Med school

thoughts on med school?
>spend 4 years taking a pre med course
>spend 4-6 years on your medical degree and residency
>late 20's, starting salary 55k usd a year w/o taxes, expenses, students loans, not a lot of benefits
>shitty work hours, tedious work
>constantly tired
>only rake in a lot of money when you're past your mid 30's - early 40's
why become a doctor when the work input to reward output ratio sucks? (even after making a substantial amount of money)
>inb4 dont take medicine for the money
the money kinda matters though, especially if you're going to exhaust yourself on a daily basis with bad hours and minimal sleep
sure it's a good challenge but why would anyone consider this as a good career?

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It’s a field where the hurdles are in place to keep out the weak and the riff raff.

You become a dr because of three reasons.
You want to help people and society
You want prestige and power and respect
You want money

My feeling is that you aren’t cut out for it.

i actually want all those things now that you mention it
was just asking because that guy looks miserable
but desu i love a challenge
thinking surgery, nephrology, or cardiology after i graduate from bs biology

It’s a tough job. Ultimately you’re the one in the room that has to keep it together when people are dying/ have died. People come to you in the worst shape.

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i'm passing my thesis in september.
Was it worth it ? I dunno. It was hard and i did things i'm not proud of, i saw horrible things in hospitals (mainly malpractice) and i'm kinda jaded.
In the end a lot of my colleagues seem kinda dead inside, you have to through so much shit that hardens you and then you're this doctor that's not able to tell your patient he's going to die with humanity.
That's why i did psychiatry in the end, i wanted to escape the stress of medschool and the craziness of it all. Well psychiatry has it's own problems but alas i encountered some great minds (patients and doctor) that make up for it.

Also a thing i wasn't prepared is the moral conflicts : when your boss i doing something stupid and it's a matter of life and death, the manner you'll react will be very telling of the doctor you'll become (a kiss-ass with a promise of a good career but maybe not that able or a loner clinically very able but without friends....)

will keep that in mind
just worried about mean professors or manipulative classmates

psychiatry sounds good too ngl
this seems like a fulfilling career mainly because of all the conflict

>just worried about mean professors or manipulative classmates

This is waayyyyy worse for a law student/lawyer.

Honestly tho user, don't do it unless you are one of those very hard working, very resiliant, and very competant and intelligent people. I am none of those things and went to law school and am a dud. Careers like law/med should only Be done by the best and brightest.

>>just worried about mean professors or manipulative classmates
>This is waayyyyy worse for a law student/lawyer.
yea ik can confirm my dad's a lawyer he talks about how most of his professors were huge pricks
the manipulative classmates part is still a problem for me in undergrad
had my classmates throw me under the bus for a video project in philosophy to extend the deadline for a week because "they didnt like how i edited the video"
even thought i followed the script to the dot, wasnt the cameraman (they complained about bad angles), and being 15 secs over the time allotted even though we're allowed to (av is a field a have a bit of experience in)
the version they compiled sucked ass btw. the prof only took their side because he's friends with the guy who complained, the professor also has anger problems, has had to try to have a relationship with a student, and is not the best in his field. i honestly dont understand why the university didnt let him go
honestly made me feel alone and hated and i blamed myself, but i passed his class anyway. still traumatises me that someone who i thought was cool was actually a massive dick and the feelings of self hate for not dealing with it optimally still get to me a year later

I went into med school on some altruistic whim. I wanted to do something that will feel useful and meaningful. I became less idealistic and more cynical about it over time, but still, I got hooked into medicine. I just can't picture myself doing something else, even if it meant more money, more free time and less stress. Maybe it's Stockholm syndrome, but this is simply what I want to do, the job feels like the reward itself. If it did something else, it would feel off. It's not a job for everyone and that's it.

Luckily, my Euro country has public-funded education so the state covers my medical education. No loans. Plus, we don't have the American legal tradition of suing doctors for malpractice all the time. And malpractice cases end up being handled by the physicians' professional organisation which often means that other doctors will be the ones who will judge whether you fucked up or not, and we're very Jewy about keeping each other's backs unless someone's inexcusable incompetence killed a patient.

>shitty work hours, tedious work
This can depend on the specialty, though. Plenty of them have somewhat comfy lives.

Not op I have a question related to this. Would it be reasonable to apply to med school with a BSN. I am going for nursing currently and eventually want to go to med school. As long as I take all necessary courses like O chem and Micro would it be ok, or should I just go the extra mile and get an additional degree that is more appropriate. Don’t mean to change the nature of this thread and I’ll eventually talk to an advisor but any insight from you guys would be appreciated. Thank you.

glad you found something you enjoy
honestly want to get in to medicine because it seems fun with what i said: bad work hours, "stress", etc

am op
depends on where you live, i recommend asking around
but what i can say is bs nursing is a common pre med course
i think you just have to qualify for med school
i know a guy who took physical therapy just in case he didnt like medicine and is working in his medical degree

ps asked my dad about law school and he said to prepare for the licensure exam when you start law school
to try and picture law school as the "review" for the actual licensure test
also having bad professors would teach you how to deal with annoying people
also try not to get kicked out of your law school
"try not to compete with but to work eith your classmates, youre all just trying to get through law school"
napping after reading helps you remember material better (can confirm this was told to us by our psychology professor [we covered neurotransmitters and that was a side note]
read "quickly" - quickly understand the material and not reading the same thing over and over again (READING QUICKLY IS DIFFERENT FROM SKIMMING; DONT SKIM)
stay healthy and keep your emotions in check

>inb4 dont take medicine for the money
you hit the nail on the head, OP. the money DOES matter, but don't go into medicine just because of the money, go into it because you actually have a passion for it. too many people without devotion have gone into the field just because they want a big paycheck, and they end up being shit doctors. if you want easy money, go into business or law

if youre really considering it still, get some firsthand experience by shadowing a doctor or something like that to really see what the job is like and if you want it, that's what i did. i just started med school about a week ago, and i made sure its what i wanted after getting my EMT license and getting hands on patient care experience, and working as a scribe in an ER pretty much sticking to the doctors like glue and typing up every patient encounter from start to finish. even then i took 2 years between graduation and now working non-patient care jobs while doing clinic volunteering, and sealed my choice to go when i realized how much more i wanted to be at the free clinic working with patients than in the actual job giving me a paycheck.

tl;dr: go into medicine only if you really have the passion for it, and do stuff to test that passion

you could, but most nurses i know that want to be practitioners go get a Nurse Practitioner degree instead. it'll complement the experience you got during your BSN and teach you to be a provider just like any other physician, and it's only ~2 years instead of 4. the NPs (and physician assistants) i know practice pretty much independently, and just have to have the attending physician review and sign off on their charts before discharging the patient

i come from a family of lawyers and decided to NOT go to law school after hearing my dad complain about how much he hated some of his professors. plus, i just like science more

>prepare for the licensure exam when you start law school
this. apparently the bar exam is like 3 full days of super intense writing. though you also have to do the same thing in med school prepping for the boards (both step 1 after two years, then step 2 before graduation)

>thinking surgery, nephrology, or cardiology after i graduate from bs biology

do you have a good understanding of how medical residencies after graduation work? depending on the field you go into you have to compete and apply for spots into certain programs thatll determine your specialty. e.g. surgery is its own residency that lasts 5 years, while nephrology and cardiology (among a bunch of others) require you to apply for a fellowship AFTER you finish a 2 year internal medicine residency

general surgery is somewhat competitive from what i understand; IM you wont have a problem getting a residency because the US currently has a terrible shortage of them (because everyone wants the competitive residencies that pay a lot so they dont go into IM). dont know about how competitive fellowships are, but some programs only take a handful of doctors into their program every year

Found out a few days ago my application for Med was unsuccessful, didn't even get an interview. Now I need to figure out a backup plan.


desu i dont
just thinking about what i'll do if i do go to med school and take a residency which could be in 7-10 years
just looking at my options, things could change in a decade

gl man
you could use your major as a fall back
you'll figure something out :)
there are plenty of hospital related jobs doctors work in a team of competent, well trained, well paid, staff
eg my cousin took "audiology" (MS degree)

this happened to me twice. did you only apply to US schools? MD or DO?

i'm doing my MD at st. george's university in grenada in the caribbean; i was skeptical at first of doing it because of the stigma around caribbean schools but many of them have gotten a much better reputation and are able to compete with US graduates for good residencies. you're probably not going to get the super competitive neurosurgery residency at johns hopkins, but if youre at this point chances were you probably werent going to get that anyway.

plus, if you do well enough on USMLE step 1 and a spot happens to open up at a US school because of attrition, theres a CHANCE you can transfer and graduate from a US school. SGU students do our clerkship years back in the US anyway, so its more or less the same experience, just at a different teaching hospital

yea, desu the sciences seem comfier with less manic people. sure logic is great and all but there is a lot of luck involved in law school, the bar, and work
law seems so suffocating tbqh

I'm Australian, though I appreciate the advice. Take care m8

plenty of people dont know what they want to specialize in when they start; thats why there are clerkship years for M3 and M4 so students can dip their feet in every practice and see what they like. its just something to consider if you were going for a super competitive one

plus, you can tailor research or experiences you do before/during school thatll make you stand out more in apps for a certain field. for example, i have a lot of experience in ERs and with underserved populations, and im doing an MD/MPH dual degree to compete for an emergency medicine residency (which isnt too competitive but im from LA so i want to try to get a spot in the area). i have a few capstone experiences i have to do for the MPH and im planning to do something ER related for that (maybe coordinate and improve on EMS systems in rural areas, but ive got a few years before i have to decide that stuff)

australian? try south east asia
toured manila and i saw a lot of non-natives in scrubs with school id's

emergency medicine is a residency? sounds pretty fucking awesome will consider
gl man sounds like some pretty cool stuff

>law seems so suffocating tbqh

>dad and grandpa worked in practice together, dad still runs practice
>would constantly come home and complain about how much he hated work,some other lawyers, annoying clients, etc.
>kept asking me if i wanted to go to law school and take over the practice one day
and then he was surprised when i said no. medicine has enough logic and critical thinking in it, but in the end you dont have to argue over petty things because you can point to the science.

youll still have to deal with big egos and shit in medicine though, and residency kills your social life. just have to consider if its what you really want in the end

thanks for the advice
gl with med school
mainly in to it because it seems like a field that'll challenge me
it seems like a really exciting and fulfilling field

dang, sorry the advice doesnt fully apply to you. grenada is in the british commonwealth and SGU graduates can do clerkships and eventually practice in the UK though; im not sure if that would make you eligible to practice in australia because its also a commonwealth country. youd just have to look into what australias licensing and reciprocity requirements are

yeah, its a 4 year residency i believe. and i really like it because you see pretty much everything in the ER (i saw everything from minor scrapes to chest pains that ended up being nothing to gunshot wounds), and when youre an attending its shift work, so once your shift is done, someone else comes and you go home. its not like surgery where you could get stuck in a procedure for 5 hours after your shift ends.
AAMC has a pretty comprehensive list of residencies and fellowships around the US so you can look at all of them and see what you might want (and not want) to do

>>kept asking me if i wanted to go to law school and take over the practice one day
LMAO iktf
>you can point to the science
>arguing about petty things
nothing as liberating as this

>residency kills your social life
i shut myself in so i dont get caught in other people's drama so this is fine

>if it's what you really want in the end
i just want a comfy challenging job that provides a service that will always be in demand (job security, job satisfaction)

thanks user, much appreciated. glad to be able to help someone out with my experiences. good luck with your own studies.

also, i mentioned here about NPs; another option is PA school, which is only 2 years and not as competitive. like NPs they work pretty much independently, just having their attending physician confirm all of the medical decision making they made and signing off on it. both NPs and PAs are extremely competent practitioners that are essential to the practice as a whole, but youll just never be the one "in charge" if thats important to you

>5 hours after your shift ends.
can confirm a biology lecturer i had mentioned he was an anaesthesiologist that just got out of a 10 hour surgery (this was an 8am class so he didnt sleep)
noted on that website btw
>saw everything
sounds fun tbqh

depends on your definition of "comfy" and what field you end up in

my friend from high schools dad was an ortho at UCLA, and there were a lot of times where we'd be hanging out at like 1am at his house and his dad would JUST get home. he'd sit down and tell us to not go into medicine, and go into business or something instead.

we're both in med school now.

oh well yea the comfy thing i meant is even though it's tough work, you still get to go home with that warm feeling knowing you did your best

>good luck with your own studies
desu getting home late and the challenge sounds like good fun
pretty nice that you guys are challenging yourselves gl man :)

am going to bed and closing this tab
gn guys

>sounds fun tbqh
it is. when i was doing my EMT rotations one of the very first things i got to do was CPR compressions on a cardiac arrest patient while we (sadly unsuccessfully) tried to revive him. also got to assist with bleeding control on some guy who got blasted from far away with a shotgun so he had small wounds all over the place.

but there's also quite a gamut of people using the ER as their primary care because they have no health insurance (despite what myths might go around, no, nobody is EVER turned away from the ER) and people and families who are super distressed and take if out on you and your staff, since their having one of the worst days of their lives at that point. so also something to consider

>that warm feeling knowing you did your best
i can definitely say i felt this whenever working with patients. even if im not bringing people back from the dead, knowing i made a difference in someones life is what keeps me devoted to this field

>hectic workspace
def sounds fun and challenging
>knowing i made a difference in someones life is what keeps me devoted to this field
too comfy


Never a WORSE time to become a doctor, user. My father did Anesthesia and fucking hated his job the last few years. Made a lot of money, but things are different now. It's not a coincidence his company is so short- staffed... nobody wants to become a doctor anymore cause it sucks. He told me to never become one even if I was interested. Why? Cost of education is fucking through the roof compared to other countries, and compared to back in the day. Even with that, chances are US doctors' salaries will plummet after the inevitable healthcare revolution. High cost of education + lower salary + lifetime of stress in both work and education sounds like quite the asspounding to me. Find a high paying job that will reward you.

acute psych emergencies are also something you have to deal with in an ER, and patients can (try) to get violent. but there's plenty of hospital security trained to deal with them, sometimes cops/sheriffs are there depending on the circumstances, and physical/chemical restraints when patients are agitated make things easier