"If God real why bad thing happen?" - Epicurus

But why does God allow evil to exist if its supposably omnibenevolent?

That's how people in the middle east look TODAY, after centuries of mongrelization. The pic above is actually the earliest pic of Jesus, ordered by Tiberius. Even today, the regions of Syria in which Jesus was active are relatively light skinned, with green eyes being a common sight.

Please read my post in full and ask your questions. which will be the first reply where you are the second.

>earliest pic of Jesus, ordered by Tiberius

that's my point he was whitewashed

Nearly half the people in the levant region of the Middle-East are white, if not more. Whiter than most americans mutts even.

plz. Whiteness was not even a concept back then. The pic we are talking about was a depiction by someone who had actually seen Jesus, it was ordered by Tiberius shortly after his crucifixion. Others from that time period described jesus as having gold-brown hair and beard, tall stature and extraordinarily graceful presence.

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That picture really is the earliest depiction of Christ user, it was even made by a non-christian. You're approaching history from a 21st century liberal mindset.

Why the fuck would you ask the guy who saw the literal fuckin' Lord to only draw half his face smdh

This is a reprinting of a letter from Pontius Pilate to Tiberius Caesar describing the physical appearance of Jesus. Copies are in the Congressional Library in Washington, D.C.

TO TIBERIUS CAESAR:

A young man appeared in Galilee preaching with humble unction, a new law in the Name of the God that had sent Him. At first I was apprehensive that His design was to stir up the people against the Romans, but my fears were soon dispelled. Jesus of Nazareth spoke rather as a friend of the Romans than of the Jews. One day I observed in the midst of a group of people a young man who was leaning against a tree, calmly addressing the multitude. I was told it was Jesus. This I could easily have suspected so great was the difference between Him and those who were listening to Him. His golden colored hair and beard gave to his appearance a celestial aspect. He appeared to be about 30 years of age. Never have I seen a sweeter or more serene countenance. What a contrast between Him and His bearers with their black beards and tawny complexions! Unwilling to interrupt Him by my presence, I continued my walk but signified to my secretary to join the group and listen. Later, my secretary reported that never had he seen in the works of all the philosophers anything that compared to the teachings of Jesus. He told me that Jesus was neither seditious nor rebellious, so we extended to Him our protection. He was at liberty to act, to speak, to assemble and to address the people. This unlimited freedom provoked the Jews -- not the poor but the rich and powerful.

Another description of Jesus is found in "The Archko Volume" which contains official court documents from the days of Jesus. This information substantiates that He came from racial lines which had blue eyes and golden hair. In a chapter entitled "Gamaliel's Interview" it states concerning Jesus (Yeshua) appearance:

"I asked him to describe this person to me, so that I might know him if I should meet him. He said: 'If you ever meet him [Yeshua] you will know him. While he is nothing but a man, there is something about him that distinguishes him from every other man. He is the picture of his mother, only he has not her smooth, round face. His hair is a little more golden than hers, though it is as much from sunburn as anything else. He is tall, and his shoulders are a little drooped; his visage is thin and of a swarthy complexion, though this is from exposure. His eyes are large and a soft blue, and rather dull and heavy....' This Jew [Nazarite] is convinced that he is the Messiah of the world. ...this was the same person that was born of the virgin in Bethlehem some twenty-six years before..."

The following was taken from a manuscript in the possession of Lord Kelly, and in his library, and was copied from an original letter of Publius Lentullus at Rome. It being the usual custom of Roman Governors to advertise the Senate and people of such material things as happened in their provinces in the days of Tiberius Caesar, Publius Lentullus, President of Judea, wrote the following epistle to the Senate concerning the Nazarene called Jesus.

"There appeared in these our days a man, of the Jewish Nation, of great virtue, named Yeshua [Jesus], who is yet living among us, and of the Gentiles is accepted for a Prophet of truth, but His own disciples call Him the Son of God- He raiseth the dead and cureth all manner of diseases. A man of stature somewhat tall, and comely, with very reverent countenance, such as the beholders may both love and fear, his hair of (the colour of) the chestnut, full ripe, plain to His ears, whence downwards it is more orient and curling and wavering about His shoulders. In the midst of His head is a seam or partition in His hair, after the manner of the Nazarenes. His forehead plain and very delicate; His face without spot or wrinkle, beautified with a lovely red; His nose and mouth so formed as nothing can be reprehended; His beard thickish, in colour like His hair, not very long, but forked; His look innocent and mature; His eyes grey, clear, and quick- In reproving hypocrisy He is terrible; in admonishing, courteous and fair spoken; pleasant in conversation, mixed with gravity. It cannot be remembered that any have seen Him Laugh, but many have seen Him Weep. In proportion of body, most excellent; His hands and arms delicate to behold. In speaking, very temperate, modest, and wise. A man, for His singular beauty, surpassing the children of men"

Take a look at this user. They made a statue with new 3d printing techniques based on the shroud of Turin; notice how similar it looks to that picture. The high cheekbones, the elongated chin, etc.

youtube.com/watch?v=w4RBXVs70_g

You can give atheists fact after fact, but they'll never accept it, for their ego's wont let them.

Please source this claim. That doesn't even look like something that would have been made in Tiberius' time.

Unless you mean that is a later illustration of Tiberius' depiction of Jesus, which I think is still wrong because it doesn't quite capture his golden hair and beard.

Interesting, I always thought that based on the features on the shroud of turin there is no chance that he was a generic modern middle eastern man

Don’t forget Tacitus
“But neither human resourcefulness nor the emperor’s largesse nor appeasement of the gods could stop belief in the nasty rumour that an order had been given for the fire. To dispel the gossip Nero therefore found culprits on whom he inflicted the most exotic punishments. These were people hated for their shameful offences* whom the common people called Christians.* The man who gave them their name, Christus, had been executed during the rule of Tiberius by the procurator Pontius Pilatus.* The pernicious superstition had been temporarily suppressed, but it was starting to break out again, not just in Judaea, the starting point of that curse, but in Rome, as well, where all that is abominable and shameful in the world flows together”

>Unless you mean that is a later illustration of Tiberius' depiction of Jesus
yes, this is correct.

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That’s the biggest copout logic of them all. Oh, and that inoculation to “why evil” has been stewing for millennia.

Life is a test to see if you are a worthy soul to join his kingdom of heaven.

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Think of it like this: is it more loving to allow your child to do mistakes, or do force them to do good? If God loves us unconditionally, it means that he gives us the freedom to choose between him and something else. That's what unconditionality essentially means.

His fundamental premises are flawed.

Fucking suck my dick you gnostic trash

This is just a totally shitty version of egg theory.

kek my thoughts exactly

You’re absolutely deluded. I hope age will fix your addled mind.

You feel secure with your beliefs and the innoculations you’ve been taught against the hard questions. However, one day you will lose faith. The self-assurety of youth will give way to realizing that you truly don’t know much yourself. You’ll realize you’ve just been regurgitating memes developed over the centuries to give people comfort. You’ll realize your place in the universe as a spec of life with no true meaning. You’ll then need to decide to accept it and live or die because you won’t be able to ignore it.

God gives children terminal cancer to test them.

>letter from Pontius Pilate to Tiberius Caesar
It's fake, dude.

"The Library of Congress has received a number of inquiries over the years about a purported letter from Pontius Pilate to Tiberius Caesar concerning Jesus Christ. The Library does not have such a letter in its collections".

False. Josephus was the only historian who actually mentioned Jesus. The mention was only a few short words. There’s definitely no portrait, for ducks sake.

Epicurians were a bunch of degenerates that were looking for a philosophical reason to live in indulgence. In short, OP is a faggot.

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(((scientists)))

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>indulgence

i doubt whether the indulgence of spending an uneventful evening with friends in a garden drinking a little bit of wine and sharing a head of goat's cheese, amounts to what we deem today as hedonism.

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Except you forgot the bit about how he wills every act thought and intention

This is the place everyone naturally ends up by the time they turn 15. Spoiler alert: it's but the first step, not the end point.

This is the sort of bullshit that kept me away from God so long. Old-age snake old, sold by new-age bullshitters.

God has created a Human family, and wants to live amongst us as a Human. Yes, we are gods in a certain sense, for we are created in his moral and mental image. Yes, we are sons of God. But our destiny lies here on earth, with God himself - the creator of the universe, who created us because he was lonely.

Don't fall for that masonic, theosofist, gnostic, dualist, nephilimic lie... it's the EXACT same lie that was told to Adam and Eve; eat of the fruit and ye shall be like gods. Well guess what... that fruit of "knowledge"... that "knowledge", were the "mystery teachings".

We're not ment to be some kind of disembodied spirit, floating around in some other realm larping as gods. We're human beings; beings playing the human role and our role is here, on earth. We're gods human family and God will live with us here, on earth.

The Kingdom is here. Now.

youtube.com/watch?v=LMGVFW9lFzU

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>who is tacitus

>The Library of Congress has received a number of inquiries over the years about a purported letter from Pontius Pilate to Tiberius Caesar concerning Jesus Christ. The Library does not have such a letter in its collections
Source?

Stop

You're full of shit

kek can we get a fashwave pic with this quote

>God as a benign, conscious entity with all encompasing power
Fools! "God" is merely the starting conditions of the universe! We are indeed beholden to His divine will, because we are locked in the deterministic hell He created for us. He's real, but He's not around anymore.

>Freewill. Humans have freewill and God honors that;
Don't make me laugh, we're dominoes trapped in a cosmic joke.

Bible never says we have freewill. It says the exact opposite. But it did say that god himself is the creator of evil.

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If parents are real then why do they spank us when we act like retards and spoiled brats?

>It says the exact opposite.
No it doesn't. Moreover, free will is a metaphysically meaningless, inane concept devoid of substance.

Why do you think some angels rebelled when God told them His plans? Why did they refuse to bow before mankind? Why do you think they left the heavenly realm and created human hybrids? Why did they took the daughters of men for themselves?

It bothers me a great deal that the modern clergy stopped teaching the flock about the unseen realm in the bible, for it forms the context of nearly everything that happens. I strongly suspect the church has been taken over by anti-popes who are clearing the way for some form of gnosticism to take its place as a new universal doctrine, fit for their precious New World Order... which is just another attempt to give Babel another go.

Dammit, they're not even hiding it.

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All of you are frauds.

The reason Judas had to go up to the Christ and kiss Him was to point him out. He didn't stand out from the others based on all of these nice features.

God and the Devil are both real. You’re just fixated on bad things happening.

We dont know how the Tower of Babel looked and it mostly an allegory and not a real building.

>God is all knowing
Basically knowing what we were going to do and how we were going to live before he created us
>God is all powerful and everything is part of his divine plan
So, then my life is planned, especially if he made me the way I am, and knows what I will do before I do it---->Thus we do not have free will
>God is loving
Dead babies, cancer ridden children, mothers and old men and women killed senselessly in wars
>God has a divine plan and is in total control and knows everything, what will happen before it happens
>God knows all, is all powerful, is omnipotent, omnipresent, pure energy and love
Then god being all knowing, truly is disconnected from us (his creation). Humans doubt, humans struggle with wondering if there is even a god, humans don't know many things. How can god be all knowing, but at the same time KNOW what it's like to not know if there is a god? Has god ever doubted like we have? Has god ever sat staring over the ocean and asked himself "i wonder if God exists "? No. He never has, and never will. God will never understand what it's truly like to be human, with no powers, no knowledge of heaven, the future or the mysteries of the universe.

>Why do you think some angels rebelled when God told them His plans?
I have thought about this quite a bit. To me, there is no way to avoid concluding that humans were originally meant to become something grander than the angels themselves, perhaps even god-like beings. A human soul is a god-seed that through evolution and reincarnation becomes mightier and mightier, eventually surpassing the need to incarnate. Lucifer was originally tasked with overseeing this process. After he learned God's true plan, he felt the need to rebel against it, for its completion would have meant that Lucifer was no longer the third mightiest creation in all existence, but that soon there would be millions upon millions of beings more powerful than him. It's interesting that after defeating Lucifer, God did not relieve Lucifer from his duty as the overseer of Earth, hence why Satan is said to be the ruler of this world. God respects the free will of his creations so much that he lets Lucifer to abuse his position as he wills.

>So, then my life is planned, especially if he made me the way I am, and knows what I will do before I do it---->Thus we do not have free will
That's a non-sequitur. God knowing every path you could take and which one you end up taking doesn't take away from your freedom to choose. God exists outside time. The past does not just define the future, the future also defines the past.

>If it's bad for me, it must be bad for god

Because God gave us free will

"Have sex." - Socrates

Stop your self-deception. It doesn't matter how it really looked. What matters is that the current European elites are inspired by it and took it upon themselves to build a tower inspired by the babel story. This signifies that a certain ideology prevails amongst them.

Something that's only confirmed by other forms of symbolism surrounding that building. They literally refered to it with this flyer, in celebration of the opening.

Also notice the heads of the infants are round, while the heads of the adults are shaped as a cube. This is masonic symbolism, meaning the squaring of the rought stone, or the refinement of the intellect - which they see as a divine spark of the infinite.

Do not kid yourself, you are witnessing the resurgence of ancient ideology, masquerading itself as modernism. Every single human quality and emergent factor, such as nations, cultures, genders, etc, they will break down... for in their eyes it traps the human in this gnostic "prison" called earth.

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>>If it's bad for me, it must be bad for god

It's this guy again. From the recently-archived thread. Ignore this troll.

>Stop your self-deception. It doesn't matter how it really looked. What matters is that the current European elites are inspired by it and took it upon themselves to build a tower inspired by the babel story. This signifies that a certain ideology prevails amongst them.
How can they be inspired by something we dont know how it looks? Also the EU has nothing to do with the melting pot theory.
>Do not kid yourself, you are witnessing the resurgence of ancient ideology, masquerading itself as modernism. Every single human quality and emergent factor, such as nations, cultures, genders, etc, they will break down... for in their eyes it traps the human in this gnostic "prison" called earth.
Gnosticism was destroyed by the Catholic Church and the EU is interested in centralizing and creating a one continent wide country.

>God and the Devil are both real.
Indeed
God = starting conditions of the universe
The Devil = entropy

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It's this guy again, the one who gets sand in his vagina anytime you bring up a point that is more or less rhetorical, because it brings into question his faith and the ridiculous shit he believes.

Hey user, once again which religion is right? There are over 1000 user? Oh Christianity you say? Which 1 of the mote than 10,000 denominations is right you blithering moron?

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If God be real how come I can be bad and sheeet

So from what I've been lead to understand from reading a bit of Anselm and Aquinas, listening to preachers, and reading the odd tract:
>The god of Christians is Perfectly Just. It cannot abide imperfection and sin, and thus every slight must be judged and punished.
>It is also Perfectly Loving. For human life to meaningful, we must have free will, so It created degrees of separation between Itself and us to enable that, as the human Will is next to It what a light bulb is next to the Sun.
>These two natures are dissonant. To reconcile them, It created a proxy of itself that would be a Perfect Sacrifice to absolve humans of all their sins, should they accept it.
Three questions follow:
>From whence comes Original Sin?
Jesus' sacrifice as a divine proxy is of infinite value-- Even if someone was burdened with all of the sins of all of his ancestors, they have been paid full restitution when he repents and accepts Jesus' sacrifice; it should follow, logically, that his descendants should bear only the burden of their own sins.
>Why can man not be saved through works?
With Original Sin in play, a person's sins are functionally infinite, which means only the Perfect Sacrifice of Jesus can save them, but a son inheriting the sins of a father who repented by accepting it previously implies that Jesus was NOT a Perfect Sacrifice. Without it in play, they become much more managably finite-- at that point, why is it not possible for a man's virtue to outweigh his vice?
>From whence comes Damnation?
Even if sin (via Original Sin) is FUNCTIONALLY infinite, it's not LITERALLY infinite. If that's the case, how can eternal (infinite) punishment be justified? It might square with the Christian god being Perfectly Just, but not Perfectly Loving.

tfw
>You were created and God knew since before you came into existence that you would be bound for hell

Some God you got there.. But ya know

>Good shit happens
Oh wow, God is such a loving God
>Bad shit happens
It's Satan, or God works in mysterious ways

>"If Jebus con man y he steal donkey? Sheckel mate!"

If God real, good, able to do anything, able to know everything, commands everything, then why does evil exist? Unless you're telling me evil doesn't exist and it's simply an idea to explain the suffering from existence.

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Evil doesn't give free will it takes it away. How does your daughter have free will if a murderer kills her?

The truth is that everything is a contradiction here and your religion or philosophy always ends up being contradicted.

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I'm sorry brother... but this simply has no biblical basis. The rebellion in the heavens was a collective effort, which took them to earth, "down" into our material sphere of substance. The bible also clearly states that we are imagers of god, we are in his image; not some seed that grows mightier and mightier.

I invite you to watch these seminars of Dr. Micheal Heiser. It's all peer-reviewed, academically sound stuff.

youtube.com/watch?v=IZKy1Xt2Ow0

youtube.com/watch?v=M4pOF5oEHCE

youtube.com/watch?v=sSFOZfqFcx4

youtube.com/watch?v=2QBz3KsUp4U

Christians NEED to see this stuff so desperately. If we don't we fall victim to gnostic subversion.

They are inspired by its IDEOLOGY. The rest is mere symbolism that represents it. What is there not to understand?

my post
Who I am responding to
I am assuming you are saying that because I was referencing the christian framework which was relevant to the thread. I am not above failures in my though process I agree and I am always seeking to understand.

We are specs in the universe but we are a part of the mechanisms of nature here on the planet and the cosmic movements. We came from collated matter from a star and that perfect series of events came together to create our environment. God could be seen as an esoteric term that more matches what we say as just the universe. The universe is what gave us the ability to create our meaning. So in the sense we have the freedom to create meaning or just stick to baser instincts.

Please I am happy to discuss whatever I appreciate anyone's opinions it is enjoyable to talk.

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>Hey user, once again which religion is right? There are over 1000 user? Oh Christianity you say? Which 1 of the mote than 10,000 denominations is right you blithering moron?
They are almost all right, because they more or less serve the same God.

>I'm sorry brother... but this simply has no biblical basis
I know. I think Bible is true, but I don't think Bible is the whole truth.

cute

This.

Meet God at the pearly gates
>Hey you user, you lived fairly reasonable and just most of your life, actually far better than most of my Christian followers, buuuuuttt.. You didn't worship me or choose the right denomination out of the 10,000 I allow to exist on the earth and soooooo, yeah, I habe to send you to hell
To be
>Burned
>Tortured
>Ripped to pieces
>Suffer in agony
>Cry in pain and misery
>For all eternity

I am a loving God

Sending someone to suffer for all time under torturous conditions in pain and agony because they chose the wrong religion

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Evil and tragedy can be separated. Say all humans stopped sinning, goodbye evil. Yet tragedy still remains like illness, faulty genetics, accidents, natural disasters, etc. so even if you were to get rid of sin, tragedy would be a reality of life. Proving sin isn’t the source of ALL suffering

So, zoroastrianism or Judaism is perfectly comprable to say
>Islam
>Shintoism
>Hinduism
Which has over 500 gods??

All define a supreme creator God in the same terms.

That statement would mean that he is not all powerful. Why call him G*d then?

because humans are real...now go tuck yourself in lady...we get it...human life scares you...because you think you know what humans are capable of...

you don't even know....lady

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Hell isn't a place where you face burning that is a stupid fictional poem somebody made. Hell just means to be away from god. So your life is living away from god. Same with commiting sins like murder or whatever. You are just focused on the material and will remain that way. God isn't a human just sitting around. Those ideas were just a way of speaking back giving easy to understand attributes to something.Its the same thing when people were possessed it was the same as a mental disorder. Although without the wiser people less intelligent people take it literally. Does that make sense?

According to theologians, the Christian god can't create a universe with free will but not evil because logically contradictory things don't fall under the purview of It's omnipotence. It's the same reason why It can't create a stone that even It can't lift, or manufacture a square circle: It's also Perfectly Intelligent, and that would be retarded.

Say God or admit you are kike shill.

>All define a supreme creator God in the same terms.
And this creator is named Yahweh, correct?

kike

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You do realise that many christians don't even believe in hell being eternal torture by flames, right?

Yes, that's a pretty conclusive argument.

Specially for something useless as this topic.

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An omnipotent being would exist outside the boundaries of logic, which is a time-space construct. By trying to chase an infinite being into the corner with your finite mind, you are only pulling the rug out from your own feet.

Hell is whatever the church or the pastor says it is, can be flames one moment or like being in an isolation room like prison the next, it's just a threat at the end of the day.

If you'd like. A being of such caliber would be beyond any label. What you choose to call God is a petty game of semantics with no great significance

you can accept GOD in your heart...

or you can accept EVIL in your heart...

your call

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True, every religion has a main creator. A "God" that started it all so to say.

But, they are in no way shape or form identical or similar in anyway.

Hindus have 500+ gods, over a 1000 traditions, Muslims kill all the others, even other Muslims. Mormons believe an entirely different form of Christianity than say Jehovahs Witnesses. And Scientology, really, they're all the same user??

If God truly wanted good for us, and genuinely cared for us, then he would not allow so many perverse and contradictory religions to exist. By allowing it, he is essentially allowing his creations to suffer needlessly in hell, think of the logic of a teenager being killed in India, then warping to hell right away because he was born in the wrong country with the wrong religion at no fault of his own

You do realize it is written in the bible? People beliefs doesn't shape a religion

Why do you believe in the existence of evil if you're an atheist?

Easy, because he's not real. Religion like any other form of fiction is a way of coping with the fact that life is meaningless.

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