Any libertarians on right now?

and it's "circuitous"

Libertarianism is dead. Just go full republican with libertarian ideals and vote libertarian when your choices are awful—see 2008 and 2012 US elections.

Classical liberal with libertarian sympathies.

The problem is banking. Amazon is funded by people with unlimited pockets, because credit creation is today unlimited.
Remove the government support for banks, make them eat their own losses and the system works.
I dont believe this will happen though. We have to go through tyranny first. Because people.

Amazon lost money with their store because they invested heavily in developing it for the long term rather than cashing out for quick profits. They were able to take their computer operations and create a very profitable business in cloud computing services. Until recently, they have done everything right and are now at the point in their business lifecycle where they can begin to realize profits. We need more companies to act like Amazon has.

>the market not doing what I want is a market """failure"""
Do you apply this same standard to other natural forces, like gravity?

>I had a doubt on how libertarianism would solve something like Amazon's current behavior.
you know amazon is only worth money because citizens library records cannot be viewed without a signed warrant

>That's stealing from your own nations people.
Henry George land tax based system prevents this

So would eliminating the income tax and turning tariffs up to 11, the way the US functioned for most of its history.

This is the right answer. If organizations had to operate on a financial system that is 100% based on reality instead of trust/speculation/debt backed currency then it's more difficult for a monopoly like amazon to form. The other issue is tax loopholes. Large organizations can skirt tax laws applicable to plebs who can't afford high prices lawyers. Hence - a flat unavoidable tax such as a consumption based sales tax would also help prevent this scenario.

>The problem is banking.
specifically usury which is unnatural

all creatures lend and borrow, only humans pay back more than they borrow

>The amazon store ran at a loss for over 10 years.
they still haven't shown a profit but thats ok, MTV showed their first profit 5 years ago

>This breaks the behavior of the free market.
you are an idiot troll, go away.

we really need to look at Henry George's economic policies, he said the only tax should be a land tax based on use, the more sales and transfers that occur on your land the higher the tax rate, using this type of system would basically make the land owner where the trading floor exists responsible for the entire tax burden and that makes perfect sense to me

how will you compete selling gold if you don't own the mine
>means of production
How will you compete with SHELL / BP in selling oil?
Late stage capitalism as we know it went bankrupt in 2008 and was saved by muh socialism aka tax payers money and the state stepping in.
Libertarians are subape tier.

>turning tariffs up to 11,
so long as the economic improvements are responsible, Lincoln killing civilians to reimplement Hamiltons policies was a travesty even if I wish Trump was more like Lincoln when it comes to arresting newspaper editors

over here in german we have something similar: if you buy a house and sell it right afterwards you have to pay a surplus of 'speculation tax', same goes for stocks. Is that what you even mean, does something like that exist in the US or is germany superior once again?

>specifically usury which is unnatural
>all creatures lend and borrow, only humans pay back more than they borrow
so is shitting in a toilet
all creatures shit, only humans shit in a toilet

You could also make the argument that money now is worth more than money later, because investing; but "usury is sin" is religious dogma and thus pointless to argue against.

>wiping with bare hands is natural
this

based hans

No animal wipes though.

>Is that what you even mean,
no but the spirit and intention is the same, Henry George proclaimed the only way to tax morally was a tax based on land use, so the higher the usage of your land the more popular it is therefore the higher your tax rate on that land should be, this type of tax discourages big cities to grow and makes running a commodities exchange or stock market floor a real hassle as those industries would immediately be responsible for the entire tax burden

Warren Buffet agreed with this approach typically showing disdain for speculation he advocated that it would be perfectly fine if you were only allowed 5 stock transactions during your entire lifetime

>but "usury is sin" is religious dogma and thus pointless to argue against.
not really, usury can be viewed scientifically as an aberration but let's stick to the spiritual angle for now

the jewish faith presents a thesis, that usury is normal and should be allowed

the muslim faith presents the antithesis that usury is an abomination that should be discouraged and even punished by death

the catholic faith presents the synthesis that usury is acceptable but only if a specific core group is in control of it

usury is an unnatural phenomenon that leads to slavery, you have usury and you get slavery no way around that, although slavery can and does exist without usury, it is far easier to enslave an entire people with a scant force with usury than without

usury is stolen labor, stolen land, every cent paid back more than was borrowed is theft

Dogs wipe their buttholes on the ground, it’s to express their anal glands but imagine it feels good for them to scrape off excess poop too

We need to Monkey Wrench Gang Big Tech, they’re out of fuckin control

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>A well informed consumer will be able to choose the best option
Ah, that must be why McDonalds makes 10s of billions selling literal poison food to people, because everyone knows the consumer is the absolute paragon of reason and logic.

I don't care about reliogious dogma because I am not religious.
Scientifically explain to me how usury is unnatural.
>usury is stolen labor, stolen land, every cent paid back more than was borrowed is theft
Not if it's the result of a voluntary contract.

Dude, you have to switch to propretarianism. It corrects the flaws of libertarianism with the addition of anti-parasitic laws. Small Amazon=ok, large Amazon=parasitic entity.

It's better than the shit you will get at a kebab shop. People have different preferences and thus regard different things as the best for them.
Collectivism vs. Individualism.

How are there so many delusional fuckwits with no idea we live on planet Ancapistan. Plus, Bezos is a long time Objectivist. Duh. He's been boycotted by the left and the right, repeatedly.

Y'all totally fuckin' blind to the reality that rules you.

I could have, (and maybe I should have) but it would be wasted on a board that thinks a picture of a frog is an argument.

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A Döner is probably more healthy than the shit you find at Mcdonalds, at least the ingedrients are fresh like yoghurt, salad etc. Regardless, it's true, people have preferences, they will disregard logic and reason for their irrational desires. This is why treating the consumer a constant in this equation of market behaviour is retarded, a consumer is a variable, not a constant. They can be influenced heavily through marketing. In the end the companies with the best marketing wins, not necessarily the ones with the best product.

In a society that is closer to a free market, Amazon would not be able to depend on private pensions or index funds (institutional investors) to prop up its share prices. Smaller non-national communities would also tax Amazon more aggressively for the privilege of setting up shop.

If you break it down enough, any state of the world could be regarded as ancap.
Absolute monarchy? The land is one guys property and we are all his slaves.
Democracy? A group of property owners rules over us slaves. They hold regular theatre events to keep us entertained.
Communism? Same as above but no theatre events.
All perfectly ancap.

No company sending firing squads to your house if you dont use them though.
No company giving you free money and enabling you to be a leech on the rest of us though.
People being lemmings is a given in any system.

gg user, I'll make a better version of that sometime

Free market provides cheap goods that are ,ade as efficiently as possible, it doesn't and isn't supposed to guarantee the existence of millions of small businesses.
>Once this decline has reached a certain point, the market will come up with competitors again.
this.

>A Döner is probably more healthy than the shit you find at Mcdonalds
I highly doubt that to be honest. McDonals has a lot more hygiene regulations & quality control than your avergae Mehmet at the corner.

Lemmings need a leader to guide them. Giving them freedom for freedom's sake results in anarchy and chaos.

An ancap society can't fight it. Simple as.

I would say there needs to be a balance between freedom and law. I think the periods of european high culture (ancient greece and renaissance) were periods in which we generally let people have some more leeway, and more importantly, didn't have big centralised power.

Sure it can, by simply choosing as individuals not to do business with Amazon if you disagree with their business model or ethics.

>Not if it's the result of a voluntary contract.
you cannot voluntarily agree to be a slave, it is fraud

if a natural system allows for blockage of energy that energy goes unused or is misused, you can see aberrations in natural development as result, such as inbreeding in wealthy families, it is an unnatural practice that hinders evolution and for what? so a few rich guys can sit around getting guaranteed blowjobs in a big house

what you pay to have this practice harms the society and species as a whole, so it should be discouraged to promote growth of the species, we would be colonizing space already without this practice, which shows you that these people don't really worship money although they claim to, they worship themselves, their own egos, which harms everyone including them

It's hard to recognize the big corporations as being legitimate capitalist companies. It's bizarre what is going on today, for instance FED policies of artificially low interest rates, QE, and Stock buybacks severely distort the economy in which people pile into mal-investments like TESLA, companies that don't even turn a profit. There is no yield outside the stock market, in some sense it is now too big to fail. Lord only knows if the PPT and central banks are directly buying up stocks to prop it up, we don't know because they are un-audited and can buy shares with conjured up money.

>It's hard to recognize the big corporations as being legitimate capitalist companies.
they're not, they're part of a foreign economic army dedicated to destroying our nation

>you cannot voluntarily agree to be a slave
Moving the goalposts.
>if a natural system allows for blockage of energy that energy goes unused or is misused, you can see aberrations in natural development as result
Holistic shit that doesn't mean anything. Energy is never "blocked", first law of thermodynamics.

Fpbp, meme ideology for the neets

Well yea, I would agree with that. We have a combination of Government, Corporations, Central banks working together to drive out small businesses and to prop up large Corporations like Amazon, Google, and FAANG stocks which I guess symbolizes fangs on a snake. They have surveillance attached to their products and it's pretty spooky the direction we are heading.

Do you think the ancap view of having competing banks with competing currencies is a good solution or a meme one?
From what I've gathered there was a period in the US (1800s, lasted a few decades) in which every person, physical or juridical, could print their own currency. Every State had their own. In the end the Central Bank chimed in and made them all illegal.

>Once this decline has reached a certain point, the market will come up with competitors again.
Not if the government, on behalf of the monopoly’s lobbyists, close the market to new competitors. This is how the American system currently operates.

>Energy is never "blocked
explain the size of these Swiss bank accounts then please, do you agree with that? you can say you do I won't hate you

>Well yea, I would agree with that.
read Anton Chaitkin's treason in America

The government issuing currency is more to blame for that than interest.
They just saw what a nice hustle the railway companies had going and wanted in on the action. And by "in on the action" I mean completely monopolize that hustle.
If you accept scrip as payment you are as dumb as a rock and deserve everything you have coming your way.

Ye, it's the same here, it's kind of the world system at this point. Lobbying is just legal corruption.

What the hell is Amazon?

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>a regulated nation
When the said nation is a corporate oligarchy, what does it matter. For example, government is supposed to protect its citizens when the citizens can't or won't. When a government infiltrated by ex-CEOs and corporate liaisons begins worldwide military interdictions for the sake of propping up contract manufacturers, the care of citizens is long gone. Using $1.5 million dollars worth of citizen taxes to blow up a destitute brown skin halfway around the globe has no benefit to me or you.

Consumers and vendors are getting tired of Amazon, and the surviving retailers are adjusting to keep up with them and offer better services. I work with amazon every day and they have huge problems they refuse to do anything about that are going to fuck them up real soon. The biggest thing recently was saying theyre gonna bump up prime to 1 day shipping when nearly everyone is saying that theyre failing to keep up with 2 day shipping by a long shot. Mix that eith how horribly they treat their vendors and employees and their shit customer service, i imagine the big retailers will have enough of an online presence to really put amazon back down in the nedt 5 years

>The government issuing currency is more to blame for that than interest.
it's the same scam, why should anyone get more than what they actually worked for?

Lynch Lord Bezos

what amazon is doing is entirely illegal according to the 1974 landmark privacy act, don't go looking in a law book for that unless it was printing in 1974-5 you won't find it

I dont see a problem, amazon is doing good stuff

Oh i have no doubt, they operate under their own rules

I do believe it's even more nefarious than that. The corporate oligarchy are now moving into the direction where they are directly aligned with Government (Facebook, Amazon, Google for example) for total control and to establish a complete technological police state. Destroy small businesses and to project the empire globally. Profits are a motivation but they are also implementing the elite's agenda..in more ways than one , see degeneracy/support for regime change on social media/ media, shadow banning people who advocate ending the central banks etc..all of this can be tied back to the "lenders of last resort" which are the central banks.

Because I take a loan voluntarily, I do not take fiat money voluntarily, I am forced to accept it. That's where the difference is. In any transaction both sides get more than they worked for, otherwise there would be no transaction in the first place. Comparative advantage.

I don't like this argument though because most people are way to stupid to understand how these mechanisms of finance work and are unable to adequately protect themselves from them

fiat currency and lending at interest go hand in hand, you won't find one without the other and even though we blame jews these technologies were invented in China

i remember when i had a business

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They're not technologies and they don't always go hand in hand. You can have usury without fiat currency, but not the other way around. This is because fiat money is essentially involuntary usury. Also most people are too retarded for a lot of shit, this is why humans organize along a hierarchy.

What happened?

Only thing left to do is burn everything to the ground.

>You can have usury without fiat currency,
fiat currency and lending at interest are both technological policies like writing was invented by bean counters so they could show the heir of the farm that his parents owed money, thats a bad idea just make that bean counter grow his own grain

>some of which are not profitable
Some divisions or product lines are not profitable in every business. Hell, most start-up (where investors throw millions and billions of money) also aren't profitable. Did you get your answer yet?
Ultimately it's investors/shareholders that make the decision. Shareholders are often willing to invest capital towards building market share while developing efficiencies, but there is a point where they want to see a return on those investments or the pulling of the plug.
If what you wrote was true (it isn't) shareholders would be demanding a split of AWS off of Amazon. That day might still come, since AWS has phenomenal growth (and thus great valuation) compared to the rest of the business units.

I misspent a few funds, went a tiny bit insane, and eventually had my business taken from me
h-honk

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>your history of posting on Jow Forums is discovered
>now barred from doing buisness
free market! Totally don't need a governing body ensuring ((((((social justice)))))) doesn't decide who is allowed to do business.

Amazon continues to exist through protectionism laws even if it doesn't effect it directly. The entire delivery system is dependent on USPS.
If USPS falls so does amazon. Fed Ex and UPS and DHL would assrape amazon through premiums if it had to deal with the brunt of the workload.
This realization is why Amazon has been pushing towards automating cargo transport.

If you just have the bean counter growing his own grain you never invent electricity. More efficieny in work sharing is desirable.

>the virtues of the free market is that it allows for anyone to develop production methods, innovate, reduce costs, etc and that benefits the consumer.
what happens when someone comes up with or is dealing in something that very few firms can operate in? what happens if one firm comes up with teleport technology? they become a monopoly and nobody else is able to figure out how to do it. It's a monopoly. public utilities, mining, oil drilling, technology these are markets that lead naturally to monopoly.
>A well informed consumer will be able to choose the best option.
most consumers are not well informed so it really is kinda dumb to assume this will ever really be the case, this is really an idealized version of the world to inform a theorem. And it is precisely the fact that most consumers will never really be informed that the free market or even any market fails, because people are not fully informed they only have as much information available at any given time and that is IF they choose to even pay attention to it.
The free market is limited from coming into actuality by three small little words. Barriers to entry.

>saved

no just delayed

>this type of tax discourages big cities to grow
why is it a good thing to discourage efficient land use?

and that doesn't diminish speculation at all.... you having low taxes on unused lands encourages speculators to buy up land (that they believe they will be able to resell at a profit in future) and not develop it.

>2008
>capitalism
Wew pull that shit out of your head. Free central banks moneys, bailouts, heavy regulations - how that's capitalism?

>Free central banks moneys, bailouts, heavy regulations - how that's capitalism?
read Adam Smith faggot.

>Read faggot that promotes welfare state and labor theory of value