

>But people do leave, all the time.
Absolutely, and by adopting a mechanism of processing relationships built entirely around your crippling fear of abandonment you almost ensure that you will be abandoned because, as I said, constantly being burdened with the responsibility of shoring up someone else's self-esteem is exhausting.

>Most of them bounced because as you said they didnt like my insecurities, which is laughable because I sat and listened to their shit without judging them all the time
I'm just going to make the assumption that you have a difficult time differentiating "listening to people's shit" with "shouldering the entire weight of somebody's existential dread". Chances are your insecurities manifests itself in ways that you probably don't even realize. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you possess one or maybe a few obsessive qualities about you? Maybe some control issues?

>So yes, people really are traitorous leeches. It's like that movie The Thing; you never know who among your circle is just another fucking alien parasite.
You just need some therapy, dude. Your fear of abandonment has just warped everything about you and at this point the only self-defense mechanism you have against your misery is angry. Better to reject and hate the people before they get a chance to reject and hate you. I understand the impulse, user, but if you don't get help you're gonna be sad as fuck for the rest of your life.

>money and status
>ugly boring and poor
So you shifted goalposts there by adding boring, js. Nobody wants to deal with someone who is boring. But if you're funny, charismatic and sweet, being poor or ugly isn't so much of an issue, is it? Constantly I see people assuming that an ugly short guy got a hot gf because of his money, but if you do any research you see that they don't always have any money. This mindset of writing off any interest women would have in you for you is not only defeatist, but will give your romantic interactions with women a subtle edge that will likely put them off.

>Objectively not really, no.
Firstly, it doesn't sound as though you've actually been in a serious long term relationship. You wouldn't view life as some kind of RPG with points and scorecards if you had actually at any point in your life become significantly emotionally invested in a relationship with another human being. Secondly, it appears as though you don't understand the meaning of the word "objective".

>This is like saying a car is more than its engine.
The fact that I have to tell you that a human being isn't equivalent to a car is troubling, user.

Yeah listening to people rant about their ex for hours a day, weeks on end must be really different from me being insecure and having hangups of my own. Nevermind me talking to people on the phone for hours on end about their own problems. Nevermind me doing everything I can to help them battle their own self admitted depression and existential dread.

And if they didn't want to shoulder it they could have said this outright. Not act like it's fine when even I myself said things like "I'm sorry I talk about this so much". Big fucking think.

>nobody wants to
Okay then, don't. I will die alone because nobody cares about my happiness.

>you're gonna be sad as fuck for the rest of your life
That's fine, I will kill myself sooner or later anyways.

None of this is true. I see ugly, boring poor people in relationships with ugly, boring poor people all the time. If what you're talking about is the phenomenon where ugly, boring poor people are somehow flabbergasted that they aren't entitled to a 10/10 out of some misguided sense of universal
"fairness" then sure but lets be honest here - undesirable human beings fuck all the time. I don't know where you guys got the idea that ugly boring people just wandered the earth alone for the duration of their lives. I see those weird fuckers dry humping in the park and smoking marbs outside 711 literally all the time.

Yeah, you do what you want dude. I've kind of given you my take on things but you seem pretty dead set on being miserable. God speed.

Who the fuck said people are like cars? I said that a car has a piece of it which is necessary to it starting. Just like a relationship has a necessary starting point - attraction. And this is based off of very observable physiological factors which, if not enough are present in a given person, not very many people if any will be attracted to them.

>it doesn't sound as if you've actually been in a relationship
You don't need to experience something in order to understand it all. Again, as an incel, I'm a rejection expert. I know exactly what they don't want, which gives me a good idea of what they do want.

>I know exactly what they don't want, which gives me a good idea of what they do want.
I'm a little intrigued by this and I know I'm gonna regret it but here goes anyway. How do you "know" what they don't want? I'm assuming you just take your physical and personality traits that seem to get the most knock back and contrast and compare to traits you see them like. How do you factor in individual opinions or invisible factors that you have no way of knowing about?

So? You can still come along a person that is just better or you're more attracted to than them, and you'll dump them and move onto the better prospect.

I'm not even OP. All you said was ra ra abandonment issues. I said that it does happen and you backpedaled and said "oh well they had a reason for it lol". I'm sure everyone has a "good reason" for bailing on someone even if they were very good friends. Perhaps if I had the same kind of power I could hurt people and not give a shit either.

You're a psychopath. The point is to create a connection. Lord almighty I'm so glad I'm not dating atm because you people are terrifying.

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Good question, it's a little hard to articulate. Confidence indeed plays a big factor, women really do like men who "lead" and are "strong". I think a lot of this has less to do with some inherent biological factor of men always being stronger, and more so that people like to have someone who's going to coddle them and take care of them and their problems - it's just that it's socially acceptable for women to desire this, yet hardly the other way around. Hence women not liking insecurity or shyness, it doesn't "serve" them, it doesn't put a relationship in their lap, they hate the idea of having to ask a guy out because it would mean that they had to risk rejection by being emotionally vulnerable, and this is something everyone has a hard time with but men are forced to endure.

>I'm assuming you just take your physical and personality traits that seem to get the most knock back and contrast and compare to traits you see them like.
More or less, yeah,

>How do you factor in individual opinions or invisible factors that you have no way of knowing about?
I kind of just know by the way women look at me and how they act around me that they aren't interested. Most any woman I've talked to places a great deal of importance not only on looks, but on first impressions. I know that I'm not confident, I know that I'm not good looking, I know that I'm not funny, I know that I'm not charismatic, and in short I know I'm just not attractive. Having basically none of these things is why women don't want me. And please, don't insist I'm just low on self esteem: I downloaded Tinder and got zero matches despite having it for six months. I've had women say to my face that they don't want to fuck me, as a form of rejection (when I didn't even ask for sex, just for a date etc.)

I wanted to believe you but then I remember my ex dumped me after almost 4 years for a friend of mine who is so similar to me that people used to believe we were brothers. The only difference is that he is rich and 6'2 and I'm middle class and 5'4

So yeah fuck you

I don't even know what you're arguing, are you saying people don't leave other because they find someone more they're more attracted to all the time?

I don't mean to be a bother, after all.

None of you are actually women so you don’t realize that being a woman is shit and no one cares about you.
It is the most isolating experience.

No, he will make up the most retarded scenarios.
>women don't like me
>I'm x
>therefore women don't like x
That's why such people seriously think women don't like them because they are too nice, too smart, and so on.

I mean if you have X and women don't want to be with you, it's not wrong to think X could be the problem. I don't know any guy who's ever thought women truly don't like nice guys, it's usually that those guys think they're ugly and boring and being nice has nothing to do with it, if you actually talk to them.

How am I supposed to get over my abandonment issues then? I shy away from girls because I'm scared of the thought of being with them, growing closer, only for them to turn around and break my heart. I think this is far easier for women than men. Women can check out of relationships easier and have more backup options to fill the void.

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After all, maybe we just don't have any control over who we fall in love with, and if they happen to love us back, then we win, and if they don't, then I guess better luck next time around, and we just die alone.

Seems like a pretty shitty fucking way to run a universe to me, but what do I know?

If I knew any better, I'd find a way to not die alone, wouldn't I?

yeah just think about how it'll turn out when they hit 40 (or even sooner for most of them ), you'll just end up with a old saggy bitch that lost the only interest she use'd to have and now you're stuck with an inssuferable cunt you can't even look in the eye without regret because you got nothing in common but regret for picking the top 10% for that thight ass that will eventually get floppy.

I don’t care about you.

>he's my best friend

so you basically friendzoned him

this shows how much you value him

Fucking kek a woman can't even be friends with her boyfriend without an incel being fucking triggered.

>that incel logic

you don't often get outside your basement, don't you?

>Women have such a monopoly on relationships. They could be with practically any hot guy they can find.
No they can't. This is simply a false statement if you have any social/dating experience.

If it's only for sex, then probably yes. Sex is very easy to get for women even if she's not that attractive.

As far as relationships go, i'm not so sure if women are at such a great advantage compared to men. I know plenty of women who can easily hook up with random guys, but they can't get any of these guys to commit to them to save their lives.

Just stop being a low-value beta male and you'll soon realize you're quite valuable to women. As long as you display certain characteristics women desire.

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the phone has to buy them too

>just quit being low value and then you won't be low value
Sage advice my friend, thanks so much for your wisdom. Brb becoming a completely different person now.

best comment

>People get divorced less than they did 30 years ago

they also get married less than they did 30 years ago.

washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/06/23/144-years-of-marriage-and-divorce-in-the-united-states-in-one-chart/?utm_term=.31bf45b5f771

yeah, I work from home and the only women I ever talk to are the ones working at stores and restaurants. The last conversation I've had with a woman was 2 years ago before my mom died.

>Just stop being a low-value beta male
>and you'll soon realize you're quite valuable to women.
>As long as you display certain characteristics women desire.

So basically once I stop being bad looking, grow taller, and throw money around women will see value in me and actually say yes to a date? Well I'll get right on that, "Grow, grow, grow..."

Being attractive is not all about being tall and rich.

I'm not gonna write a long tldr guide on how to be attractive, you can do a google search yourself. Also, reading some PUA stuff can help as well.

shit brah this hurt man

Once you stop being such a whiny insecure faggot.

Just admit that chads are born, not made. and every girl wants chad.
tell me what to do if i am not chad

I'm considered an attractive woman and my boyfriend is not. However I've never seen him this way. To me he's very cute and I like his stature and find his voice to be raspy/deep. When we have sex, I don't want someone with a bitch voice to say the things we say. Thing is most men are pretty ugly. A lot of the things women find hot or attractive about men are the smaller details of him. Sure you have your Apollos out there but like an attractive women, it's hard to tell these kind of attractive qualities apart because they're usually the same between everyone.Think better of yourself, ask her what she likes about you and you'll probably be surprised.

Just admit chads are made, not born. This is the truth. If you want to be a chad then become one. That's what chads did.

>this is what manlets actually believe
keep telling yourself that down there sweetie
chads are entirely born
you think a weakling could ever become a Chad unless it's a fucking action movie?
that happens only in a few cases
but once a baby has experienced his chad-defining moments, he can't stop being a Chad.

either kill yourself or get self-confidence, don't be Chad and eventually you'll be an ordinary male specimen. Or kill yourself.

What defines a chad? What unchangeable traits at birth?

gold

Confidence. Fearlessness. Tall. Strong.
Basically grown up with lots of testosterone and tall genes.
literally google chad

the longer I look at a pussy, the weirder it starts to look until it looks really ugly...something about those small details
maybe men look more negatively to details and more positive to the entire picture while the reverse might be true for girls

Yes, chads are mostly made. Chad is nothing more than a slang term for a genetically gifted guy who's good looking and extroverted. Thus he can easily get chicks.

But even if you're not genetically gifted, you can still do fairly well with girls if you know what you're doing. There are plenty of guys who aren't all that great looking but they're still getting laid.

>the longer I look at a pussy, the weirder it starts to look until it looks really ugly
Have you ever taken a long hard look at your own dick?

his chadness. Stop playing semantics, we all know what being a Chad means, even if defining it is a hard task.
It too becomes weird looking...especially when shaven, but less

Dating is an approximation of the Gale-Shapely algorithm.

GS has a strong bias toward those who "propose".

In other words, according to the math, while women seem to have more control here, they actually get worse results.

Luckily biases mean shit when you're butt fucking ugly

I'm concerned with your obsession with this woman

She has big beefers

Is learned. Is learned. Irrelevant. Is trained for.

Chads are made and not born so just stop memeing already.