Why do nice guys finish last?

Badboys and borderline sociopaths are the most successful type of men when it comes to dating.
They have the qualities of the dark triad personality type which are attractive to the female brain, whereas kind, reliable, decent men are found to be boring and unappealing.
The good guy never gets the girl, and in the rare event that he does, he usually gets cucked by someone darker than him.

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Bruh they really don't. If this isn't a troll, stop being your idea of a nice guy, and just be a good person. Just go out, be interesting, and don't be a creep. Meet people at social events. Not every woman is into the badboy sociopath. Stop living in your delusional world man.

They're the most successful in everything. Society has prisoners dilemma.
If we all cooperated we would all benefit from it.
Instead most of us cooperate, and the ones who don't get a huge reward. However since we hammer ethics onto our children most people are still suckers who get exploited by immoral people.

Nice guys don't finish last. Guys who don't actively peruse women finish last. Then when they don't peruse women and subsequently get no women they blame it on being a nice guy which they probably weren't even one to begin with.

>Badboys and borderline sociopaths are the most successful type of men when it comes to dating.
>Nice guys don't finish last. Guys who don't actively peruse women finish last
Also true.

I've asked out 2 women in my entire life and despite being nearly 30 I've never even hugged a woman romantically. If you want to get a gf you have to throw away you dignity, get on your knees and start pursuing them like a horny dog.

I'm kind, courteous, I treat people how I want to be treated. I don't play mind games or manipulate people's feelings. I don't claim to be Gandhi but I'm far from a bad person. Turns out that means jack shit. If you want to get ahead in life (with women or business) you need to be a ruthless sociopath.

Why are you such a fucking moron. Tons of dudes reading this thread are nice and have girlfriends and wives idiot

There's no need to be rude, sir. I am just telling you my situation as I see it. I've known plenty of good blokes who strike out with women to the point they might as well be invisible, and I've seen plenty of douchebags who are never without a gf.

>I treat people how I want to be treated
This is your problem. People want to be treated differently, and obviously you can't read their minds, and since they know every person has their own way of treating people, they don't expect to get what they want from others. They expect you to be someone to deal with, not someone who tries to impress them. The only way people have some kind of aparent respect for you is if you show yourself like a true individual, a person with imperfections and things they have to adapt to, so they have their quota of trying to be nice to you. If they realize you are just being nice because you're nice to everybody else, they will easily abuse that, won't have any need to impress you and will probably increase their ego with some other individual, someone who actually gives them the opportunity to make them feel they're being accepted by a higher standard.

I'm not talking about being nice for the sake of being nice, I'm talking about common decency. If I like someone, I treat them with respect, I take an interest in them, I try to get to know them, I don't treat them like shit or try to manipulate them. That's what badboys do, willingly or otherwise, and for some reason that's the key to success with women.

>kind, reliable, decent men are found to be boring and unappealing
No. Boring and unappealing men are found boring and unappealing.
If you can make a girl excited, you're halfway there. If you just manage to not offend her, you're as good as a brother or a lamp.

Why worry about it? Girls don't feel any empathy towards men also, at least that's what helps me to lie to them and manipulate them to get what I want.

Or how about "I like this guy, he has a good sense of humor, similar interests, and he's not a douche"
Naaaah, she'd much rather fuck some meathead who's "broken and misunderstood"

>That's what badboys do
See? That's your opinion, not a fact. The fact is, most people actually do deceive or manipulate and expect you to do that to a certain degree. Their motivations may be different, but the act of putting a mask on is there. In a world where people is faking unwillingly at least 8 hs a day, it makes perfect sense that those who claim they're "bad people", while complaining they can't get what they they want are seen as dorks. There's no key to success. Just look good, act like someone who is better than others, and there you go. You don't need to figure out nicknames for those who get pussy, a certain grade of sociopathy is pretty much expected by everyone. Don't be a weakling, shit on everybody if you need to. Be yourself, not another gear in this machine. Don't try to fit, everyone else fits, be the broken gear. Some will claim you're broken, but others will realize it's the only gear they're paying attention to.

Women aren't going to have children with nice guys, as they provide the lowest chance of them and their children surviving when confronted with outside threats.

You do know a lot of badboys aren't actually tough, right? It's all bravado. And most of them make shitty providers, hence all the single moms who got burnt. Your logic is faulty

Every time you use "badboys" you look dorkier

That kind of hyper-individualism sounds exasperating and usually ends up with you looking like a tryhard.

Tryhards get more pussy than dorks

Whatever. Everyone knows what I mean when I use that term, so I don't care what it implies about me.

>she'd much rather fuck some meathead who's "broken and misunderstood"
than someone boring? yeah.

Nice guys don't finish last, boring ones do.

Reminder that OP is a mentally ill autist who posts this every day. Do not give him attention or validation. He is an angry psychopathic asshole.

Someone who's funny and has similar interests is "boring" unless he's a douchebag

You're in incel, you know approximately FUCKING NOTHING about relationships, so just shut your fucking mouth and don't even think about things you can't even conceive.

>Prove it

The reading comprehension on this site is a joke. Not once in their post did they tell you to prove them wrong.

Also this response is laughable because youre literally replying in the same way you are oversimplifying and mocking that person's reply lol

One thing I can say, as someone who really prefers the "nice guys", but is single because they all have a striking flaw:

Bad guys are proactive. They don't wait around and expect the girl to set guidelines. The rest of their ""qualities"" make them entirely unpleasant to be around, but for girls who doesn't want to be single forever, you either settle for a nice guy, or you let a "bad guy" do what you want the guy to do in the first place.

So here's a hint: you can be nice, courteous and respectful, and still be proactive in taking what you want. If a girl wants you, don't be a faggot about it. If you are, she'll look elsewhere, and that's entirely on you.

Yes, in frustrated, because fuck bad guys, I would never bother with those assholes, but dear god how I wish "Nice guys" grew a spine and acted like a man with a sex drive sometimes. Nothing makes me more dry than a guy acting like sex is something he will only do, if I specifically tell him I want it. That makes it seem like an obligation, and then I stop caring. It's fine to require it the first time, that's protecting yourself, but if you act like this after we already had sex, then you are a massive waste of time.

It preempted it. It's the same old predictable pattern. No one actually tries to reason with OP, they just post memes and insults

Shut up, nerd.

>WhY dO gOoD gIrLs LiKe BaD gUyS!
Go to reddit and never come back

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>Bad guys are proactive. They don't wait around and expect the girl to set guidelines. The rest of their ""qualities"" make them entirely unpleasant to be around, but for girls who doesn't want to be single forever, you either settle for a nice guy, or you let a "bad guy" do what you want the guy to do in the first place.
This isn't what happens. There's proactive good guys out there but they don't get a look in because they're not arrogant sociopaths. Women are full of shit. They bitch and whine about the lack of eligible men out there but they're only attracted to men who AREN'T boyfriend material.

See? I was right

>t. Faggot who is too spineless to be proactive

My problem is the fact that the social circles I'm in only have assholes, or guys who prefer to love in fantasies about what they *would* do, without ever actually doing it, and then complain that they never get what they want.

I'm aware of why I am single, and I'm working on getting into other hobbies that let me meet good people. You refuse to accept what your problem is, and just complain on Jow Forums about it.

>You refuse to accept what your problem is, and just complain on Jow Forums about it.
That's quite an assumption. You actually know very little about me and what I've done to find a partner.

I know you are complaining here, and refusing to accept your problem. Which is exactly what I said, and what you quoted. What you've done to find a partner is not related to that.

What is my problem, then?

>Someone who's funny and has similar interests is "boring" unless he's a douchebag
He's boring if he's boring.
Liking an author and having a range of knock knock jokes isn't goig to cut it for anyone but your mum.

Stop trying to be a victim so hard.
Sometimes you're just not as cool as you think you are.

beside what does the society do for women ? they give them everything without having them asking for anything, making them being not worth to go for someone that would struggle in society.

if it's too hard to get a women that is not even worth it, then save yourself the trouble.

only go for women when they go for you, or if not just fucking don't bother.

I’m not really a “nice guy” nor a “meathead” and fall nicely into the “creepy incel” category, but assuming I didn’t, what are some signs a female is interested in a male?

nice guys aren't good guys. a good guy helps people, works hard and is upfront with everyone. Nice guys are afraid of hurting people. a good guy will let you know what he's doing and why. a nice guy can be trusted as much as a yes man. A good guy maintains his reputation and his credit. a nice guy does people favors. a good guy does a great job.

Your partner is someone you depend on, a doormat is someone you can walk all over. A man willing to get their's is more valuable than somebody who let's people skip. A nice guy is the personality equivelent to a slut, you don't have to do anything for him he's always nice.

Now one thing that might confuse people is when someone is whining about their partner. When someone is upset they think only of the bad and start spiraling out of control. When someone is content, they usually have better selfcontrol and don't start blabbing about all the good things. Especially not to lonely nice guys. Imagine the torture of hearing about all the wonderful things you aren't doing.

When you are known as a nice guy, usually that means there's nothing worth noting about you. When you are known as a good guy, people wanna know why.

it's your fault tho *honk honk*

Here's the thing OP. Women like you to be confident, proactive, and to see your desire for them. Many if not most are actually very weak to these three qualities and will cling to someone who shows them even if he abuses them. A sociopath with naturally low inhibition and total disregard for what other people think of him except to the degree that he can use them can thus dominate them utterly.
You don't have to be a sociopath. You just need to learn how to be confident and forward. It's not easy, and you'll have to figure out exactly what that means in terms of adapting the rest of your personality to those traits. Jordan Peterson's unironically a good place to start, the lectures and the 12 Rules book. Mark Manson's Attract Women Through Honesty is also good and more to the point for dating women.

And of course How to Win Friends and Influence People. You're probably more of a passive person than a good person and this book describes how to be more actively good.

Thank you

Unnecessary looks

Alright. I’ve heard that one before. I’m just trying to salvage my self-image if at all possible. I’m 22 and don’t think any woman has ever expressed interest in me. One part of me knows it’s true but another part really hopes it isn’t.

True nice guys finish first.

The difference between a true nice guy and a fake, is the true one is being nice for nothing in return - it's just because its who he is as a person.

The nice guy you are talking about, is a person who does things for people in order to get something for himself. Whether it be sex, friendship, help etc you name it.

If you have had a job, I'm sure you will see several examples of why the nice guy is a dick in disguise. He's the one who only does things for you when he has a favour to ask of you, and not
Because of who he is as a person.

Also in regards of dating, it's a numbers game - so even if your personality is fine, you might have just been catching the wrong women at the wrong time or the right women at the wrong time.

Mr.Rogers says no.

You can also think of it as being authentic.

On a 1 to 10 scale, what would you say your looks score is?

If I were to characterise a nice guy who is authentic, I would say it is a guy who accepts himself for who he is and doesn't apologise for it, and also accepts others for who they are.

How many women have you asked out this year?

Do you ask them about you? It's uncommon to just say things you like because they are nearby.

> Oh that shirt is cool! Who are you talking to?

It’s really hard for me to judge as no one has ever complimented me (aside from parents, of course). I’m going to say 3 because I have long hair (well-kempt most days), a full beard, am slightly to moderately overweight, and don’t have any fashion sense. I think my facial structure is ok, and I have blue-grey eyes so those work in my favor I think

None, cause girls never show any interest in me

No. I’m just trying to see if females have ever expressed passive interest in me. And I’m not going to talk to every disinterested girl until one magically becomes attracted to me

Women and men communicate attraction differently.

It's something you learn over time.

Like anything, getting better with women is a skill. It takes time and many failures to understand what's

Make a small consistent effort to get better rather than expecting to master this skill when you just started.

Overall, have fun with it as well and enjoy the process.

Same. We aren’t going to make it, bro

You're a man, it's YOUR job to show interest. Complaining that you don't have a gf when you aren't doing the most basic thing to get one (asking women out) is beyond retarded.

Eh, no. I’m too far behind to take this seriously. If I had any footing already I’d consider it but I don’t. I’m just trying to see if there is any hope. Something I’ve done for a while now because I’m naively optimistic

You probably come out desperate and that's why girls avoid you

Give some pointers?
What should you look out for.
And please don't say "If she touches her hair and laughs at your stupid jokes, she likes you!"

You look like a man, like a manly guy. People expect you to act the part. If you don't want to that, shave, start dressing posh/preppy, and slim down. Also because you haven't stated it, I assume you don't wear cologne. Mint for dress shirts, charcoal, for plaid shirts, fruity smells for Hawaiian shirts, Musk for leather.

If she talks to you, looks at you, and generally seems interested in what you are doing.

But I am also talking about situations where you already have something going, and know you like each other. So many of these polite and nice guys will act like they are celibate, and that's a massive turn off. Seriously, if you want sex with me, let me know how much you want it. That's not rude, that's not impolite, not when we have already shown mutual interest in each other and know we both want more than friendship.

Even before that point, being forward and proactive is always much more attractive, if only because it gives the idea you can probably be forward and proactive in bed as well.

Should I just show interest towards every girl I meet until one accidentally doesn't rebuff me?
Who would go through such a hell?

If they won't show interest in you, perhaps they were just busy at the time?

Just ask them out, the worst they can do is say no, and then you say yourself the agony of wondering whether she is interested or not.

Well, you obviously have a self-steem issue, but you don't sound like a lost case. Just lose some weight, it would automatically make you feel more confident. Also, trim it so it looks you take care of it. Look at your body shape and figure out which kind of clothing helps you give you some shape. I'm a bit overweight, and thanks to my shoulders being larger than my belly, shirts that fit make me look better than most of the ones my size, which make me look like a square, to give you an example.

I’m not wearing perfume to appease women lol. I’m finale being ostracized as that’s how I grew up. I’m trying to learn if women express interest towards a man she is interested in. All I’ve got so far is
>unnecessary looks
Which I knew already. There’s also laughing at what you say, touching hair, and a few I can’t think of right now. And with full confidence I can say I’m ugly or unattractive because no girl has ever been attracted to me.

So you want to be the shirt... Well get pretty son, maybe head to the bar.

You've been reading the wiki how, haven't you?

>don’t think any woman has ever expressed interest in me
No girl has ever said hi to you randomly, bumped into you or asked for your name?

I meant to trim your beard*

I see. I’ll never get that far so it doesn’t really matter, but I can’t really understand how a guy would choose to not express sexual interest once a relationship was established, unless both parties have agreed to a “no sex until marriage” type arrangement.
Good luck

Everyone ever.

No. Not that I can remember, at least. And I think I’d remember

Oh, that sucks. :/
If it makes you feel better, I'm 19 and those things have happened to me, but I'm still a virgin despite that.

Again, as I mentioned elsewhere, I’m not looking to become attractive. I’m trying to see if *any* female has expressed interest in me as I am; as myself being myself. And this isn’t the case

>Being myself
That's not what you think it means, being attractive doesn't make you less "you". No matter what make up you put, it would still be you

I’m indifferent towards it. I’ve come to accept it and don’t blame females for having standards.

Not perfume, cologne. You brush your teeth and wipe your ass right? You also wash your long hair? This is called grooming, that what a groom does. Do you have a problem wearing a uniform to work or a costume to a party? This is about having more fun more often.

So I’m not being myself right now? Being myself, for me, involves a certain degree of moral integrity and becoming attractive just to have sex is an extreme degree of vanity that I’m not comfortable with

It's... Complicated for me to explain.

Body language is something I keep a close eye on these days.

Some things I just do by default though that I didnt use to do for a long time.

Smile more.
Give more (appropriate) eye contact (hell I flirt with my eyes all the time).

Also a lot of people will knock me for this one - becoming more emotionally aware. This as far as I am concerned is priority number one. That and make the majority of your conversation about the other person and not yourself.

This is commonly known as empathy.

Connect to other people is much easier if you start being more empathetic, and 9nce you have built the 8nitial emotional connection, you have an easier time moving to a sexual connection (if you want to).

I lost my virginity at 25 and continued on to have a pretty normal sex life.
I had sex with 6 different girls just in that year alone.
Don't give up hope.

All of those are necessary either health or are simply necessary upkeep. Perfume is utterly unnecessary.


Cheaters win, but winning isn’t learning.
So I’d rather take long term success with women then short term flings that destroy the ability to get attached.
When I was a virgin at 19 I was crazy, I wanted sex so bad it was pathetic.

Then I got laid and the only thing that changed was my confidence in myself.
I made lots of friends and the guys who got the most women, couldn’t hold down a job or girlfriend for more than a month or two. I realized that being alone sucked worse than dating random chicks online.

I got a lot of sex, but that’s all it was. So I found a less attractive girl and made an honest shot at being a boyfriend. It didn’t work out but I learned a lot about myself. Like dating down is a bad idea if you’re looking for someone who understands you.

Now I fly to Europe back and forth to visit my future wife, making art and trying to live my dream. You don’t have to be alone and you don’t have to settle for less, you just have to be worth someone’s time including your own.

I can’t tell you how many guys think they’re owed great lives for existing, it takes some kind of skill set to stand apart from the “npcs” around you.

You would know, so I guess thread over.
Protip: When people want something they don't stop trying, until they get it. I'm not telling you to do this, but that is how you will know. They will make you know.

This has nothing to do with morals or vanity, man... You see a hobo and think "oh, that guy is really true to himself, his odor is certainly his!"? No. You recognize the man has a problem. Your image is not about having sex, it's a lot more than that. Sex is just a consequence. Vanity would be the extreme. Right now, in your own words, you're below average.

You don’t have to get a face lift but do some up keeping, give her something nice to look at. If she’s attractive she’ll want someone near her level. The funnier you are the less fancy you have to be.

Nah bro I haven't brushed my teeth in a decade, and most of my life sparingly. I know people who don't wipe their ass neither. I've been in several relationships and am in one now. You are just getting pretty because your parents raised you to that point. My buddy didn't take showers for months. Never change user.

I'd just like to add, simply hygiene is something that many guys would do well to remember, girls In particular do notice this and judge you for it (I was guilty of some of these).

Cutting your nails
Showering daiy
Having a decent haircut.
Brushing your teeth twice daily.

These are things that everyone should do, but many guys forget to do, because they think that it doesn't matter and people won't care.

Wrong on both counts. Both women(especially women) and men will tend to think you are a shitty person if you don't do this.

Sure your probably a great person within, but their first impression of you is what they see of you, and that will impact how they interact with you in the future.

The smell of a hobo is certainly his. Who else’s would it be? My image is about me being me
I’m here to see if women have been interested in me as I am/was. They were not an I’m not looking to become attractive
Yeah, I don’t take showers everyday (usually two to three times a week) but clean my ass and brush my teeth. My teeth mainly because I’ve had cavities in the past and really don’t want teeth problems.
But yeah, I’m certainly not going to start wearing scented water anytime soon

I would actually say scentless deodorant and a good (i.e. not cheap) fragrance.
Stuff like Axe body spray makes you smell like a locker room full of insecure 14 year olds.
I have even seen people use Axe cologne (pretty much just body spray in a glass bottle).
Don't do that.
Look up some scents and try them out, try to find one that fits you well and make it your signature.
If you get compliments on it, you know you have done good.
Will help you not only with women but everyone, trust.
Everybody likes to smell nice smells. If you smell nice, people will like you a bit more.
Again, deodorants don't smell nice.
A good starting point might be Acqua di Gio, it's inexpensive, and chances are, you will smell like their dad lol.

If you insist on smelling like burnt trash and piss, then go for it.
I guess reeking is just "you".

'eau de Jow Forums'

Just remember:
Hobos don't stink, they are just being themselves.
So brave.
>claps in American

I don’t, but they don’t always either. They can bathe in the river and then whatever is left is their smell. Nice strawman btw

Daily reminder that hobos only have sex with other hobos, so you should just look for a bearded girl

But no hobos have ever shown interest in me!