Will pol ever be libertarian again?

>State has monopoly on finance and currency instead of private central banks + the way the financial system is structured due to the ideology and goals of the state, which are very different from Marxism
>Businesses have owners who are subjugated to the national interest
>strong class collaboration instead of class dissociation (Capitalism) and class struggle (Marxism)
>aggregation of worker, entrepreneur and state interests through unified bodies (see German Labour Front as an example)
Just to name a few. These things are distinctively different from both Capitalism and Marxism.

When it comes to economics, I think Germany did it much better than Italy.

>Getting rid of the state, central banks, kill big corporation with competition?
How this is jewish?

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How does it changes the fact that it was a neanderthal rat? You're hell of a good goy to genuinely trust something kike tries to teach you.

I've been trying to read "Theory of Money and Credit" , can't get through it...

>again
what you should be asking will Jow Forums be meme again

How do you expect to prevent the state from propping up central banks? And i need further explanation on how your other points are actually achieveable.
Well it certainly wouldnt make sense for a zionist jew to tell me why i should hate israel. And lets not forget hoppe who was rothbards closest pupil who names the jews and is against homosexuality. What sort of deviant kike would teach his prodigy to go against the kikes interests?

>Goy has to abandon any identity behind them and cannibalize their own kin on free market.
>Meanwhile jewish diaspora has a laugh about gullible goy doing this and maintains their own identity as society within society that lives by ideology of ultra-tribalism, as they always do
>Gradually infests various sectors of economy through nepotism, it is very easy because goyim are completely atomized
>Once their power reaches critical mass, they are free to do whatever they want, and goyim can't do shit about it, because they're, again, completely atomized
>Even if they have no endgame, they will always come out on top and become ruling caste, because backing up from wast network of diaspora is extremely good in competition against dumb goy who don't have it
It's like you have zero understanding of JQ. Never trust anything kike says, only watch what kike does for himself.

The middle of the road leads to socialism - Mises wrote it small but really good book
Read it

No.

Thats a big brained post

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>individual freedom will enrich the kikes
You ain’t fooling nobody faggot

Maybe when the libertarian party isn’t filled with fucking fake hacks. What the fuck happened in 16?

>third position
>capitalism where the state can legally seize your property for whatever reason, most commonly for war purposes or going against the party
epic

>kill big corporations with competition
kek they gonna magically make it cheaper to start an expensive business? free market is gonna suddenly make it cheaper to start a giant tech company capable of scooping up the entire market of fresh engineering students like google does? maybe big corporations exist because they exist in segments that only a few can compete in. and so there are only a few. competition can not make it any less harder for everyone to start a business and start competing in those segments. In order to have that competition you have to make it easier for people to start the business which is easier said than done. not everyone can start a mining company, and reoving government intervention and letting people innovate is not going to change that. big monopoly type business like google, amazon or even the robber barons start because people are not able to compete and so there isn't an ability for the market to create competition.

"Will X ever be Y again"

Nothing ever stays the same, user. Everything changes. Accept this or remain miserable and indignant.

No. Shit ideology

I’m a libertarian under all these layers of Nazi. Like fascism can’t work as a political system, it’s retarded. Anyone who says otherwise is a fag

If you want more specific ideas on the actual realization of those theories, read up on Germany's economy in the 30s.

There is a difference between a capitalist and a fascist dictatorship. Germany was not capitalist. See

Israel ends in 2019!

>Well it certainly wouldnt make sense for a zionist jew
You don't know shit if "zionist" or "not zionist" is something defining for you. Lurk more. You'll even understand why Jow Forums abandoned this ideology.
>hoppe
Another matter entirely. Advocates against democracy and for monarchy and discrimination, this shit would have made all those rats with big snouts and sloped skulls who shaped original libertarianism screech so loud your ears will hurt. Their right proper followers still hate him today as far as I heard. He's example of how something goy would have made with genuine intent is different from kike subversion that is original libertarianism.

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Libertarians are almost exclusively white men with a 1% representing minorities which is the way it should be! This is reality! This is nature! Libertarianism is white supremacy. Bigger government will always lead the road where we are going to right now, the complete destruction of competition and nature to synthetically bring savages up and mix them to lower iq's to have even more control!

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You don't have a freedom, and will never have a freedom. Try to be free from necessity to feed yourself, or defend yourself, let's see what happens.
Only someone who have been duped by (((enlightenment))) into its false framework can even entertain possibility of "personal freedom".

You can associate with whoever you want and discriminate the jews. How this make easier for evil jews to destroy society than now?
>kek they gonna magically make it cheaper to start an expensive business?
Of course not. Why should super competitive high tech sector contain unlimited amount of players? It's not even a problem desu.

oy vey your doing freedom of speech and personal freedom wrong! your'e supposed to agree with me that it's good for me I mean us and we need more!
look at how america used to be and how it is now. this means we need to reset and do it again this time it wont end up with the same result trust me its the free market and freedom.

>look at how america used to be
War golem of Zion constructed by freemasons out of Europeans with erased identity.
>and how it is now
It's still war golem of Zion. Whatever changed was intended by its creators from the beginning to make it even stronger in enforcing what Diaspora needs.

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what if big companies exist because it is economically efficient and is what the market needs right now? would you be upset? would you turn your back on economics?

I'm alt-right, but always fall back towards my libertarian principles as I did before I went down the pipeline in 2013.

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Libertarianism is degeneracy

pol will be propertarian

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Its true tho
>no less so than communism.
Communism was entirely wrong
Libertarianism was largely correct but missed a number of points

I'm absolutely okay with this, companies should grow to the point of maximal efficiency. Maybe it sector is efficient right now, who knows if market distorted by government.

>incremental suppression

>distinctively different from both Capitalism
This is how it should be, but it is literally just a form of capitalism

Libertarianism leads to societal decay and degeneracy. Authoritarianism is the only a wa a nation can sustain itself. the question is what kind of authoritarianism? Nazism? Natcap? Fascism?

You have no clue

Ture bu what im saing is this.
america is held up as an ideal by libertarians as being more like how america should be. with a small government with the market being able to do what it does best. Yet however claim two opposing views. the A. the market works without conscious effort needing to be exerted because it will naturally lead to efficient results on it's own through people making rational choices they are allowed to make with their freedom and that B. america has gotten away from that because people have made the poor choice to move away from that from irrational choices. This sort of silly notion that being selfish is what makes cooperation work in the free market but at the same time being selfish is what ruined the free market and got rid of it.
these are normative economics that ignore newer economic developments because "newer economics" are wrong and bad. and that somehow the "rational self interest" and "sucking the tit of a handout government" are at odds with each other.

austrolibertarianism and Hoppe >>>>>> NatSoc/Fascism >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>american "libertarianism"

shit foriegn policy.

> muh libertarianism
> posts on board maintained by volunteers

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Most of the libertarians turned into literal fascists.

Although some of us are still here. I feel like fascism might be needed to save the west, but philosophically I am def a libertarian.

>Libertarianism leads to societal decay and degeneracy.
You can make a case that under libertarianism degeneracy can be rejected by local private communities, but the fact is, pure libertarianism is impossible, so it is quite stupid to discuss where it leads to, but it is way closer to "possible" than communism.

There is also no such thing as NatCap, because NatSoc was a capitalist system already.

Fascism = capitalism + capitalist should be beneficial to the community, so it makes sense

Every libertarian should read Cato institute's position on immigration to stop being one

I'm starting to feel this way. We go through a period of fascism to clean things up a bit then institute libertarian policies. I don't really see a problem, unless the fascists put up a fight.

I just want to be left the fuck alone.

Ok, goy. Been listening to c-dizzy for 5 years now.

>degeneracy can be rejected by local private communities
What makes you think people would reject it? As we can see in today's society, companies actively promote degeneracy and people embrace it, even without any state influence.

Fascism= Monarchy - Dynasty

>NatSoc was a capitalist system already.
only partially, The state still controlled the industry. Which is what makes Natcap different. And then there's fascism, which I suppose is a middle ground.

cato doesnt represent libertarianism, cockhead. READ HOPPE.

That's a picture of a jew. Answers your own question.

you are rejecting it rn. plenty of people reject it. the reason why less people are rejecting than usually is bc parents are out working and the kids are being indoctrinated in public school, bc parents cant afford to stay at home and its illegal to home school. both of those things are caused by state intervention. get rid of those things and society naturally moves towards self preservation bc then theres not a safety net anymore and youre actually held responsible for being a worthless hedonist retard. people like that dont survive in the real world.

>america is held up as an ideal by libertarians as being more like how america should be. with a small government with the market being able to do what it does best.
Its initial state is exactly what allowed it to be infested. They made it that way for the purpose to be eventually infested. People like Andrew Jackson fought it and even held it back, but in long term it was no use because system itself allows particular kind of takeover. Even few more little thing like swapping "freedom of religion" to "no kikes on this clay" would have helped, but no, freedums are more important, well, here's result.
You can make your idealized libertarian government if you have idealized world where all the hostile nations and tribes are dead and you're surrounded by benevolent men of your own kind whom you can trust to build free society together. It doesn't works that way in reality, in reality this shit is full of holes and you can bet all your money on countless enemies you have making great use of those holes.

Fascism is a flexible term, the progression goes like this

(socialism) Nazism------Fascism------Natcap (Capitalism)

>The state still controlled the industry.
It was literally private. Who was Krupp for ex?

Well, I don't advocate for libertarianism, I don't think that they will reject it completely but given the freedom to choose, normal people will choose to associate with normal people

It's still proto feudalism communism all the same

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then this leads to a contradiction easily explained by newer economics. economic efficiency is not equity. this naturally leads to a very simple observation what is economically good is not always what is good for society.
It makes perfect sense for a mining company to be funded by an ultra rich person who can start a mine when nobody else could. this means there is a mine! but due to he difficult nature of starting a mine a condition that lead to there being only one. there is no competition. and the mine owner can now produce any amount and charge any price he wants. and in a society that would be better off with lets say coal that is being mined being at odds with the nature of the mine owner. which is to make money. Hence the final idea of nationalizing certain things. Ultimately the economy should be serving us, and economics should be used to help us achieve this. some of the basic principles that efficiency is good for us is really at odds with what economics is about. It's an opinion about economics not actual economics.
as for the mine owner should he be nationalized? this is a debate that begins to ignore the very beginning of the mine. which is that the market being left to it's own devices has failed the people. And to say they should just be screwed until eventually someone else can start another mine again ignores the premise that the market is good and government intervention is always bad.
and in fact the government intervention is an option the holds the potential to lead to economic and technological development leading to potentially more mines. and in fact more money for all.

You don’t need to own a company to control it.

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>free from necessity
Nigger the earth doesn't own anyone anything
You think the state is the ones who feed people
Reported for underage
Downthehallandtotheleft.jpg

there was plenty of juspositivist enlightenment bullshit in the foundation of america. the govt. fucking handled immigration. that isnt libertarian. libertarian = your community decides who gets to enter your community, not some jew in NY

only partially private, the nazi reich still essentially controlled it all

?

I'm sorry that you didn't even bothered to understand what I mean and yet it rustled you so bad.

Why? Maybe its Hoppe who is an outlier
Depends what do you mean by control, it was private compared to the USSR

And this is where fascism stands over libertarianism. you shouldn't lose sight over the end goal for preference over the tools to achieve the end goal. freedom is just a tool to achieve a good life. It is not a sacred goat that without it we are screwed. only an idiot would think like this *cough* stefan molyneux *cough*
humans have lived happy good lives well before the idea of magna carta and constitutions existed. these were just developed as new ways to achieve a good life.
this is why fascism has no set economics it's solution is real actual economics which is figuring out what makes us better off which does not fit in a set box of solutions you can always rely on.

>Depends what do you mean by control
Nazi german had a free market economy, whilst the Reich still owned leading industry and means of production.
>it was private compared to the USSR
lmao everything is private compared to the USSR

Well, the main problem as I see it is that even if someone exercises his freedom from a libertarian perspective, he can harm the third party, and libertarianism does not account for it. Like you can import immigrants and make them work on your factory, but it will harm local communities. Same with porn.

>Reich still owned leading industry and means of production
Not "owned", more like the state was ordering private individuals to do certain actions, similar to how you cannot break traffic laws

>Libertarianism was largely correct but missed a number of points
Name a successful libertarian country

Basically whole Anglosphere

A certain central European state in the 1930s had great ideas, but there were major economic issues, like people buying whole trucks just to get tires because of the limitations by the government on manufacturing tires alone. National socialism is great for a number of reasons, but heres why NatKap is a more modern and realistic alternative:

Capitalism is the best economic system, but not the best societal system. Unfortunately, any state that wants to stay strong against foreign influence must be economically strong to have the tools to do so. Thus, Capitalism must be subservient to nationalism, but rejecting it's uses entirely is foolish. China's weird fusion if state capitalism and quasi-fascism has a lot of good ideas to take from. Of course, it's communistic legacy resulted in poor property rights that created a culture that destroyed it's ecology. Through this method, Capitalism is not specifically anti-nation or globalist by nature. An isolationist, Traditionalist nation that values the community equally as the individual could benefit from a regulated, internalized, capitalist economy, perhaps even better than Hitler's semi-free market, semi-state run economic model.

They always are.

They don't follow libertarian figures or identify with it, but in general they are more pro freedom than against it.

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Hahaha

well from what I understand libertarians flat out reject utilitarian ethics. so the greatest good fro the greatest number is just bullshit to them.
so harming your neighbor or fucking up a market in that way is still ethical to them because it's your life which take precedence over others. which by it's nature is bland to externalities. this is what happens when you completely disregard keynes which by it's nature is disregarding the basis for macro economics. not to mention that utilitarianism is basically how we right and come up with our laws or at least use to until the far left went way off the deep end.
so self sacrifice makes no sense to them and this is a grave error because this goes against any mass psychology and just on and on you can point out where they go wrong and why it doesnt work out like they think it does.

Libertarianism is a joke.

depends on the freedoms. Fundamental rights such as freedom of speech and ability to be armed are essential, but freedom to kill unborn babies and the freedom to have kids dress up in drag is not. An Authoritarian state based off of inalienable fundamentalist rights would be the most preferable, stomping out degeneracy whilst keeping the population relatively oppressed.

agreed

I still love the idealism of classical liberalism, and it remains close to my heart. But the ideology just cannot withstand the forces of (((tribalism))).

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Depends what you mean by utilitarian ethics, it just must be the case that your actions do not non-reciprocally harm the third party

relatively unoppresed****

Fascism can be molded into practically anything the nation/head of state wants to mold. Don’t blame fascism for the fact your nation fucked up.

they only exist because of government intervention. as far as people starting their own business, your thinking people have to jump right away in to these major companies, they start local, then if people like their products they continue to grow

Can you recommend and good books about Germany's economy in the 1930's ?

Lolbertarians we laughed out of Jow Forums simply because their ideas could not stand skepticism

The only freedom you gonna get is to embrace highly addictive behaviours and freedom of high ranked people to evade responsabilities to their subordinates.

The central principle that corporations should act in the best interest of the people in the name of the greater good. Not in the interests of Schlomo-Goldstein Investments Lmtd and not in the interests of 'He got a bigger piece of cake than me REEEEE!"

Well, there were issues, but maybe it was it necessary given militarisation.
There is no such thing as fundamental rights
Hitler's economy was capitalist tho.
And China is still largely socialist, that's why they are poorer than Mexico per capita.
What you describe is capitalism, just not liberal capitalism.

(((they))) dont want libertarianism because they want more control. Explain to me like im 5 years old why libertarianism is bad, and dont bring up anything about any other political ideologies. plain and simple, just explain the cons.