Could someone explain why rising the minimum wage is a bad thing in the US?

because international capitalists want a
1% aristocrat class and the poor masses model and not a middle class model ala 50's America.
So extra profit from efficiency increases go solely to the 1% while mass immigration kills wages and foreign investment and money printing dramatically inflates housing prices and other similar necessities.
its basically the system that worst fucks over the lower classes while I assume best suits the international capitalist classes and those in professions that benefit as a side note

Fun fact.
Minimum wage from 1960 America today if adjusting for inflation would be nearly $30 dollers per hour

>jobs for teenagers
when will this shit meme end. enjoy having nothing open at all outside school hours

Sorry I should also add its a also a system that best suits people with established wealth and people who own property/stocks etc...

Because most businesses are taxed and fined out the ass to the point where theyre already pushing their limits to pay their employees. This is something that was actually caused by the obama admin and dems in control. The recession killed a lot of jobs and americans had a big boost in entrepreneurs to dig themselves out of hole that politicians dug us; and when we were finally getting better they slapped everyone with fines and taxes and regulations; not to mention the obamacare individual mandate fiasco. When leftists talk about raising the minimum wage they think every single business owner is some big wig fat cat and not mostly people struggling to keep the lights on, its not feasible for most businesses. On top of that, 15 an hour is signifigantly above a living wage in 90% of the country, but again, liberals literally seem to not think anywhere other than cities even exist

All jobs should pay a living wage and infact "could" under proper models.

There are places where cheap labor is not imported and even people in low level jobs like garbage man are paid very good wages.
We assume these people can't be respected or paid well but in Japan/Austria and many places they actually are.
In the end though the world isn't solely economics.
Tribes must work together to find a way to provide resources and decent life even for people who can't work.
Automation is coming.
Close those borders and eject the divisionary things before its too late.

Because tradies only make 20 to 25 a hour to start, by raising the minimum wage you are spitting on people who are actally needed to keep society moving

Some faggit folding clothes at pacsun doesnt deserve 20 a hour.

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The minimum wage is enough, but only if you live within your means. Find a reasonable apartment and split it with others and don't eat out and you'll be fine.
If you start at minimum wage and are still there in 1 year, you don't have the skills or dedication to earn more and don't deserve more
The purpose of these jobs is to start a career and move up or as a temporary engagement during high school or college

Yes
Even Burger King employee in places like Norway make 20+ dollars an hour
they say u can't pay them well but its a lie, well run societies can indeed do it

everyone deserves a decent quality of life, even the pacsun folder
stop importing immigrants and fetishizing population growth and it won't be a problem to do it

They're usually retarded and think small businesses will die off or something. Every single corporate and political leader here is obsessed with suppressing real wage growth, but paying for the welfare of a $10/h Walmart employee is perfectly fine.
>Because the government raising the minimum wage causes businesses to stop selling products where the business model required cheap labor
Business models which require cheap labor are fundamentally bad for the economy at large.
>and unskilled and no experience labor (high school students) can't get jobs.
No (average) white high school kid is going to work some shitty job for peanuts.
>What do businesses do when they're forced to pay low level employees more? They lay off the less productive ones, increase the workload for others in order to compensate and start looking to automation.
I like how you think any of these things are bad.

>make 20 an hour before taxes
>make like 7 after

European wages are so high because european taxes are high

Why would anyone take on jobs with responsibilities when you could just drop out of life and flip burgers for a living. You would kill skill trades

Amazon is slowly collapsing, pissing off all their vendors and now the growing amount off disgruntled customers, their time is limited

I don't get why burger flippers whine about not getting $15 an hour anyhow. Not like most of those niggers can hold any job for more than a year, let alone that job. Only the young white kids who actually want to do a good job before going to college or jumping to a better job would truly benefit from it, and then minimum wage would be called racist. Unless businesses let the dredges of society get away with shitty service, slacking off, and whatever other bullshit they do. In which case, boycotting them would have to be standard practice.

>From my understanding in the US it doesn't even cover living, let alone rent or bills.
>Which makes no sense.
why even bother? they wont understand anyways. they are americans, third world and proud of it.

it isn't bad, unless you are a republican corporate whore

why not make the minimum wage $500 an hour so everyone is rich then?

So because you don't have (as many) deadly bugs and snakes in the US you don't need to pay your employees a decent wage? Makes perfect sense. American logic everyone.

so increase wages for skilled trades
people in 1950 could easily get a blue-collar job anywhere at anytime and have more economic power then certified skilled tradies have today
the problem is concentrated wealth and the internationalist model.
we can pay tradies more
we can pay min-wagies more

but it requires a change in the distribution of wealth and changes to many models/corporate operation etc...

they fool you into thinking things can only be the way it is and changing it would collapse but that is because they are dishonest and greedy

yes
better to put low skilled people out of work then keep them engaged for peanuts
this would fast-track our finding real solutions to these problems rather then kicking the can by making them survive on peanuts

Less money for the Jews. You aren't a white supremacist are you?

Minimum wage goes up.
Companies now cut jobs to make up the difference
Companies now raise prices to make up the difference.
The result is that the cost of living goes up, which makes that increase in wage you got meaningless because yes, you're making 15% more now, but now everything costs 15% more, so you're back where you started, also jobs have been eliminated, so now there's more unemployment, also your currency gets devalued. It's just bad for everyone.

You don't deserve anything, you have to achieve it yourself. People aren't born skilled, you have to acquire these skills on the job, and if you aren't allowed to work for little money, you will never get a chance to practice and get more skills.

>labor costs double
>thinking cost of goods won't increase to offset costs
>not understands this disproportionately places the increased labor cost on the middle class because everyone else's income remains the same but cost of living goes up
>automation obliterates min wage jobs

Yeah sounds great

The wage isnt whats keeping people down, its all the fucking debt.
Want an education? Not only did you waste 4 to 6 years of your life on a completely worthless degree, youre now nearly 100k in debt.
Want a car? You wouldnt want a practical used vehicle that you can pay off at once and put minimal insurance on; no, you need a brand new 30k car with full coverage insurance.
Want a phone? Well goddamn theyre $1000 now.
Minimum wage isnt the problem, its all this fucking open usury.

What? Are you retarded? It's bad for the economy to have piles of unemployed losers sitting around doing nothing but soaking up welfare and voting for more every cycle.

That's not how inflation works. Inflation comes along by printing new money out of thin air. Which devaluas the money. Like your government has been doing for decades. You think paying the lower classes higher wages causes inflation? Only if you pay them with worthless paper. You could though pay them with real money and wouldn't get any inflation whatsoever. Called redistribution of wealth.
Do you understand now?

All it does is raise the skill floor for hiring at all and encourage automation, thus forcing more people onto public welfare since the unskilled labor pool is theoretically infinite thanks to totally uncontrolled immigration.

the guy you're replying to was replying to someone suggesting every wage should be raised

The market pays people based on the value they bring to the table. If you force the market to pay people more than the value they bring then the market will re-balance itself to counteract that move.

The mechanism by which this happens is that if labour is needed for certain jobs but the job adds less value to the business than they have to pay in minimum wage, then the business has to increase the cost of their products/services to help cover the additional wages of the staff. And in turn this makes the cost of living go up and make the purchasing power of your money go down. And then a few years later the people on minimum wage feel the pinch of raising cost of living so you have to start the whole stupid and retarded process all over again with a new hike in minimum raise.

Meanwhile the raise in minimum wage causes a ripple effect throughout businesses because people are paid proportionally to each other. The reason people goto college and get a degree is to get better jobs and if the low tier jobs that don't require a degree pay the same then there's no incentive to get degrees and invest in education/skills. Which means when the min wage increases employers also have to increase wages for all staff so that the relative incentives of all positions in the market place remain the same. And that amplifies this effect a lot which in turn amplifies the cost in living increase.

What poor people need isn't more money, if you give them more money all that happens is the market re-adjusts and makes things cost more. What they need is more VALUE, money and value are not the same things. If they have more real value then they can demand a higher wage but when they're paid that wage you're not at the same time driving up the cost of living.

If I said to you that you could get paid $100 more per week but that it would cost you $100 more per week to live at your current level, how are you any better off?

>not understanding that labor used to have around 60% of corporate profits but now only has around 50%
>doesn't understand that labor is getting fucked by immigration and a larger piece of the pie going to upper management and stock holders rather then the labor
>doesn't understand that if he reverted to the 60% model and closed the borders we could increase wages without prices going up but that would require government support in restraining corporate greed and preventing unnessesary price increases which of course is impossible given that the wealthy own the politicians and they work for them

Hmm I guess his post can be understood that way yes. I took it as: "Employers should raise every employees wage". I could be wrong though

>It's bad for the economy to have piles of unemployed losers sitting around doing nothing but soaking up welfare and voting for more every cycle.
They're already doing that.

the minimum wage isn't the problem. The US has been trending towards a service economy for decades now, i.e. retail workers and restaurant workers who get paid minimum wage. That is because there are less and less middle class jobs available. The reason for that is because American companies aren't truly American anymore, they are "international."

There are three steps to get a product to market. 1. resource extraction 2. manufacturing plant 3. retail store. American companies have moved steps 1 and 2 to developing countries because it is cheaper, but those were middle class jobs in America that paid relatively well, at least more than retail work. So instead of that wage going to middle class Americans, it is going straight to the CEO's and boardroom and investors. You may think that's not an issue, that that's just how capitalism works, those people at the top deserve the pay because they worked hard and deserve it.

That is short term thinking.

As Americans continue to consume, the money continues to flow to the top earners, meanwhile job growth continues at minimum wage jobs. The money is being sucked out of the middle, lower, and even the upper class and all going to the top earners. A robust lower, middle, and upper class means more spending, more buying of goods and services, but as the best paying jobs, steps 1 and 2, continue to be lost to overseas because it is cheaper, Americans have less and less money to spend. It is a race to the bottom where the top earners will eventually have so much everyone else will no longer be able to spend to support their businesses, soon after that comes economic collapse.

Fortunately for America, full economic collapse is unlikely, as the government would step in at 11:59 and impose changes to save the country. But this same model has played out in other countries from Eastern Europe, South East Asia, and of course Nigger Africa.

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That's one cause of inflation, the other cause is what I mention here You can cause inflation by raising the min wage, most of the companies that exist who need to pay staff and who suddenly can't make a profit with new higher minimum wage, simply put up their prices, and when everyone in the entire supply chain for a country is doing this the cost of living goes up.

There's 2 ways you can cause inflation, you can increase the money supply which means there's more dollars epresenting the same amount of total value. Meaning each dollar is worth less after the printing.

Or you can leave the total number of dollars the same but force up the cost of living which means the spending power of the dollar decreases (you can buy less for the same number of dollars) and the effect is the same, the effect is that the purchasing power of the dollar is less.

And who does that effect the most? The people closest to the poverty line. Rich people don't care that the cost of milk and bread has gone up 10% but poor people sure do.

It's basic economics you can't force someone to have more value, value is decided by the market and if you introduce force like min wage the market just corrects for it. The exact same thing is true of progressive tax systems, it leads to progressive wages and all the NEETs complaining that min wage people only get a few cents more per hour but their CEO just got a 10 grand raise.

the purpose of society isn't to "satisfy the market", its to grow food, attain water and establish and increase average living standards for the majority over time

the solution is to raise the bottom wages to acceptable levels and then reduce corporate profits/stockholder profits/ and wealth executives profits to balance it out
>its the rich, stupid

wages have been flat since the 60's while inflation has skyrocketed and all the profit increases which used to be shared equally with labor have gone to the upper executives

we CAN give a bigger piece of the pie to those on the lower end while taking away from those on the higher end and restore the balance that has been lost since the 60's

of course that also requires shutting immigration and less international trade which is more complicated to be fair

Labour pool is too large.

The only way wages can be raised in the US is by stopping the flow of cheap slave labor from south America.

Smaller bussinesses would only hire alijandro under the table.

I run a family bussiness and if i had to give all my employees 25% wage jncreases it would put me out of business bro. Half my customers come to my repair shop because im 40 percent cheaper than the dealership. If my mechanics made more i would have to raise the labor rate immediately and it would most certainly kill my families leagacy.

>we're just fine here in Australia
I kinda agree in that this housing bubble is mostly gonna fuck over boomers and chinks

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The real problem is most of the money is in the hands of a very few people who hoard money. That money will never move, dead economy.

1. Increasing MW will cause inflation and accelerate automation while forcing small businesses to lay off workers. Which means $0/hr.
2. Jobs that can’t be easily automated, can be easily filled by illegals being carted into the country by the tens of thousands by democrats.

In 1996 Ralph Nader sent a letter to the CEOs of the top 100 companies in America asking them begin every board meeting with the pledge of allegiance. Many people have been taught to scoff at the pledge of allegiance in America as some backwards silly notion, that only dumb rednecks stand with their hand over their heart for the flag, but it has a deep meaning of belonging, of being American, of tying us together and bonding us with a national spirit.

All but one company refused Ralph Nader's message. The general reply was that "we are not American, we are international." The one company that agreed was Federated Department Stores.

The problem with American companies is they don't give a damn about Americans. The only solution for the lower, middle, and upper class to survive in this globohomo world is if your government and companies actually have a nationalist bond that ties everyone together. They want us to have this debate about the minimum wage so that we don't see the actual problem of the disappearing of real jobs in America. Working at Mcdonalds is not a real job, a grown adult should not be flipping burgers to make ends meet. They should be working a real job, but those are disappearing. So at it is, minimum wage workers don't have any incentive to raise pay, because they know there is largely nothing else out there for workers to consider.

Hhhmmm....it's telling that you ignored the last part of his argument. Fucking dishonest shitbag.

Then watch as they bitch about "Increased unemployment! We need socialized welfare! UBI! Anything!" and push more socialist dribble into our lives.

>thinking companies will allow their profit margins to drop
>thinking management will take a pay cut out of the goodness of their hearts and allow investors to lose money because some tards think bagging groceries should pay for a house

I remember being 16

Things have been too stagnant its time to accelerate.

Because there are plenty of jobs in the US. Americans are literally too stupid to find them

I used to work at a call center that specifically tried to hire and cater to low socioeconomic people. The company's contract was based in a rural county. There were bare bones requirements for hire. The job itself was literally talking and reading

But ask a blue collar guy who did construction one time to work there

>Nope. I do construction. Too bad private companies can't hire me because spics and the government can't afford to build anything because niggers on welfare
>What? It's just a job. It's just money. Also you're on welfare now
>Yep. Just like that coon Obama wants
>I mean do you care about feeding your kids?
>Why should I? They won't get into college because affirmative action
Etc

This is an exaggeration. But LOTS of ignorant people really think on this line. This website is misleading because even the retards here are semi-literate and well-read. Real people can be blindingly stupid. They literally lose their home, their car, their job, their health. And they unironically think it's white racism. Or "the system." Or liberals on computers. Or immigrants on computers. Nevermind all the white people who are actually succeeding

You entire argument is based on emotion. Lrn2Logic, faggot, or stop spilling your fee fees all over the rest of us that have the capacity for reason.

Because the argument is begging for scraps. We sell out the agency of our labor on the alter of diversity signaling or wanting idioting immigrants to sodomize. Pic related. Business not paying wages adjusted for inflation? Where only the vested interest reap the benefits.
>All nonsense questions are unanswerable. How many hours are in a mile? Is yellow square or round?

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>Business models which require cheap labor are fundamentally bad for the economy at large.
This guy gets it

>put in politicians who will stand up for regular people and are actually loyal to the country rather then to international capitalists and capitalism
>tell the businesses they can accept lower profits and lesser pays for their executives or they'll be shut down and banned from selling their profits in the country
>problem solved
>even a 16 year old could figure this out

>banned from selling their products*

The market is society. All the market is, is an aggregation of the value that people put on goods and services. You can personally value your time at 15 bux and hour but if all the employers value it around 10 bux and hour then you're only going to get 10 bux an hour.

The solution you suggest has the same problem that I've already mentioned. When you mess with the money people are paid you mess with the incentive structure. The reason that wealthy people invest in businesses is to get a good return on their investment, if you simply deny them that through policy they'll stop investing in businesses. And the sum total of wealth in the system starts to rapidly decline. What you (and communists) don't seem to understand is that the average living standard has MASSIVELY increased for capitalist societies over the last few hundred years. You're completely consumed with focusing on relative wealth of rich and poor that you've forgotten that the absolute wealth increase for everyone across the board has risen substantially.

The only evidence trotted out for this is the same old "flat wages blah blah", but look...wages have stagnated because western countries have spent the last 50+ years forcing employers to give employees every benefit under the sun. Minimum wage, forced pension contributions, forced materinity/paternity, forced sick days, forced healthcare contributions, forced diversity quotas and loads and loads of other shit as well as increases in taxes on businesses to fund other social programs.

So do the honest thing and don't look at just wages because businesses don't just pay you in wages they pay you by subsidizing massive amounts of GIMMIEDATS and the more gimmies you demand through law the less business will pay you in wages, it's really fucking basic. Again it just comes down to, let's force businesses to give you more than you're worth. It's never worked, it doesn't work now and it will never work.

The main problem is it can indirectly increase the cost of goods (through higher labor costs).

I sometimes think the correct way to solve poverty is finding ways to decrease the cost of living expenses, mainly housing (because it's doubled in 10 years).

>Half my customers come to my repair shop because im 40 percent cheaper than the dealership.
Have you tried gradually raising prices?

I disagree.
labor in America had been purposely exploited and fucked since the 70's and onwards through purposeful policies that were not necessary.
I don't really know what the solution is but what we have now is pretty garbage, selfish and predatory.
We can do better.

We burgers love our inflation and lost power buying. Soon we can all be serfs.

Sounds like the same faggot who says people don’t need more wages or vestment, because they have smartphone technology. What do they need more money or currency for when they are walking around with y*utub*, tw*tt*r and pornography, and EDM? What else does the harvestable subhuman need in life? Bongs have no soul anymore.