A lot of people here on Jow Forums are mad, critical and upset at "IT basedboys" who make more money than them, "them" being plumbers, welders, carpenters, farmers or whatever else have you. The "trades" you learn.
Why don't you realize that coding quite literally just another "trade" ? You don't need to be a genius here at all. Any moron could do coding. It's just a trade you have to learn, I say this as a "coder" myself. The modern day programmer, the backbone of stuff that brings you google, netflix and all the other IT services you use, are just glorified plumbers working 8 hours a day.
A programmer has his toolbox. Stock software he or she puts together into something useful. Setting up the same "standard" software over and over again. Learning this is not difficult and does NOT require you to be in any way smart. I say this because if I can do this shit and make bank, so can everyone else.
It's pretty simple, who employs coders vs who employs trades.
A plumber, welder, carpenter etc. can be employed by a far greater variety of markets: residential, business, industry, etc. Coders can only be employed in very select markets that need coders. A family will never ask a coder for work. They'll need a plumber or a carpenter though. An so would a business.
Jacob Lewis
>aka STEM You mean STEAM?
Jace Reed
lol
Lincoln Baker
I dunno where you live but you make easily 2x in trades as a coder here. I have a 4 year education to repair assembly robots and I'm more educated and easily earn more than soi bois. Tech jobs will never ever be considered trades because you don't contribute anything tangible and a disabled woman could do your job.
Daniel Miller
>Why don't you realize that coding quite literally just another "trade"
we do, Im thinking of going le code myself. What Im having problem with is the nihilistic culture of IT and often working in a Ponzie scheme industry surrounded by subhuman bugman (many areas of construction are actually based on Ponzies as well), Idk I just want to make good work and have a living income...
>Tech jobs will never ever be considered trades because you don't contribute anything tangible
this is why I think as well, they make money here, but it all seems like a worthless gov milking industry, nothing worthy actually
Could everybody stop confusing coding with software engineering thanks.
Nathan Smith
That's a good point.
What's the A for?
You create product, even if it's just electrons in a specific order. Speciailst jobs like the one you have aren't what I nor Jow Forums would consider a "trade". My point is really the same still; coding is just another skill or trade you can learn.
Best of luck to you. However dark the future is, there's always job security in computer maintenance.
Brandon Anderson
shut up nerd
Matthew Hernandez
>peciailst jobs like the one you have aren't what I nor Jow Forums would consider a "trade what the fuck are you talking about? I went to trade school and have a trade certificated in a registered traded called "millwright"
Dominic Cooper
I've been working as programmer for almost 12 years. I've never been without a job that pays really well. stay salty
Leo Clark
I'm a software engineer, literally what is the difference?
I mean practically for the great majority? Most'll end up in fuckng managing anyway while the eggheads drift towards I dunno, making something actually hard like a fucking database or something.
If they've dualspec'd into some other science like physics they'll go there.
Isaiah Evans
Coders are just the factory workers for the future.
Sounds fairly specialist to me, compared to e.g plumbing.
Luke Johnson
>Sounds fairly specialist to me ok well you're retarded. Millwright is a registered trade same as plumber. "it doesn't sound like it to me" is only an argument for how ignorant you are about trades
Logan Hall
I’m not trying to be salty or condescending, people take the easy way and then realize they’re just doing the same surface level shit for their whole lives and continue to saturate the truly useless and bubbled side of the industry
Oliver Sanchez
>database >for eggheads Jesus, I’m surrounded by idiots.
Andrew Watson
>Coders are just the factory workers for the future. factory workers isn't a trade fyi
Tyler Carter
See you know your trade. Doesn’t know shit
Alexander Richardson
JUST LOOK AT THIS BUGMAN SHIT NOT EVEN REAL 90S NERDS WITH A PASSION JUST CONSUMERIST POSEURS
>Best of luck to you. However dark the future is, there's always job security in computer maintenance.
Idk mang, I dont hate that skill of coding, but most people here that I know that got rich of it are straight up freaks, sort of the anti-dude people, totally obsessed with buying electronic gimmicks, its quite diystopian that whole (((start up))) culture
>I've been working as programmer for almost 12 years.
Masters of such trades are very respected and make a lot of money.I'd rather be a good plumber than some gay software idiot working in a liberal shithole. Idk what you're talking about.
Jayden Gomez
Not gonna claim I'm not ignorant about the trades here. I'm not going to say it's not a "registred trade", but this has context. The argument is simple, Jow Forums speaks of trades in terms of simple menial tasks that can be learned across a couple of years, or on the job. Plumbing, carpentry, and perhaps your occupations as well.
I posit that coding is no different from such "trades". Some trades earn more than others, sure.
It's definitely hard for the vast, vast majority of the people who are "coders".
Nolan Baker
You can be good at the software trade too.
There's quite the difference in level of skill, and I'd even call it , artistry and elegance in the work people make where i work.
Jackson Martinez
No it’s really not.
Isaiah Russell
well you're wrong is what everyone in this thread is trying to tell you. Posit as much as you like, you've already been definitionally incorrect in almost every post.
Nathaniel Johnson
>Masters of such trades are very respected and make a lot of money.
not exactly, youll get respect as a "majstor", but you wont get that rich, I know a lot of high skilled diy artists, its a nobel profession, but they are not rich...you can get bank if you own your own business but that rellies primarily on employing "majstors". Its a fullfiling work, but very phisically demanding with long hours often...
That's fine, perhaps it's my bad then. Perhaps I've been using the word "trade" wrong.
My point is, learning to code really isn't that hard and I think it's no more respectable than being e.g a plumber, carpenter or a "millwright".
Jow Forums should get into the good times as well.
Ryan Flores
I've never once witnessed SJW bullshit. I go to work, put on headphones, code, then go home. Occasionally I have a short meeting. I get paid 90k on a monthly basis. It's pretty great
Look, maybe I’m being harsh. You are correct in the sense that, like trades, they rely on experience, gained skill, and have very broad and easily confusae definitions, and don’t always rely as heavily on things like pure number crunching or scores or even investment returns (unless that’s what you’re program does)
Nathan Campbell
>I get paid 90k on a monthly basis.
that is crazy, is that work in california? what do you work on broadly speaking?
Oliver Brown
if trade was defined by "skill you learn" then literally every job on the planet would be a trade. I get the point you tried to make but its wrong. Trades provide the necessities for a population while your tech job provides luxuries.
Landon Ortiz
The hate for tech "basedboys" is simple jealousy. While those "basedboys" were studying comp sci, Jow Forums friends were playing video games and blaming their problems on jews and women. Of course they're going to be resentful.
Liam Thompson
Yes, programming is a valid career. However, I feel like it's a very soul destroying one. With trades all your work is in the real world, doing physical labour and interacting with people. You're very connected with what it is to be human and are doing similar labour to your ancestors. With programming you're constantly immersed in a virtual world trying to get your head around yet another library or abstraction that some basedboys came up with last month. If you're a plumber, a pipe is just a pipe and will always be a pipe. You're never going to turn up to a job and have your client tell you that they want you to install a cloud hosted containerised responsive central heating system using pipe.js and tempr.js using an agile development approach. >t. programmer
Julian King
>your tech job provides luxuries
Im thinking the same, 90% of that onion industry is about gimmicky apps and bs
>The hate for tech "basedboys" is simple jealousy.
incorrect. You cant ignore the nihilism of (((techy))) product today, does it provide value to society? Most of them seem like lawyers and cancer doctors participating in a lucrative Ponzie.
I've seen your threads before. Sour grapes are sour. Did your visa get denied?
Jaxon Harris
>With programming you're constantly immersed in a virtual world trying to get your head around yet another library or abstraction that some basedboys came up with last month.
THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH ABSTRACT WORK.
Mine and pols problem with (((techies))) is the degenerate product 90% of (((techies))) create. Most of developfags dont create any real value at all - which doesnt mean coding skill itself is worthless.
>I've seen your threads before. Sour grapes are sour. Did your visa get denied?
wassup my nigga! I dont have a visa dude.
>Sour grapes are sour.
one might argue that you as a onion tech boi are jealous of chad tradies, but I wont go arguing the retard olympics way.
Jayden Sullivan
Coding is great, but I gotta say, the electrical trade has been VERY good to me. I say...why not do both? Learn to code, learn computers, etc. BUT do get your hands in the game too. Learn a physical skill that you can use if coding becomes stagnant. The trades are good for men. It makes them physically strong.
>incorrect Sure, you're not a jealous or envious person at all. Your hatred of technology workers definitely comes from a place of abundance, no sour grapes here. You've only been posting about how much you hate tech for 6 months straight because everything in your life has been going well, I'm sure.
That's the thing though. Coding,programming is in 95% of positions NEVER about number crunching. It's just stacking tools together and adding customization on top.
Brandon Perez
This is all that programming is. As long as you have a good basis of understanding you can do almost anything
Kevin Morales
>wassup my nigga! I dont have a visa dude. Yeah, I know you don't. That's why you're butthurt. Doth protest too much. it's obvious you couldn't make it and that's why you seethe
Joshua Perry
STEM is a god damn meme. There are certain skills within STEM that are important for making a good salary (Programming, basic math like calc and linear algebra) but no one is hiring a bachelors in biology.
Luke Bell
you guys hiring? (asking for an american friend)
Connor Ramirez
the whole point of the American ladder is get to a spot in your life that you are not selling your time to live. be smarter than everyone else is how you get to the top and there is no limit to the success you could have.
construction trades generally have rougher around the edges workers. working with your hands and on a jobsite all day puts hair on your chest.
sitting at a desk and coding is a decent job, you are indoors and limiting the wear and tear on your body. women work around you and everyone generally smells great . also paid a lot more to code starting out than a tradesman starting out.
coders generally are less inclined to physically fight, tradesmen a lot of times will fight in a confrontation than back away .
it's all how you are raised and how you set yourself up for success in the world . be self aware , be smarter than what you are working with.
John Wood
I mean, this is my impression of yuppie techies>You cant ignore the nihilism of (((techy))) product today, does it provide value to society? Most of them seem like lawyers and cancer doctors participating in a lucrative Ponzie.
am I right on this? what do all these javascripters actually create? there are many
>You've only been posting about how much you hate tech for 6 months
that is because Im actually considering for going the coding meme, why are you so defensive bro? Im geninly dwelling on that decision for one since it seems like a nihilistic kike industry and two that it can give you a good pay...what do you think?
if one started today to learn angular and c++ how long would it take.
Jayden Jenkins
>angular
Easton Morris
Right. Despite all attempts by people on both sides of the issue to make it seem like it isn't; coding is a blue collar job and code monkeys are blue collar workers.
Evan Sullivan
The language is less important than the general concepts. If you were familiar already experienced and familiar with programming then probably not long.
Jackson Mitchell
>that is because Im actually considering for going the coding meme Thanks for confirming what i already knew hahahahahahaha
Alexander Hill
The culture around coding is what gets me. They all seem so weak and frail. The work also seems unrewarding considering you can't see what you're making and basically have no stock in it. The application process seems irritating too since there are coding interviews.
Dominic Smith
This is the words of a seasoned coder. It doesn't matter the language. After a time you just pick it up as long as you understand the concepts
Eli Wright
Does kinda seem like your jealous or been rejected by tech companies, just sayin
Camden Cook
It's not actually like that in the real world
David Thomas
I’ve met plenty of great software engineers and coders that are essentially body builders and bros and stuff. But the unrewarding nature is simply a requirement, if you don’t want that, there’s nothing wrong with that, it just means it’s not your calling.
Nathaniel Torres
>coding is a blue collar job and code monkeys are blue collar workers.
this is true, but they get payed WAY MORE that blues, they also get free:
AVOCADO TOAST. I mean AVO TOAST
DIGITAL NOMAD APP DEVVZZZ
that whole avo toast onion talk they use is so cringy, why do they virtue signall so much those fags
>Thanks for confirming what i already knew hahahahahahaha
I dont get it...anyway what brand of avo toast is your favorite? jokes aside, dont you think that there are some innate problems of that entire industry, smth dystopian about it?
>The culture around coding is what gets me. They all seem so weak and frail.
this as well, they also virtue signal all the time and act like numales
You most definitely can see what you're making, and even feel the difference it makes.
Caleb Price
You have problems homie
Joshua White
>Confirmed for UI dev
Andrew Campbell
Programmers/coders/softwareengineers are the only profession who are actively at war with their own job security. You will eventually write yourselves out of a job (and if you don't pajeet will, so you better do it first) by creating more and more automated systems to do the job for you.
Levi King
>You have problems homie
I have. Its related to this: 1. its great pay 2. Im not sure if its a bubble about to burst within a month 3. Im not sure does it even create a value for society or is it another overpayed job like lawyers
genuinly interested in your opinion on this
Jayden Taylor
There are 2 guaranteed jobs in the present 1) healthcare 2) technology
Until the day of post apocalypse these fields aren't going anywhere
Charles Gomez
>1) healthcare >2) technology
the 2 most corrupted industries as well. Do you know what parts of medicine are most lucrative? Cancer doctors and digestion doctors. Filled from top to bottom with scammers as do rates of cancer and digestive problems prove. Is technology the same? Does your industry provide value for society?
Nathaniel Myers
>you basically have no stock in it. Idk about that. Your average big tech drone (Google, Amazon) probably has a lot more equity in the companies they work for as opposed to some tradie drone. Why you think compensation in tech is so high? They get 150k in base salary and the rest in stock..
Plus it's way easier to start (from a capital persepctive) a business in tech.
Gavin Barnes
Techies have a weird conception of trades and money. Most of the time, the concept of a tradesman making low pay comes from their time as apprenticeship. Thing is, once you get to your journeyman/red seal/ticket etc. You start to make a lot more money. Start to specialise? Get even more money. Work industrial instead of residential? More money. Work in a plant? More money. Etc. Etc. A plumbers apprenticeship might have him making 25$/hour which is roughly gonna be 52k per year assuming 40 hour work week, but if he gets his journeyman done he's earning at least 70k per year. Once he's a master he's gonna get around 90k per year. If he works at an airport or hospital he gets 88k as a journeyman and over 100k as a master. Work at plant? Easily clearing 110k as a journeyman and upwards of 150k as a master. God forbid you work in oil&gas or nuke. If you're entrepreneurial you can run your own business and clear 250k+. But not everyone is. And this applies across trades. HVAC technicians in my city earn around 90k starting on top of benefits which usually add up to about 15$/hour. They can get much higher depending on if they want to work industrial or get hired at a place that stresses its HVAC system (think EA studios).
So essentially trades tends to earn much more than you would think. Often on par with engineers. They are just shit on due to the notion of educational attainment foisted on them by previous generations.
Angel Nelson
My particular field provides the hardware devices necessary to test network protocols. So if your Google, Facebook or the NSA and are creating, say, a new network optical switch, you need to know that your equipment is working properly for optical protocols. We provide a means to stimulate network traffic in order to test your new device to make sure it works properly and meets specification
Bentley Ortiz
Simulate not stimulate
Jace Campbell
>My particular field provides the hardware devices necessary to test network protocols. So if your Google, Facebook or the NSA and are creating, say, a new network optical switch, you need to know that your equipment is working properly for optical protocols.
youll probably acusse me that Im jealous or smth, but this seems like work without any value. Same way lawyers create more problems and jobs for other lawyers or doctors for other doctors, seems like techies do the same.
Christopher Howard
I love it how people that routinely get replaced by poos and are incapable of even changing a Edison screw lightbulb somehow think they are superior to actual skilled trades.
>pic related is my last 2 week pay cheque before I took 4 months off for holidays
>4,000 canadian So what is that in real dollars, like $500 USD?
Nolan Ward
Network protocols are essential to worldwide communication. Without a way to test cutting edge technology we'll really never advance. We provide a multi billion dollar product that's essential to communication corporations
Kayden Perry
Those fucking taxes user, damn. I get raped by taxes from working too much OT as well. To the point I work less OT just to give less money to my faggot government and entitlement programs.
Angel Brooks
My friends and I all make above 100 canadian a year as tradesmen and I have no computer aptitude or desire to learn. Not everyone has the same capabilities. Unless you are at the lower end of the IQ curve you can find a niche doing something and make good money.
Christian Anderson
i- i mean my friend knows angular but not C++ C# though
where would he apply
Joshua Roberts
>>pic related is my last 2 week pay cheque before I took 4 months off for holidays
paycheck, as long as it allows for decent living is irrelecant, what is important is creating of value and providing good work to society. Enjoy your work user!
>multi billion dollar product that's essential to communication corporations
disgusting. you might as well get rich by selling dragon dildos or testosterone blockers.
He should look for job postings in central Florida. Maybe on one particular coast ;)
Josiah Rodriguez
"Value to society" is determined by the market. Anything else is poorfag cope. You are likely confusing "value to society" with "things I think society should value"
Matthew Morris
Taxes in Canada can get stupid. Easily more than 50% of your income.
Christian Richardson
>"Value to society" is determined by the market.
correct. its determined by the market, not by the price of service.
how worthy to society are cancer doctors, stock brockers or divorce lawyers compared to a blue collar worker?
I only know one successful coder and that's because he can network extremely well. Every other lazy basedboy that didn't know what they wanted to do with their life so they just chose "computers" is earning barely above minimum wage with a student debt. Meanwhile the drop outs that ended up in trades are buying houses if they weren't retarded or have stupidly expensive cars if they were
Camden Martinez
>look for postings >multiple in the area >they all look good >probably pay more than anything here
why do i live in canada
Aiden Smith
I can attest to this. I just happen to be successful. I have a paid off Lexus on a 15 year mortgage. My wife is gorgeous and very maternal. My 15 year old son is doing great in school and a football stud. I really don't deserve my life considering how much shit I got in to early on. im 36
Jaxson Cook
Markets are price discovery mechanisms.
Clearly if someone makes $1,000,000 per year selling dragon dildos, society (or some segment of it) must find value in that.
Adrian Wright
>Any moron could do coding. stop reading right there, moron!
>Clearly if someone makes $1,000,000 per year selling dragon dildos, society (or some segment of it) must find value in that.
circular reasoning.
Chase Jones
>every tradesperson on Jow Forums makes 250k as an underwater welder >meanwhile bureau of labor statistics says average yearly wage of welders, electricians, etc is 40k-70k with standard deviations of < 10k Totally believable, nobody aspirationally LARPING here
Sebastian Jackson
All of these threads are retarded, they basically amount to
>I'm an accountant I make 80,000 dollars working 80 hours a week! >I'm a plumber I make 90,000 dollars working 90 hours a week! >I'm a STEMfag I make 100,000 dollars working 50 hours a week BUT I have to live in California/NYC/some other awful leftist shithole to do it
Like it's great you're making money or whatever but it seems like it genuinely makes more sense to take a lower-paying job where you have free time to play vidya, work out and bang chicks. Unless your plan is to build your own company and be a millionaire by 40 I don't see the point in being an overworked wageslave.
Aiden Johnson
Im doing it at 90k with plenty of free time. I've opted to stack XLM instead of paying in to my 401k. I'll be sitting on a yacht in 10 years
Adam Gonzalez
Ultimately we're at war with everyone's job security, not just our own. At the moment it's easier to automate things in the digital domain, but in the near future we'll start replacing everyone with robots.
Sebastian Rivera
I'm a total hack with a degree in CS. I don't considering myself a software 'developer' or 'engineer'. They have skills and expertise that I don't. I pivoted elsewhere because I didn't want to be a code monkey.
Caleb Mitchell
I've heard yachts are basically a moneysink and not worth it, besides the fact you'd have to learn how to sail it. Consider an expensive sports car instead.
Bentley Turner
Are you afraid of failure? I know from experience that a CS degree is pretty much a meme. They don't actually teach you real world skills
Luke Cox
Nigga if you own a yacht that's the least of worries
Dylan Peterson
or lets put it this way, if you were to build your own civilisation, lets say early USA, who would you choose:
1) 100 tradies 2) 1/10 of tradies number in lawyers/cancer doctors/stock brockers/developers
everyone knows that 2) are faux yuppie jobs that are parasiting on other work in most cases, so price isnt a good measure of value of those jobs.
>>meanwhile bureau of labor statistics says average yearly wage of welders, electricians, etc is 40k-70k with standard deviations of < 10k
this is correct, tradies dont make much, but they still provide more value to society than onion techies.
>I'll be sitting on a yacht in 10 years
every lawyers/stock brockers pipe dream. what have you actually provided to society in all those years other than selling billions of dragon dildos, what is your lifes work as a man?
